Who is the greater player: Ryan Giggs vs Gareth Bale

[El Jefe]

[Gareth Bale is considered a kick and run merchant with regards to dribbling; his first touch and close control have as big a chasm in quality as the difference in their shooting.

By your own metrics, Giggs, for many, would be the greater player beings as his dribbling and close control were world class even at the very end. The equivalent for Bale would to be scoring screamers - or testing keepers - season after season, using your own criteria.

I could quote a number of people on this thread but this myth needs to stop being repeated. Bale was a very good dribbler, he wasn't just a kick and run player, at Madrid in his first few seasons he used to pull off some audacious moves. Granted he wasn't as good in tight spaces but making him sound like he was a Valencia type dribbler just isn't true.

Giggs was a better dribbler but Bale could dribble too, especially at his peak.

 

[Rozay]

Work it out for yourself, save yourself having to think of a snide reply.

Okay, I will.

Just had a brief wiki check. He would have turned 30 in 2003. His career is broken down into a 5 year section on there. The period listed 2000-2005 is summarised the following way:

Spoiler: 2000-2005

The 2002–03 season was one to forget for Giggs. He was forced to defend his poor form, insisting that he was not finished.[33][34] This dip in form included being booed off the pitch in the 74th minute of a 1–1 semi-final first legdraw at home to Blackburn Rovers in the Worthington Cup on 7 January[35][36] and an open-goal miss during a 2–0 defeat against Arsenal in the FA Cup on 16 February that was described as the worst of his career, and prompted chants by the Arsenal fans of "Give it to Giggsy."[37][38] A week later, on 24 February, Manchester United chief executive Peter Kenyon refused to rule out the possibility of Giggs leaving Old Trafford, saying: "It's too soon to say whether we would even consider a bid, and all we want to do at the moment is concentrate on this season." It was further claimed that a rift in the dressing room was contributing towards Giggs' possible departure.[39] However, the following day, Giggs played one of his most memorable games, in a 3–0 victory against Juventus. After coming on as a substitute for Diego Forlán in the eighth minute, Giggs scored twice,[40][41]including a goal that would later be heralded as one of his greatest goals and one of his finest Champions League moments.[42][43]

After speculation all season that Giggs was close to joining Italian club Inter Milan, possibly with Brazilian striker Adriano as a makeweight,[36][44][45] Giggs quashed the rumours by saying he was happy at United.[36][46]

He played in his fourth FA Cup triumph on 22 May 2004, making him one of only two players (the other being Roy Keane) to have won the trophy four times while playing for Manchester United. He has also finished with a runners-up medal three times (1995, 2005 and 2007). His participation in the victory over Liverpool in September 2004 made him the third player to play 600 games for United, alongside Sir Bobby Charlton and Bill Foulkes. He was inducted into the English Football Hall of Famein 2005 in recognition of his contribution to the English game.[47]

In 2005, Giggs' form had improved and was no longer suffering with the hamstring injuries which had plagued his career,[48] which he attributed to taking up yoga.[49]

This is just a snapshot of the things I say, and it happens everytime a player today is compared with legends of the past. Once you retire, your career is shipped off to YouTube and filtered/compressed into a 30 minute highlight reel of the best bits. It is impossible for most current players of today, especially in this media generation that loves to micro analyse and statistically quantify every ‘inconsistency’.

The words used to describe that period for Giggs would never be used to describe Giggs in a broader conversation anymore. Most people won’t even remember such periods. All that matters is we won loads and he did a lot of good things as we were winning them. I suspect that if you could transport yourself back to 2003, you would not be so willing to dismiss Gareth Bale, even of today, for the Ryan Giggs you have in front of you right then. Gareth Bale, right now, vs 20 years and 20 titles - different story.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Giggsy's football style in the 90's offered United something completely different and out of this planet. People often forget he was compared to Maradona and Best many times, especially after that FA Cup game and match against Juve around 2003 when he left the best defense in the world and best goalkeeper in that time in the dust while entering his 30s.

I'm often wondering if we'll ever see that kind of player in Premier League again. You have to be more than superb to win 13 titles in most demanding league in the world and keep going on high level till your 40s.

Looking forward to see how Bale will shape himself in last 5 or 10 years of his career, because Giggsy was timeless example of legend.

