Why do ole & players think a draw is an acceptable result

Giggsy13

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I don't think it's reasonable or fair at all. You don't know what he was trying to do or not, and it's all too easy to just make whatever assumptions you want. It's fair to raise the question, but neither you or anybody else around here can answer it. General plausibility would suggest that they weren't content with a point yesterday - I mean, why would they be? They're a much better team than Palace, dropping two points can't easily be afforded in the fight for 2nd place/top 4, and they all know very well that no one else is going to see that as anything other than a fiasco. And in any case, it's not like there's not better things to worry about than conjectural judgments about underlying character flaws. The team currently plays far below its usual level - what's wrong?

Moaning about low standards or cowardice may provide a simple and emotionally satisfying explanation for frustrated fans, but it illuminates nothing. It's an explanation that can't be proven or disproven, which makes it comfy to entertain, but also useless. It doesn't bring you anywhere. If you're going to simply believe the manager and the team lacks an ambition to win, well then, nothing else matters much. Good performances and results will be just a mirage - as soon as there's anything real on the line, they'll be certain to fold. Training won't fix it, rest won't fix it, tactics won't fix it, and new signings won't fix it either, at least not just a few of them. You just put yourself mentally in a place where you assume it's all gone to shite, and if you do that, that's all you're going to see (obviously, I don't mean YOU in particular here).

And in any case, it would make far more sense to assume the players and the manager care deeply whether they win, draw or lose, are pretty desperate to achieve it and are doing their best to get there. This would normally be the case, after all. They all seem very conscious that nothing other than winning titles will do at United. By all accounts, they are a tight-knit group that isn't plagued by internal divisions or lack of commitment the way some of our previous squads have been. They know from their own record how good they can be. They should lack neither confidence or ambition. All teams go through bad spells, like we are doing now. If you step out of your own emotions for a minute and consider the matter calmly, do you really think it looks plausible that the reason they're playing badly for the moment is that they're cowards?
I neither have the time or patience to respond with a thesis on explaining the tactics or approach of the manager or explaining his mannerisms like others have but I’ll leave you with this.

3 wins from 9 since joint top of the league: bottled it.

2020 League cup SF loss: bottled it.

2020 Fa cup SF loss: bottled it.

2020 Europa SF loss: bottled it

2021 League cup SF loss: bottled it.

There is a trend here where you don’t need to be incredibly educated or smart to understand, and can be explained without a dissertation on whether Ole is a coward or whether we are in a position to judge he’s a coward.
 

Freak

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How can our players take a manager seriously when they see him smiling after a game drawn or lost? Fergie always said his teams were an embodiment of his personality (i.e warriors, never gave up and winners). It’s no surprise that this team embodies Ole’s personality (soft, safe, friendly even after dropping points).
 

croadyman

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The ‘spark’ will return when there is something at stake. The sucker punches against Sheffield United and Everton floored us. League over. Top 4 is enough when Top 4 is the best that is available.

But this is a good team. Watch the spark return for the Cups.
They should not be able to just pick and choose which game they can actually give a shit about, personally that kind of mentality doesn't sit well with me at all but maybe others think that kind of mindset is acceptable
 

croadyman

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Again he made two subs and we finished the game with zero attacking ideas . He had Diallo & Shoretire on the bench . Also if he didn't think that they are useful then why did he let Lingard go out on loan. There are loads of subs and tactical changes you can make to try and open the game but he basically was ok with a point. Take one of the defenders off and just say feck it I am not here for a day
Yeah if he had no intention of using them then should have put Mata on the bench instead because it's just going to be a waste of their time and do absolutely nothing for their personal development either
 

romufc

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Ole knows top 4 and his job is safe. That's the message from the board and without fans in the stadium, there is 0 pressure from anyone to perform.

The players / management feel that draws are very good results because from the 60th minute in most games, we stop trying to win the game and instead play the draw out.
 

Rocknrolla69er

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Seems we lack winners, Ole is safety first as proven by the criminal under use of Van De Beek and the obsession with two defensive minded pivots.

We play Palace, west brom, sheff Utd and we play with two defensive minded pivots in midfield, Ole needs to grow a pair of balls and start taking some logical risks.

Brunos Teflon, sorry great player been great for us but after performances like last nights I don't care who you are , you get subbed off when it clearly isn't your night.

