Why did Ole abandon his vision?

[justsomebloke]

Firstly, who are you to tell me that it is not a good post, do you get a right to my opinion? I think you should tred carefully in how you dismiss another persons opinion. Secondly, i really do not understand what point you are trying to make in your response, you just sound angry and defensive. Finally, I couldn't care less if Ole was a player and then a manager and has spent 20 years at this club. The league 20 years ago is not the same as it is now, its called change, a concept that a lot of people struggle to come to terms with. I am also a fan, i think i know what i like to see better than you, outside this forum in the real world, there are a lot of people these days who are tired of watching this man blindlessly try to manage these players. I tend to stop at McFred, even a lampost would question the reasoning of these two together. Did you hear his press conference? His justification was they give energy, break up play and do there best. Nothing about controlling the game, getting in the box, playing the killer pass, dictating the game etc. The press conference today was further evidence that he is clueless. I did my best to understand what your point was, im pretty sure im no closer to understanding though.

Who am I to tell you? Anyone can tell you. Because you're arguing a problem you haven't even shown exists is due to Ole's background being something that it isn't, and as if there was not in any case a lot of other people than him shaping United's fitness work.

 

[justsomebloke]

Interesting point. I was under the impression that Chelsea Liverpool Spurs (under Poch) and City all do/did High Press in some shape or form - so the last four English Champions League finalists and last two English champions. But they all come in different flavours so it's a bit reductionist I realise. I don't claim to be an expert on other clubs' tactics so a more knowledgeable person can correct me.

Not sure about PSG and Bayern in 2020 as I didn't see the UCL Final. But I've heard that they did too?

I am by no means an expert either, but I don't think any of the top Spanish, Italian or French sides really play that kind of game. Not Leipzig, not Dortmund. Bayern, yes. City, Chelsea, Liverpool yes, albeit in different ways. Happy to be corrected if that is inaccurate.

 

[justsomebloke]

The point is not about expecting Ole to become a new Wenger.

It's the fact that so far in his managerial career, Ole hasn't shown a certain quality that could make him a great manager one day.

No matter from what country a manager comes from to the PL, the ones that go on to attain some sustainable level of sucess in a big club do manage to set a clear pattern of play in the squad, even if the current squad isn't quite good enough to challenge yet. The Arsenal Wenger got in 96 wasn't much different from what he had in 98 or 99 but you could see he was slightly progressing. Then from 2000 to 2004 they were really good.

When I look at Ole today, there's not a big difference to what he was doing in 2019 for example. We have signed better players, but some flaws haven't been corrected.

I think there are fairly major differences to how we play now and how we plsyed in 2019, but also some continuities. Check out Kwestys articles, link above, they're really good.

 

[MrBest]

Who am I to tell you? Anyone can tell you. Because you're arguing a problem you haven't even shown exists is due to Ole's background being something that it isn't, and as if there was not in any case a lot of other people than him shaping United's fitness work.

And again, you fail to explain any point you have and make it personal so im not sure what you are doing on this forum. I'll repeat one last time to you before you become a nobody for me, who are you to tell me or anyone else, what my opinion should be? Grow up just some bloke and become somebody.

 

[E-mal]

I am too knackered to say why but he is a shit tactician who has no idea how to coach a team to pass from the back and evade press and also how to apply a press of their own.

 

[Strelok]

We don't have the players to run and press all day long.

Ronaldo isn't gonna press, Pogba isn't gonna press, Rashford isn't gonna press, Greenwood will, Bruno will press but does it ineffectively. I don't know enough about Sancho to know if he is that sort of player. Cavani will but he's a squad player now.

To be one of those elite pressing teams, you have to work extremely hard and work as a unit. We don't do that. There was plenty of occasions on Saturday where an attacker pressed but wasn't helped by a teammate. It achieves feck all.

Agreed.

That's what I was worry about when we signed Ronaldo. I was also worry about what if other attacking players have to carry more defensive duties and sacrifice their offensive part in order to accommodate him. Some would not be happy. I know people will say Ronaldo is goat blah blah but it's not that simple. Not everyone worship him. Imo Greenwood being really selfish the other day might be a sign. Hope I'm wrong though.

