Why do we need another CB?

[Ekeke]

Okay, perhaps I should've said 'I felt on too many occasions...'

Are we not allowed to make observations unless otherwise qualified by Mourinho himself?

Well you stated it as if its a fact. Its something that people say on here but its based entirely on assumption. It doesnt make any sense though because Matic often moves out of the holding position getting forward plenty. And other than him, who is the shield? Our wingers tend to do less than organized teams we play against and Pogba was doing less than most other CMs last season.

So really this shield doesnt exist. More often than not our fullbacks leave our CBs out to dry with poor positioning and Matic isnt always in a defensive position to help them

 

[Ekeke]

De Gea faced 120 PL shots on target last season, conceding only 23 goals. We played the most defensive in the top 6 and yet we were facing more number of shots on target than Burnley.

Ederson on the other hand faced only 70 PL shots on target, conceding only 20 goals. Yet, you say our attack has been lacking. The only reason Jose put 7 men behind the ball at all times is because he cannot trust his defenders. It’s as simple as that.

What about our setup and tactics was defensive? The fact that we were poor attacking?

We were less organized and our CBs were less protected than other teams.

 

[gerdm07]

FIRST CHOICE
============
Victor Lindelof:
Had an excellent World Cup, he seems to have overcome his confidence issues. I like his positioning and his tackling, and he can play the ball out from the back, too. He had a shaky first few appearances last season, but it looks quite obvious that he has improved over time.
Eric Bailly:
Our best CB, IMO. Needs to stay injury free. Great tackling, great in the air, great on the ball. If he were playing for someone else, we'd be paying more for him than Alderweireld/Maguire.
Chris Smalling:
Best header of the ball we have, strong and experienced. He is not great in possession, agreed. But he is still very good, and can play if we choose to go three at the back or if Lindelof/Bailly are unavailable.

BACKUP
========
Phil Jones
Has the odd moment, and is perennially unfit, but can step up when we need a job done. Experienced, strong, can head well, and one of the faster CBs we have. Gives it all, good backup.
Marcos Rojo
Inconsistent, in the sense that despite having a brainfart in him every other game, he occasionally comes up with a strong dazzling display. Not bad for a backup, however. Great mentality.
Axel Tuanzebe
Full of promise, can get minutes every now and then.

We have six CBs in the club, 2 of them Mourinho signings. Why on earth do we need another CB so urgently instead of letting them bed in/battle it out? I just don't get it. What does Maguire bring to the squad that Bailly/Lindelof/Smalling do not?

The OP said what I think of each and my conclusion is we need wing backs more than we need CBs. I think Mou should give Shaw a run of matches to see if he can cut it or not. If not, sell in January. Sell Darmian now, though, and try to buy a 29/30 year old RB to give Dalot a little time to settle. Valencia is 33 and we should not expect him to have a good full season. I, like many others, dread seeing Young and Valencia starting the first match and be continual first choices. I would be doubly worried if they are our wing backs in a 3-5-2 which means we would have little creativity wide.

With Andreas looking good in pre-season I am no longer worried about midfield. Surely Mou can come up with a cohesive unit when picking from Pogba, Matic, Andreas, Fred, Herrera, Lingard, McTominay and....I know I'm missing someone.

Please buy a good RB and/or RW!

 

[Minimalist]

We do need centre-backs who can stay fit and play more consistently. At present we've got Smalling in that category with Lindelof and Bailly as good potential but still with question marks.

I'd toss Rojo and Jones out the door anytime, the former is too rash and the latter is just shite at this level. So we probably do need another one in but I wouldn't break the bank for one like we seem to be with Maguilani.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

We do need centre-backs who can stay fit and play more consistently. At present we've got Smalling in that category with Lindelof and Bailly as good potential but still with question marks.

I'd toss Rojo and Jones out the door anytime, the former is too rash and the latter is just shite at this level. So we probably do need another one in but I wouldn't break the bank for one like we seem to be with Maguilani.

It is Bailly's third season and Lindelof's second no shame in them still having question marks.

 

[Minimalist]

It is Bailly's third season and Lindelof's second no shame in them still having question marks.

Nah I agree, they have some grace at this point. I don't think Lindelof was any worse than the rest (excluding Smalling) last season, despite the few mistakes early on.

