Why is all the focus on Pogba?
- Thread starter Josep Dowling
- Start date
By all accounts he's a good polite lad, who doesn't drink or smoke, who trains hard, is never late and is respected by all the players. He's our best player with mot goals and assists, has won the world cup and was voted into the team of the season for the team in 6th place. Yet every week we see him being slated by former players who used to go out and drink 10 pints after every match and consistently pilloried in the media.
The only other who seems to have got the same kind of treatment in recent times is Sterling. I'm not going to make accusations without any evidence but you can see why some people might.
The only other who seems to have got the same kind of treatment in recent times is Sterling. I'm not going to make accusations without any evidence but you can see why some people might.
I do think there is a lot of truth in what you say especially due to his brand. Unfortunately none of us our privy to the thoughts of those who use race as an instrument to castigate him. Sterling seems to have had to make an extra effort to come across as the ‘ nice black lad.’ Fact is he’s always been that person he is. He donated to the Grenfel tower fund etc
All the focus on just Pogba?
So bizarre, doesn't seem like it.
Pretty sure a lot of our other players and even our coaches (and the club management team, and the ex-managers, and even Sir Alex Ferguson) get it plenty enough as well.
So bizarre, doesn't seem like it.
Pretty sure a lot of our other players and even our coaches (and the club management team, and the ex-managers, and even Sir Alex Ferguson) get it plenty enough as well.
Yet sadly there are Pogba threads everyday
What fantasy land are you living in, the same one that leads you to worship Pogba maybe?
Matic, Lukaku and De gea were undroppable during his time here. Lindelof and Shaw became starters this season under him (Shaw was actually unfairly criticized by him last season, but he said that it pushed him on to sort himself out in pre season). Young and Lingard don't fall out with anyone because they've accepted that they are players that do a job. Herrera and Mata are too professional to fall out with anyone.
The two strongest cases for falling out are Pogba and Martial. Martial's agent said that Mourinho was treating him unfairly and the feud between Pogba and Mou is all over the media.
Been saying this all season... Asking Pogba to work miracles in that team - coming deep to take possession from Smalling/Jones/Young turning forward to see Lingard/Martial/Lukaku/Sanchez/Rashford... It's like asking Da Vinci to paint a masterpiece with a bucket of crayons.
He's not void of any blame and can be as lazy as the rest of them and vanish in games, but the scrutiny he's under is nuts while others walk onto our starting XI churning out bad performances week in, week out.
He's not void of any blame and can be as lazy as the rest of them and vanish in games, but the scrutiny he's under is nuts while others walk onto our starting XI churning out bad performances week in, week out.
The fokus on Pogba is due to Pogba himself:
Pogba wants the focus.
Pogba has talent, but he has dispicable personlity features. Get rid of him. He IS a virus.
That is my opinion after watching all his games and reactions since the PGS game he WATCHED from the bench.
Pogba wants the focus.
Pogba has talent, but he has dispicable personlity features. Get rid of him. He IS a virus.
That is my opinion after watching all his games and reactions since the PGS game he WATCHED from the bench.
It’s crazy compared to someone like Sanchez who has been a complete disaster on obscene money, is known to be a difficult character in the dressing room and rarely communicates with the fans.
It's a hard one for me to objectively assess. In Sterlings case I think it's quite clear cut. He's been treated appallingly.
Pogba is a strange one for me because I struggle to see what the critics are seeing. He has a somewhat languid gait but I dont get the impression he's a lazy player.
He's consistently called a luxury player but I'm not quite where other than England the ability to pass the ball forward to a team mate is a luxury. Especially in a team where nobody else can do it.
Like any player he has flaws. He takes too much out of the ball at times, he's not the most natural defender in the world but I dont understand the constant need to pretend it's down to some character defect.
I also find the large numbers of United supporters turning on him really odd. Someone who plays the game so elegantly would typically be adored.
But seemingly at this moment that's not the "English way"
Either that or he's actually just crap and for some reason I'm unable to see it.
I agree with the OP - @Josep Dowling.
Why focus on him? It's utterly ridiculous to blame our woes on him and single him out time and time again.
Pogba has played or worked closely with McClair, Ferguson, Conte, Allegri, Jose, Ole & Deschamps... A who's who of modern day great managers pretty much for the most part. The only manager to report anything like bad behavior, being disruptive, a "virus" is who?
