Why didn't we give it Carrick until the end of the season?

[MancunianAngels]

Let me explain

Carrick staying until May would have meant Rangnick goes straight in as Director of Football/Sporting Director/Consultant (or whatever position we're going to give him in the summer.)

Carrick wouldn't have been the long term solution (similar to Ole perhaps...) but it would have given Ragnick time to perhaps see what the issues are throughout the club?

At the moment, he's already looking tired and you'd have to wonder if he just walks at the end of the season. Leaving the club in a bigger mess than in April 2014, December 2018 or November 2021.

In terms of what's happening on the pitch, whatever you think ot the overpaid muppets currently wearing the red of Manchester United, such a huge change in style can't be good for the players in the middle of a season. A reset in the summer when we know the long term futures of Pogba etc alongside knowing whether we are in the Champions League would be much easier when Ralf hasn't been involved in the thick of it.

 

[JebelSherif]

At the moment, he's already looking tired and you'd have to wonder if he just walks at the end of the season. Leaving the club in a bigger mess than in April 2014, December 2018 or November 2021.

Why would he 'just walk at the end of the season'? The club will have approached him during the end of Ole's days and he will have said no way would he come to England, to Manchester for just a few months.... so to sweeten the deal they said come as interim manager and then you get 2 years on top in a consultancy role. He ain't going to walk away from that and the £££s that go with it.

Of course the problem comes from a dip in performance - tonight was his 1st defeat to be fair. But the trouble is, with the London clubs (Spurs/Arsenal and West Ham) all going well there is a serious worry that top 4 wont be achieved. Usually that would mean contract termination for the Manager - its been a clause in all contracts since SAF. But is that clause going to apply to Ralph given he came in part-way through the season? I doubt it.

If Utd. don't achieve top-4 they will struggle to recruit top players and indeed a big name manager to take over from the interim Rangnick. Furthermore, who would want to come in knowing a consultant is overseeing you, especially one who hasn't achieved the base target that you will have to meet, because if you don't you are gone, after maybe 1 year, whilst he remains for the two!

 

[Eyepopper]

But wait, coaching was the problem, and bringing in the "godfather of gengen press", who despite never managing a top European side or winning anything of note, was the fool proof answer to returning Utd to greatness, right? I mean RIGHT?

 

[MUFC OK]

Carrick’s 3 games in charge look liks the best we’ve played all season - in 3 very tough fixtures. This thought is crept into my mind too. The second he got a bad result fans would have been up in arms though.

 

[sullydnl]

Because Carrick had never managed before in his life and along with McKenna ran the day-to-day of the sub-par coaching that had helped see the team implode. What would have been the point in firing Solskjaer only to keep Carrick in place? We didn't want the season to be an automatic write-off, which that would have been.

And no, we don't have to wonder whether Rangnick will walk at the end of the season. There's zero reason for him to. He signed onto this interim job knowing we were in a mess, knowing we had to quite radically change how we play and knowing the plan was for him to move upstairs into the consultancy role at the end of the season anyway. Zero has changed.

 

[bond19821982]

Because however bad we are now, Carrick is still an unproven manager who may or may not take us forward. It's a bigger risk than Ralf.

Stop this fecking non sense. Let's bring back Giggs too, since he won 2 last time we gave it to him.

 

[moses]

We needed a change of approach. If there is a deep and long term malaise there, someone from outside is probably best to fix it.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Because we thought giving Rangnick 6 months to coach the team would give him a better view to what it needs once he's moved up in his director role. Which is a better approach in my view.

We need to think long term, we have way too many holes and weaknesses as a team to be thinking about major titles right now. I'd say give the german guy who's succeed in other teams till the end of the season and let him decide whats next once he's in his upper role. I trust him more than I trust our current board.