 

[2mufc0]

What affect has Bale had away from that overhead kick? Hes either injured, left out or isnt contributing to the offensive side. Hes assisting around 2 per CL campaign as well.
Theyre about to be eliminated this year and he hasnt had 1 goal or assist so far.
Its important to actually analyse his contribution if that cotribution is being pushed foreard but all it consists of is broad strokes such as the points you made.
Again hes 30, hes not a retired great. These last few years where he has sat on the bench, on the treatment table or out of the entire squad is a blackmark against him.
If we are going to analyse his performances then lets analyse them. What games best showcases his talents over the last 4 years?

Some very good points, some are saying parts of Giggs's career is being airbrushed but it's even worse for Bale, used as a bit part player in all those big moments, but apart for that what has he really done over the course of a whole season ? His league career is largely forgettable.

 

[Foxbatt]

You put Giggs at his peak into that Madrid side and he will do much more than Bale ever did. Cruijff said the only British player who would get into the best Barca side.

 

[MrEleson]

Bale at his peak was a top 4 player in the world. His sheer pace and power made him near unstoppable at his best. His dribbling skills and passing is grossly underrated. In his best seasons, he carried his teams and managed well over 20 goals in all comps and 20 assists. I'd take him at his peak over Giggs but Giggs obviously has had a better career.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Okay, I will.

Just had a brief wiki check. He would have turned 30 in 2003. His career is broken down into a 5 year section on there. The period listed 2000-2005 is summarised the following way:


This is just a snapshot of the things I say, and it happens everytime a player today is compared with legends of the past. Once you retire, your career is shipped off to YouTube and filtered/compressed into a 30 minute highlight reel of the best bits. It is impossible for most current players of today, especially in this media generation that loves to micro analyse and statistically quantify every ‘inconsistency’.

The words used to describe that period for Giggs would never be used to describe Giggs in a broader conversation anymore. Most people won’t even remember such periods. All that matters is we won loads and he did a lot of good things as we were winning them. I suspect that if you could transport yourself back to 2003, you would not be so willing to dismiss Gareth Bale, even of today, for the Ryan Giggs you have in front of you right then. Gareth Bale, right now, vs 20 years and 20 titles - different story.

Still wouldn't swap them. United at that time were in transition, Chelsea were blowing everybody away in the league but we still managed to win the FA cup and finish top 3. My point being, at 29/30 Giggs was ripping the arse out of juve and still had another 10 years at the top ahead of him. At 30 what is bale doing? Getting splinters or hanging around in the treatment room.

 

[youngrell]

Okay, I will.

Just had a brief wiki check. He would have turned 30 in 2003. His career is broken down into a 5 year section on there. The period listed 2000-2005 is summarised the following way:


This is just a snapshot of the things I say, and it happens everytime a player today is compared with legends of the past. Once you retire, your career is shipped off to YouTube and filtered/compressed into a 30 minute highlight reel of the best bits. It is impossible for most current players of today, especially in this media generation that loves to micro analyse and statistically quantify every ‘inconsistency’.

The words used to describe that period for Giggs would never be used to describe Giggs in a broader conversation anymore. Most people won’t even remember such periods. All that matters is we won loads and he did a lot of good things as we were winning them. I suspect that if you could transport yourself back to 2003, you would not be so willing to dismiss Gareth Bale, even of today, for the Ryan Giggs you have in front of you right then. Gareth Bale, right now, vs 20 years and 20 titles - different story.

2002/03 was Giggs’ most productive season in terms of numbers, 14 goals and 18 assists. 27 assists the following season and 22 the season before.

He may have had patchy form but he was still putting up impressive performances and figures, some of the best of his career.

Pretty decent for a season to forget.

 

[Rozay]

Still wouldn't swap them. United at that time were in transition, Chelsea were blowing everybody away in the league but we still managed to win the FA cup and finish top 3. My point being, at 29/30 Giggs was ripping the arse out of juve and still had another 10 years at the top ahead of him. At 30 what is bale doing? Getting splinters or hanging around in the treatment room.

Well I know that. My point is that asking you, it is very unlikely to be a fair fight. Giggs at 30 scored a great goal against Juve. Yes. He had 10 years left - that is irrelevant as that was unknown when he was 30. Taking the player in front of us at the time, I don’t think he was better than Bale. Go back 10 years further, I would have absolutely thought that he would have become a better player than Bale, but with the privilege of watching it play out, he never did. As has been said above, Bale was a top 4 player in the world for about 4 years. A world in which the top 2 spots were sewn up by two of the GOATS too. After that, injuries took a toll, although he still showed his class from when he could get on the pitch I think. He also managed some inspirational spells for Wales in that time.

