You're just assuming things
And we didnt have that many men behind the ball most weeks. In fact our midfield wasnt often around to help our defense which means we had fewer than any organized team
Why do we need another CB?
- Thread starter Gandalf Greyhame
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
And we didnt have that many men behind the ball most weeks. In fact our midfield wasnt often around to help our defense which means we had fewer than any organized team
Yes we do!
Jones & Smalling are Sunderland quality. We all saw how Hazard embarrassed Jones in the cup final & recently in the 3rd place play-off in Russia. In pecking order, he’s behind the following English defenders....Maguire, Stones, Cahill.
Smalling couldn’t even make Southgate’s WC squad. That’s an abomination - a situation most United fans should be angry about. I cannot recall anytime in Fergie 26 years where a United English defender did not start for the 3 Lions.
The poor investment or lack of quality signings have made us lag behind. In which big European clubs would Smalling & Jones get a start? I can’t think of any. It’s anout time we get rid of those players. They are simply not good enough.
I don't disagree that we need another CB, but prioritising one over a right winger baffles me. Last season we conceded 28 in the league, which is quite an impressive defensive record, potentially a league winning defensive record. Our problems came from our ineptitude in attack. It sums up Mourinho's mentality that he'd be willing to leave our right wing in tatters again if it means securing another centre back, of which he's already bought two.
We need defenders that don't need an entire team defending in front of them and DDG godlike skills to keep clean sheets.
But we don't really have much evidence that Mourinho isn't happy with the two centre backs he's bought. He was praising Bailly just last night for playing through an injury for him, and Lindelof doesn't really get a negative mention ever, and played a decent amount of matches approaching the end of the season.
Even with Bailly and Lindelof; Rojo, Jones and even Smalling aren't good enough to compete for the title. Transfer windows are about improving the quality of the squad, not quiet self reflection on previous signings.
Then that would be counterintuitive to buy another if he’s already happy with the five or so we have at a time when other squad positions are in need of upgarde.
It would, but hes blatantly not happy with the five centre backs we have if its true that hes looking to buy a new one.
Jones and Smalling are not Sunderland level that is hyperbole. And outside of Smalling and Jones there is still 3 other CBs.
Yes, they are!
You can dress it however you want but they are not United quality. They can’t defend, they don’t attack and they are appalling in possession.
If true then that's a Mourinho problem and we in worse shape than previously thought as we have a manager who is simply experimenting his way to staying afloat at United.
This. He always looks like a mistake waiting to happen. Out of the ones we currently have I’d rather give Lindelof a chance alongside Maguire / Toby / whoever. He looked decent last season once he’d settled in and at the World Cup.
It wouldn't be a Mourinho problem, it would be a centre back problem, which we definitely do have at the moment.
No its definitely a Mourinho problem as it was he who bought Bailly and Lindelof. If we are to believe he made the wrong choices the past two years it doesn't in any way inspire confidence he won't do the same this year, which calls his decision making process into serious question.
We’re certainly missing an absolute top class center back. But we also just don’t have a right winger at all. I can't really understand why it seems like center back is our top priority now.
It's a strange one, because it's one of the few positions I thought we were ok in for this window, yet it's suddenly a priority.
He's bought Bailly and Lindelof in, one has shown massive potential, the other enough to stick with, why he just doesn't stick to his guns and trust them, (with adequate back up already there) is very odd when we have such glaring deficiencies elsewhere.
He's bought Bailly and Lindelof in, one has shown massive potential, the other enough to stick with, why he just doesn't stick to his guns and trust them, (with adequate back up already there) is very odd when we have such glaring deficiencies elsewhere.
Ok but as I previously said he doesn't seem unhappy with either of them. Buying Bailly and Lindelof has no implications on the quality of Smalling, Jones and Rojo, Three players who have shown that they're not of the required quality to play for United.
If we're getting rid of Rojo and one of Smalling/Jones, then it's always a good idea to have four options.
In our case it would be:
Lindelof
Bailly
Smalling/Jones
New Centre Back
Within those centre backs, ideally you should probably have two ball playing centre backs and two no nonsense centre backs. That's how Jose usually likes it anyway.
If we get a new ball playing centre back, it will give us:
Ball playing centre back/Lindelof
Smalling/Bailly
That is assuming Jones and Rojo leave, as I said before.
Having said all of that, I don't feel buying a centre back should be our main priority this summer, especially if it means not having enough funds to purchase a left back and winger - two positions I think are more of a priority.
