Who you rate the highest Pep, Klopp or Tuchel?

mu4c_20le

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All managers you mention reached the CL final years ago. And I remember a significant amount of people on the Caf treating Poch like the second coming, so yes at that time he was in the discussion, despite him winning nothing compared to Tuchel.

When discussing who I rate right now the most I will definitely look at recent performances, not so much at what happened years ago.
Yeah that's pretty much what I meant but without explicitly stating it.. it's recency bias. When I look at Tuchel's career, I see that he did pretty well at Dortmund, meh at PSG, and good at Chelsea. But he still needs to win the PL before seriously entering this discussion, that's the one thing he does not have in common with the other two. Longevity is another one, but that comes in time.
 

roonster09

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They were a Steven Gerrard slip away from winning the title before he arrived though.
it's hilarious how posters stoop to any level to make a point.

Do you think Liverpool team that was close to title was same as the one that Klopp took over?
 

Dancfc

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Yeah that's pretty much what I meant but without explicitly stating it.. it's recency bias. When I look at Tuchel's career, I see that he did pretty well at Dortmund, meh at PSG, and good at Chelsea. But he still needs to win the PL before seriously entering this discussion, that's the one thing he does not have in common with the other two. Longevity is another one, but that comes in time.
Why 'meh' at PSG?
 

weetee

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Like many others want to understand why Tuchel is in the same group as Pep and Klopp? Both these managers have turned many players into world class talent, name me one player Tuchel has turned it into world class talent.
O. Dembélé for example? Or Mkhitaryan? Made feckin' Weigl look like a legit Busquets replacement. Just from the top of my head.


I don't think he's in the same discussion with Pep and Klopp yet but no need to downplay his success. He was brilliant at Mainz for a couple of seasons, people act like those achievements don't count because no transfer budget, bog names or title but that's nonsense. His time at PSG wasn't "meh" either.
 

Womp

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Depends what you're going for I guess. Wjth money, I don't think there's a manager around who can build as relentless a team as Pep can. Klopp is far more suited to running his players into the ground but getting more out of lesser players. Tuchel seems to have a simpler approach, yet all his players still know their roles and duties

I'd go Pep, Klopp and Tuchel.

Don't think there's much between Klopp and Pep though. Tuchel is a level below imo, at least until he wins more consistently.
 

JDoe

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it's hilarious how posters stoop to any level to make a point.

Do you think Liverpool team that was close to title was same as the one that Klopp took over?
Liverpool without Suarez, Sterling, Gerrard, permacrocked Sturridge finishing 6th in the league and sitting at 10th when Klopp arrived = league winning squad, on par with City
Barcelona without Ronnie, Deco, but with Alves, Henry, 21 y/o Messi who came off his first season as a key player, finishing 1st, 2nd and 3rd the seasons before = 4th best squad in the league at max.

:houllier:
 

roonster09

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Liverpool without Suarez, Sterling, Gerrard, permacrocked Sturridge finishing 6th in the league and sitting at 10th when Klopp arrived = league winning squad, on par with City
Barcelona without Ronnie, Deco, but with Alves, Henry, 21 y/o Messi who came off his first season as a key player, finishing 1st, 2nd and 3rd the seasons before = 4th best squad in the league at max.

:houllier:
Exactly.

Also I have seen people saying "klopp runs the squad into the ground with the same few players", well if he had squad full of 40-50 million players he wouldn't have done that isn't it. Not every manager have the same luxury.
 

adexkola

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Liverpool without Suarez, Sterling, Gerrard, permacrocked Sturridge finishing 6th in the league and sitting at 10th when Klopp arrived = league winning squad, on par with City
Barcelona without Ronnie, Deco, but with Alves, Henry, 21 y/o Messi who came off his first season as a key player, finishing 1st, 2nd and 3rd the seasons before = 4th best squad in the league at max.

:houllier:
To provide more context to your post, Barcelona in 07-08 finished 18 points behind the winners (a mediocre Real Madrid who mastered the art of crashing out of the CL at the round 16 stage). It wasn't a quality 3rd.
 

mu4c_20le

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Why 'meh' at PSG?
Isn't that obvious? He lost to a Ole Ole Ole I love you who fielded Pereira and Young alongside McFred, Smalling and Bailly in defence. And then again the next year when Ole outsmarted him with a 5 back.
 

