Why do we have no trouble finding top talent aged 13-17 worldwide but rarely find any aged 18-22?

[wolvored]

We seem to be able to scour the world and our scouts find quite a few players to play in the youth sides. Some top young players are being coached here now, but are too young to come in or not quite good/prepared enough at the moment for this new season.
How is it then we never seem to find any options a little older? Benfica for example always seem to have young players they find then move them on at a great profit. Dortmund find good players and pay relative small fees before selling for massive gain.
When did we last unearth a cheap gem like Ronaldo that goes straight into the first team squad, and with a bit of coaching could be a great option off the bench or in the first team within weeks of coming here.? We always end up paying excessive fees for young players bought in, or chase players that end up either at other clubs or are priced way too high.
An example is Gabriel Magalhaes who Arsenal found, bid for, gave a medical, before we even tried a late bid. £27 mill is his fee. Why didnt we try for him before Arsenal if we wanted him. Didnt the scouts know about him?
Im also not talking about the likes of Greenwood or anyone who has been here since they were a child, just top talent from other clubs around 18-22 that could virtually go straight into the first team squad.

 

[spontaneus1]

We seem to be able to scour the world and our scouts find quite a few players to play in the youth sides. Some top young players are being coached here now, but are too young to come in or not quite good/prepared enough at the moment for this new season.
How is it then we never seem to find any options a little older? Benfica for example always seem to have young players they find then move them on at a great profit. Dortmund find good players and pay relative small fees before selling for massive gain.
When did we last unearth a cheap gem like Ronaldo that goes straight into the first team squad, and with a bit of coaching could be a great option off the bench or in the first team within weeks of coming here.? We always end up paying excessive fees for young players bought in, or chase players that end up either at other clubs or are priced way too high.
An example is Gabriel Magalhaes who Arsenal found, bid for, gave a medical, before we even tried a late bid. £27 mill is his fee. Why didnt we try for him before Arsenal if we wanted him. Didnt the scouts know about him?
Im also not talking about the likes of Greenwood or anyone who has been here since they were a child, just top talent from other clubs around 18-22 that could virtually go straight into the first team squad.

We should sign the next Ronaldo, got it.

 

[Random Task]

We seem to be able to scour the world and our scouts find quite a few players to play in the youth sides. Some top young players are being coached here now, but are too young to come in or not quite good/prepared enough at the moment for this new season.
How is it then we never seem to find any options a little older? Benfica for example always seem to have young players they find then move them on at a great profit. Dortmund find good players and pay relative small fees before selling for massive gain.
When did we last unearth a cheap gem like Ronaldo that goes straight into the first team squad, and with a bit of coaching could be a great option off the bench or in the first team within weeks of coming here.? We always end up paying excessive fees for young players bought in, or chase players that end up either at other clubs or are priced way too high.
An example is Gabriel Magalhaes who Arsenal found, bid for, gave a medical, before we even tried a late bid. £27 mill is his fee. Why didnt we try for him before Arsenal if we wanted him. Didnt the scouts know about him?
Im also not talking about the likes of Greenwood or anyone who has been here since they were a child, just top talent from other clubs around 18-22 that could virtually go straight into the first team squad.

There is no risk to buying a talented 13-year-old as they cost nothing to bring to the club. If they aren't good enough for United when they turn 18, we sell them on for maximum profit.

All the big clubs do it.

 

[Can7onA]

Because by the time they're 18-22 they are more than likely signed up to someone.

 

[Utdstar01]

Do you mean a Chicharito sort of signing?

 

[groovyalbert]

Because we're more competitive with the top clubs at youth level than we are at professional/first team level.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

gabriel is a wierd example for 30m. especially when 100s of posters in this forum watched him all season long and know all his qualities... joke.

for me he is just a decent young defender 22 years of age who might make a step up and might not, not unlike bailly or lindelof and lots of very similar ones that have gone to city (mangala) or chelsea (rudiger maybe, although he was highly rated)

 

[No Love]

I think our scouts were already briefed to look for and secure the next Messi, so don’t worry. All under control, at least if they got the memo:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/we-must-buy-the-next-messi.401797/

 

[Relevated]

Its because by the time they're a little older they become average joes and find their correct level. We are afraid to spend money and go to the next step. We're not a major club in that regard.