 

[David_De_Heya]

In my opinion, the main issue we have seen in recent games is that there are too many players with low work-rate crammed into the team. Pogba 50% of the time (He sometimes works hard but is ineffective winning the ball) Ronaldo, Sancho, Greenwood all have low defensive work rate. That means it's easy for opposition teams to play out of defence and build attacks, and why we have ended up penned in at times against the likes of Aston Villa. A workmanlike midfield like McFred can work in a winning team (See Liverpools central midfield under Klopp) if your forward line are sharing the workload, which isn't the case at United. I am Ole in (for now), and hope he can make it work, but I think this may ultimately be the hill that Ole dies on - not signing the right personnel for how he wants to play despite having quality throughout the squad.

 

[11101]

I don't think he has abandoned it, he is just not good enough to make what is an outdated system work.

In every facet of his time here he has tried to copy SAF. If he could find the right players I'm almost certain he'd have us playing 4-4-2 again. Fast players to catch teams on the break with sustained attacks down the flanks. Trouble is SAF's time was 10-20 years ago, football has moved on. Back then you didn't have to worry so much about things like being pressed from the front and teams were not as organised as they are now. You could repeatedly attack and each time teams would leave new gaps to exploit. That doesn't happen so much anymore. Once a defence is camped in they're almost impossible to break down.

Had SAF not retired he would certainly have moved with the times but Ole is still trying to implement the 2005 version.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

When people claim 'We don't have the players to run and press all day long' I laugh to my self. People fundamentally misunderstand what pressing is really all about. Case in point, Barcelona dominated for almost a decade most of Europe with a midfield three of Busquets, xavi and iniesta. 3 short players not particular fast, strong nor quick. The absolute key to their dominance was the positions they and their team mates took off the ball whenever it was lost. Compressing the pitch in the targted area where the ball was. THAT is the true key to pressing football. For their chief aim was to reduce to 2 or less the good passing options the opposition had. Once they succeeded in that objective, because they were so good on the ball they were night impossible to play against.

Even with the players we have now we can easily become very good at pressing if t twas deliberately coached into our style of football. If our players were to be coached to always take up positions that close up passing lanes when we lost the ball, plus our defence coached to strategically push up the high defensive line, with our threat in transitions we'd become an absolute night mare to play against. In fact teams with automatism in their play are the most vulnerable to this kind of pressing. Because once you understand their favored way of starting moves you can literally head them off at the pass every time.

I think people mistook the high intensity geggen pressing developed in Gerrmany, as a counter to Barca's dominant tika tika style and press, with the ONLY way pressing can effectively be carried out. Yet in truth nothing beats the model barca used. Mastery and control of space and time off the ball. United have players in my view more than good enough to execute it, What I'm not sure is if we have the coaches to implement it

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Busquets, xavi and iniesta. 3 short players

Huh. Busquets is about 190 cm (:

Agree with your overall point though, same thing I was saying a few posts back. It's not players that can press vs. players that can't - obviously, some are naturally more inclined to do it than others, which is not the same thing. The way a team presses or doesn't press is 90% down to how the coach sets them up.

 

[Oldtraffordboy]

You can't carry players like Ronaldo, Pogba, Martial, Matic if you want to play that style.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

You can't carry players like Ronaldo, Pogba, Martial, Matic if you want to play that style.

There is no good reason for them to be carried You just have to train them to take excellent positions off the ball to close passing lanes It actually takes less physical exertion and high intensity sprinting than most people realize.Plus if you are good at not ceding it back easily you always have more than enough in the tank to do it again

 

[Strelok]

If he could find the right players I'm almost certain he'd have us playing 4-4-2 again.

He bought Bruno mate. And VDB. Both are attacking midfielders. You don't buy two CAM if you want to play 442. Then he has Martial, Ronaldo, Cavani, Greenwood but he has never ever played with two starting strikers. Don't know what made you think so.

