Why are we avoiding signing world class players?

Andycoleno9

snowflake obsessed matchday malcontent
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Not just now, even during Fergie we rarely went for best players in the world. Only Veron, Sanchez, Pogba and RVP can go in that category. And it is not that we don't have reputation and money. We just spend it on other players
Are you disappointed with that? My opinion that top players win you trophies. And we at this moment have only one (2 if you count Bruno) and he (Pogba) wants to go.
Meanwhile there are rumours how Mbappe will be available for 120mil this summer or free next summer. We are not a club who is even mentioned about that. Ramos will be free this summer and i doubt that we will go for him. Haaland rejected us because of Dortmund and now i don't think we will go in bidding war. If Kane will want out this summer, again i don't think that we will be serious contender in signing him.

I think that we must make some transfer statement this summer. To show that we are still top dog around.
 
Because we can't offer trophies, and we've seen with Pogba what happens if you try to keep a high reputation player for long without big trophies.
 
Im sure we would make a statement this summer if we could.. meaning world class player wanted to come to us over one of our rivals, which is getting less and less likely every year we go looking like we cant win major trophies
 
1. It’s a pretty arbitrary definition of what ‘world class’ constitutes.

2. Somebody like Mbappe - who you use as example - will have offers from genuinely every top club in the world. A large salary can only go so far for a player like that. He’ll get that at Madrid as well as more proven pedigree in Europe in recent years, for instance. You either put the legwork in so early in advance to even attempt to stand out, or let your trophy hauls and vision of football do the talking.
 
This summer I’d be surprised if we have the cash for a ‘statement’ signing. Reckon we will have around 50-60mil to spend and anything else, we will need to sell first.
 
We've never really been that sort of club. It's not what I expect from Manchester United.

I think if we offered more trophies and success on the pitch, the way Woody has us operating, we would probably be after these types of players more though. He loves a big name.

Also covid.
 
The idea that you'd count Pogba but not Bruno is something.

But no, I don't particularly care about making signings to show we're the "top dog", whatever that means. I just want us to make signings that build a team that wins things. If we can do that with lower key, less expensive signings then all the better.

It's when glaring needs don't get addressed or we botch entire transfer windows that I get irked, not when we don't sign the biggest names.
 
We're a bit of an awkward club. We're not as big as we think we are and as a club we can't really offer players much outside of money.
 
Its not only about money but success, truth is worldclass players want to go to clubs challenging for top titles, specially UCL. We are not even remotely close to that. We are a club that doesnt even have UCL football warranted each year, thats how far we are.

Sure we can level or offer more money in wages that our rivals, but lets face the ugly reality here. Currently we are not an attractive club for worldclass players. No worldclass player is thinking hey lets go to that struggling club that has not won a thing in the last 8 years, has an average manager and is full of inexperienced coaches, its a dream to spend my prime years there in a middle of a so called “rebuild”.

Thats why I find funny many here think we actually have a shot for Haaland, nevermind Mbappe.

Its not that we avoid worldclass players, its that they avoid us, no club avoids worldclass players its simply most clubs cant attract them.

We have to be real, worldclass players can choose any team they want. They’re not going to choose us at this moment, we need to look for the next bracket of players. Players that become worldclass here and hope we hit gold like we did with Bruno.
 
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You admitted we tried signing Haaland but he rejected us - not us avoiding WC players is it.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Not just now, even during Fergie we rarely went for best players in the world. Only Veron, Sanchez, Pogba and RVP can go in that category. And it is not that we don't have reputation and money. We just spend it on other players
Are you disappointed with that? My opinion that top players win you trophies. And we at this moment have only one (2 if you count Bruno) and he (Pogba) wants to go.
Meanwhile there are rumours how Mbappe will be available for 120mil this summer or free next summer. We are not a club who is even mentioned about that. Ramos will be free this summer and i doubt that we will go for him. Haaland rejected us because of Dortmund and now i don't think we will go in bidding war. If Kane will want out this summer, again i don't think that we will be serious contender in signing him.

