Who you rate the highest Pep, Klopp or Tuchel?

captaincantona

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This thread just include tuchel to just belittle him. He will get eligibility to come into it only after winning the pl. So no comparison as of now. Yet I won't take either pep or Klopp to manage chelsea right now.

Tuchel more suited to our over all set up. Has adaptability and aim is to win now and improving the squad he got.

I don't know what you are talking about intense and chelsea are playable but Klopp or pep not.On our day we too unplayable not even allow opponents a shot on target. City found it in cl final liverpool found it last season. So not sure what do you mean.
First- I am in no way criticising Tuchel...Definitely on Chelseas day they are unplayable but they will not dictate the game against City or Liverpool...they will not dominate...they will set up to counter the approach of the other team. Klopp and Pep just go out and play their own game regardless of the opponent for the part...

So maybe that could be seen as a limitation and I guess has been one of the few valid criticisms of Pep...that he has no plan B...where as Tuchel will adapt and find a way...Klopp and Pep are stubborn and play their ways regardless.

but when your way of playing is that good...it would seem silly not to trust it.

As regards Tuchel specifically...it’s early days...very early days...and his personality is not easy to live with when things don’t go to plan ( plenty of documented incidents of this) and so while I enjoy watching Chelsea now...if success doesn’t continue and Abramovich starts getting antsy...we might see a different Tuchel and a different Chelsea. You’re still in your honeymoon period...just enjoy it!
 

Bearded One

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Yup, Thiago missed 35% of his games at Bayern due to injuries, Konate in the last 2 years has missed 46 games due to injuries and Chamberlain if I'm not mistaken also missed a lot at Arsenal due to injuries. They're problem is they've target players who had injury concern and now are dealing with that, which they're scouting department should've notice, either they bought them because of Klopp or both parties agreed on these targets.
If we are looking at injuries both teams have had to deal with frankly speaking City have had to endure injuries more so than Liverpool.
 

sangria

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First- I am in no way criticising Tuchel...Definitely on Chelseas day they are unplayable but they will not dictate the game against City or Liverpool...they will not dominate...they will set up to counter the approach of the other team. Klopp and Pep just go out and play their own game regardless of the opponent for the part...
Which is why Klopp versus Pep is such an interesting contest. What happens when two coaches try to play on the front foot as a matter of principle.
 

romufc

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Guardiola has no competitor at the moment.
Clearly does, Klopp beat him to the league.

Tuchel beat him to the CL and Klopp has won the CL too.
 

LoneStar

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Honestly, I wouldn't think too much about it. The simple fact that he has forced Chelsea into the same sentences as City and Liverpool in the short period of time he has been with us is a testament of the awesome work he has done so far and his managerial capabilities. Tuchel will always be underrated regardless of what he achieves, fine by us, as long as we are the ones benefiting from those achievements.
Yes, he has won a CL with you. We all know that. But it’s totally fair for neutral fans to see how he does with Chelsea in the long term before heralding him with the likes of Pep and Klopp. Pep is a serial winner and has changed the PL by breaking the 90 points barrier for fun. Just yesterday, his team played PSG all over the park. Klopp has also completely transformed Liverpool to win the PL and CLs, and managed to compete with Pep. I will wait till Tuchel wins more with Chelsea long term to put him in their tier.

For me Pep and Klopp are in a league of their own. Tuchel comfortably the best of the rest in the PL.
 

LoneStar

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Clearly does, Klopp beat him to the league.

Tuchel beat him to the CL and Klopp has won the CL too.
I agree. If City end up winning the PL and CL this season, I think he’ll be above Klopp for me. Big if.
 

romufc

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I agree. If City end up winning the PL and CL this season, I think he’ll be above Klopp for me. Big if.
That's fine, he will be above Klopp but it won't be what the poster said. Klopp and Tuchel are competitors.
 

JPRouve

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I'm a Klopp fanboy with or without his drunken YAWN malarkey. I also prefer Tuchel to Guardiola.
 

Theonas

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Clearly does, Klopp beat him to the league.