 

[Valar Morghulis]

Do you mean a Chicharito sort of signing?

It feels so weird thinking of him as a veteran playing in the MLS, feels like only yesterday when he was smacking in those goals in the 2010 World Cup. Time goes by so fast man.

 

[Red_toad]

Martial
Dave
Shaw
James
AWB
Lindelof

All say hi, near half our starting 11 signed in the age group we rarely sign players... Are you expect an entire starting 11?

Edit Dalot, Bailly, Jones & Smalling to add to the list...

 

[vodrake]

We buy players in that age range all the time, some of them turn out good some don't, as is the way with most young players bought on potential. Its the same with the U18 players we buy, a lot are being hyped up as future world class players, but the reality is most will end up in lower divisions within a few years looking decidedly average.

There's this weird idea that every young player other clubs buy goes on to be amazing, but the majority don't, people just tend to ignore those ones and latch onto the successes, using their amazing power of hindsight to declare "why werent we in for him?!!"

Gabriel is a weird example to pick, seeing as you don't seem to have ever seen him play, and have no idea if he'll even be a success or not yet.

 

[JPRouve]

There is considerably more 13-17 years "top talents" than there is 18-22. The former category is a lot more vague and a player can often be top rated at 13 and disappear by the time he reaches 15 when it's time to join clubs academies. From 18 years old, players are generally professionals and they are already known but won't be easily signed because they are legally tied to a club, the late bloomers are the ones that are the most difficult to judge because you would need to see them on a daily basis to have a clear idea about why they didn't develop sooner which isn't something that a club will easily know from the outside even if they have the best scouts in the world.

 

[Tom Cato]

We seem to be able to scour the world and our scouts find quite a few players to play in the youth sides. Some top young players are being coached here now, but are too young to come in or not quite good/prepared enough at the moment for this new season.
How is it then we never seem to find any options a little older? Benfica for example always seem to have young players they find then move them on at a great profit. Dortmund find good players and pay relative small fees before selling for massive gain.
When did we last unearth a cheap gem like Ronaldo that goes straight into the first team squad, and with a bit of coaching could be a great option off the bench or in the first team within weeks of coming here.? We always end up paying excessive fees for young players bought in, or chase players that end up either at other clubs or are priced way too high.
An example is Gabriel Magalhaes who Arsenal found, bid for, gave a medical, before we even tried a late bid. £27 mill is his fee. Why didnt we try for him before Arsenal if we wanted him. Didnt the scouts know about him?
Im also not talking about the likes of Greenwood or anyone who has been here since they were a child, just top talent from other clubs around 18-22 that could virtually go straight into the first team squad.

First of all, Gabriel is a decent player but he's not an upgrade over what we have so let's get that out of the way. He might become very good, but the jury is out on that one. I'll always give players who are under 25 the benefit of future development.

Some revised history: A "cheap gem" like Ronaldo, adjusted for 2003 inflation cost the club £19,1 million. That in turn made him the most expensive teenager in football at the time. He was hardly a unknown commodity and we paid out of the eyes for him at the time. You think he had no other suitors? Most clubs with the financial muscles wanted to buy Ronaldo, Arsenal and Real Madrid were very much after him but they all wanted to loan him back to Sporting to develop another year. Manchester United wanted to play him, so he chose us in the end.

These days, the most expensive teenager in football is being attempted bought by the club for over £100million. The valuation stems from the enormous sums that currently exists in football due to the super-inflated club incomes from TV deals. In the UK alone the TV income has increased by over 500% the past decade.