 

[Jacko21]

Well you stated it as if its a fact. Its something that people say on here but its based entirely on assumption. It doesnt make any sense though because Matic often moves out of the holding position getting forward plenty. And other than him, who is the shield? Our wingers tend to do less than organized teams we play against and Pogba was doing less than most other CMs last season.

So really this shield doesnt exist. More often than not our fullbacks leave our CBs out to dry with poor positioning and Matic isnt always in a defensive position to help them

So we weren't conservative last season? We didn't defend first and attack second in a number of games?

 

[Devil1]

How do you expect the forwards to get a chance if we have defenders that can't pass and resort giving the ball back to De Gea to hoof up.. almost every team is pressing high up now , so we need defenders that can play ..

I expect Jose to know how to beat a team which is pressing high. After all, it’s not as if it’s a new thing. I’m no tactical expert but I suspect it involves having fullbacks that can actually play- like Evra used to and Marcelo does.

The fullbacks for me are the most important players on the pitch and ours are not great! At centreback I think one physical player and one more cultured player is ideal. You have to have someone who will win balls in the air! Smalling can be our physical player.

BTW i’m all for a new CB but not in place of Smalling. Also I think full back is more important to sort out.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

FIRST CHOICE
============
Victor Lindelof:
Had an excellent World Cup, he seems to have overcome his confidence issues. I like his positioning and his tackling, and he can play the ball out from the back, too. He had a shaky first few appearances last season, but it looks quite obvious that he has improved over time.
Eric Bailly:
Our best CB, IMO. Needs to stay injury free. Great tackling, great in the air, great on the ball. If he were playing for someone else, we'd be paying more for him than Alderweireld/Maguire.
Chris Smalling:
Best header of the ball we have, strong and experienced. He is not great in possession, agreed. But he is still very good, and can play if we choose to go three at the back or if Lindelof/Bailly are unavailable.

BACKUP
========
Phil Jones
Has the odd moment, and is perennially unfit, but can step up when we need a job done. Experienced, strong, can head well, and one of the faster CBs we have. Gives it all, good backup.
Marcos Rojo
Inconsistent, in the sense that despite having a brainfart in him every other game, he occasionally comes up with a strong dazzling display. Not bad for a backup, however. Great mentality.
Axel Tuanzebe
Full of promise, can get minutes every now and then.

We have six CBs in the club, 2 of them Mourinho signings. Why on earth do we need another CB so urgently instead of letting them bed in/battle it out? I just don't get it. What does Maguire bring to the squad that Bailly/Lindelof/Smalling do not?

Smalling is our most dominant cb in the air and our only leader. Yet he really shouldn't be our first choice CB alongside Bailly

 

[Prongsy]

Genuinely dont get why we are looking at new CBs. If you can't get the job done with the five CBs that we have, you are just not good enough. And, its not like these five CBs couldn't do a job. We were second best defensively shaped team of last year. Unless he comes out and says "i want this profile of a defender, who is going to start influencing how my teams play", there is no point in even looking.

And lets say he does say "i want my defenders to play from the back". what the feck ? didn't he just say I dont want my defenders thinking too much with the ball after LVG left? he made a U turn to how the likes of Jones and Smalling think. hence sending them back down the pecking order.

We had a great defensive run last year. Having Maguire instead of one of the 5, wouldn't have helped us beat Sevilla or Chelsea. and its not like the only difference between united and city last year was Otamendi's ability on the ball. So feck off again Mourinho for implying some other b.s.

And lets talk maguire. he is not day and night better than any of our Cbs, tested or untested. any CB with tons and tons of potential is only good if you are given some game time to flourish and form partnership. What if one of 5 just walk to a top 6 club and then have that play time, and show what they are made of. will maguire offer something else to our team then than what these people can do then? I really really doubt it.

Ultimately, he just wants a set piece merchant. just like he extended Fellaini for that. This just makes me sad.

 

[Ekeke]

So we weren't conservative last season? We didn't defend first and attack second in a number of games?

I dont think so because we didnt do the first part at all well as a team. If anything we had more attacking players than defending players.

We had Young doing quite well going forward but being out of position defensively. We had Pogba not doing much defending. We had Matic going up to the opponent's box getting shots in. Our wingers didnt track back well, although Sanchez did win some tackles when he came in.

So nothing from how we played suggested a defensive setup. A defensive setup would be like Atletico Madrid, where all the players are well organized to help each other defend.

Young, Pogba and most of our wingers wouldnt have got into the Atletico team last season playing how they did for us.