Dancfc

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mu4c_20le

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You can make any manager look shit bringing up random head to heads, even the very best ones.

Exhibit A: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/football/fa_carling_premiership/464027.stm
It's not random though, the first time he got knocked out. The second time was another upset at home. Anyways, meh doesn't mean he was bad, he just achieved the bare minimum, plus making the cl final. He's slightly better than Emery, who had an even higher win percentage. I don't remember there being much hubbub when he got the sack, it's only now that people are thinking that was a dumb decision with full hindsight.
 

Dancfc

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It's not random though, the first time he got knocked out. The second time was another upset at home. Anyways, meh doesn't mean he was bad, he just achieved the bare minimum, plus making the cl final. He's slightly better than Emery, who had an even higher win percentage. I don't remember there being much hubbub when he got the sack, it's only now that people are thinking that was a dumb decision with full hindsight.
The average football fan thought it was dumb for Southampton and Brighton to sack Adkins and Hughton respectively. The average football fan thought Conte wouldn't have been able to compete with Jose, Pep and Klopp. The average football fan tends to base their opinion around what the media is telling them.

Also Tuchel's title win% at PSG was double that of 2 of his 3 predecessors.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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If Moyes had Peps resources and time he would do a much better job.
5-6 CL titles at least.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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Look at Antonio. If he can score almost every game under Moyes this season then Messi would average 2 goals per game under his management.

It is clear Pep is far from the top. He only wins for being rich. Give other better managers the same money and who knows what they can do.

Klopp is a fraud as well. He only wins for good scouting that other people do. He is lucky they picked up Lewandowski and Salah.

Tuchel is the real deal, but still a fraud for his record with PSG. If you have Neymar, Messi, Herrera and Mbappe then you should win CL every year.
 

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I’d disagree with the bolded bit. He struggled because all of his cb’s got long term injuries at the same time. And even if it was a poor season, he still got third place, five points after you in second.

And as for sucking the life out of players, I assume you’re talking about the front three? But look at his back ups last season; Jota, Origi and Shaqiri. This season’s the same, except Shaqiri’s been replaced by Minamino.
I am just saying what happened with Dortmund and past liverpool season. It may not be his fault but have to wait until this season how his team overcome difficulties. I will say if he take some 90 points and can't able to win the league that's ok congrats he is greatest of all in modern era. Until then in my opinion pep is no.1.
 

FatTails

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If Moyes had Peps resources and time he would do a much better job.
5-6 CL titles at least.
Why waste bytes in the RedCafe database for this?
 

JDoe

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To provide more context to your post, Barcelona in 07-08 finished 18 points behind the winners (a mediocre Real Madrid who mastered the art of crashing out of the CL at the round 16 stage). It wasn't a quality 3rd.
Would you say PSG's squad was much worse last year than the year before that, since they finished 2nd in a one horse race? Or would you rather say that the quality is still there, but the problem lies elsewhere? Of course, this is not the slightest bit of a jab at Pep, managing and cleaning out that squad full of superstars and making them hungry again, playing some of the most dominant football there ever was is hard as it gets, but to question the squad or even comparing it to feckin Pool's is pretty insane, don't you think?

Exactly.

Also I have seen people saying "klopp runs the squad into the ground with the same few players", well if he had squad full of 40-50 million players he wouldn't have done that isn't it. Not every manager have the same luxury.
Yep, I don't want to claim that Klopp is the clearly superior manager and the best in the world, because he isn't for every team IMO, but having a 50m backup for literally every feckin single position is surely better and easier to manage than having to play some random academy/out-of-position players or loanees if one of your first XI players is injured. That's precisely why teams with the best squads usually win the league.
 
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jem

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Klopp by a mile, which sucks considering I have an LFC-supporting brother.
 
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Look at Antonio. If he can score almost every game under Moyes this season then Messi would average 2 goals per game under his management.

It is clear Pep is far from the top. He only wins for being rich. Give other better managers the same money and who knows what they can do.

Klopp is a fraud as well. He only wins for good scouting that other people do. He is lucky they picked up Lewandowski and Salah.