The football market has changed absolutely wildly the past 10 years, and you're simply not being allowed to purchase "the next big thing" for pennies anymore unless you go to a microleague like Norway and somehow dig up a Haaland. Whom we did also try to aquire once everyone realized that he's pretty good. Everyone else wants to be paid because they know fully well that there is a market for a potential gamebreaking talent.

The best and most realistic shot we have is recruiting 15-17 year olds who are established club talents, but even those we pay upwards of £10million for these days. Hannibal Mejbri cost 10 million Euro just to name one recent aquisition that is a potentially very good player.

And honestly, buying developing talent always comes with a lot of gamble behind it. Martin Ødegaard took his sweet time becoming a bonafide playmaker who is now going to finally play for Real Madrid. Boroussia Dortmund have a business strategy of promising 17-18 year olds CL and regular first team football as a way to lure them to the club, and then sell them off for fantasy money in 2-3 years,

 

[Grande]

Martial
Dave
Shaw
James
AWB
Lindelof

All say hi, near half our starting 11 signed in the age group we rarely sign players... Are you expect an entire starting 11?

Edit Dalot, Bailly, Jones & Smalling to add to the list...

This would be a nice place to end the thread.

 

[wolvored]

gabriel is a wierd example for 30m. especially when 100s of posters in this forum watched him all season long and know all his qualities... joke.

for me he is just a decent young defender 22 years of age who might make a step up and might not, not unlike bailly or lindelof and lots of very similar ones that have gone to city (mangala) or chelsea (rudiger maybe, although he was highly rated)

I mentioned that as an example of Arsenal scouting him and apparently we couldnt have as we only jumped on the bandwagon when its too little too late. Perhaps there is an hidden agenda that Woody can trot out if we dont get anyone in. " We tried to sign Gabriel...."

 

[wolvored]

Martial
Dave
Shaw
James
AWB
Lindelof

All say hi, near half our starting 11 signed in the age group we rarely sign players... Are you expect an entire starting 11?

Edit Dalot, Bailly, Jones & Smalling to add to the list...

Were they all cheap signings? One was a British record fee for a goalie at the time, One was a world record signing for a teenager at the time and 3 of them were all well over £30 mill, and with add-ons. Only James and Dalot have come as a 'cheap' option. Smalling and Jones were bought in a different era.

 

[ivaldo]

Were they all cheap signings? One was a British record fee for a goalie at the time, One was a world record signing for a teenager at the time and 3 of them were all well over £30 mill, and with add-ons. Only James and Dalot have come as a 'cheap' option. Smalling and Jones were bought in a different era.

We spent £18m on Ronaldo 17 years ago.

 

[vodrake]

I mentioned that as an example of Arsenal scouting him and apparently we couldnt have as we only jumped on the bandwagon when its too little too late. Perhaps there is an hidden agenda that Woody can trot out if we dont get anyone in. " We tried to sign Gabriel...."

I'm fairly certain it's just another example of an agent using our name to get a better deal for his client, happens every year. Worked too as a day after were linked its mentioned arsenal offered a better contract

 

[Red_toad]

Were they all cheap signings? One was a British record fee for a goalie at the time, One was a world record signing for a teenager at the time and 3 of them were all well over £30 mill, and with add-ons. Only James and Dalot have come as a 'cheap' option. Smalling and Jones were bought in a different era.

What does the purchase price have to do with it? All 18 to 22, could add quite a few decent teams worth of all these players we don't find In that age bracket If you go back far enough. United don’t do cheap, if fans want cheap players then they’re only going to be disappointed, or need to go support Dortmund. Feckin continual threads based on nothing other than someone thought up something to complain about.
You use Ronaldo as an example, well done, care to name another 18 year old signed by a big club who’s been nominated and voted as best player in the world numerous times in the last decade? I’ll give you a clue, it’s none as it doesn’t happen very often, but it did happen to Ronaldo whom United signed.

 

[Skills]

Cause the competition is tough at that point for both the player and the club.