 

[Awwal Lawal]

When people claim 'We don't have the players to run and press all day long' I laugh to my self. People fundamentally misunderstand what pressing is really all about. Case in point, Barcelona dominated for almost a decade most of Europe with a midfield three of Busquets, xavi and iniesta. 3 short players not particular fast, strong nor quick. The absolute key to their dominance was the positions they and their team mates took off the ball whenever it was lost. Compressing the pitch in the targted area where the ball was. THAT is the true key to pressing football. For their chief aim was to reduce to 2 or less the good passing options the opposition had. Once they succeeded in that objective, because they were so good on the ball they were night impossible to play against.

Even with the players we have now we can easily become very good at pressing if t twas deliberately coached into our style of football. If our players were to be coached to always take up positions that close up passing lanes when we lost the ball, plus our defence coached to strategically push up the high defensive line, with our threat in transitions we'd become an absolute night mare to play against. In fact teams with automatism in their play are the most vulnerable to this kind of pressing. Because once you understand their favored way of starting moves you can literally head them off at the pass every time.

I think people mistook the high intensity geggen pressing developed in Gerrmany, as a counter to Barca's dominant tika tika style and press, with the ONLY way pressing can effectively be carried out. Yet in truth nothing beats the model barca used. Mastery and control of space and time off the ball. United have players in my view more than good enough to execute it, What I'm not sure is if we have the coaches to implement it

First time I am hearing that someone describe Xavi, Iniesta and Busquet as not particularly Fast, Quick nor Strong because two of the triumvirate are short.

Data shows that the three players regularly in most matches during their peak cover the most distances of any player on the field.

The vision and the speed of thought of these three players coupled with their upper body strength to fend off players remains a marvel (despite their theatrics sometimes).

It wasn't just the position they take on the field, the ability to max out intense sprint over a short distance to box a player into a rushed pass is overlooked by most watchers. The three players till this day remain the epitome of technical brilliance, tactical discipline and intense work rate in my humble opinion.

 

[Luke1995]

I think there are fairly major differences to how we play now and how we plsyed in 2019, but also some continuities. Check out Kwestys articles, link above, they're really good.

I checked it. My takeaway is that the biggest continuity we've had is McFred. That can be good in some games, and really bad in others. The point: Since they are players of high energy but little technical ability or creativity, it doesn't matter how good the defence or the attack is, because the overall well being of the team's performance depends alot on what kind of day the midfield is having (since most plays go through the midfield one way or another).

Perhaps, giving Matic more games would help. But i'm pretty sure Redcafe has lost any faith on him. And Pogba can't defend, only attack. In that sense, Ole is in a tough spot.

 

[Adnan]

First time I am hearing that someone describe Xavi, Iniesta and Busquet as not particularly Fast, Quick nor Strong because two of the triumvirate are short.

Data shows that the three players regularly in most matches during their peak cover the most distances of any player on the field.

The vision and the speed of thought of these three players coupled with their upper body strength to fend off players remains a marvel (despite their theatrics sometimes).

It wasn't just the position they take on the field, the ability to max out intense sprint over a short distance to box a player into a rushed pass is overlooked by most watchers. The three players till this day remain the epitome of technical brilliance, tactical discipline and intense work rate in my humble opinion.

This. Good post.

 

[11101]

He bought Bruno mate. And VDB. Both are attacking midfielders. You don't buy two CAM if you want to play 442. Then he has Martial, Ronaldo, Cavani, Greenwood but he has never ever played with two starting strikers. Don't know what made you think so.

That's what I mean by if he had the players. We have a lot of square pegs in round holes. Ole loves the fast attackers out wide and two midfielders controlling the middle, hallmarks of 442, but those players don't exist anymore. He's trying to get us to play 442 tactics with a 4231 formation and players.

 

[Red00012]

Ronaldo , Martial , Cavani , Matic , Mata is why

 

[Strelok]

That's what I mean by if he had the players. We have a lot of square pegs in round holes. Ole loves the fast attackers out wide and two midfielders controlling the middle, hallmarks of 442, but those players don't exist anymore. He's trying to get us to play 442 tactics with a 4231 formation and players.

