Since his first season Bale has averaged 2 goals per CL campaign. Thats a shocking stat for someone being placed so high on here.
Who is the greater player: Ryan Giggs vs Gareth Bale
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Talk about playing someone down!
What about the way he had a couple of seasons absolutely annihilating fast players with his extreme pace, or scoring 2 goals to win Real the champions league. Or winning it 3 years in a row.
Or ripping the Premier league to bits, hence being signed by Real in the first place?
Real are a bit of a political team, and he's had to fight various clowns out to make him a sacrificial lamb, yet he's still there.
And this is all from me, a guy who doesn't hold any particular esteem for him.
Especially not versus Giggs, my favourite ever United player.
What affect has Bale had away from that overhead kick? Hes either injured, left out or isnt contributing to the offensive side. Hes assisting around 2 per CL campaign as well.
Theyre about to be eliminated this year and he hasnt had 1 goal or assist so far.
Its important to actually analyse his contribution if that cotribution is being pushed foreard but all it consists of is broad strokes such as the points you made.
Again hes 30, hes not a retired great. These last few years where he has sat on the bench, on the treatment table or out of the entire squad is a blackmark against him.
If we are going to analyse his performances then lets analyse them. What games best showcases his talents over the last 4 years?
Giggs only averaged 7 goals per season across all competitions, which is actually pretty poor for a top flight winger. Nowadays, he would likely be criticised for it as they are expected to do both now.
Also, Giggs' average in the CL was 2 goals and 3 assists per season. Not really much different from those Bale stats.
Your Bale stat are wrong, anyway. He has averaged 3 goals and 3 assists.
His goals and assists have been very important to Real's CL wins:
Aggregate scores
13/14 Q Finals - Real 3 v 2 Dortmund (1 Goal)
13/14 - CL final (1 goal) winning goal
15/16 - CL final (1 assist) Real won on penalties; Bale scored one.
17/18 - CL final (2 goals) Practically won the game himself.
It seems strange to play down Bale's CL impact when he scored or assisted in 3/4 finals and was critical to them even reaching the final in 13/14.
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In our run in 2011 he played midfield and scored or assisted in every round including the CL final.
Im not saying Giggs was a CL destroyer, im saying Bale isnt tiers above him in that competition. If Bale isnt scoring all these goals, tearing teams apart with pace and 30 yard goals then what is he doing in that competition that makes up for being so outclassed domestically?
He scored a cracker v Liverpool but his inpact post his first season is minimal at best. A back up to Isco for a long time.
Lets not forget Giggs has played in 4 CL finals himself. Surely its absurd to judge ability on the outcome of two games? Would Madrid have won 4 Cls if they faced the greatest side of all time in 2 of those finals? That Barca side who destroyed Madrid everytime they played during that period?
Its absurd
when all is said and done I feel that Bale’s career will be forgotten. There’s still some time for him, but to me he’s just a highlights player much like pogba. “On his day he was unstoppable/genius/a beast” which we’ve all heard and said before for many players. Relatively poor attitude and application along with the injury problems work against his legacy. Yes his top level is better than Giggs, but the latter will be rightly remembered as one of the premier league’s greats and a modern legend of Manchester United, one of the most prestigious clubs in the world. Bale will just be remembered for having a monster season or 2 at Tottenham. And then being a highlights player for Real Madrid.
Giggs for me but there's not much between the two great footballers. The edge has to go to Giggs on longevity but on a peak to peak comparison it's a draw.
The point is that he basically only showed up in those games, being a hinderance in the league for the past 3 or 4 years and showing terrible attitude.
The problem is british media only watched 2 real madrid games a season, the semi CL and finals in CL and thought those were his performances.
Also, you overrate his goals like "Bale (winning goal in 13/14) when in reality Real Madrid won 4-1 and were going to win anyways once it hit OT, also he was awful that game and the goal has the degree of difficulty of eating candy
Did anyone find Bale better on the LW than RW anyway back in the day?
I felt the whole RW thing messed up playing like the 3rd most important man at real madrid and he arguably still does. Obviously he had to fit next to Ronaldo and benzema but it wasnt ever like watching the full version of the player to me.
If he had moved on from Madrid and got to play CAM/ST for another club then boy he would have maintained that top 5-10 players in the world for much much longer.
I felt the whole RW thing messed up playing like the 3rd most important man at real madrid and he arguably still does. Obviously he had to fit next to Ronaldo and benzema but it wasnt ever like watching the full version of the player to me.
If he had moved on from Madrid and got to play CAM/ST for another club then boy he would have maintained that top 5-10 players in the world for much much longer.
Didn’t he played RW majority of the time for Spurs the season he was scoring worldies every week and rescuing their arses? I know he destroyed us when he played CAM but I remember he was pretty inconsistent there.
Bale might have a better peak, but I don't buy the argument that he was ever the best player in the league.