We signed Dalot just 2 summers ago aged 19 for £20m. He was quite high rated, but we gave up on him in under a season.

 

[Champagne Football]

The emergence of Dortmund, Leipzig, Salzburg, PSG, City and Chelsea etc as major hubs for developing the worlds best 18 year olds, has made signing the best 18 years olds on the planet far more challenging for Man Utd today than it was in the 90's. It would be much harder for Utd to sign a Van Nistelroy, Cristiano, Stam today than it was back then when we had among the highest pulling power in Europe along with Bayern, Madrid and Barcelona.

 

[Class of 63]

An example is Gabriel Magalhaes who Arsenal found, bid for, gave a medical, before we even tried a late bid. £27 mill is his fee. Why didnt we try for him before Arsenal if we wanted him. Didnt the scouts know about him?

I'd hazard a guess that United's scouts have looked at Gabriel M several times but decided that Benoît Badiashile @ AS Monaco has a higher ceiling and represents better value for money. The rumours that United going in late for Gabriel M are as likely to come from Lille to give Arsenal/Napoli a hurry-up, or from United to let Monaco know we are prepared to look elsewhere. If United want Gabriel M, we'd get him.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I mentioned that as an example of Arsenal scouting him and apparently we couldnt have as we only jumped on the bandwagon when its too little too late. Perhaps there is an hidden agenda that Woody can trot out if we dont get anyone in. " We tried to sign Gabriel...."

more likely someone made up our interest for some financial purpose, or 'we spoke to his agent' being extrapolated to mean we had a bid in

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Are you sure rarely..

Martial
Dave
Shaw
James
AWB
Lindelof

All say hi, near half our starting 11 signed in the age group we rarely sign players... Are you expect an entire starting 11?

Edit Dalot, Bailly, Jones & Smalling to add to the list...

This thanks.

 

[Adnan]

Because our scouts and Nicky Butt etc are pulling in the same direction regards the youth players. Whilst the recruitment for the first team has been dominated by the manager (Moyes, LVG, Mourinho) who has been buying players for his play-style rather than a set defined play style by the club.

We give too much control to the manager in the hope he will turn into Fergie. But Fergie had everyone pulling in the same direction and did that for over a quarter of a century which gave us stability. Now we're hoping someone will repeat the feat whilst clubs who have Sporting directors compete for the highest honours.

 

[cyril C]

There is considerably more 13-17 years "top talents" than there is 18-22. The former category is a lot more vague and a player can often be top rated at 13 and disappear by the time he reaches 15 when it's time to join clubs academies. From 18 years old, players are generally professionals and they are already known but won't be easily signed because they are legally tied to a club, the late bloomers are the ones that are the most difficult to judge because you would need to see them on a daily basis to have a clear idea about why they didn't develop sooner which isn't something that a club will easily know from the outside even if they have the best scouts in the world.

This is correct. Our problem is that we have signed too many 13-17 turned into flop; while we sign too many 18-22 average players...

In most clubs, 18-19 are already regular starters hence widely exposed to TV. Expectation (from agents) are always high. Dortmund seems to have found the right philosophy in recruiting such talents, by tolerating doggy agent fee, such as Agent will get a huge fee when player is re-sell. I don't think the club will ever accept this kind of deal, so less choices on our talent recruit.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Most players by 18 that are good enough for us are already in the first teams of big clubs? so it's not so easy to get hold of them.

The last player in the catagory was AWB, then Dalot. He hasn't kicked on like we hoped.

Getting them much younger also helps make them a home grown player and they're much cheaper as they aren't on pro contracts.

 

[Siorac]

We spent £18m on Ronaldo 17 years ago.

12.25m but it was a record fee for a teenager at the time.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Sancho is right in the middle of the 18-22 age bracket.

But I get OPs point. There are no hidden gems or relative bargains being sought out. Not sure what the scouting team is looking out for considering we rarely sign a sub-20 million player these days.