You are within your rights, of course, to say you prefer Giggs, but I just don’t think that it’s because Giggs was a better player. Regarding 10 years left, you don’t know at what age Bale will retire anyway, so all you can do is take them as they were. If he chose too, I reckon Bale has the attributes to convert back into a top LWB or LB personally, nobody knows how and where his story will end. Having watched Giggs’ story, I’ve definitely seen better wide players than him since then - some with similar ability, some with less ability. That’s not my argument. Just who was ‘better’. And Bale was one of the very best players in the world, and showed it for long enough to know that it wasn’t a fluke period. He’s the type of player you can look at and say ‘if we had him, we could definitely have won x or y trophy’. Like how some look at Kane and say about Kane now, or Shearer before. I don’t look at Giggs and feel the same. Of course he was part of great trophy winning teams, but from an individual standpoint, didn’t really make the difference often enough I don’t think personally. Such was our dominance though, that nobody really had to make a difference that often. We could share it around. I think we’d have had a bigger chance of winning more CLs personally if we had Bale in his prime over Giggs in his.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

In the cliched phrase to describe playing ability "form is temporary, class is permanent", Bale is the example of form and Giggs is the example of class.

 

[Rozay]

In the cliched phrase to describe playing ability "form is temporary, class is permanent", Bale is the example of form and Giggs is the example of class.

I think Michu is more an example of ‘form’, I don’t think ‘a good run of form’ applies to players who were one of the world’s best players for years. Bit ‘arsh!

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I think Michu is more an example of ‘form’, I don’t think ‘a good run of form’ applies to players who were one of the world’s best players for years. Bit ‘arsh!

A bit harsh but fair in this case as he's being compared to Ryan Giggs, who was class for 23 years.

 

[fergies coat]

Giggs was the more complete player, and don't forget he played in a traditional 442 so had to defend aswel as stay out wide to feed the strikers. If he was twenty years old today he would score bucket loads.

 

[Rozay]

A bit harsh but fair in this case as he's being compared to Ryan Giggs, who was class for 23 years.

That rationale would make Giggs one of, if not the best player ever. It’s nice, but it’s not a requirement to play for 20 years to cement your legacy or show how good you are. Many better players than Giggs have played at the top for a lot less than him.

His longevity is praiseworthy, but has nothing to do with how good a player he was. His ‘goodness’ should be judged by his goodness, not his longness. That said, as a separate measure - his longness should be praised for the phenomenal achievement it was.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Peak Bale was unplayable - but the consistency and longevity of Giggs from start to finish takes it for me. He was the longest running cog in the greatest period of dominance I've seen in my lifetime - and at certain points in his career, he put in some serious matchwinning performances in big games.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

That rationale would make Giggs one of, if not the best player ever. It’s nice, but it’s not a requirement to play for 20 years to cement your legacy or show how good you are. Many better players than Giggs have played at the top for a lot less than him.

His longevity is praiseworthy, but has nothing to do with how good a player he was. His ‘goodness’ should be judged by his goodness, not his longness. That said, as a separate measure - his longness should be praised for the phenomenal achievement it was.

Meh. Form is temporary, class is permanent.

 

[Yagami]

Giggs was the more complete player, and don't forget he played in a traditional 442 so had to defend aswel as stay out wide to feed the strikers. If he was twenty years old today he would score bucket loads.

During that era, he played as a SS very rarely and he was always impressive there, too.

i remember in the very early 2000s, when we were playing Deportivo quite a lot in Europe, he played as a 10/SS away to them (with Scholes on the left) in one of the games and was soooo good. Deportivo were amazing back then, too.

 

[VorZakone]

This video of Giggs is awesome:

 

[SirScholes]

Bale’s goal against United at Old Trafford would have been a better comparison. Ran through the defence and finished with weaker foot too.

Not really the whole pitch opened up and he jogged past a poor Rio Ferdinand, no close control was required that day either

Bale has more athleticism when fit bit Giggs was just better

 

[Web of Bissaka]

To win a season, peak Bale (the winger version at Spurs).

To win and dominate many seasons, Giggs easily.

 

[billybee99]

This video of Giggs is awesome:

That is feckin scary. Absolutely scary fast. Now imagine him playing on the right of a 4 3 3 cutting in and shooting on his left foot with zero defensive responsibility. Bale is better my arse.

 

[Rozay]

That is feckin scary. Absolutely scary fast. Now imagine him playing on the right of a 4 3 3 cutting in and shooting on his left foot with zero defensive responsibility. Bale is better my arse.