Even during his 2012-2013 season, I think RVP was clearly better and you can make an argument for Suarez too.
Even during his 2012-2013 season, I think RVP was clearly better and you can make an argument for Suarez too.
Yeah both RVP and Suarez were better than him.
It seems many posters here do not understand the difference between "greater player" and "better player".
Greater is career wise and better is ability wise. Giggs for sure has a greater career than Bale thus he is the greater player. But he's definitely never been a better player than a peak Bale. For example Bale's shooting technique is far much better than Giggs. I can't remember of Giggs doing any screamer like Bale usually did in his peak.
Greater is career wise and better is ability wise. Giggs for sure has a greater career than Bale thus he is the greater player. But he's definitely never been a better player than a peak Bale. For example Bale's shooting technique is far much better than Giggs. I can't remember of Giggs doing any screamer like Bale usually did in his peak.
Giggsy. greater and better and smarter and prettier.
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By your own metrics, Giggs, for many, would be the greater player beings as his dribbling and close control were world class even at the very end. The equivalent for Bale would to be scoring screamers - or testing keepers - season after season, using your own criteria.
Gareth Bale is considered a kick and run merchant with regards to dribbling; his first touch and close control have as big a chasm in quality as the difference in their shooting.
By your own metrics, Giggs, for many, would be the greater player beings as his dribbling and close control were world class even at the very end. The equivalent for Bale would to be scoring screamers - or testing keepers - season after season, using your own criteria.
Trying to not just look at being clutch in big games, for those who watched Giggs a lot more than i have, what was his best season, and how does that compare to 12/13 Gareth Bale?
Giggs was also pretty much a speed merchant when he was young, he was basically a pure English style winger in his early age. Regarding speed, dribbling, agility, first touch and close control I would say both are pretty similar at peak. Giggs was better at creativity and positional awareness but this was developed only in his later age imo. The point is by this time he had lost his speed and became a midfielder; or he was no longer at his peak.
Bale is better at explosiveness and power, his shooting technique especially with live ball is phenomenal. Watch his screamers and you'd see. Giggs just can't do that. My point is at their peak, Bale can do pretty much all Giggs can while Giggs can't do all what Bale can. Thus peak Bale is a better player than peak Giggs.
And it seems you didn't read my post, I did say that Giggs is the greater player.
Some valid points but I’ve marked two that you are wrong. The first one is that Bale was great his last season with Tottenham. No question about that. We can also argue that he was very good season before but it is not like he has dominated Premier League for years. We got some other players being very good / magnificent one or two seasons but we are not calling them head and shoulders about anyone. If you take Bale and his best (last) season in Tottenham you still got Van Persie as example scoring 26 in PL alone. So head and shoulder? I would be carefull using that.
Giggs nowhere near Bale as a attacking player? As I mentioned days ago to someone. People who have not seen Giggs in his prime are underestimating him. Am I guessing right that you have not seen him in the middle of 90’s? If you think Bale was devestating in 2 seasons (and now Madrid) and watched Giggs last years of 90’s you would not be saying ”nowhere near”. Ask any defender those years what they thought about when they would stand in front of Giggs.
I’m not saying Bale is bad. He clearly is a very very good player. But there must be some balance. I said and still stand by my word that Giggs to Bale is what Scholes is to Eriksen.
Giggs played in a deeper position to Bale. You can't compare Giggs to the likes of Real Madrid's Ronaldo or Bale. He was a traditional winger who sometimes cut inside while they are forwards in all but name
You have got to be kidding?
Looking at this video: Giggs could do all of the fast runs in a straight line Bale could, but he was quicker off the mark and much more nimble and a far superior dribbler. Bale was stronger and even more direct with a greater goal threat. Overall, I think Giggs would have been an even better player today and would have been more of a goal scoring wide forward. When he played, his job was to hold the width and assist the strikers. I think Giggs had much more to his game than Bale ever had - at least as fast, especially with the ball and acceleration, and a much better dribbler. I would pick Giggs to my team any time.
No ? I still have flashes of him flying in my head when he first busted into the scene. Was a really big fan of him and I thought he could be in the top 5 players in the world one day. Sadly he couldn't.
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You are stating that Gareth Bale and Ryan Giggs have the same or similar aspects in terms of touch, dribbling and the way their pace was used, then you say you saw Giggs play...
There is night and day between them as far as shooting is concerned; anyone saying different - which I don't think anyone is - would struggle to be taken seriously. Equally, there is an equal gulf between them in terms of close control and dribbling, just in the other direction. I won't labour the point. I'd suggest you rewatch some peak Giggs at the very least and see if your opinion still stands.