I think that we must make some transfer statement this summer. To show that we are still top dog around.
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Falcao, Di Maria, Schweinsteiger worked well.

think Fergie did ok in terms of trophies.
 
It's simple, because you sign to fit your team not fit the name. Not every world class player can fit at United (i.e Di Maria)
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Not just now, even during Fergie we rarely went for best players in the world. Only Veron, Sanchez, Pogba and RVP can go in that category. And it is not that we don't have reputation and money. We just spend it on other players
Are you disappointed with that? My opinion that top players win you trophies. And we at this moment have only one (2 if you count Bruno) and he (Pogba) wants to go.
Meanwhile there are rumours how Mbappe will be available for 120mil this summer or free next summer. We are not a club who is even mentioned about that. Ramos will be free this summer and i doubt that we will go for him. Haaland rejected us because of Dortmund and now i don't think we will go in bidding war. If Kane will want out this summer, again i don't think that we will be serious contender in signing him.

I think that we must make some transfer statement this summer. To show that we are still top dog around.
Click to expand...
We should be building the best team that puts us in contention. Not just throwing most our budget on one player so we don't feel insecure.

Lets see how the summer goes, but I'd be pleased enough with a collection of smart transfers who collectively give us a vast improvement. I'd also be happy if a single transfer makes the same improvement, but only Haaland/Kane would have that impact in my opinion.
 
Under SAF it was a fiercely competitive environment and the best players pretty much all went to Italy or Real/Barca. We were linked, tentatively, to Figo, Thuram, even Nesta. None of those players were ever likely to choose England over what were then better leagues (plus everything else).

The Veron signing was probably the first time we did sign a major world class player (not from within the league). Signing Ronnie though was a serious transfer, not just because he turned out to be our best player, but because he was on the radar of every top club and that pre-season friendly just created urgency. And RVN was also on the cusp of becoming a top top player. But the proven world class talents have rarely if ever come to England, let alone United (prior to becoming the moneymaker it now is).

We came close with Ronaldinho though.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
We are not a club who is even mentioned about that.
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There's a reason for that.

We can compete reasonably well in the transfer market in terms of pure financial muscle, but we're obviously not a prime destination as such for players in his category. Why would he go to United? Realistically, it would have to be money - silly, silly money at that.

We need to rebuild our reputation before we can start attracting players like him on the strength of the "project" (i.e. the likelihood of challenging for the biggest trophies every season).

We're hardly "avoiding" world class players on principle. It's slightly more complicated than that.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Falcao, Di Maria, Schweinsteiger worked well.

think Fergie did ok in terms of trophies.
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Falcao and Bastian were signed when they weren't at the top anymore. In their 30s. Di Maria were transfer listed in Real but yeah, he failed for us. But so what? We should stop signing players at their peak because few have failed for us?
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Not just now, even during Fergie we rarely went for best players in the world. Only Veron, Sanchez, Pogba and RVP can go in that category. And it is not that we don't have reputation and money. We just spend it on other players
Are you disappointed with that? My opinion that top players win you trophies. And we at this moment have only one (2 if you count Bruno) and he (Pogba) wants to go.
Meanwhile there are rumours how Mbappe will be available for 120mil this summer or free next summer. We are not a club who is even mentioned about that. Ramos will be free this summer and i doubt that we will go for him. Haaland rejected us because of Dortmund and now i don't think we will go in bidding war. If Kane will want out this summer, again i don't think that we will be serious contender in signing him.

I think that we must make some transfer statement this summer. To show that we are still top dog around.
Click to expand...

Sorry but I'm not sure what your actual point is here. It's never really been the club's philosophy to sign galactico style players and out of the ones you mention Sanchez, Veron and arguably Pogba haven't worked out.

I'm not particularly disappointed no as we are still one of the most successful English teams ever.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Not just now, even during Fergie we rarely went for best players in the world. Only Veron, Sanchez, Pogba and RVP can go in that category. And it is not that we don't have reputation and money. We just spend it on other players
Are you disappointed with that? My opinion that top players win you trophies. And we at this moment have only one (2 if you count Bruno) and he (Pogba) wants to go.
Meanwhile there are rumours how Mbappe will be available for 120mil this summer or free next summer. We are not a club who is even mentioned about that. Ramos will be free this summer and i doubt that we will go for him. Haaland rejected us because of Dortmund and now i don't think we will go in bidding war. If Kane will want out this summer, again i don't think that we will be serious contender in signing him.