I'll tell you who, a manager who fell out with a who's who of great modern day players. Weather it was Casillias, Pepe, Ramos, Ronaldo, Hazard, Eto'o, Kaka, Costa...and then there was United.. where he fell out with Shaw, Martial, Bailly, Lukaku & of course Pogba. By then end his only go to guy was Matic.
The reality of Pogba's playing ability is this and its a truth our fan base can't and don't seem to want to accept, is that Pogba is not a box to box midfielder in the mold of Keane or Vieira. He is best utilized in a midfield trio on the left side and slightly up the pitch. I personally don't want to see him busting a lung running back to block a shot, leave that to Herrera or Matic who's job it is to do.
Our chances created, shots and goals have all dried up in recent times. Why? It wouldn't just so happen to be because Herrera got injured and hasn't kicked a ball since almost a month ago on March 30th vs Watford. With Herrera being out, Pogba in turn is being asked to sit deeper along side Matic and in turn our attacking outlet has dried up completely.
Basically what I'm saying is, Pogba is having to do the leg work that Herrera did and masked Matic's failings! Matic is like Old Yeller at this point and needs putting down, his legs are gone. He turns slower than the titanic!
When Pogba has more crosses than Lingard and half as many as Lingard and Martial and Lingard combined, when he is our top scorer, top assister, top creator, top pass completion and a myriad of other performance metrics he isn't the problem.
As I pointed out on his player thread, Pogba is currently out performing Yaya Toure at the same point of his career in the premier league (3 seasons in).
Typical of many modern day supporters, instant gratification toss pots and when if he were to feck off to Madrid I wouldn't blame Pogba in the slightest as our fans routinely abuse him at games and social media, he'll likely go on to win balon d'or and the same folks slating him will then say Woodward was a tool for selling him!
Why focus on him? It's utterly ridiculous to blame our woes on him and single him out time and time again.
Pogba has played or worked closely with McClair, Ferguson, Conte, Allegri, Jose, Ole & Deschamps... A who's who of modern day great managers pretty much for the most part. The only manager to report anything like bad behavior, being disruptive, a "virus" is who?
I'll tell you who, a manager who fell out with a who's who of great modern day players. Weather it was Casillias, Pepe, Ramos, Ronaldo, Hazard, Eto'o, Kaka, Costa...and then there was United.. where he fell out with Shaw, Martial, Bailly, Lukaku & of course Pogba. By then end his only go to guy was Matic.
The reality of Pogba's playing ability is this and its a truth our fan base can't and don't seem to want to accept, is that Pogba is not a box to box midfielder in the mold of Keane or Vieira. He is best utilized in a midfield trio on the left side and slightly up the pitch. I personally don't want to see him busting a lung running back to block a shot, leave that to Herrera or Matic who's job it is to do.
Our chances created, shots and goals have all dried up in recent times. Why? It wouldn't just so happen to be because Herrera got injured and hasn't kicked a ball since almost a month ago on March 30th vs Watford. With Herrera being out, Pogba in turn is being asked to sit deeper along side Matic and in turn our attacking outlet has dried up completely.
Basically what I'm saying is, Pogba is having to do the leg work that Herrera did and masked Matic's failings! Matic is like Old Yeller at this point and needs putting down, his legs are gone. He turns slower than the titanic!
When Pogba has more crosses than Lingard and half as many as Lingard and Martial and Lingard combined, when he is our top scorer, top assister, top creator, top pass completion and a myriad of other performance metrics he isn't the problem.
As I pointed out on his player thread, Pogba is currently out performing Yaya Toure at the same point of his career in the premier league (3 seasons in).
Typical of many modern day supporters, instant gratification toss pots and when if he were to feck off to Madrid I wouldn't blame Pogba in the slightest as our fans routinely abuse him at games and social media, he'll likely go on to win balon d'or and the same folks slating him will then say Woodward was a tool for selling him!
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Despicable. A virus.
Why? I cant see it. By all accounts he's a nice guy who gets on with everybody. He trains well, doesnt drink and is very professional in how he goes about things.
Why do you think he has despicable personality features?
What absolute bo**icks!!
Jose has made a living out abusing players and receiving pay offs! The man is pure poison and a cancer on football. Weather its his style of play or his off the field antics by falling out with boards, supporters and players its all the same to him, just means a massive pay off in the end.