I know we look a bit like 442 sometime recently when Bruno moving up but it's not a 442 mate. If you look at his heatmap. And you usually play 442 with traditional winger who cross not cut inside. Ole love fast attackers out wide but none is a traditional winger. Even SAF by his end here has moved from 442 to a variety of 442 433 4231.

 

[11101]

I know we look a bit like 442 sometime recently when Bruno moving up but it's not a 442 mate. If you look at his heatmap. And you usually play 442 with traditional winger who cross not cut inside. Ole love fast attackers out wide but none is a traditional winger. Even SAF by his end here has moved from 442 to a variety of 442 433 4231.

I'm not saying we play 442...
I'm saying if Ole had the right players we would.

 

[David_De_Heya]

In my opinion, the main issue we have seen in recent games is that there are too many players with low work-rate crammed into the team. Pogba 50% of the time (He sometimes works hard but is ineffective winning the ball) Ronaldo, Sancho, Greenwood all have low defensive work rate. That means it's easy for opposition teams to play out of defence and build attacks, and why we have ended up penned in at times against the likes of Aston Villa. A workmanlike midfield like McFred can work in a winning team (See Liverpools central midfield under Klopp) if your forward line are sharing the workload, which isn't the case at United. I am Ole in (for now), and hope he can make it work, but I think this may ultimately be the hill that Ole dies on - not signing the right personnel for how he wants to play despite having quality throughout the squad.

The difference tonight when Cavani and Lingard were on, pressing Villarreal high up the pitch was night and day.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

First time I am hearing that someone describe Xavi, Iniesta and Busquet as not particularly Fast, Quick nor Strong because two of the triumvirate are short.

Read what Xavi himself says of them. None of them were fast or strong. Their strength was in controlling space and time. That is the true key to things like pressing. Their entire philosophy was to deny opponents the space and the time to use the ball freely of Barca lost it. Compressing space to reduce the opponents time on the ball. Then controlling space by locking all good passing lanes.

Data shows that the three players regularly in most matches during their peak cover the most distances of any player on the field.

Covering the most distance has nothing to do with being fast or quick. That has everything to do with stamina. Those fellas were Uber fit.

 

[Adnan]

Read what Xavi himself says of them. None of them were fast or strong. Their strength was in controlling space and time. That is the true key to things like pressing. Their entire philosophy was to deny opponents the space and the time to use the ball freely of Barca lost it. Compressing space to reduce the opponents time on the ball. Then controlling space by locking all good passing lanes.

Covering the most distance has nothing to do with being fast or quick. That has everything to do with stamina. Those fellas were Uber fit.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. What we know about the Barca team you're talking about is that they controlled games on the ball, and off the ball. And you don't need to be fast or physically powerful to become effective at applying coordinated pressure. And Barca did that by controlling zones on the pitch whilst maintaining a strong positional sense. And you can't control designated zones/spaces without having been taught to have a strong positional game. Which is what Guardiola's strategy is, to exert control and maintain a strong positional sense all over the pitch. And in such a setup, if the back line is high (on the half way line) and the players at your disposal are well drilled to control zones and maintain a strong positional sense, then applying pressure isn't difficult.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

What we know about the Barca team you're talking about is that they controlled games on the ball, and off the ball. And you don't need to be fast or physically powerful to become effective at applying coordinated pressure. And Barca did that by controlling zones on the pitch whilst maintaining a strong positional sense. And you can't control designated zones/spaces without having been taught to have a strong positional game.

You have literally said the same thing I have been saying with different words.

Yet you claim this (I'm not sure what you're arguing here.)

If your coaching focus is to deny opponents time on the ball and space to play when they have it by coordinated off the ball positioning that achieves the stated objective. One can achieve very effective pressing with out exerting exhuberant effort like with gegen pressing. Pep does it to dominate the ball. Others use it to hurt teams in transitions by luring them into a trap then springing the trap.

That is why I don't buy the lazy argument having the likes of Pogba, Bruno or CR7 means we can't play that way. In my view its strictly our coaching that stops it.


.

 

[Adnan]

You have literally said the same thing I have been saying with different words.