Giggs' positioning, as a traditional two-way winger, who both defends with, or behind his full-back, or combining to join the attack, was always spot on and was noted that for such a whippet, he neither lacked bottle or neglected his work on the defensive end. Giggs is also noted as one of the best tackling wingers there has been - his sliding tackles were immaculate and subsequently had him take balls cleanly when going to ground and bursting back out the traps with it as a trademark that will not get any airtime in a thread like this.
Giggs learned a new position, or two, in his latter day career, but a lot of his game then was simple transference from what he was as a winger: studious, intelligent, beguiling and a far better dribbler than anything but the top percentile dribblers of his aged years. But the separation of Giggs and his two-fold career has nothing to do with anything: pound-for-pound, there is a serious under appreciation of what Giggs was as a winger in the descriptions being put forth of him.
Your second bold is plain reduced to shooting from distance; Giggs can't do that. Bale may well be able to run fast in straight lines, but turning players inside out, he has nothing on Giggs' prime there.
What's interesting to me is how, what are outliers for Bale, clearly become him for some people i.e. he made a crazy run one time, and thus he's the equal of someone who made a career of it; he scores an insanely good goal, in a singular moment, next thing, he's a bastion of the technique like, say, a Ronaldinho, Rivaldo or whoever else has renown for the spectacular. It's cherry picking of the highest order, not 'Bale' by the definition of his career outside of that snapshot. Now, if we move that to long-range shooting, then sure, the case becomes clear and evident, but no; Bale's being encompassed as the kind of maestro he never was with the additions you've made in the second bolded.
I'm not a Bale fan, but I will call a spade a spade, just as I will for Giggs.
Giggs' biggest issue was consistency mostly brought on by constant injuries to his hamstrings and then having his form disrupted. He rarely got to build on form in the league due to niggles and issues that made things difficult for him as he had to focus on playing within himself rather than really opening up a lot of the time.
He would let loose and really throw caution to the wind in big games in both the domestic and international settings and that's when the 'truer' Giggs would be on display.
It's fair to say that at the very start of his career we got to see him putting his foot to the floor on a game-by-game basis and he's probably most lauded for the '93-'94 season in that regard where he and Kanchelskis as well as Sharpe ran rampant and our game was predicated on them setting the wings alight. The plaudits across Europe and his rating as one of the hottest prospects in the game came from this time, but were cemented by his consistency in the biggest CL games against Europe's best, notably Juventus (the best team in the world from the mid to late 90's) and Inter vs. Zanetti.
Giggs' career was a 'what could have been' for him if his hamstrings were made of sterner stuff, as he was, game management was vital and curtailed him until he moved inside and no longer went into top gear in either accelerative actions or full stride running.
Tbh after reading all your post I am still unable to see anything that proves peak Giggs is a better player than peak Bale.
And it's not like Bale did only one insanely good goal or had only one amazing moment. He did those on a pretty regular basis tbf. You can watch them here:
Apart from his renown bicycle goal, the goal at 4:20 in that clip impresses me the most. It was a live ball came direcly from a long pass, not a rebound. A really difficult one but he stroke it beautifully with astute accuracy and power. If you ever play football you'd know to hit such goal required not only very good technique, power but most importantly excellent sensitivity. Very few players can do such.
I'm a big fan of Giggs and he is our legend but I still have to say peak Bale is a better player than peak Giggs. And I'm no Bale fan.
P/S: if you still can't see it let's put things this way. We all know our Ronaldo right? Giggs was never come close to that level but Bale, at peak is the player closest to our Ronaldo level in the last 10 years imo. You may say Neymar as well but he's a different style. And I said our Ronaldo I actually mean when he still was a winger at Utd.
Another P/S: now I understand why some raised their ebrow when I said in term of style both are pretty similar. Giggs did use a lot of body feint and direction changes when dribbling. And Bale is more a kick and rush but actually I remember him did use body feint and direction changes sometime. Imo Bale did more "kick and rush" just because he has that devastating explosiveness. You do what you're best at. But still Giggs also relied heavily on speed and acceleration, he stopped playing as a winger once he lost it. That's why I said both are pretty similar. Both relied heavily on their speed and acceleration.
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Giggs is much better at dribbling in tight spaces. His ability to twist and feint allows him to go inside and outside a full-back. Bale's dribbling style is more suited to hitting open space behind the full-back, he doesn't have the same ability to open up space in tight areas.
Oh I just edited my post then I saw you quoted me
Giggs did use a lot of body feint and direction changes when dribbling. And Bale is more a kick and rush but actually I remember him did use body feint and direction changes sometime. Imo Bale did more "kick and rush" just because he has that devastating explosiveness. You do what you're best at. But still Giggs also relied heavily on speed and acceleration, he stopped playing as a winger once he lost it. That's why I said both are pretty similar. Both relied heavily on their speed and acceleration.