 

[tentan]

We would've lost the previous 6 games under him

 

[Red the Bear]

The idea was exactly that, for Ralf to be in the thick of and get to know the players more intimately so he'd be able to make the most sound decisions afterwards. Now whether that was the right choice to make to begin with is an entirely different proposition

 

[Dominos]

The issue with Carrick was he was part of the coaching staff who the players were complaining about in their leaks to the media. If they thought he was a poor coach when Ole was in charge, are the players going to suddenly change their mind when he's manager? The decent results in his 3 game spell are likely nothing more than a bit of positive variance in a tiny sample size.

Carrick’s 3 games in charge look liks the best we’ve played all season - in 3 very tough fixtures. This thought is crept into my mind too. The second he got a bad result fans would have been up in arms though.

You're being results oriented to be fair, and realistically we've been so bad in every game this season it's not hard to be the best of a terrible bunch of performances.

We played well in the last 20 minutes against Villareal but couldn't pass the ball before that. Absolutely dreadful against Chelsea and got battered and scraped an undeserved point. Played a 50/50 game against Arsenal that could have gone either way, who aren't very good themselves.

 

[sullydnl]

Also whoever the next manager will be, their ideas will be closer to Rangnick's than to whatever we were seeing from Solskjaer/Carrick, because we're talking about pretty fundamental building blocks that most top teams share. Whether it's Ten Hag, Poch or whoever, they'll want those clearer structures, they'll want more physicality and they'll want better pressing.

If you're going to have a mess of a season you might as well spend it trying to move vaguely in the direction of top-level football rather than staying as far adrift from what top sides try to do as we were. Better to let Rangnick deal with some of those early growing pains rather than passing it all to the next manager because you stuck with the same coaching team for the rest of the season.

 

[MUFC OK]

Also whoever the next manager will be, their ideas will be closer to Rangnick's than to whatever we were seeing from Solskjaer/Carrick, because we're talking about pretty fundamental building blocks that most top teams share. Whether it's Ten Hag, Poch or whoever, they'll want those clearer structures, they'll want more physicality and they'll want better pressing.

If you're going to have a mess of a season you might as well spend it trying to move vaguely in the direction of top-level football rather than staying as far adrift from what top sides try to do as we were. Better to let Rangnick deal with some of those early growing pains rather than passing it all to the next manager because you stuck with the same coaching team for the rest of the season.

Good post, and I hope you are right. Agree that intensity and physicality are sorely missing, however I would prefer a possession focused pressing model, probably closer to ETH. The constant turnovers are a huge problem for us and at the top level that dictates how much control you have over the game.

 

[Sky1981]

We need to think long term...

Complains 5 match into the new manager...

 

[Presto]

Also whoever the next manager will be, their ideas will be closer to Rangnick's than to whatever we were seeing from Solskjaer/Carrick, because we're talking about pretty fundamental building blocks that most top teams share. Whether it's Ten Hag, Poch or whoever, they'll want those clearer structures, they'll want more physicality and they'll want better pressing.

If you're going to have a mess of a season you might as well spend it trying to move vaguely in the direction of top-level football rather than staying as far adrift from what top sides try to do as we were. Better to let Rangnick deal with some of those early growing pains rather than passing it all to the next manager because you stuck with the same coaching team for the rest of the season.

Mind you literally nobody in the world football today runs this bizarre 4222 system, it doesn't make sense to try to fit players who are all unfamiliar with this system in just 6 months before switching to another one when a long term manager comes

 

[ryansgirl]

Because however bad we are now, Carrick is still an unproven manager who may or may not take us forward. It's a bigger risk than Ralf.

Stop this fecking non sense. Let's bring back Giggs too, since he won 2 last time we gave it to him.

In a nutshell. I loved Michael Carrick as a player and like him as a person but he doesn't have the objectivity to bring to this situation as well as the fact of being unproven. I think United's strategy now has to be centred in outsiders who can perceive everything that is wrong and needs to be fixed - and have the guts to do it as well.

 

[Alek M]

We needed a new start. He was an extension of Ole. We needed someone with “modern” way of footbal, tactical genius, but also one that command the dressing room.
Don’t think we got either.