Yet you claim this (I'm not sure what you're arguing here.)

If your coaching focus is to deny opponents time on the ball and space to play when they have it by coordinated off the ball positioning that achieves the stated objective. One can achieve very effective pressing with out exerting exhuberant effort like with gegen pressing. Pep does it to dominate the ball. Others use it to hurt teams in transitions by luring them into a trap then springing the trap.

That is why I don't buy the lazy argument having the likes of Pogba, Bruno or CR7 means we can't play that way. In my view its strictly our coaching that stops it.


.

Gegen pressing is basically the counter press, which basically means to counter the counter attack. And it's something the Barca team in question utilised quite often and Guardiola even spoke about it and said he was worried about his CBs to such a extent that when his team lost the ball, chaos would ensue in trying to get it back (The 6 second rule) as quickly as possible due to the vulnerabilities in the last line of defence.

Me not being sure about what your actual point was, isnt me making a claim but rather being unsure of what you were saying. Because from your post you seem to be insinuating that Barca didn't use the gegen press which basically means the counter press in German. And they did utilise the counter press like I've explained above. The 6 second rule at Barca and nowadays at City it seems Guardiola has tweaked it slightly by going man to man to force the opponent to launch it long where his CBs will be waiting and expected to win the aerial ball. Klopp does it slightly different but that's for another day.

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

I don't buy into the idea we don't have the players to do a high press successfully, if you're a strong enough manager you will get them to do it otherwise you put them on the bench and put someone else in who will.

That's if that's what he wants to do anymore. I think he's scrapped that idea, which is a shame, and is telling our forwards to do as little defending/pressing as possible to save energy for quick counters. When someone like Bruno presses on his own, or Cavani, that's just because that's the type of player they are and will run themselves into the ground, can't say the same for the rest of them which tells me Ole is happy with that.

 

[morbidsaint]

He is just to afraid to lose. I completely agree with posters who said that. I think he has shown against City, PSG, Liverpool and others that he has good knowledge of this game, but i have felt ever since his second season he became to pragmatic and scared. I can understand that with the UK shitty press up your ass all year long, but sooner or later he has to just let that go and set these players free. Find us a Rice type of player, and we are good to go toe to toe with any team if you ask me. You just got to have to balls to go do it. Attack.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Gegen pressing is basically the counter press, which basically means to counter the counter attack. And it's something the Barca team in question utilised quite often and Guardiola even spoke about it and said he was worried about his CBs to such a extent that when his team lost the ball, chaos would ensue in trying to get it back (The 6 second rule) as quickly as possible due to the vulnerabilities in the last line of defence.

Me not being sure about what your actual point was, isnt me making a claim but rather being unsure of what you were saying. Because from your post you seem to be insinuating that Barca didn't use the gegen press which basically means the counter press in German. And they did utilise the counter press like I've explained above. The 6 second rule at Barca and nowadays at City it seems Guardiola has tweaked it slightly by going man to man to force the oppononent to launch it long where his CBs will be waiting and expected to win the aerial ball. Klopp does it slightly different but that's for another day.

In my view you are conflating the term gegen press with how the tactic is actually employed in practice.

You should check out what Klopp says about Gegen pressing. He uses it directly to create chances. He considers it more reliable than any creative playmaker
That is the ultimate goal for his style of pressing. He doesn't even need possession to use it. He lures opponents into pressing traps to hurt them in the resulting transitions with them out of position. Infact for him the more the opponent has the ball the better his tactic works.

For Pep his goal instead is to dominate the ball and control use of it with pressing. His 6 second rule is to ensure 1) his side can't get caught of position as they position themselves to dominate the ball b) consolidate on the ball dominance.

In my view you are conflating the point at which their objectives over lap. With a Pep using the gegen press in the way a Klopp describes it.

 

[clarkydaz]

He is just to afraid to lose. I completely agree with posters who said that. I think he has shown against City, PSG, Liverpool and others that he has good knowledge of this game, but i have felt ever since his second season he became to pragmatic and scared. I can understand that with the UK shitty press up your ass all year long, but sooner or later he has to just let that go and set these players free. Find us a Rice type of player, and we are good to go toe to toe with any team if you ask me. You just got to have to balls to go do it. Attack.