Tuchel is the real deal, but still a fraud for his record with PSG. If you have Neymar, Messi, Herrera and Mbappe then you should win CL every year.
:lol:
 

Bearded One

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Baffles me really, especially coming from United fans. Not comparing Klopp to SAF, long way to go, but it's like asking "would SAF have been given time and could he have succeeded for United today, as it took him 7 years to get them their first league title". You start with a much stronger squad, with much more money to spend. There is a chance that the reign wouldn't have been that impressive, but there is no doubt most, if not all managers won titles easier and earlier the stronger the club is.
This is not shooting the man but highlighting the fact that people only choose to see his glory days and forget that there were days of struggle as well. When Conte came to England, he beat all the big boys like Pep, Klopp and Jose (I believe) to the title and yet I wouldn’t place him ahead of these guys except Jose.

it’s almost like in a bid to put one manager over another people erase the struggles of their preferred candidate from their minds when in reality they all have had their failings. Truth be told there are some clubs that are more patient with building than some others who want to succeed every single year. Not shooting the man because if I had a magic wand Klopp will be the next Man Utd manger just wanted to give a balanced perspective as much as possible.
 

SAFMUTD

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Pep is arguably the best manager of all time, Klopp is definitely a top 3 coach of the last 10-15 years while Tuchel has been good for around 5-6 years.

Career overall I rate Pep way higher than the other two, present I'd say Klopp is above Pep. Tuchel is great, but can be mentioned in the debate with the other two just yet.
 

Verward

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O. Dembélé for example? Or Mkhitaryan? Made feckin' Weigl look like a legit Busquets replacement. Just from the top of my head.


I don't think he's in the same discussion with Pep and Klopp yet but no need to downplay his success. He was brilliant at Mainz for a couple of seasons, people act like those achievements don't count because no transfer budget, bog names or title but that's nonsense. His time at PSG wasn't "meh" either.
Mkhitaryan was bought by Klopp and had a very good 1st season. In 2nd season, his form was down but then whole team was on downward. To some extent I'd give credit to Tuchel for renaissance of Mikhtariyan. Dembele was already known upcoming talent and he was there for 1 season only. And I wont put Dembele as world class talent.
Not trying to downplay his success. I just get irritated when Chelsea fans think he belongs to elite group because he won CL with Chelsea. He is a very good manager but he's not in the same league as Pep or Klopp, I think he still has to prove to be considered in the same league as in Pep & Klopp.

Those who say Pep took mediocre Barca side, I don't agree to that. Barca at that time were in similar position as we are currently in now. They had a very good talented players (Xavi, Iniesta, Yaya, Puyol, Eto, Henry, milito etc) but not a good team. Pep came with is tiki-taka philosophy and turned that team into unbeatable force. And that's what he has done later on at Bayern and City. To play in his team, you need to have real talent. I doubt his team will have players like Henderson. Neverthless, he is an excellent manager and I feel if tomorrow he take over our current side, he'll make them champion.
 

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Those who say Pep took mediocre Barca side, I don't agree to that. Barca at that time were in similar position as we are currently in now. They had a very good talented players (Xavi, Iniesta, Yaya, Puyol, Eto, Henry, milito etc) but not a good team. Pep came with is tiki-taka philosophy and turned that team into unbeatable force. And that's what he has done later on at Bayern and City. To play in his team, you need to have real talent. I doubt his team will have players like Henderson. Neverthless, he is an excellent manager and I feel if tomorrow he take over our current side, he'll make them champion.
I have to disagree here. He managed an extremely consistent Bayern team and deserves credit for that, but it was actually worse than the season before he took over. Heynckes' treble winning team was a different beast and Guardiola came close to keeping that level, but in the end lacked the final edge.
 

WeePat

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I think we need to distinguish between current
Mkhitaryan was bought by Klopp and had a very good 1st season. In 2nd season, his form was down but then whole team was on downward. To some extent I'd give credit to Tuchel for renaissance of Mikhtariyan. Dembele was already known upcoming talent and he was there for 1 season only. And I wont put Dembele as world class talent.
Not trying to downplay his success. I just get irritated when Chelsea fans think he belongs to elite group because he won CL with Chelsea. He is a very good manager but he's not in the same league as Pep or Klopp, I think he still has to prove to be considered in the same league as in Pep & Klopp.