I think that we must make some transfer statement this summer. To show that we are still top dog around.
Click to expand...
Owners. They want profit, not trophies.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Falcao and Bastian were signed when they weren't at the top anymore. In their 30s. Di Maria were transfer listed in Real but yeah, he failed for us. But so what? We should stop signing players at their peak because few have failed for us?
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There aren’t that many ‘world class’ players that get transferred in their prime.

with transfer fees as they have become, personally I don’t think its a valid policy. The occasional player like RVP or Pogba (although it didn’t work out) to make the real difference is the way to go.

fergie built his success on players we could develop and who were ready to take a step up. Those are the players we should be signing.

Grealish is the perfect example.
 
We built stars, not bought them under Fergie.
 
Bastian said:
Under SAF it was a fiercely competitive environment and the best players pretty much all went to Italy or Real/Barca. We were linked, tentatively, to Figo, Thuram, even Nesta. None of those players were ever likely to choose England over what were then better leagues (plus everything else).

The Veron signing was probably the first time we did sign a major world class player (not from within the league). Signing Ronnie though was a serious transfer, not just because he turned out to be our best player, but because he was on the radar of every top club and that pre-season friendly just created urgency. And RVN was also on the cusp of becoming a top top player. But the proven world class talents have rarely if ever come to England, let alone United (prior to becoming the moneymaker it now is).

We came close with Ronaldinho though.
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Yeah, I was going to post most of that.

During the Fergie era we were winning trophies, but there was less of an imbalance in money and the world class players from hot climates - South America, Portugal, Spain, Italy, etc - preferred La Liga and Serie A were they could go to other huge clubs also winning trophies and based in warmer, more attractive, fashionable cities than Manchester for their wives and family (Milan, Barcelona, Madrid...).

Since the money came into the English game, we've won less trophies and had other rivals in Chelsea, Man City, etc, as well as Barcelona, Madrid, Paris. And if the money and chance of trophies is the same or even less, then Manchester is less attractive than London, Barcelona, Madrid, Paris, etc.
 
Said world class player must also fit into the team, style of play and have the right personality to fit team dynamics. Sancho definitely fits these 3 traits (plays at RW, plays direct football, great lad and already mates with Rashford and the rest of our English players). Haaland is a better player than Sancho imo, but his agent is Raiola.

Looking back at our recent history of signing world class players (we’ll go with the past decade), I can make a list with far more failures than successes:

Major successes:
RvP
Zlatan (for one season)

Minor successes:
Cavani

Minor failures:
Kagawa
Mata
Pogba
Mkhitaryan (great EL season)

Major failures:
Di Maria
Falcao
Schweinsteiger
Sanchez
Lukaku

Again, as repetition because of how important it is in our recruitment, it depends on the entire profile of the player.
 
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ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
There aren’t that many ‘world class’ players that get transferred in their prime.

with transfer fees as they have become, personally I don’t think its a valid policy. The occasional player like RVP or Pogba (although it didn’t work out) to make the real difference is the way to go.

fergie built his success on players we could develop and who were ready to take a step up. Those are the players we should be signing.

Grealish is the perfect example.
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My point wasn't that we must go and sign bunch of highly rated players. But as you said, then and there is needed if you want to win title. I created this thread mainly because (and it is just a feeling, nothing else) i think that we will not even try to go for Mbappe, Kane or Haaland when/if they become available. And any of those would put us in title contender spot
 
Bertie Wooster said:
Yeah, I was going to post most of that.

During the Fergie era we were winning trophies, but there was less of an imbalance in money and the world class players from hot climates - South America, Portugal, Spain, Italy, etc - preferred La Liga and Serie A were they could go to other huge clubs also winning trophies and based in warmer, more attractive, fashionable cities than Manchester for their wives and family (Milan, Barcelona, Madrid...).

