Have a better world cup than Maradona's Mexico '86. Which he very well still might, if he scores a hat trick in the final and wins it, scoring an iconic solo goal or two in the process
Who has had the better international career? Messi or Ronaldo?
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Exactly my original point. Doesnt matter what messi does until he wins the WC with Argentina. Solo goal is just the cherry on the cake.
This has got nothing to do with 2x with Napoli. It's all about bringing home the world cup
To be ranked higher for Argentina. Its just a max 7 games competition. What about the other 983 games he's played or there about?
Messi is already ranked higher than Maradona. I do not know where this idea that Maradona is perceived better by the majority comes from. Can someone show a link? Pure nostalgia, nothing else..
It is only the WC where Maradona is regarded as the best player ever (along with Pele?), that's the only area. Even Maradona's ex teammates like Lineker, Ardiles, Valdano etc. think Messi is better.
This is what Valdano said in 2013:
“Messi is Maradona every day. He has played at the level of Maradona in 1986 for the past five years.”
And people from the new generation, there's no way they will choose Maradona over Messi unless they are a Ronaldo fan..
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He is already ranked higher than Maradona for most people.. You are projecting your own perceptions in terms of who is better and generalizing..
Maybe, Maradona should have tried to go beyond the 2nd round in European Cup twice with the Italian Champions Napoli to be more seriously involved in the conversation not to mention his failures at Barca..
As for Napoli thing, Messi single-handedly led his above average Barca to La Liga title in 2019 and took them to semis in the CL showing probably the most impressive individual performances ever in the CL.. And no he didn't have Xavi, Iniesta or Neymar on his side..
Tbf most Argentinians still would, I think.
Neutral fans could make the argument that Messi's better club career and much greater longevity outweighs Maradona's WC win already, but if you're actually from Argentina then a World Cup win obviously carries extra weight.
no he doesn't. Messi just makes that team more successful.
That's a fair point, I agree, Maradona>Messi in Argentina and nothing can change that even a WC win as there are tons of emotions involved there.
Maradona's value goes beyond pure football skills & success for Argentina fans..
Realistically winning the World Cup will ultimately be enough for the vast majority of people, I would think.
Because for all that people (rightly) praise some of Maradona's achievements at club level despite his much fewer trophy wins, there's still far too much of a gulf in terms of their longevity at the highest level.
And that perception of Messi being the better player would only increase as time goes on. In 30-odd years time when those old enough to actually remember the 1986 World Cup are aging out at 70+ years old and you have a whole slew of adults nostalgic for Messi's peak years, it wouldn't really be a contest any more. At that point it'll be about comparing Messi to whatever god-like player(s) have emerged across those three decades.
In fact even without the WC win, you'd probably see sentiment shift towards Messi over time for that same reason anyway, at least outside of Argentina where winning the WC will always carry a lot more weight. People are always more likely to argue for the player they actually saw being the best.
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The world cup final separates GOATs from each other. People also tend to over look the fact the 'world cup finals' is the final stage of a 1.5 year grueling qualification.
Replace Higuain/Palacio with Burruchaga, and see what Maradona would end up with in terms of legacy. Not to mention the guy should normally have been red carded against England for the handball and end the tournament in the QFs with a proper referee. Messi would at least have another Copa and probably a WC already in his resume with a proper finisher..
People seem to forget football is a team game.. Messi in this WC went above and beyond in terms of contribution to his team's success and left his mark like a true GOAT already. The result in the final does not affect that unless he individually underperforms..
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Don't care. Maradona is #1 for me
never a debate.
Messi eclipsed Ronnie as a player, leader and human being on both club and international level.
it's Messi, Pele and Maradona, with Ronaldo literally being a ghost in world cups. he simply can't be in same tier and isn't.
siuuuuuuu.
Messi eclipsed Ronnie as a player, leader and human being on both club and international level.
it's Messi, Pele and Maradona, with Ronaldo literally being a ghost in world cups. he simply can't be in same tier and isn't.
siuuuuuuu.
No debate now ever.
Lock the thread but do not delete it for future generations to see how joke of a comparison this was..
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Was fun while it lasted 
. Someone seriously checks on Ronaldo.
. Someone seriously checks on Ronaldo.I wonder if Ronaldo even watched the final.
Funny that he won it on penalties after scoring so many penalties
The End.
After the Portugal Euro win I was sure Ronaldo would end up with the better international career. Mad how much has changed since then.
Messi winning the WC towards the end of his career while Ronaldo is making a fool of himself
Checkmate
Its over
Better club career, better International career.
Is this a debate even?
That this thread evolved into a Maradona vs Messi discussion even before the kick-off in the final tells you everything. Messi well clear at every possible parameter except narcissism and has been for the duration of their careers.
And soon it'll turn into Mbappe vs Messi
Which might actually be more interesting as Mbappe actually does something at WC unlike Ronaldo
Actually I feel Mbappe should be compared to Pele (like Messi with Maradona) already 1 WC under his belt, with france being this youngb and talented, he may go on to challenge Pele’s 3 WCsAnd soon it'll turn into Mbappe vs Messi
Which might actually be more interesting as Mbappe actually does something at WC unlike Ronaldo
Is Ronnie okay? What does Piers say?
Close the thread. The debate is settled.
France got poisoned
Well thats what you get for eating frogs.
The infamous Higuain excuse. I love how Messi fans pretend he didn't miss the best chance in that final. The identical chance he scored for Barca vs the same center back and keeper in the UCL 6 months later.......I also should remind you Maradona whilst carrying injury returned to the final again in 1990. Lest you imagine his legacy at the world cup is only about 1986...
Now this is extreme reaching. It wasn't poor refereeing that caused the ref to miss the hand ball. This is up there with arguing England would not have won the world cup in 66 but for the referee.
Only VAR would have caught the handball incident, tech which wasn't invented till Messi had lost a world cup final as an adult.
Utter bullshit. You are now blatantly pretending in all the Copa Finals he lost he played with the worst finishers.
We never have. Its you Messi fans who often do. When he chokes along with his team, you exclude him from the failure and lay the blame squarely at his team mates. When he wins with the team, its all down to him.
He hasn't gone 'above and beyond". That is gross over exaggeration. He has simply finally done his job as a football great and performed from start to finish at the world cup. With the trophy to top it off to make it even better. He can now take his seat with Pélê, well earned.
Might be Messi, hard to decide really.
So, what's your point? Messi carried his team to two finals too. Maradona was only above average in 1990 and Argentina was nothing impressive both against Yugoslavia and Italy, was very lucky as they were dominated in both games. You probably were too young to remember or your bitterness towards Messi clouds your judgment as usual..
All the players surrounding the incident saw the handball including many fans as well as the TV presenters of the game, watch the highlights..
What are you talking about weirdo? The guy was chosen twice as MVP in Copas and lost in penalties.. Even Argentine people put the blame on Higuain and Palacio in WC as well as Copa.. Go tell Argentine people that what they think is pure BS, good luck with that...
And even today, you had Lautaro Martinez, Otamendi and Montiel replacing Higuain in competing against each other to make sure Argentina loses another final..
please increase your copium amount, you definitely need it, we are all concerned about your well-being
Thank you, my friend.
I update your post as well after tonight.
He's now has the most goal contributions in world cup history with 21 and is the only player in history with multiple golden balls.
Theyre not comparable.
I’d take Messi this year over ‘86 Maradona
His girlfriend is Argentinian, she was probably screaming Messi is the GOAT!
You never saw '86 Maradona