He fell out with Lukaku as well - https://www.independent.ie/sport/so...he-didnt-start-the-fa-cup-final-36962206.html
His go to guy by the end was Matic! He had no one else basically. The back room and staff like the cleaning ladies and receptionists even hated having him there. He showed up at the Munich anniversary in a feckin tracksuit and the board was fuming with him.
Sacked by Chelsea twice for same reasons and even had the temerity to actually blame Ronaldo for his failings
VS
Pogba
Played / Worked with McClair, Ferguson, Conte, Allegri, Jose, Ole and Deschamps...7 managers, only 1 to have complained about him. A manager who is pure poison to any almost any club he comes in contact with bar Porto & Inter.
There's a clear common theme here of one being a problem and the other not... I'll leave it to you to figure out which one.
Obvious is, if the team played poorly then Pogba will play poorly but you can see the quality in him when he's trying to do something.
I think inconsistently is overrated. Inconsistently is not Pogba's problem as it was more of a team who lacked consistency and quality than Pogba. If we played better as together, Pogba will thrive, as long as we have consistently played so well, Pogba will thrive more, he needs quality consistently players around him to thrive. if we swapped Pogba for KDB in United team, we'd be arguing the same problem we have for Pogba, "Oh god, KDB is so inconsistently, awful attitude and lack of effort. We should try to do something where KDB is good at, he can't play in 2 man midfield. We should sell him for 150m to invest in quality" without realizing that half of the team is very poor quality with the likes of Smalling, Lingard, Young, Matic, etc playing in the team with Martial and Rashford being inconsistent. No one can deliver consistent performance over EPL 38 games apart from Shaw, Lindelof and De Gea who could bring 7/10 consistent performance.
if United played more consistently and winning a majority of games connivingly in the season and see Pogba being poor and inconsistent, that's fair enough but it hasn't happened, we haven't been very consistent as City, PSG and Juve do but when we do, Pogba was one of best players.
I think inconsistently is overrated. Inconsistently is not Pogba's problem as it was more of a team who lacked consistency and quality than Pogba. If we played better as together, Pogba will thrive, as long as we have consistently played so well, Pogba will thrive more, he needs quality consistently players around him to thrive. if we swapped Pogba for KDB in United team, we'd be arguing the same problem we have for Pogba, "Oh god, KDB is so inconsistently, awful attitude and lack of effort. We should try to do something where KDB is good at, he can't play in 2 man midfield. We should sell him for 150m to invest in quality" without realizing that half of the team is very poor quality with the likes of Smalling, Lingard, Young, Matic, etc playing in the team with Martial and Rashford being inconsistent. No one can deliver consistent performance over EPL 38 games apart from Shaw, Lindelof and De Gea who could bring 7/10 consistent performance.
if United played more consistently and winning a majority of games connivingly in the season and see Pogba being poor and inconsistent, that's fair enough but it hasn't happened, we haven't been very consistent as City, PSG and Juve do but when we do, Pogba was one of best players.
Don't get that at all.
Very easy to predict that response. He had so much of a falling out with Lukaku after the FA cup that he played virtually every game before he got sacked. It seems you don't have the critical thinking to understand what a disagreement and falling out are.
Then you go on some ridiculous tangent about who was poison when that is completely irrelevant. You basically try to divert any conversation to talking about who the 'problem' is. Just more simplistic thinking.
Pogba and Mourinho had a falling out because Mou was a complete twat to him, especially with what he did with that captaincy. He did not treat anyone like he did Pogba, Pogba got targeted for a lot of his anger and this led to a falling out. Despite Lukaku and Matic playing like league 1 footballers this season he refused to drop them, he however dropped Pogba a long time before that. Anyone that thinks he fell out with Lukaku is ignorant, he was one of his trusted players until his sacking.
I agree completely. The club gets no peace. There is always some commotion and disturbances, apparently.
Pogba was brilliant for France in the World cup when he was surrounded by first class players. Now he's surrounded by second rate tossers and is unable to carry the team, he's vilified.
What were his options but to play certain players like Lukaku? He didn't favor youth, never has. So Martial and Rashford weren't options to him, so he flogged a dead horse with Lukaku. Same as in any job, employees often fall out with managers, they can't always leave instantly and they are stuck working together in the same team after the fall out.