We missed a trick by not putting ole in charge of recruiting players similar to van de sar at Ajax and getting Pochettino in
 

Counterfactual

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Ole knows top 4 and his job is safe. That's the message from the board and without fans in the stadium, there is 0 pressure from anyone to perform.

The players / management feel that draws are very good results because from the 60th minute in most games, we stop trying to win the game and instead play the draw out.
What concerns me is if we've settled for top-4 as a club, how will that affect Bruno? My impression is he's desperate to win games and trophies. I don't see him putting up with a club who don't match his ambitions for long.

We urgently need to bring in more players/coaches with the same attitude as him or face the prospect of losing him.
 

Fluctuation0161

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Again he made two subs and we finished the game with zero attacking ideas . He had Diallo & Shoretire on the bench . Also if he didn't think that they are useful then why did he let Lingard go out on loan. There are loads of subs and tactical changes you can make to try and open the game but he basically was ok with a point. Take one of the defenders off and just say feck it I am not here for a day
So your game winning subs are the untested Diallo or Lingard.

I do agree re:tactical changes but I think:
A) he doesn't trust the defence
B) there were not many options to choose from on the bench
 

Ayush_reddevil

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So your game winning subs are the untested Diallo or Lingard.

I do agree re:tactical changes but I think:
A) he doesn't trust the defence
B) there were not many options to choose from on the bench
Point is that it's not about having game winning subs all the time but rather trying stuff if you are desperate. Kiko macheda ended up having a nothing career but in that moment Fergie showed faith in him and the rest is history
 

croadyman

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Ole knows top 4 and his job is safe. That's the message from the board and without fans in the stadium, there is 0 pressure from anyone to perform.

The players / management feel that draws are very good results because from the 60th minute in most games, we stop trying to win the game and instead play the draw out.
Yeah he knows that champions league football and he is safe as houses
 

Crustanoid

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What has City got to do with us losing against. SU, drawing against a horrible Arsenal side, WBA, Chelsea, against a half depleted Crystal Palace? We've been very lucky with injuries and have a big enough squad to deal with our schedule. Our problem is mentality and that comes from the top.
They killed people
 

justsomebloke

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I neither have the time or patience to respond with a thesis on explaining the tactics or approach of the manager or explaining his mannerisms like others have but I’ll leave you with this.

3 wins from 9 since joint top of the league: bottled it.

2020 League cup SF loss: bottled it.

2020 Fa cup SF loss: bottled it.

2020 Europa SF loss: bottled it

2021 League cup SF loss: bottled it.

There is a trend here where you don’t need to be incredibly educated or smart to understand, and can be explained without a dissertation on whether Ole is a coward or whether we are in a position to judge he’s a coward.
You also don't need to be incredibly educated or smart to understand that you don't really make a case that the team is bottling it by saying that they did five times.
 

USREDEVIL

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Let's face it. This league is like the German league with City too well funded and stocked with talent. Until their owners get sick of paying for their success, or until ours start wanting to pay for it, the results are semi-inevitable. Pool had a great season last year but it looks like their lack of squad depth caught up with them this year. In the long run i think it will always be City's league to lose. I have lowered my expectations to getting top 4 and a cup trophy here and there. Not because i want to, but because it's reality.
 

Giggsy13

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You also don't need to be incredibly educated or smart to understand that you don't really make a case that the team is bottling it by saying that they did five times.
No please continue your useless diatribe about our inability to go into Ole’s head to asses whether he sets up his teams in a cowardly way deal. Ignore the results that don’t suit your argument, you’re doing great!
 

romufc

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What concerns me is if we've settled for top-4 as a club, how will that affect Bruno? My impression is he's desperate to win games and trophies. I don't see him putting up with a club who don't match his ambitions for long.

We urgently need to bring in more players/coaches with the same attitude as him or face the prospect of losing him.
Agreed, it seems as if the club as a whole has accepted top 4 and getting knocked out early of the CL.

There are portions of fans who are even accepting it. Its really frustrating because we have a player with desire and hunger, who will eventually leave because we cannot satisfy his needs.
 

sjw2511

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To me its obvious whats going on, clearly the board have said to Ole that his contract will be discussed at the end of the season when outcomes have been achieved. Ole obviously realises this means if he doesnt get top 4 his contract wont be extended.