I think its just an excuse for being poor going forward. We were poor going forward, so it must be that we were setup amazingly defensively. Only we werent and Smalling sometimes and De Gea at all times had to bail us out.

 

[DownRiver]

Can I just point out that Mourinho knows what he is talking about.

Look at the defenders he had at Inter Milan, Real Madrid and Chelsea. All top class centre backs. If he wants to go for the title, he can't have average centre backs. We all know our centre backs are unreliable to say the least with injuries and positioning.

 

[Jacko21]

I dont think so because we didnt do the first part at all well as a team. If anything we had more attacking players than defending players.

We had Young doing quite well going forward but being out of position defensively. We had Pogba not doing much defending. We had Matic going up to the opponent's box getting shots in. Our wingers didnt track back well, although Sanchez did win some tackles when he came in.

So nothing from how we played suggested a defensive setup. A defensive setup would be like Atletico Madrid, where all the players are well organized to help each other defend.

Young, Pogba and most of our wingers wouldnt have got into the Atletico team last season playing how they did for us.

I think its just an excuse for being poor going forward. We were poor going forward, so it must be that we were setup amazingly defensively. Only we werent and Smalling sometimes and De Gea at all times had to bail us out.

Interesting take.

Though I look to the two games against Sevilla as a prime example of how Mourinho's fear of an open game left us looking timid and without any real scope for clear goalscoring opportunities. We were so preoccupied with them, that we forget our own need to actually score.

This was from Delaney a few days ago:

One argument put forward by those close to Mourinho is that he can’t yet fully commit to more expansive football because he hasn’t had the defensive framework he fully trusts – because he hasn’t had centre-halves he fully trusts.

It could be BS of course and perhaps it is an excuse for being poor in attack. If we sign Maguire or Toby, we'll see which theory is proven correct.

 

[Devil1]

De Gea faced 120 PL shots on target last season, conceding only 23 goals. We played the most defensive in the top 6 and yet we were facing more number of shots on target than Burnley.

Ederson on the other hand faced only 70 PL shots on target, conceding only 20 goals. Yet, you say our attack has been lacking. The only reason Jose put 7 men behind the ball at all times is because he cannot trust his defenders. It’s as simple as that.

I understand what you are saying but to say that the centrebacks are to blame is a bit harsh. I suspect Mourinhos rant about Pogba recently was based on the fact that Pogba, like many other players, were losing focus/effort on defence. The Pogba in the World Cup was immense because he played with intelligence and skill both with and without he ball.

As I mentioned earlier, I think fullbacks are key but also hardworking attacking players- hence the signing of Sanchez.

Bring back the days of Evra, Nev, Giggsy and Becks!

 

[simplyared]

Can't understand the praise for Lindelöf for his contribution during the World Cup. It was Granqvist who held that Swedish defence together. Still a hell of a lot to be desired. Not good enough imv. Smalling carries him as well.
A fit Jones + Smalling is still the best combo we've got at the back, so that says everything.
We're screaming for a top class CB. Lindelöf needs to be replaced and sold!

 

[Coxy]

Going out on a limb here so stay with me but I’m gonna say it’s because the ones we have are shit?

Basically this.

 

[Red Royal]

We just don't need one.Bailly and Linedlov need a run of games.

 

[JMack1234]

Because we've got 5 quite good CBs who'd all be fine if they had a genuine top quality CB playing alongside them. However, well you play them together you can bet your bottom dollar that they'll let you down enough times to torpedo our ambitions.

 

[peridigm]

Is Manchester United a big club? Yes
Are any of Manchester United's starting CB's and FB's starters for other big clubs? No

/thread

 

[Oldyella]

Yes we do!

Jones & Smalling are Sunderland quality. We all saw how Hazard embarrassed Jones in the cup final & recently in the 3rd place play-off in Russia. In pecking order, he’s behind the following English defenders....Maguire, Stones, Cahill.

Smalling couldn’t even make Southgate’s WC squad. That’s an abomination - a situation most United fans should be angry about. I cannot recall anytime in Fergie 26 years where a United English defender did not start for the 3 Lions.

The poor investment or lack of quality signings have made us lag behind. In which big European clubs would Smalling & Jones get a start? I can’t think of any. It’s anout time we get rid of those players. They are simply not good enough.

Smalling - 31 England Caps
Steve Bruce & Gary Pallister combined - 22 England caps

You didnt recall very much at all apparently.