The same applies with many of the players Jose has fallen out with at different clubs. I mean there are only 2 windows now to move players on so what choice is there really but to play them until then?
Ridiculous tangent? The whole thread is about sections of our supporter base pointing the finger of blame at a certain individual named Pogba. They are saying like you Pogba is the problem, he isn't.
No, he fell out with Pogba because he expected him to defend more, when almost every other manager who has managed Pogba can see that's a fruitless request as his best attributes are further up field.
Do me a favor, read this article and try come back and tell me this is absolute nothing like the Pogba / Jose fall out.
A sample quote from the article below from Ronaldo....
Eerily familiar to Pogba's comments aren't they about being too defensive at home for which he was reprimanded and told not to talk like this again in the media.
Extremely tame in comparison to say stuff Rooney or Keane came out with back in the day.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/apr/28/cristiano-ronaldo-jose-mourinho-defensive
Hahaha what a stupid post!
What despicable personality traits does he have? You don’t even know the man!
“Oh he likes to dance and mess around with his mates, he’s bad for the club”
Jesus
enjoy BrexitPretty sure someone recently said Pogba was often late (Shaw maybe?)
There's no smoke without fire and while he's often referred to as a polite boy I don't doubt a lot of the negative stuff Mourinho especially said about him
The fact he left United the first time will always be held against him as well, as will his choice in representative. Then there's the constant transfer stories and the fact just visibly you can see he doesn't put the same shift in in midfield as other top midfielders in the PL
In fact this is actually a strange thread because it's quite clear why he's the focus and not just because of the above but also due to his transfer fee and his 'brand'
I've read the opposite on his timekeeping. But if you vaguely remember someone (Shaw maybe) saying it it must be true.
No smoke without fire. Jose would never talk shit about someone.
Mark Hughes left and came back. Unacceptable when its Pogba though.
You dont like his agent. Zlatan's agent also. Bad sign obviously.
You can visibly see a lack of effort. He was in the team of the season as voted by the players.
Transfer stories written by the media. Feckin hell Paul!
Some crap about his brand. The club must hate making all that money selling all those shirts.
I can see why people focus on him. Because they are very easily led.
The bigger question is would we have beaten them with him...
Unless you are in the dressing room you can't judge this.
If he wants to go then by all means get big money and replace.
If he wants to stay he is worth keeping.
Simple as that for me.
If he wants to go then by all means get big money and replace.
If he wants to stay he is worth keeping.
Simple as that for me.
We didn't beat Sevilla without him.
Probably because people keep insisting on telling us that we should "build the team" around him. If you want a player to be the centre of attention you can't really come back moaning when they are the centre of attention.
The reason pundits and others think he is a bad influence in the dressing room might be something to do with him doing stuff like walking into the press zone and telling the media he can't say what he wants to. Or posting nonsense on his social media which seemed to be designed to undermine or voice his discontent with the manager...are we just ignoring or pretending this didn't happen now?
I don't actually think he is the cause of all our problems, although I think the possibility is open that he is indicative of them...but it remains to be seen. I don't think he can be blamed for the recent poor form as the whole team has stepped down a gear.
What annoys me more is the people who wont stop harping on about how he's our best player, and resorting to blaming everyone else for his perceived failings and refusing to accept that any team criticism should apply to him. We were a team that struggled to finish in the top four when he arrived. We are a team that struggles to finish in the top four now. So in reality the best you can say about Pogba in terms of his impact on the team, is that he's adequately replaced the ageing version of Wayne Rooney (who actually was more productive than Pogba in terms of goals, assists and application). Yet from a lot of the posts on here you'd think Pogba is akin to Lionel Messi in terms of his importance.
If he played well every week, or most weeks, he would not get criticised. If we weren't told constantly that he's our best player, he might get criticised in proportion to everyone else, instead of being expected to be our best player every week. We are creating a situation where he is built up as something he will never be able to be and then shot down for not being it.
We couldn't beat Brighton with him...or Derby Country without him. When you start to think about it this is a silly argument.
My point is he isn't the be all and end all either way.
I did and I stand by it, Raheem Sterling had it, my brother supports Liverpool and says that Sturridge has the same image problem amongst their fans (from the outside looking in all I've ever seen is Sturridge talking about God). And if we bounce to other sports I could pull numerous other examples. It's often hard to relate to something that you perhaps haven't experienced...