Those who say Pep took mediocre Barca side, I don't agree to that. Barca at that time were in similar position as we are currently in now. They had a very good talented players (Xavi, Iniesta, Yaya, Puyol, Eto, Henry, milito etc) but not a good team. Pep came with is tiki-taka philosophy and turned that team into unbeatable force. And that's what he has done later on at Bayern and City. To play in his team, you need to have real talent. I doubt his team will have players like Henderson. Neverthless, he is an excellent manager and I feel if tomorrow he take over our current side, he'll make them champion.
Most of the people who are putting Tuchel in that group in this thread are not even Chelses fans.
 

Bearded One

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I have to disagree here. He managed an extremely consistent Bayern team and deserves credit for that, but it was actually worse than the season before he took over. Heynckes' treble winning team was a different beast and Guardiola came close to keeping that level, but in the end lacked the final edge.
We tend to take the best happenings of the candidates we favour, ignoring their shortcomings whilst highlighting the shortcomings of the ones we do not favour very much. I know Heynckes’ beast of a team was absolutely brilliant but they were beaten to the Buli title two straight years prior to an inferior Dortmund. It is only with hindsight we can say that the Buli a one horse race because it was not always so. This rarely gets a mention when that Bayern side is looked at.

Bayern struggled to win the league year in year out but Pep’s coming on the scene made it a routine win for Bayern. Pep himself is not without fault. I think he is a victim of his smartness. He usually too stuck on his ideas as a football purist and gets spanked from time to time as a result.
 
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ju_

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Mkhitaryan’s first season was good but far away from the level of his season under Tuchel. Btw I’m not a chelsea fan.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Pep is arguably the best manager of all time, Klopp is definitely a top 3 coach of the last 10-15 years while Tuchel has been good for around 5-6 years.

Career overall I rate Pep way higher than the other two, present I'd say Klopp is above Pep. Tuchel is great, but can be mentioned in the debate with the other two just yet.
No chance is Pep that high. He’s yet to even undertake a particularly challenging managerial stint.
 

weetee

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Mkhitaryan was bought by Klopp and had a very good 1st season. In 2nd season, his form was down but then whole team was on downward. To some extent I'd give credit to Tuchel for renaissance of Mikhtariyan. Dembele was already known upcoming talent and he was there for 1 season only. And I wont put Dembele as world class talent.
Not trying to downplay his success. I just get irritated when Chelsea fans think he belongs to elite group because he won CL with Chelsea. He is a very good manager but he's not in the same league as Pep or Klopp, I think he still has to prove to be considered in the same league as in Pep & Klopp.
Mkhitaryan had a good debut season but excelled under Tuchel. That is common knowledge if you remotely followed BVB back then. You not putting Dembélé down as a world class talent is your opinion but many would disagree - there is a reason Barca bought him for a record fee.

In general: the OPs question could be read as to who of those three managers is the best / most threatening right now as a challanger for the title. a) seems like a United-follower lumped Tuchel into the mix so you better ask him/her about that and more importantly it is just as much about the here and now and not necessarily about the hall of fame achievements those three dudes made in the rather distant past.
 

SAFMUTD

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No chance is Pep that high. He’s yet to even undertake a particularly challenging managerial stint.
Trophy wise he's up there, has 3 La Ligas, 3 Bundesligas, 3 EPLs, 2 UCLs and God knows how many cups. 9 league titles in 13 years with 3 different teams in 3 different leagues, even though the Bayern ones are pretty much automatic it's still impressive.
 

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No chance is Pep that high. He’s yet to even undertake a particularly challenging managerial stint.
Go tell that to other coaches or former coaches, as well as the great (or retired great) players he coached who all rate him that highly. I'm pretty sure they know better.
 

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For me its difficult to pick between Klopp and Pep.

Both incredibly passionate, track record of developing players,identity in the way their teams play, both winners, ... everything Ole isnt sadly.
 

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Go tell that to other coaches or former coaches, as well as the great (or retired great) players he coached who all rate him that highly. I'm pretty sure they know better.
The point stands that he hasn't had a particularly challenging managerial position thus far, and probably never will.
 

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It's not random though, the first time he got knocked out. The second time was another upset at home. Anyways, meh doesn't mean he was bad, he just achieved the bare minimum, plus making the cl final. He's slightly better than Emery, who had an even higher win percentage. I don't remember there being much hubbub when he got the sack, it's only now that people are thinking that was a dumb decision with full hindsight.
Pep got knocked out of CL by Tottenham,Monaco, and a Lyon side who was 11th in Ligue 1.

Don't forget that, if we arr talking about failures.
 

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