 

[Devil1]

Is Manchester United a big club? Yes
Are any of Manchester United's starting CB's and FB's starters for other big clubs? No

/thread

I reckon Smalling and Bailly would at many big clubs (Depending on who you include as big clubs). Thing is they’d replace the Cahills, Lovrens and Otamendis of this world rather than the more cultured centrebacks.

 

[Ekeke]

Interesting take.

Though I look to the two games against Sevilla as a prime example of how Mourinho's fear of an open game left us looking timid and without any real scope for clear goalscoring opportunities. We were so preoccupied with them, that we forget our own need to actually score.

This was from Delaney a few days ago:



It could be BS of course and perhaps it is an excuse for being poor in attack. If we sign Maguire or Toby, we'll see which theory is proven correct.

Yeah it sounds like the same assumptions that posters make here.

In the first leg against Sevilla our midfield just got dumpstered and dominated but I think Mourinho was happy with a draw, because he tends to like to get a draw in a big match. I dont think that would change if he had Messi in the team. Thats Mourinho

In the 2nd leg however 2 of our CMs were Lingard and Fellaini, two players who are much better attacking than anything else. Then Sanchez and Rashford on the wings - two forwards. Only Matic is defensive and he gets forward more than plenty of other Dms. The personnel we picked was very attacking, it just didnt work

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Is Manchester United a big club? Yes
Are any of Manchester United's starting CB's and FB's starters for other big clubs? No

/thread

Would Maguire or Alderweild be starters for any of the other big clubs?

 

[londonredmaniac]

Mainly because none of the ones we currently have are of the standard you'd expect from MUFC.

We have potential in Bailly and Lindelof...both have to make strides this season to nail down those positions, Smalling is capable...nothing more.

Rojo is average at best, Jones is a liability when he's not injured...neither should be here come the start of the season IMO. I would happily sign a quality centre back. TFM on another good loan and Axel the same.

 

[RoadTrip]

Personally for me it’s pretty simple. I don’t think CB is our greatest need, and if we had to pick only one position to strengthen I wouldn’t say CB. At the same time, I wouldn’t go as far as saying it isn’t one of our weaker positions and is therefore certainly a position which needs strengthening.

 

[Son Of Sam]

Smalling - 31 England Caps
Steve Bruce & Gary Pallister combined - 22 England caps

You didnt recall very much at all apparently.

Nobody is talking about caps. We are talking about if ever SAF’s English defenders got left behind for big international football tournaments.

 

[Castia]

Is Manchester United a big club? Yes
Are any of Manchester United's starting CB's and FB's starters for other big clubs? No

/thread

But he’s signed 2 of his own CB’s and spent over £70m in the process, we can keep throwing money at it maybe in 4 years and £300m later we might get 2 that are decent.

 

[caid]

Because none of the ones we have are great. Neither are most of the cb's were being linked with at this point so I dont really see the point in spending 70m on a player we'll struggle to sell for 20m in 2 years time.

 

[TheFlagStaysDown]

FIRST CHOICE
============
Victor Lindelof:
Had an excellent World Cup, he seems to have overcome his confidence issues. I like his positioning and his tackling, and he can play the ball out from the back, too. He had a shaky first few appearances last season, but it looks quite obvious that he has improved over time.
Eric Bailly:
Our best CB, IMO. Needs to stay injury free. Great tackling, great in the air, great on the ball. If he were playing for someone else, we'd be paying more for him than Alderweireld/Maguire.
Chris Smalling:
Best header of the ball we have, strong and experienced. He is not great in possession, agreed. But he is still very good, and can play if we choose to go three at the back or if Lindelof/Bailly are unavailable.

BACKUP
========
Phil Jones
Has the odd moment, and is perennially unfit, but can step up when we need a job done. Experienced, strong, can head well, and one of the faster CBs we have. Gives it all, good backup.
Marcos Rojo
Inconsistent, in the sense that despite having a brainfart in him every other game, he occasionally comes up with a strong dazzling display. Not bad for a backup, however. Great mentality.
Axel Tuanzebe
Full of promise, can get minutes every now and then.

We have six CBs in the club, 2 of them Mourinho signings. Why on earth do we need another CB so urgently instead of letting them bed in/battle it out? I just don't get it. What does Maguire bring to the squad that Bailly/Lindelof/Smalling do not?

the bolded part is nonsense..