Did you really just tell us to ‘imagine’ a version of Giggs that never was, and then use that version as a basis of your claim that he is better?

I think it’s probably best we just ‘remember’ the Giggs that was, rather than ‘imagine’ one that wasn’t. We don’t need to imagine his career, we saw it. It went on for more than 20 years I’m told.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Bale was a man of spectacular moments but

This video of Giggs is awesome:

People genuinely forget Giggs was so quick because he spent 5 or 6 years at the end of his career as a slow, wily playmaker. He was as quick as Salah or Mane today on the wing, quicker even, and that pace and directness was so important to United in the 90s. It helped the whole team, you couldn't take your eye off him because he could burn you.

 

[Vicenterubio]

From a Real Madrid fan: Ryan Giggs x10000

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Bale is incomparable to Giggs.

Giggs would have been better than Mbappe/Neymar and comparable to early Cristiano had he emerged in the wide forward era.

The first 7-8 years of Giggs career trumps Bale in talent. Easily.

I LOVE Bale btw. I think he’s phenomenal. Giggs was another level though.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

He was as quick as Salah or Mane today on the wing.

Kanchelskis was better than Salah and Mane and Giggs made him look average.

Giggs is obscenely underrated by younger fans of football. It’s stupid.

 

[cyril C]

That rationale would make Giggs one of, if not the best player ever. It’s nice, but it’s not a requirement to play for 20 years to cement your legacy or show how good you are. Many better players than Giggs have played at the top for a lot less than him.

His longevity is praiseworthy, but has nothing to do with how good a player he was. His ‘goodness’ should be judged by his goodness, not his longness. That said, as a separate measure - his longness should be praised for the phenomenal achievement it was.

Longevity, or availability, is one of the important attribute of a great player. How great can you be if you are on and off like Jones? Bale has in fact pull off some great achievement, by scoring great goals as a sub in key matches, but you can't do this every season, and he is still hated by some fans for his on-off form.

 

[Rozay]

Longevity, or availability, is one of the important attribute of a great player. How great can you be if you are on and off like Jones? Bale has in fact pull off some great achievement, by scoring great goals as a sub in key matches, but you can't do this every season, and he is still hated by some fans for his on-off form.

Yea, I think I appreciate longevity for what it is. Don’t get me wrong, to play at the top for 20 years is a remarkable achievement. I just don’t think it makes you ‘better’.

I mean, if comparing a player like Giggs to a player who was brilliant but retired at 21 with injury then fair enough, I think one of the first things to bring up would be ‘time served’. But in all reality, as impressive as it is, a player isn’t required to play at the top for 20 years to prove his worth. Most players don’t retire at 40. That shouldn’t skew any comparison to Ryan Giggs. Unless you only played for like 3 years. If you had a regular lifespan of a career, then your work should be matched up against Giggs with the simple metric of ‘who was better?’. I feel like the longevity thing is a curve ball constantly brought into these arguments because nobody played as long. But the argument is who played as well, not long.

Messi hasn’t retired yet, but he became a better player than Giggs once he had held his level for like 4 seasons. That’s long enough to see it was not a fluke, and given that it was clearly much better than what Giggs produced - he is simply better. He was better than Giggs by the time he was like 26.

Of course Messi is an extreme example. But a player like Robben was also better than Giggs for me. He also had a lot of injury problems and retired at 34 as opposed to 40, but we got a long enough look at him on the pitch to make an assessment of his level. I appreciate that Bale’s ‘level’ hasn’t been one straight line of brilliance, but another disadvantage of comparisons like this is the dismissal of the fact that Ryan Giggs’ career wasn’t like that either. Comparing any retired great to a current player with ups and downs is hard as, if they were successful, the poor bits are all forgotten.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

From a Real Madrid fan: Ryan Giggs x10000

No, but still let's pretend Bale is something he isn't while blaming others for doing the same for Giggs.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Yea, I think I appreciate longevity for what it is. Don’t get me wrong, to play at the top for 20 years is a remarkable achievement. I just don’t think it makes you ‘better’.

I mean, if comparing a player like Giggs to a player who was brilliant but retired at 21 with injury then fair enough, I think one of the first things to bring up would be ‘time served’. But in all reality, as impressive as it is, a player isn’t required to play at the top for 20 years to prove his worth. Most players don’t retire at 40. That shouldn’t skew any comparison to Ryan Giggs. Unless you only played for like 3 years. If you had a regular lifespan of a career, then your work should be matched up against Giggs with the simple metric of ‘who was better?’. I feel like the longevity thing is a curve ball constantly brought into these arguments because nobody played as long. But the argument is who played as well, not long.