Tuchel beat him to the CL and Klopp has won the CL too.
At any one point in time, he always has competitors from Sir Alex, Mourinho, Klopp, Pochettino, Conte and now to Tuchel and back again to Klopp. The same that it was for Sir Alex and just like Sir Alex, the record against those competitors is a mixed bag. Where Pep has no competitor however is when you evaluate his work over the past ten years and the impact he has over modern coaching. No one comes close.
 

Bebestation

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Pep's tactics are the best.

Klopp can do it with the worst players.

Tuchel can do it with the widest variety of players.
 

Theonas

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Tuchel brought instant success
Pep had to buy a whole new starting XI after the disaster that was 16/17 City
Tuchel also failed to bring success with PSG and Dortmund whereas Pep brought instant success to Barcelona when he took over without changing the whole team. You can pick any one point in time to make any argument.
 

BalanceUnAutreJoint

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Tuchel also failed to bring success with PSG and Dortmund whereas Pep brought instant success to Barcelona when he took over without changing the whole team. You can pick any one point in time to make any argument.
Tuchel took PSG to their first ever CL final, outdoing every other manager in the club's history in the process.
Hard to call his time at Dortmund a failure either, given the players available to him in a league ruled by Bayern
 

JPRouve

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At any one point in time, he always has competitors from Sir Alex, Mourinho, Klopp, Pochettino, Conte and now to Tuchel and back again to Klopp. The same that it was for Sir Alex and just like Sir Alex, the record against those competitors is a mixed bag. Where Pep has no competitor however is when you evaluate his work over the past ten years and the impact he has over modern coaching. No one comes close.
Look at location. Blink twice of Pep is in the room. :D

I don't think that Pep has had any major influence in the game during the last decade, if anything I would say that it's Klopp with the gegenpress he used with Dortmund, during the previous decade I would say that Bielsa was the most influential particularly during the second part of that decade with Chile pressing rules which led to a revival for Chile and then Sampaoli winning the Copa America. Bielsa influence on Guardiola was pretty obvious from the start.
 

Banat

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I genuinely think it's not even a competition.
I dislike them all as they are rival managers, but Pep is on another planet compared to other managers. He is just type S, a football innovator. In few decadeals, he will be remembered as the best/legendary manager in football.
Klopp is the leader in tier A below (Klopp, Tuchel, Conte).
 

Theonas

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Look at location. Blink twice of Pep is in the room. :D

I don't think that Pep has had any major influence in the game during the last decade, if anything I would say that it's Klopp with the gegenpress he used with Dortmund, during the previous decade I would say that Bielsa was the most influential particularly during the second part of that decade with Chile pressing rules which led to a revival for Chile and then Sampaoli winning the Copa America. Bielsa influence on Guardiola was pretty obvious from the start.
I don't think neither, nor I are really qualified to judge independently who has the most influence because we are simply not experts. What we have though is the wider view in the football coaching community and there is no reason really to doubt the testimony of countless managers and how they talk about Pep and what he brought to the game. Tuchel for once is self confessed Pep acolyte.

This, and Klopp or Bielsa's influence are not mutually exclusive. I would say that over the past twenty or thirty years, the figures usually cited in terms of tactical influence are Sacchi, Cruyff, Bielsa and Pep. At the end of the day everything is derivative of something else and if you dig deep enough, you will find that no one is original but if we put it in terms of who is the most tactically studied figures in modern coaching, I don't think I am missing many names.
 

RedCurry

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Easily Pep for me. CL is a fluky tournament and I wouldn’t judge any manager based on them winning it. When it comes to weekly performances, Pep’s teams are the most dominant teams. They methodically destroy the opposition teams like no other manager can.
 

Theonas

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Tuchel took PSG to their first ever CL final, outdoing every other manager in the club's history in the process.
Hard to call his time at Dortmund a failure either, given the players available to him in a league ruled by Bayern
I never called it a failure, I said he did not deliver instant success. There is a wide spectrum of levels between instant success and failure.
 