 

[Shunty]

Let’s open a forum about the current manager 5 games in and propose a question as to why we didn’t give it to Michael carrick who has been at the club all through its sheer downfall under previous regimes and ask why it was given to the godfather of the modern day press instead.

It just goes to show that you can’t unteach stupid can you. Let’s hope the glazers haven’t noticed you have opened this forum cause they’ll invite you to be on fans advisory board as you sir are exactly what they are looking for.

 

[AneRu]

Because it would have turned out like Ole's post-new manager bubble collapse. The issues here have nothing to do with the manager, the squad is flawed structurally, mentally and technically. It reflects a squad built by four different managers with no sense of purpose or direction.

We don't have a competent DM or RB, thats a structural flaw. Players like Sancho, Rashford, Bruno etc lack belief and confidence that mental and then you have players like McTominay, Maguire amongst others who simply don't have the technical or physical attributes to compete in this league because they fail to do the basic stuff expected at this level consistently.

On top of all that we have the political pressure of playing Ronaldo even if he is not suited to do it in this league and for a flawed team like ours. We don't move the ball well or create enough chances to sustain an Inzaghi like type of poacher in this league. We need more from him and at his age he just doesn't have more to give. Thekre we pander to his ego the ingrained the malaise gets.

 

[Greck]

Oh lord, here we go. "Issues have nothing to do with the manager who brought the players, it's the players who are the problem". So why was he even given all that time and money? 3 years was a lot of time to have built nothing. I can't believe people are still holding vigils for his cause.

 

[::sonny::]

Under Carrick I’ve seen the best during this season

 

[devilish]

Carrick had a huge say in the building and managing of this unbalanced shitfest of a team filled with prima donnas who can't be bothered doing the running.

 

[justsomebloke]

Carrick’s 3 games in charge look liks the best we’ve played all season - in 3 very tough fixtures. This thought is crept into my mind too. The second he got a bad result fans would have been up in arms though.

Did it though. Those were games where we tightened up defensively, which was a relief and an obvious necessity given the calamities that went before, but they were not by any stretch of imagination strong performances. We generally created almost nothing, and looked like a well-drilled bottom team. No way was that "the best we've played all season". Not that there's a lot to choose from, but I'd say the Leeds and Spurs games were the best we've played this season.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Funny, I literally used the words "modern football fan" in my last post in another thread, and here I am again wanting to use those words again.

As if three matches makes Carrick a qualified football manager. It's the chaotic, inconsistent and unpredictable nature of our players performances that got us those wins, not a tactical masterclass by Michael Carrick.

 

[horsechoker]

Carrick is the next Bobby Robson, he'll go to Newcastle and win the Premier League while we get relegated with -69 points

 

[M Bison]

We wanted him to stay on didnt we? I'm sure he said he'd been offered a role in the new regime, which would have kept him involved. I can see why he didnt want to stay on, fans had been calling for him and McKenna to go, Keane said on Sky that all the backroom staff should leave with Ole etc.

As to why we didnt offer him the role until the end of the season, i'd say thats fairly obvious personally. Imagine the fan reaction after how it played out with Ole! This forum was (in the main) over the moon when Ralf was appointed.

 

[Judas]

Can't believe this is an actual way of thinking.

We're actually trying something different, finally, and people are now back to wanting us to continue the stale backwards approach.

 

[CloneMC16]

Carrick at the very least seemed to understand that playing 3 midfielders is quite helpful.

They were never going to give Carrick the job until the end of the season. Fans were already complaining about him and the rest of our coaches having no experience. There would have been a pretty big backlash to that decision.

 

[Nordmore]

Under Carrick I’ve seen the best during this season

Just a bit curious may I ask when?

 

[::sonny::]

Just a bit curious may I ask when?

Villarreal, chelsea, Arsenal

 

[wolvored]

Let me explain

Carrick staying until May would have meant Rangnick goes straight in as Director of Football/Sporting Director/Consultant (or whatever position we're going to give him in the summer.)