Messi hasn’t retired yet, but he became a better player than Giggs once he had held his level for like 4 seasons. That’s long enough to see it was not a fluke, and given that it was clearly much better than what Giggs produced - he is simply better. He was better than Giggs by the time he was like 26.

Of course Messi is an extreme example. But a player like Robben was also better than Giggs for me. He also had a lot of injury problems and retired at 34 as opposed to 40, but we got a long enough look at him on the pitch to make an assessment of his level. I appreciate that Bale’s ‘level’ hasn’t been one straight line of brilliance, but another disadvantage of comparisons like this is the dismissal of the fact that Ryan Giggs’ career wasn’t like that either. Comparing any retired great to a current player with ups and downs is hard as, if they were successful, the poor bits are all forgotten.

Nobody is claiming that Giggs was outstanding for 25 years. Just that he was better than Bale whose case is weakened by a) not maintaining his level/having longevity on his side (it seems) b) having mediocre general play

 

[Cascarino]

Bale because he gave a shit about Wales.

I think Michu is more an example of ‘form’, I don’t think ‘a good run of form’ applies to players who were one of the world’s best players for years. Bit ‘arsh!

Michu is a really sad case. If not for injuries, he could have achieved so much. Special player. Your general point about people valuing longevity too much when it comes to comparing players is something I agree with. Certainly it'll come into the equation but only as one factor in a holistic assessment A lot of the time it is more about the level reached rather than how long a career lasts. Well I guess the criteria is different for everyone and subjective, but I'd place a world class 5 years above a decade of very good performances.

 

[adexkola]

Bale didn't have a world class 5 years

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Bale didn't have a world class 5 years

Precisely. Maybe one or two. At other times, and often in those as well, his end product was terrific but papered over sub par all round play. I'm not saying he hasn't been a very good footballer but he definitely had major limitations even at his best.

 

[mancan92]

Kanchelskis was better than Salah and Mane and Giggs made him look average.

Giggs is obscenely underrated by younger fans of football. It’s stupid.

Come on you can't genuinely say kanchelskis is better than Salah ffs.

 

[2mufc0]

No, but still let's pretend Bale is something he isn't while blaming others for doing the same for Giggs.

Problem with Bale has been consistency and the Real fans who watch him week in and week out don't rate him which says a lot. While outsiders who see him scoring overhead kicks in CL finals skews their views .

 

[balaks]

I'm a Spurs fan and absolutely love Bale but Giggs is the greater player.

 

[Cascarino]

Bale didn't have a world class 5 years

I wasn’t referring to Bale with my 5 years vs 10, though I didn’t make it clear at all. If was choosing who was the greater player without bias it’d be Giggs.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Problem with Bale has been consistency and the Real fans who watch him week in and week out don't rate him which says a lot. While outsiders who see him scoring overhead kicks in CL finals skews their views .

Indeed. And by no means do I think Bale isn't a very good player. And Madrid fans are more demanding and ruthless than ours. But it's pointless relying purely on stats and pretending he's absolutely elite ignoring the heavy touches, the lack of fineness/ability in tight spaces, ability to reinvent himself etc

 

[Bobski]

Lot of mentions in this tread that if Giggs was playing now he would be on the right wing cutting in and shooting and would end up with more individual awards.

Perhaps but I doubt that role would allow the range in his game to be seen, in many ways it is a rather limited position, Salah for example scores a lot of goals but his general play is unremarkable, players like him are the modern day poachers. Bale for me was never more fun to watch than when he was on the left wing scorching past full backs and whipping in quality crosses. I loved those long runs Giggs would embark from deep in our half carrying the play, scrambling defensive shapes, he was such a counter attacking weapon in that way.

Mentions of Bale having a higher top level is interesting to me. Bale at his absolute best would monster defenders and smash in a rocket from 30 yards, Giggs would leave you exhilarated, enthralled and inspired but was less likely to score the decisive goal, Giggs was the more talented footballer in my eyes and aesthetically he was just a beautiful player to watch, so elegant and graceful but also electrifying, a rare combination.

 

[Foxbatt]

A young Giggs on the left was frightening. I can't remember who the defender was but Giggs accelerated from his own half with the ball and just went past the defender and all I remember was the commentator saying it is a Rolls Royce vs a Fiat. Giggs was not very athletic like Bale and I don't think he has ever attempted an overhead kick at all. But certainly the better player. At least at club level.