JPRouve

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I don't think neither, nor I are really qualified to judge independently who has the most influence because we are simply not experts. What we have though is the wider view in the football coaching community and there is no reason really to doubt the testimony of countless managers and how they talk about Pep and what he brought to the game. Tuchel for once is self confessed Pep acolyte.

This, and Klopp or Bielsa's influence are not mutually exclusive. I would say that over the past twenty or thirty years, the figures usually cited in terms of tactical influence are Sacchi, Cruyff, Bielsa and Pep. At the end of the day everything is derivative of something else and if you dig deep enough, you will find that no one is original but if we put it in terms of who is the most tactically studied figures in modern coaching, I don't think I am missing many names.
You made that point first which I presume was only an opinion and I shared mine, nothing else.
 

romufc

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At any one point in time, he always has competitors from Sir Alex, Mourinho, Klopp, Pochettino, Conte and now to Tuchel and back again to Klopp. The same that it was for Sir Alex and just like Sir Alex, the record against those competitors is a mixed bag. Where Pep has no competitor however is when you evaluate his work over the past ten years and the impact he has over modern coaching. No one comes close.
Yep he has revolutionised modern coaching. Pepe does also need the best in class to produce because his football is so technical.

Nothing wrong in that, top clubs who want to be successful will know this and give him the funds, which is why he is only suited to the top clubs.
 

Unique1905

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Yes, he has won a CL with you. We all know that. But it’s totally fair for neutral fans to see how he does with Chelsea in the long term before heralding him with the likes of Pep and Klopp. Pep is a serial winner and has changed the PL by breaking the 90 points barrier for fun. Just yesterday, his team played PSG all over the park. Klopp has also completely transformed Liverpool to win the PL and CLs, and managed to compete with Pep. I will wait till Tuchel wins more with Chelsea long term to put him in their tier.

For me Pep and Klopp are in a league of their own. Tuchel comfortably the best of the rest in the PL.
For me, I don't see much difference top tier coaches; Klopp, Pep, Tuchel, Conte, Zidane etc all have their strengths and weaknesses. Too much factors to consider before declaring or assuming one is better than the other. For instance Pep has never coached a team inferior to its rivals, Barca, Bayern, City are all top clubs before he took charge and if we want to be overly critical, he hasn't performed in Europe bar Barcelona. Klopp has only competed thrice for the league title (including this season) since joining Liverpool in 2015, Leicester has won the league in that period and Poch had Spurs challenge twice, so we shouldn't make too excuses on why Liverpool couldn't.
 

Theonas

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Yep he has revolutionised modern coaching. Pepe does also need the best in class to produce because his football is so technical.

Nothing wrong in that, top clubs who want to be successful will know this and give him the funds, which is why he is only suited to the top clubs.
Exactly! You can point out limitations or caveats in every manager. Not a single one in history ticked every box and no one was perfectly suited to every challenge. Shankly could be criticized for not winning as much as Paisley where Paisley could be criticized for needing a ready made team to win. Both would be insane though. Pep's strengths happen to be more associated with glamour, a bit like the strengths of forwards and creative players are celebrated and valued more. Just like it doesn't mean those creative players are suited to play every position in the pitch, Pep is not equipped to handle every challenge in coaching.
 

romufc

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Exactly! You can point out limitations or caveats in every manager. Not a single one in history ticked every box and no one was perfectly suited to every challenge. Shankly could be criticized for not winning as much as Paisley where Paisley could be criticized for needing a ready made team to win. Both would be insane though. Pep's strengths happen to be more associated with glamour, a bit like the strengths of forwards and creative players are celebrated and valued more. Just like it doesn't mean those creative players are suited to play every position in the pitch, Pep is not equipped to handle every challenge in coaching.
I mean, I guarantee no other manager can get the team the way Pep does with 2 traditionally 10's playing at 8 and one DM.

Its incredible the way he gets KDB, Rodri, Silva to work along with Cancelo and Walker.

We have managers that need defensive full backs and 2 DM's and we still can't defend.

With the amount of money we spend, Pep would be perfect.
 