Pretty much when he was given the job

 

[Adnan]

In my view you are conflating the term gegen press with how the tactic is actually employed in practice.

You should check out what Klopp says about Gegen pressing. He uses it directly to create chances. That is the ultimate goal for his style of pressing. He doesn't even need possession to use it. He lures opponents into pressing traps to hurt them in the resulting transitions with then out of position. Infact for him the more the opponent has the ball the better his tactic works.

For Pep his goal instead is to dominate the ball and control use of it with pressing. His 6 second rule is to ensure 1) his side can't get caught of position as they position themselves to dominate the ball b) consolidate on the ball dominance.

In my view you are conflating the point at which their objectives over lap. With a Pep using the gegen press in the way a Klopp describes it.

It seems you're very confused here and don't know the difference between a high press and the counter press. Of course you don't need possession when initiating the gegen press (counter press). That is a strategy which is used to counter the counter which high pressing teams use when losing possession. And luring opponents into pressing traps isn't counter pressing but rather a conventional press which can be initiated in a high or even in a low block like Mourinho has used in the past.

And no, the 6 second rule isn't what you're describing because the 6 second rule comes into play when the team has lost position and has become vulnerable to a very dangerous counter. The 6 second rule was Guardiola's belief that the opponent was most vulnerable to a short intensive burst of pressure in the 6 seconds immediately after winning the the ball.

I'm not conflating anything here but rather you're confused between different types of pressing methods in different scenarios,

 

[justsomebloke]

I don't buy into the idea we don't have the players to do a high press successfully, if you're a strong enough manager you will get them to do it otherwise you put them on the bench and put someone else in who will.

That's if that's what he wants to do anymore. I think he's scrapped that idea, which is a shame, and is telling our forwards to do as little defending/pressing as possible to save energy for quick counters. When someone like Bruno presses on his own, or Cavani, that's just because that's the type of player they are and will run themselves into the ground, can't say the same for the rest of them which tells me Ole is happy with that.

Once again, three words: Mid block press. Read this: The Different Tactical Eras of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer: Part Five - by Pauly Kwestel - Kwest Thoughts (substack.com)

 

[GBBQ]

I don't buy into the idea we don't have the players to do a high press successfully, if you're a strong enough manager you will get them to do it otherwise you put them on the bench and put someone else in who will.

It seems though that the players least effective at pressing (Bruno, Pogba, Ronaldo) are our most creative players so i don't see them being benched.

 

[Desert Eagle]

If his vision is a high energy pressing 4-3-3 then the players he picks shows he has no clue how to make that system function at the top level. Bruno, Pogba, Mctom supporting a Ronaldo, Greenwood, Sancho front three is asking to be repeatedly torn to shreds out of possession which we were last night.

 

[justsomebloke]

Below I've snipped in the points made on pressing in Kwestys five articles, which I keep coming back to here because they actually provide very major insights on many of the issues posters are grappling with on this thread (and often quite speculatively). Pressing is just one of the topics of course, if you have the time, reading the whole articles is advisable. Anyway, whether you agree with his conclusions or not, at least he puts the issue on a more informed footing, by relating how the use of pressing had developed under OGS to the overall tactical and squad challenges of the team.


Phase 1: December 2018 (Cardiff away) - February 2019 (PSG home)
The Different Tactical Eras of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer: Part One - by Pauly Kwestel - Kwest Thoughts (substack.com)

Solskjaer took over and quickly settled on his first XI, setting them up in a 4-3-3 high pressing system that was in vogue at the time.
......
Solskjaer had United pressing relentlessly. According to the United data and stats account @UtdArena, United’s pressing intensity went from one of the worst in Europe under Mourinho to the best in Europe.

The logic here was simple. If you’re struggling to defend in front of your own goal, then defend higher up the pitch and try to prevent the ball from getting near your goal in the first place.

The blueprint for this new United was obvious. Win the ball high up the pitch and use Pogba’s passing to quickly get it to Marcus Rashford running in behind.