P/s: I found some clips. Apart from his kick and rush trademark you can see him using body feint, direction change and pretty good in tight space as well. Tall and strong, great pace, phenomenal acceleration, power, agility, dribbling, finishing, longshot, football brain, technique, heading. His passing is ok too. Imo he's a very complete player. A perfect fit for the PL. His only weak point probably is he is pretty injure prone. What a waste he didn't come to us, would be our legend if he did I think.
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So did George Best's but he's still talked about in revered tones
They really were not that similar at all. Did you see Giggs play live at his peak in the nineties?
Giggs was much quicker off the line than Bale, who was never the quickest from a standstill - more of a top speed and accelerating at pace player. Giggs was also much more nimble, more agile and a far superior dribbler. Bale was, and still is, much stronger, so he was able to fend off defenders who made contact with him - which Giggs struggled more with. Look at the video I posted above showcasing Giggs' best runs. At 30 seconds, there's a run where he just blows past his defender - in terms of raw speed, he was just as fast as Bale, even over distance - but he struggled with his hamstrings, which forced him to adapt. Even at 39, he could blow past defenders if he wanted to, he just became more restrictive.
Every player relies on his best attributes. Hazard relies on his acceleration, as does Messi. Ibra relied on his strength and athleticism. Rio relied on his pace when defending, and when he lost that due to a back injury, he had to adapt his game. The best players are able to adapt, like Giggs did - Gerrard failed to, and Bale seems to be failing as well, and he's only 30 - he should be in his prime.
Giggs was a better player than Bale, but he played in a far superior team to Bale's Tottenham, which made it harder to stand out. When Bale came to RM, he was not able to put as big a mark on games - he played with equally good and better players. As for the national team, many players (including Messi) have not been as good for the NT. But, that is a major bonus for Bale.
I think you've quoted the wrong person.
Speed merchant Giggs undoubtedly was but to suggest Bale's dribbling was anywhere near Giggs is ludicrous. Young Giggs ability to run full pelt whilst skinning people was absolutely breathtaking and the cause of all the Best comparisons.
You are right - all that work.
They really were not that similar at all. Did you see Giggs play live at his peak in the nineties?
Giggs was much quicker off the line than Bale, who was never the quickest from a standstill - more of a top speed and accelerating at pace player. Giggs was also much more nimble, more agile and a far superior dribbler. Bale was, and still is, much stronger, so he was able to fend off defenders who made contact with him - which Giggs struggled more with. Look at the video I posted above showcasing Giggs' best runs.
At 30 seconds, there's a run where he just blows past his defender - in terms of raw speed, he was just as fast as Bale, even over distance - but he struggled with his hamstrings, which forced him to adapt. Even at 39, he could blow past defenders if he wanted to, he just became more restrictive.
Every player relies on his best attributes. Hazard relies on his acceleration, as does Messi. Ibra relied on his strength and athleticism. Rio relied on his pace when defending, and when he lost that due to a back injury, he had to adapt his game. The best players are able to adapt, like Giggs did - Gerrard failed to, and Bale seems to be failing as well, and he's only 30 - he should be in his prime.
Giggs was a better player than Bale, but he played in a far superior team to Bale's Tottenham, which made it harder to stand out. When Bale came to RM, he was not able to put as big a mark on games - he played with equally good and better players. As for the national team, many players (including Messi) have not been as good for the NT. But, that is a major bonus for Bale.
This has been my assessment too, both in this thread and others. Giggs was clearly blessed, he had one of the best combinations of physical and technical abilities you could find. Absolutely rapid, and could keep the ball on a string at great speed.
But the inconsistencies you speak of are largely airbrushed out in debates. The best did it for 20 years’, is held up against a player from today who had ups and downs - as if that player would need to replicate his greatest season 20 times to have a chance. That is not what happened with Giggs. He had below par games and below par seasons. He spent more than 20 years in England and other wingers who just ‘passed through’ made the team of the season almost as much in their whole careers.
For what Giggs threatened to become in his first few seasons, he undoubtedly didn’t fulfil it, quite simply as he never developed to become one of the world’s ‘best’ (not ‘most talented’) players. I agree that a lot of this may we’ll have been down to his persistent hamstring injuries, but it doesn’t really matter.
Well this one was close
I'd take a 30 year old Giggs over a 30 year old bale any day.
Bale was a long range belter king with electric pace.
Giggs had a much higher footballing IQ and skill set.
Giggs had a much higher footballing IQ and skill set.
Not that appearance stats make a huge difference.....
In his first 20 full seasons, Giggs played 611 league games so averaged 30.55/season.
Total games in those 20 seasons, 874. An average of 43.7 games/season.
Bale has managed more than 30 league games in a season once for Real, twice for Spurs. And has managed more than 44 total games in a season, once.
Well that ends the debate then aye!
I’m being lazy by the way, but what season was Giggs 30 in?
Work it out for yourself, save yourself having to think of a snide reply.