DoneDaDa

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If we are looking at injuries both teams have had to deal with frankly speaking City have had to endure injuries more so than Liverpool.
I'm criticizing Klopp/Liverpool not looking at excuses for them, quite simply they have depth to compete with City, its just they choose injury prone players and now people are crying wolf for them.
 

432JuanMata

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I mean, I guarantee no other manager can get the team the way Pep does with 2 traditionally 10's playing at 8 and one DM.

Its incredible the way he gets KDB, Rodri, Silva to work along with Cancelo and Walker.

We have managers that need defensive full backs and 2 DM's and we still can't defend.

With the amount of money we spend, Pep would be perfect.
Nail on the head for me. Pep be perfect here as we spend as much as city. Klopp is better with a smaller budget but Pep would do better here.
Since Pep joined city we have spent the same yet he has domestically cleared up and made a CL final
 

BayernFan87

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Tuchel also failed to bring success with PSG and Dortmund whereas Pep brought instant success to Barcelona when he took over without changing the whole team. You can pick any one point in time to make any argument.
I'd rank Tuchels Dortmund on the same level as Klopps Dortmund. Tuchel only won one DFB Cup with them because Bayern were better during his time compared to Kloppos years.

And how did he fail at PSG? He led them to a CL final that they barely lost.
 

SirReginald

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First- I am in no way criticising Tuchel...Definitely on Chelseas day they are unplayable but they will not dictate the game against City or Liverpool...they will not dominate...they will set up to counter the approach of the other team. Klopp and Pep just go out and play their own game regardless of the opponent for the part...
Watch the first half against Liverpool and tell me they weren’t lucky to be 3-0 down at halftime. We were all over them like a rash, right up until the red card.
 

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Pep followed closely by Klopp. Tuchel still has a bit to do to reach their level, let's wait and see.
 

432JuanMata

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I'd rank Tuchels Dortmund on the same level as Klopps Dortmund. Tuchel only won one DFB Cup with them because Bayern were better during his time compared to Kloppos years.

And how did he fail at PSG? He led them to a CL final that they barely lost.
It’s madness that a CL final is a fail. So every manager of a top side bar the winning manager failed. That PSG side came up against a Bayern team that smashed everyone including numerous PL sides and if Mbappe had his shooting boots on would of won
 

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If you have a huge budget, Pep.
But if you aren’t backed by a sovereign country, and have to develop players, buy smartly, like any well managed club, it’s gotta be Klopp.
 

432JuanMata

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If you have a huge budget, Pep.
But if you aren’t backed by a sovereign country, and have to develop players, buy smartly, like any well managed club, it’s gotta be Klopp.
This is why I would take Pep over Klopp. Yes most think Klopp be perfect here(he would succeed) I feel with our spending power Pep be perfect
 

lefty_jakobz

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I think Klopp is ahead of Pep.
Reason being Pep hasn’t won the CL since he left Barca with arguably the best domestic team ever. Plus Pep always makes it about him, the defeats in the CL where he got knocked out was due to him messing about with the team.
 

manunited1919

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This is why I would take Pep over Klopp. Yes most think Klopp be perfect here(he would succeed) I feel with our spending power Pep be perfect
while we do have great spending power, it’s limited to maybe one or at most two players a year. There seems to be some prudence to our spending, otherwise Mou would have bought Maguire when he wanted him, and he would not have been fussing about lack of spending. City regularly spend £50-£60m for players that will go to the bench.
 

432JuanMata

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I think Klopp is ahead of Pep.
Reason being Pep hasn’t won the CL since he left Barca with arguably the best domestic team ever. Plus Pep always makes it about him, the defeats in the CL where he got knocked out was due to him messing about with the team.
Yes that is true but Pep also has cleared up domestically and feel he be better at United than Klopp
 

OverratedOpinion

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It is too soon to include Tuchel in this discussion. That is nothing against him as he is doing extremely well, we are just talking about the 2 best coaches of this generation.

For me Pep the most tactically brilliant coach to have ever lived. Klopp has a mix of being extremely good tactically and as a coach whilst also being an incredible motivator.

If I was pushed I would have to say it's probably Rangnick