Phase 2: February 2019 (Crystal Palace away) - May 2019 (Cardiff home)
The Different Tactical Eras of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer: Part Two - by Pauly Kwestel - Kwest Thoughts (substack.com)


....Those 45 minutes came in the first leg of United’s Champions League tie against Paris Saint Germaine when both Jesse Lingard and Anthony Martial hobbled off with muscle injuries. Neither one of theme had been lighting up the goal scoring charts but their work rate and pressing were integral to United’s success.

Replacing them were the older legs of Alexis Sanchez and Juan Mata. Two players who very much lacked the requisite pace to press the way Solskjaer wanted. The result was United never stood a chance in the second half and should have considered themselves lucky to have escaped only 2-0 down.
.........
With his players worn down, injured, or just naturally lacking pace United couldn’t press as much as they used. With a team comprised of a bunch of bang average players, they couldn’t do much of anything.

Phase 3: October 2019 - January 2020 (Norwich home)
The Different Tactical Eras of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer: Part Three - by Pauly Kwestel - Kwest Thoughts (substack.com)


Solskjaer may have wanted to spend the season building the foundations of a set style of play, but instead he was forced to constantly alter the plans as he tried to paper over another crack. This was also a team that needed to grow into themselves.

When Pogba went down Solskjaer responded by ramping up United’s pressing levels (from 169.25 per 90 to 180.33 per 90) through the Manchester City match. Their press effectiveness was erratic at best, with a pressure regain rate (per fbref) of just 26.52 percent.

Heading into December Solskjaer knew he had to scale that back so as to not burn out his squad. Following the derby at the Ethihad, United scaled back their pressing to just 157.30 per 90 (through the end of this ‘era’ in January). It was no longer an all out press, but rather they became much more selective in where and when they pressed, resulting in a rise of how successful the press was with a regain rate of 30.48 percent.

While pressing overall went down, they focused far more on pressing in the attacking third as they attempted to win the ball back high up the field to quickly create chances. Prior to December 21.90 percent of their presses came in the final third, after the City match that rose to 26.75 percent, but United still struggled to turn those turnovers into goals.

Phase 4: June 2020 (Tottenham away) - August 2020 (Sevilla)
The Different Tactical Eras of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer: Part Four - by Pauly Kwestel - Kwest Thoughts (substack.com)

Naught on pressing

Phase 5: Start of 2020-21 season - January 2021
The Different Tactical Eras of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer: Part Five - by Pauly Kwestel - Kwest Thoughts (substack.com)

Ole Gunnar’s United have always been a counter attacking side. Not a sit deep, absorb pressure, and go on full field counter attacks, but more of a transition based side. Whenever and wherever you win the ball back, look to get in behind immediately. As United found out last year that strategy won’t work if teams just sit deep and don’t give you any space to run in behind.

This season(ie, last season), instead of focusing on figuring out how to unlock a deep sitting defense, Solskjaer has focused on trying to create space in behind a team that wants to sit deep.

OGS’s solution was to (further) scale back United’s press and create a mid-block press. Instead of pressing high up the pitch (and tiring his players out even more than this grueling schedule already is), United encouraged teams to advance the ball to midfield or just past it.

The defense wouldn’t drop deep, keeping a small distance between the back four and the front forwards making things very compact.

To get them there, United would give the illusion of a press, pushing the front four of the 4-2-3-1 all the way high, but they wouldn’t actually put on a lot of pressure. The forwards were high but leaving the midfield and defense a bit further back. This discouraged opponents from trying to play long balls in behind the press, and instead try to play through it.

That’s exactly what United want you do, as once teams were able to push their midfielders and defenders up to midfield they’d go to work to launch their press.

The game against Leeds provided some great examples of this.

Rashford gets over to the left wing but doesn’t apply pressure. Only after Leeds pass the ball to midfield do Fred and Shaw push up to apply pressure, creating a turnover and allowing Bruno to run at their defense.

This lead to the first goal. Later in the first half you saw it again. As soon as Leeds got the ball over the midfield, Fred starts pressuring them, with Dan James playing an active role in getting back to win the ball back and start a break.