In our case it would be:
Lindelof
Bailly
Smalling/Jones
New Centre Back
Within those centre backs, ideally you should probably have two ball playing centre backs and two no nonsense centre backs. That's how Jose usually likes it anyway.
If we get a new ball playing centre back, it will give us:
Ball playing centre back/Lindelof
Smalling/Bailly
That is assuming Jones and Rojo leave, as I said before.
Having said all of that, I don't feel buying a centre back should be our main priority this summer, especially if it means not having enough funds to purchase a left back and winger - two positions I think are more of a priority.
Okay, perhaps I should've said 'I felt on too many occasions...'
Are we not allowed to make observations unless otherwise qualified by Mourinho himself?
Disagree on Smalling and Jones as they have repeatedly performed as well as the others. If he was so turned off by them then he would've sold them off in his first summer.
If we buy McGuire then Rojo will likely be sold on, not one of Smalling or Jones as well (imo)
Most likely, yes. There's always a possibility that Jose could play three at the back too, so having five centre backs makes sense.
In his first summer he would've bought Bailly and sold Jones and Smalling? That would mean we'd have gone into the season with Bailly, Blind and Rojo as our only centre backs, so, no, he wouldn't have done that.
Until we get a solid pair of CB's we will continue to look for one more.
Bailly seems to be getting injured a lot. Smalling is inconsistent or atleast deserves to play with someone who can boost the defence.
I used to hate Alan Hanson on the BBC buthe always gave us credit for our defences post 2006.
How I miss the days of Rio n Vidic.
Bailly seems to be getting injured a lot. Smalling is inconsistent or atleast deserves to play with someone who can boost the defence.
I used to hate Alan Hanson on the BBC buthe always gave us credit for our defences post 2006.
How I miss the days of Rio n Vidic.
I get the supporting players of your club...but I am more of the thought that if you dont think much of a player at your club you should vent that. You are absolutely correct we have six centre backs, seven if you include Mensah. The two youngsters I woulo dsay are find as 5th and 6th choices. I dont think we will play three at the back so those four are basically the first choices and back ups.
If Lindelof was at anotjer club I dont think we would be talking about him as anything other than average. He was decent at the world cup, his flaws were stilll exposed by Sterling and I would say his defensive partner actually looked better for Sweden....and tht is a player I believe was released by Wigan! He isnt an awful defender but the mere fact you are callin ghim our first choice centre back is reason enough for why we are lookign at a new centre back. He isnt good at playign the ball out from the back, he is average at it, no better than Bailly who is also average at it. We signed an average centre back last yeaqr with him when we needed a really good one....still have the same problem with another body in the squad
Bailly is fast, strong, quick. I do acctually like him but he is rash in the air and rash generally. I think he is the one defender that can be good with the right partner.
Smalling. He was actually pretty good when he was known as Mike. Tat is ONE season in what eight seasons here now? I do think he is decent tackling and as you say good in the air. I would keep him as a back up, as we need to keep one of them!
Phil JOnes: Agasin nearly eight years and he hasnt had one good season. In my mind he was actually a better when we signed him than he is now. Should have become a top centre back and he still isnt old, but whether it is injuries, lack of progression or whatever, what is he still doing here? * years to play 1/4 of the season averagely with some big mistakes?
Rojo: He has been here 3/4 years now? Was so awful at left back that when in an injury crisis he came in at centre back and played decently for a few months, people were so shocked they over exaggerated his performances. And his rashness makes Bailly look like he thinks football is a non contact sport, truly awful signing
That really isnt agroup of four centre backs for one of the premiership let alone Europes elite sides.
Ideally I would like three of those four gone Rojo, Lindelof and JOnes and that we signed TWO new centre backs. Our biggest problem offensively is all four of our defenders are not great on the ball at the back, cycling the ball quickly or even cycling the ball anywhere but sideways or two the furthest back midfielder. LAst season that was either Matic who has been good but not creative so our play is automatically slowed down....or it is Pogba coming deep so all of his offensive qualities breakign forward with the ball or a coutner attacking play are nullified. Worse still we play the ball up directly to Lukaku who cant trap or lay off the ball consistantly whatsoever. He may be bug but he should be playing towards the goal not with his back to it, he is a useless targete man.