Lindelof was always good for sweden, if this is the turning point we will find out soon but, coming to a team on the biggest stage, in a state United is now with a manager like Jose, I'd bet he will struggle more, his tackling is actually the opposite he made the least tackles of all cbs who got out of group stages, hes very passive CB, not good for PL, may be good on the ball but in PL there is very little time. He is also one of the worst CB we've ever had in the air, can't see him ever being good enough for that single reason because PL is too physical. He would be my 4th/5th choice but if he could go out on loan in the prem and play regularly great but he will cost us a lot if he stays, he is just not ready to be 1st choice at all for us depsite havign a decent WC, btw his CB partner was way better anyway.

Bailly is a potentially great CB but also quite far from there. His tackling is sometimes too aggressive and he mistimes a lot of headers. CB simply has to be good in the air in the PL. He is also injury prone.

Smalling - agreed but we need someone who can play with the ball next to him, while not being exposed at other things..

Jones and Rojo are injury prone and also for that reason alone they shouldn't be no1 choice because they can never create a solid partneship

Axel is ready to play cup games but hardly impressed to have a major CB role, ideally he need to play regularly to iron out his mistakes


---
So because of the reason that three of our CBs are injury prone and none of them is world class, I would simply offload one of the injury ones and get someone like Maguire or Alderweireld who would stay fit and creat a partnership with either Smalling and Bailly

Jones/Rojo and Axel can be 4th and 5th choice while we loan out Lindelof. If we get a good loan for Axel I'd loan him then because then we have TFM as well to make shift...

playing three at the back would be a total disappointment becasue we simply don't have any wingback. Valencia is too defensive for a RB even though he plays without a proper winger and Young is just about good LB going forward but he' d be expected to offer more and perhaps in33 it is not ideal, also Dalot is more defensive along with Shaw if those are no2 options.

But we need CB anyway

 

[jeff gurr]

Would Maguire or Alderweild be starters for any of the other big clubs?

Both would be starters for most clubs possibly with the exception of Man C

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Both would be starters for most clubs possibly with the exception of Man C

By big clubs I assumed he meant the elite clubs in Europe and I do not think they would start Real, Barca,Bayern, Juve, PSG, Atletico, etc

 

[Ashley R1+O]

Only in a drop out the bottom and in from the top scenario do we need another CB. If Rojo goes then we will probably need another player, but largely agree we're set up Smalling+Baily/Lindelof with the other guys competing for the also-ran positions is the way forward.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Bailly is terribly overrated on here. This ‘our best defender’ tag seems to have just been given and not earned.

Too true. He's very talented.

But he's often as rash as Rojo and his recent injury record is worse than Jones and Smalling.

Needs a good season

 

[Silas]

FIRST CHOICE
============
Eric Bailly:
Our best CB, IMO. Needs to stay injury free. Great tackling, great in the air, great on the ball. If he were playing for someone else, we'd be paying more for him than Alderweireld/Maguire.

I like Bailly, but that just isn't true.

 

[villain]

Sell Rojo & Jones - they hardly play for us anyway.

Give Lindelof more minutes.
Get in Toby.
Put Tuanzebe in for League Cup games.

 

[padzilla]

I do wonder how many of our central defensive options would be guaranteed starters at the other top six clubs - it is not outlandish to say possibly none of them. That really is not acceptable for United however when you have the likes of Rojo on 160k a week it is easy to see why these players are reluctant to move on.

 

[Red_Ramirez]

The hate on Smalling is irrational and boring.

He was good last season. Our best centre-back performance wise last season

 

[Ekeke]

I do wonder how many of our central defensive options would be guaranteed starters at the other top six clubs - it is not outlandish to say possibly none of them. That really is not acceptable for United however when you have the likes of Rojo on 160k a week it is easy to see why these players are reluctant to move on.

Its completely outlandish. None of those clubs has 2 CBs better at defending than Smalling. Maybe 1 but theres 2 CB spots

 

[André Dominguez]

IMHO our center backs are more than enough to do the job. You don't need outstanding center backs to win titles. They just need to be solid when defending and decent when passing. The rest is a bonus.

Money should be invested upfront, on the left back and in the middle.

 

[Red_Ramirez]

IMHO our center backs are more than enough to do the job. You don't need outstanding center backs to win titles. They just need to be solid when defending and decent when passing. The rest is a bonus.

Money should be invested upfront, on the left back and in the middle.

Definitely. we dont score enough goals

Only Lukaku got into double figures in the league last season with 16 goals