Admittedly, Leeds isn’t the best example as their man-marking pressing system was always going to leave space to run in behind them. But Leeds aren’t the only team United have done this to. The mid-block press has also managed to create these transitions against Newcastle, the second half of West Ham, Aston Villa, and Sheffield United. All teams United dropped points against the year before.
..............

Furthermore, recently Paul Pogba has developed a reputation to not being ‘press resistant.’ This was likely brought on by the mistake he made against Southampton last season but in reality it’s far more of a myth than fact. Nevertheless when Pogba is on the pitch, teams are going after him and pressing him more than any of United’s other midfielders.

That’s something that’s pretty welcomed by United (and Pogba), as more defenders pushing up to press him just gives him more space to pass, and more space for Bruno Fernandes to facilitate the attack. It’s a big reason why lately United are getting far more runs in behind when Pogba and Nemanja Matic are the midfield pair, rather than McTominay and Fred.
.........
Being able to run in behind was something that just didn’t happen when United played teams that sat deep last season. The mid-block press has done wonders in solving that problem along with keeping Pogba’s passing ability on the pitch. By loosely pushing their forwards up but leaving the defenders back, United are encouraging their opponents to actually play football against them - and it’s no surprise United are then winning.
.........

Their struggles this season have been against the big teams (Chelsea, City, PSG) who have simply played much more conservatively and challenged the McTominay-Fred pair to beat them (that pair gets pressed less than any other United midfield combination), which they typically struggle to do given their lack of passing ability.
....

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has always wanted to play quick attacking football at Manchester United. Injuries and circumstance have forced him to come up with different ways to go about it but this is his identity.

The mid-block press is the latest wrinkle but I’m sure we’re not done. Eventually he’ll sign an actual right winger and things will evolve again. An injury to the wrong player could cause further changes in the more immediate future.

 

[wolvored]

Interesting thread actually. When he first started he was much more gung-ho. You could see he wanted us to play 'the United way'. He even went after more goals when we were up - something that felt completely alien at the time.

Hard to know what's happened. Is it his tactics, or are the players just less responsive to him? Either way, it's probably him.

Perhaps he's been affected by the pressure of having the job full time. Things took a wild turn almost as soon as he was properly hired. It would make sense. The original priority as temp manager was instilling a good feeling amongst the players and the fans and that was it really. There wasn't so much pressure to win.

When he was interim it was obvious that he would play that way as he hadnt got to worry about the consequences where we were in the league. Deadwood Woodward said when he took the interm role we are going to have some fun until the end of the season.
Whn he was given a contract and therefore the responsibility of running the club was when he changed, as he was probably scared of fecking up and getting the sack.

 

[clarkydaz]

i thought we just bought a right winger, and play him on the left

 

[wolvored]

He bought Bruno mate. And VDB. Both are attacking midfielders. You don't buy two CAM if you want to play 442. Then he has Martial, Ronaldo, Cavani, Greenwood but he has never ever played with two starting strikers. Don't know what made you think so.

But he doesnt want to play VDB though. I cant figure out why he bought him and not use him. A mystery.

 

[justsomebloke]

When he was interim it was obvious that he would play that way as he hadnt got to worry about the consequences where we were in the league. Deadwood Woodward said when he took the interm role we are going to have some fun until the end of the season.
Whn he was given a contract and therefore the responsibility of running the club was when he changed, as he was probably scared of fecking up and getting the sack.

That's a fairly speculative and implausible explanation. The injuries to key players that occurred around that time makes for a much more convincing explanation for the shift in pressing, in my opinion.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

But he doesnt want to play VDB though. I cant figure out why he bought him and not use him. A mystery.

Cover for Bruno and others. Also, Donny has been bad. Double whammy means little game time

 

[Strelok]

But he doesnt want to play VDB though. I cant figure out why he bought him and not use him. A mystery.

Imo we bought him to replace Pogba and to be a backup for Bruno, everyone was expecting Pogba to leave back then. Anyway we made a mistake signing him and the sooner he leaves the better for both sides I think.