Put two quality centre backs into our line up that can actually pass the ball well, quickly, are good in the air, positionally sound and confident and we would be able to move the ball forward much quicker, our centre bakcs are part of the borign negative football problem we have...not the only reason of course but even Maguire would improve the problem significantly
We need a leader with experience at the back. Build up play starts from the back, someone who can command and demand more from that line.
Nobody can at the moment. It's also about creating a strong partnership. We look to Smalling because he's been there longer than everyone else. The problem is he's terrified the moment the ball is passed to him, creates a nervousness. The rest are too injury prone to be playing weekly to be that leader, Lindelof just struggled to adapt so far.
I think if we could keep Bailly fit and bring Toby in we would have the hardest spine in the league. De Gea with Toby, Bailly and Matic would be a wall. It's crucial we get one, still can't wrap my head about Slab head Maguire. We need an experience top CB. He isn't that now, not what we need. There are issues from wide areas as everyone knows but CB is so important.
Nobody can at the moment. It's also about creating a strong partnership. We look to Smalling because he's been there longer than everyone else. The problem is he's terrified the moment the ball is passed to him, creates a nervousness. The rest are too injury prone to be playing weekly to be that leader, Lindelof just struggled to adapt so far.
I think if we could keep Bailly fit and bring Toby in we would have the hardest spine in the league. De Gea with Toby, Bailly and Matic would be a wall. It's crucial we get one, still can't wrap my head about Slab head Maguire. We need an experience top CB. He isn't that now, not what we need. There are issues from wide areas as everyone knows but CB is so important.
If he thought they were not good enough then yes it would've been complete negligence on his part to proceed with them. In either case, its Mourinho who has consistently been the lowest common denominator of making poor choices.
I reckon the reality isn’t as mathematical as that personally.
Who are we supposed to buy on the right? There is nobody that inspires confidence. I’m of the view that if Bale or Mbappé were really in play this window, they would be our top target ahead of a centre half. But we may have had a look and decided that the value isn’t there in the RW position (although I share the caf consensus that Riyad Mahrez should have been pursued).
I don't know if you've noticed but since Mourinho has joined we've had to completely overhaul the squad due to the negligence of the previous two managers. I'm sure Mourinho thinks plenty of our players aren't good enough and he'd be right to think so, but he has limitations as to who he buys each summer.
Since Mourinho has come in there have been clear improvements in the quality of the squad and that isn't up for debate, we were a shambles by the end of Van Gaal's time here.
Nail. Head.
Yes because Mourinho takes personal charge of the transfer war room doesn't he?
It depends how you define improvements. Consider what we have spent relative to what we have won and how entertaining our football is (especially in contrast to Klopp and Pep's results) and its easy to see Mourinho's time here as been average at best.
He certainly tells Ed who he wants to buy. Unless we are to assume Woodward decided to buy Bailly and Lindelof, I'd say Jose should take responsibility for both.
I define improvements in the squad by the results we get. We're now better than when Van Gaal left. Since Mourinho has joined we have had a second place finish and two trophies, Klopp has neither of these things, so I'm not sure why hes in any way relevant to the quality of our centre backs.
It just sounds like you actually don't have much of an opinion as to whether or not we need a centre back, and have instead decided to derail a thread which is specifically for discussing why we do or don't need a centre back.
I’m bemused by people saying Smalling isn’t cut out for Utd. Tall, fast, strong, good in the air and a true defender. Just because it’s fashionable to have ball playing centre backs doesn’t mean we need them all to be players.
Probably our best defender post Rio/Vidic
Yeah.... let’s do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result.
Yes Jose will have given Ed a list, quite simply I do not believe that Lindelof will have been top of it. You will say "oh but he was on the list so he is a Mourinho choice", but he may well have been a low, reluctant and/or forced choice if Woodward capped the budget for this given other probable outlays.
This summer there is no excuse.
I don’t think you can single out Smalling for our poor form in recent years. In truth, through poor personnel/poor tactics, it’s been our attack which has been lacking.
How do you expect the forwards to get a chance if we have defenders that can't pass and resort giving the ball back to De Gea to hoof up.. almost every team is pressing high up now , so we need defenders that can play ..
De Gea faced 120 PL shots on target last season, conceding only 23 goals. We played the most defensive in the top 6 and yet we were facing more number of shots on target than Burnley.
Ederson on the other hand faced only 70 PL shots on target, conceding only 20 goals. Yet, you say our attack has been lacking. The only reason Jose put 7 men behind the ball at all times is because he cannot trust his defenders. It’s as simple as that.