Now he is sh!t scared to lose matches.

When this inevitably leads to United dropping out of top 4 you will see performances magically be great again as he will have no choice but to push for wins.

We cant have a manager operating based on such fear.
 

Cardboard elk

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Peoples opinions in this thread looks like some kind of tin foil hat business. How the feck can you say anything about Ole not wanting to win or operating based on fear? Ole does not operate on fear. And he always wants to win and perform as good as possible after what I have read and seen from him. A team can vary in form and have difficulties at times due to other reasons like injuries etc. And now people think Bruno will leave? So stupid. So many people posting on this forum inventing their own reality about Ole, the team and the club. In REALITY many of you guys are just thinking aloud, wondering due to a short attention span and lack of patience with the team. Ole and the team will come back in shape and form. Again. As always. And if we are really lucky, some class players with the correct mentality will join the club this summer and the fight for 1st place in the league can begin, with more consistency from the younger players and a better and more versatile squad.
 

Sky1981

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Peoples opinions in this thread looks like some kind of tin foil hat business. How the feck can you say anything about Ole not wanting to win or operating based on fear? Ole does not operate on fear. And he always wants to win and perform as good as possible after what I have read and seen from him. A team can vary in form and have difficulties at times due to other reasons like injuries etc. And now people think Bruno will leave? So stupid. So many people posting on this forum inventing their own reality about Ole, the team and the club. In REALITY many of you guys are just thinking aloud, wondering due to a short attention span and lack of patience with the team. Ole and the team will come back in shape and form. Again. As always. And if we are really lucky, some class players with the correct mentality will join the club this summer and the fight for 1st place in the league can begin, with more consistency from the younger players and a better and more versatile squad.
If he wants a win he'll jump up from his coach, throw a striker in there, give them a hairdryer so that they push on the next match.
 

croadyman

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Agreed, it seems as if the club as a whole has accepted top 4 and getting knocked out early of the CL.

There are portions of fans who are even accepting it. Its really frustrating because we have a player with desire and hunger, who will eventually leave because we cannot satisfy his needs.
Yeah so very true but that toy story puppet in charge of our finances just cannot see it all and will more than likely just watch Bruno just walk out of the door like we saw happen with Ander as well
 

SirMattlives

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Agree with the minority here it seems. I get people are angry after a game that did not go as planned but terms such as ‘cowardly’, ‘shameful’, etc are emotional but hardly rational. I’d put the games at the moment more down to our being tired from the relentless schedule since coming back last season. Character assassination from viewing people on TV is worthless. I very much doubt anyone connected with the team thinks draws are good outcomes in a routine game. Making claims about Ole‘s mind based on his persona is a form of pop psychology that has proven rather useless, especially when practiced in anger. On balance, we’re ok, still in with a shout for a couple of cups and in the top 4. I too am annoyed we failed to ignite at Palace but I bet you couldn’t tell by just looking.
 

croadyman

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Agree with the minority here it seems. I get people are angry after a game that did not go as planned but terms such as ‘cowardly’, ‘shameful’, etc are emotional but hardly rational. I’d put the games at the moment more down to our being tired from the relentless schedule since coming back last season. Character assassination from viewing people on TV is worthless. I very much doubt anyone connected with the team thinks draws are good outcomes in a routine game. Making claims about Ole‘s mind based on his persona is a form of pop psychology that has proven rather useless, especially when practiced in anger. On balance, we’re ok, still in with a shout for a couple of cups and in the top 4. I too am annoyed we failed to ignite at Palace but I bet you couldn’t tell by just looking.
I would rule us out of winning the FA Cup due to City & Chelsea but got a squeak of winning the Europa League if we don't roll out the same garbage that we have witnessed far too many times this season but got away with wins
 

Foxbatt

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How many of you remember the game against Sheffield Wednesday? Fergie sent Bruce up and he stayed up during the last minutes. Liverpool beat City last season and we are much richer than Liverpool and much bigger. So why can't we compete and beat them? Because they have got a top class manager and we haven't.
 

Acheron

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A draw it's better than getting embarrassed by lower teams (and better teams as well) and as long as he keeps getting points and finishing within top 4 his job would be safe, so I think that's everything there is to it.