Carrick wouldn't have been the long term solution (similar to Ole perhaps...) but it would have given Ragnick time to perhaps see what the issues are throughout the club?

At the moment, he's already looking tired and you'd have to wonder if he just walks at the end of the season. Leaving the club in a bigger mess than in April 2014, December 2018 or November 2021.

In terms of what's happening on the pitch, whatever you think ot the overpaid muppets currently wearing the red of Manchester United, such a huge change in style can't be good for the players in the middle of a season. A reset in the summer when we know the long term futures of Pogba etc alongside knowing whether we are in the Champions League would be much easier when Ralf hasn't been involved in the thick of it.

More than likely by now we would have reverted to Oleball and lost a couple of games playing like we did last night and be saying why didn't we give it to XXX until the end of the year, Carrick was part of the problem under Ole etc etc

 

[2 man midfield]

That would’ve been met with an insane backlash, and would’ve been evidence of ‘how badly the club is run’ yada yada. We’re doing the right thing, and one more performance just like countless others we’ve seen in the last 8 years doesn’t mean the guy we appointed 5 games ago is just as clueless. It will take time.

 

[Eli Zee]

Because hindsight is 20/20

 

[VP89]

The scapegoating of our interim manager is hilarious

Such daft posts in the past few days.

 

[Giggsyking]

In terms of what's happening on the pitch, whatever you think ot the overpaid muppets currently wearing the red of Manchester United, such a huge change in style can't be good for the players in the middle of a season. A reset in the summer when we know the long term futures of Pogba etc alongside knowing whether we are in the Champions League would be much easier when Ralf hasn't been involved in the thick of it.

They just have to accept any style they are asked to do and stop being spoilt kids. Every club in the world changed a manager at some point and the manager changed the style.

 

[justsomebloke]

Villarreal, chelsea, Arsenal

And you thought we looked in those games like a team that was going places?

Not that I was complaining - we were coming off a 4-1 drubbing by Watford, and seeing a team that could largely keep the opposition at bay was a huge relief and a necessary first step. But again, in the first two games especially we had basically no attacking game. Arsenal was a little better, but then our hand was forced by falling behind and we did not actually dominate the game. Where's the pathway from that to where we want to be?

 

[VanDeBank]

Ralf would never have been giving a consultancy job if he wasn't to become interim. It was just extra money and another job to lure him away from his old one. And no, he isn't going to be our DoF. He's just going to give advice, which our incompetent board won't take seriously especially if he doesn't do a good job as an interim.

Carrick has 0 credentials to be manager for a top team.

Our football was quite shite under him as well. Understandable given the lack of time, but why even give him a chance if he's inexperienced?

 

[padzilla]

This is some revisionism, it's far too early to write Rangnick off and giving it to another club legend after the mess Ole left us in would be asking for trouble and then some.

 

[::sonny::]

And you thought we looked in those games like a team that was going places?

Not that I was complaining - we were coming off a 4-1 drubbing by Watford, and seeing a team that could largely keep the opposition at bay was a huge relief and a necessary first step. But again, in the first two games especially we had basically no attacking game. Arsenal was a little better, but then our hand was forced by falling behind and we did not actually dominate the game. Where's the pathway from that to where we want to be?

Great results in that 3 games, I’m sure that now they couldn’t repeat an away win against Villarreal, a draw against chelsea and a win against Arsenal. Not a chance

 

[Rocksy]

This is daft. Who’s to say these players wouldn’t have just lost interest a few more games into Carrick? They’re the issue. I don’t think Rangnick is anything like Klopp/Tuchel level as a coach but longer term I think he’ll be good if he’s given real power over recruitment and (probably more importantly) outgoings. No chance Carrick would get top 4 now that Arsenal and Tottenham are on it and Moyes has got West Ham back in form. A more sensible question was why not get Conte straight after the Liverpool thrashing?