Since the money came into the English game, we've won less trophies and had other rivals in Chelsea, Man City, etc, as well as Barcelona, Madrid, Paris. And if the money and chance of trophies is the same or even less, then Manchester is less attractive than London, Barcelona, Madrid, Paris, etc.
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Yeah. I remember at the time reading about Figo (then at Barca, quite a few years prior to his Real move) and thinking, is there even a 1% chance? Was also desperate to see that Thuram rumour come to fruition.

I still think the very best players will choose Real and Barca over every other club. Wouldn't be surprised to see Barca somehow short-term fix their finances and Real get some convenient Spanish bank loans to bankroll the next chapter.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
My point wasn't that we must go and sign bunch of highly rated players. But as you said, then and there is needed if you want to win title. I created this thread mainly because (and it is just a feeling, nothing else) i think that we will not even try to go for Mbappe, Kane or Haaland when/if they become available. And any of those would put us in title contender spot
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If Kane was available, I think we would go for him, if he wasn’t stupidly priced.

We went for Sancho, and probably will do again. Although not World Class he’s a big money signing that would make a real difference.

a world class striker is an obvious need, but options are just too expensive. I’m not sure there are too many other viable world class options across the park that we could go for?

we have shown we are happy to spend big, I just don’t think there is much availability of these types of player.
 
RashyForPM said:
Said world class player must also fit into the team, style of play and have the right personality to fit team dynamics. Sancho definitely fits these 3 traits (plays at RW, plays direct football, great lad and already mates with Rashford and the rest of our English players). Haaland is a better player than Sancho imo, but his agent is Raiola.

Looking back at our recent history of signing world class players (we’ll go with the past decade), I can make a list with far more failures than successes:

Major successes:
RvP
Zlatan (for one season)

Minor successes:
Cavani

Minor failures:
Kagawa
Mata
Pogba
Mkhitaryan (great EL season)

Major failures:
Di Maria
Falcao
Schweinsteiger
Lukaku

Again, as repetition because of how important it is in our recruitment, it depends on the entire profile of the player.
Click to expand...

Not sure Lukaku was a major failure and I don't think Mata should be on the list.
 
We’ve always preferred to sign young, upcoming or hungry players over those in their peaks or coming toward the end of their careers. It makes sense as we usually think long term. And to be fair we tend to go for the best in class young players (Rooney, Rio, Ronaldo). It’s a strategy I quite like over getting expensive short term players.
 
Have the truly great players gone to our rivals in England instead apart from maybe a couple? Or even to Bayern?
If I was a world class player, unless I had dreamt all my life to play for United / in the Premier League, I would choose sunny Spain/Italy, Spanish/Italian language, great food, similar culture, etc., too if similar money and top level football was offered in Spain/Italy as well.
 
I think our fans need to readjust their expectations.

Our club didn't sign world class players when we were on top of the game, what makes you think we can or will start doing it now?

We are just not competitive anymore. We don't have the financial investment of City or Chelsea, even if they are less sustainable than us.

Don't get it twisted, Liverpool will also struggle in the current climate and if they don't improve massively, they might be left behind next season again.

Personally, I don't think we can compete with City domestically, unless the team overachieves massively. I think only Chelsea have a strong position due to bigger squad depth and an owner who is ambitious to invest money into the club.
 
Creating world class players is a lot more effective than trying to buy them.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Its not only about money but success, truth is worldclass players want to go to clubs challenging for top titles, specially UCL. We are not even remotely close to that.
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Did not seem to hurt Real when they signed Ronaldo Kaka Benzema and Alonso.

No idea why that is the case, but United just do not have that kind of pull. So many players that the club missed out on even during the glory years, it is unreal.

Could be a case of having the trophies but not the money then and having the money but not the trophies now. Really don't know.
 
Skills said:
We're a bit of an awkward club. We're not as big as we think we are and as a club we can't really offer players much outside of money.
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I think some of the Caf really need to travel the world sometime. :lol:
 
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