The PSG tie keeps deluding our fans. With or without Pogba, without luck we never get past them. It's crazy how some think we played that well
The delusion works both ways which is where I kind of agree with the thread starter.
The bottom line is we aren't a significantly better or worse team than we were before we signed Pogba. Yet from the contrasting opinions you would think he is either as important as Messi or is akin to signing a work avoiding psychopath and forcing all the players to be best friends with him.
Which is why I'll be fine if we sell him providing the fee is interesting enough to build our team afterwards, if a club wants at a low price then they can piss off as far as I'm concerned.
I just notice this trend on the caf that when those rumors surface, there is something almost similar to character assassination regarding Pogba that I find needless. You can want him out without turning him into a force of evil corrupting the club from within
I dont need to have been through something to empathise with it. I have eyes, I have ears, I have critical thinking. So while pogba most definitely will be getting racial abuse in his life, thats not the driving force behind peoples issues with him currently. And to suggest that it is, is just a bullshit way to shut down a conversation.
Its the effort that was on display, not the talent or amazing set pieces. I watch a group of guys play as a team, even when we were getting put over the knee. If we can like that without him, why should we be bending over for him when he wont give that effort? A couple of moments here and there isnt good enough for a world class player. Not by a long shot.
True.
He's not the be all and end all. But take him out of our team and we have a real problem with creativity imo.
I'm not sure people get this. We need to be adding players of his class not losing them.
There have been games where we showed the same level of effort with him too. It's all about being fair in assessing a player, have the fans wanted more from him ? Sure, without a doubt but does that mean he didn't display great work discipline and sacrifice in many games ? Hell no. It's all too black and white with Pogba on the caf, no middle ground whatsoever
This
We will have been midtable this season without pogba. Only hazard has won more points for his team. So it's impossible to say he didn't do his job.
I did think that Pogba had a decline in form after the first PSG game. We won some games when he played bad and pretty much everyone was positive. Then a lot of other players drop form and De Gea gives away goals in every game.
I have a hard time seeing that most of our recent problems is due to Pogba. I thought he played well against both City and Barcelona personally. Against Everton pretty much everyone played poor though. Our midfield has been the least of our problem recently. De Gea, strikers, wingers, fullbacks (Young and Dalot) have been the main reasons to our decline. Pogba has played some nice balls that could have been assists too. He is not a player to score goals on his own either.
I don't think we can blame other players dropping in form on Pogba. It is on themselfes and maybe the manager if the man management is not good enough. If Pogba has a negative attitude that destroys everyone around him then Ole needs to bloody drop him. Although he has only talked positive about Pogba and played him in all games. He might not be a leader or a guy that lifts the players around him though, but that is really nothing new.
I have a hard time seeing that most of our recent problems is due to Pogba. I thought he played well against both City and Barcelona personally. Against Everton pretty much everyone played poor though. Our midfield has been the least of our problem recently. De Gea, strikers, wingers, fullbacks (Young and Dalot) have been the main reasons to our decline. Pogba has played some nice balls that could have been assists too. He is not a player to score goals on his own either.
I don't think we can blame other players dropping in form on Pogba. It is on themselfes and maybe the manager if the man management is not good enough. If Pogba has a negative attitude that destroys everyone around him then Ole needs to bloody drop him. Although he has only talked positive about Pogba and played him in all games. He might not be a leader or a guy that lifts the players around him though, but that is really nothing new.
All the negative attention is on Pogba because - and this won't be popular - he is a young and successful black guy who oozes self confidence. The media has propagated a lot of myths about him as a result of this and football fans are happy to swallow the narrative.
Edit: I am a massive Pogba critic and think he's hugely inconsistent, but I can still see he's a magic player surrounded by dross and the mistreatment of him by the football community smacks of the same thing that has been happening with Sterling until recently.
Edit: I am a massive Pogba critic and think he's hugely inconsistent, but I can still see he's a magic player surrounded by dross and the mistreatment of him by the football community smacks of the same thing that has been happening with Sterling until recently.
Not of late he hasn’t, with the exception of the city game. Even then only the first half. You think he’s done fine, I disagree. There’s people think Lingard is our future, I disagree and they have a list of things he’s great at. People see what they want to see.