No Love
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- Jun 9, 2013
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It’s only passing, thankfully. It’s not like it’s anything important when it comes to football.
The manager sets us up in this way that #6 does not have any passing options to progress the ball. It's been evident since the first game of the season.The midfield set up is laughable.
I seen a heat map from today where Mainoo was basically on the CBs, the other midfielders were close to the striker and we had nothing on the right.
We don’t have players who want the ball.
We just keep doing the same mistakes the whole season.If EtH’s master plan is to eventually rely more on the wing(s) and do away with the midfield, then why didn’t the wingers run back and help more. Mainoo was basically isolated for the second Spurs goal as far as I could tell, Rashford was too far forward along with Erikson and Bruno.
The manager sets us up in this way that #6 does not have any passing options to progress the ball. It's been evident since the first game of the season.
Bruno is not the answer for that, I don't trust him on the ball just like I did not trust Pogba. Mainoo or Mount maybe are the answer but it seems to me like ETH is setting us up to play through wings rather than through the middle.
Its one of those weird things, this really has been an issue since before Fergie left, yeah we had Scholes and Carrick who could hit a good diagonal ball. But for the most part our inter changing passing in the final third was not great and out build up play was sluggish.
It deteriorated under Moyes (what didn't).
LVG came in and tried to train us do play possession football, but sloths could of moved the ball quicker than us, so he basically reverted to hoofing it to Fellaini when ever possible.
Then we had Mourinho, who had zero interest in improving our passing his plan was to sit back and try to nick a goal or 2.
Ole again just wanted us to counter attack,
Rangnick by most accounts treated the players like kids in training because he felt they were so badly coached and like children they rebelled.
And Ten Hag has come in and abandoned his Ajax tactics because he clearly doesn't think the players are capable of playing quick passing triangles.
Like most of our problems it just points to severe cultural problems at the club.
We point at the managers again and again, but I think the truth is neither our owners nor our fans have had the heart for open heart surgery - and the patience demanded i nreconvalecence.
Yeah I agree, I don’t think the level of gutting required is ever going to happen.We point at the managers again and again, but I think the truth is neither our owners nor our fans have had the heart for open heart surgery - and the patience demanded i nreconvalecence.
We buy and .. well I was about to say sell but we rarely sell players, but we at least buy a lot of players and spend a lot of money. But no matter how much we spend, who is the manager the problems are the same, yeah we can hit a half decent counter attack, but ask us to retain the ball, break down a defense as a cohesive team, move the ball quickly around midfield, or even position ourselves correctly in defense then we just can't do it. We just always look like a disjointed team no matter who the manager is and who the players are.I'd argue that we always have open heart surgery with terrible surgeons.
Moyes had 2 signings sold/ released 0 in 1 season, Van Gaal bought 13 sold/released 15 in 2 seasons, Mourinho bought 11 sold/released 9 in 2.5 seasons, Ole bought 12 sold/released 9, and Ten Haag has bought 9 and signed/releeased 11 in 1.5 seasons. That's a lot of turnover for 5 permanent managers. Meanwhile in that time span Barca/Bayern/Chelsea/Madrid have had similar amount of manager with success, yet still felt the need to replace them. Ours have failed and we have fans talking about stability and time.
To break it down further on average our managers have signed 9.4 players and have sold 8.8 players. That is almost an entire 11 per manager. Yet people still blame the players despite stark changes in squad profile from season to season. For clarification, these figures do not include players that weren't included in the squads regularly/ or had playing time. So keepers like Bayindir are not included.
The club may not be the best structured, but with the lack of success of these managers after leaving us and the number of players they bought and sold, people need to be honest and admit that these managers are mostly to blame for our problems on the pitch over the years. We keep failing managers, who struggled throughout their tenures for way too long. This also explains our spending. Every summer is a war chest to cover gaps in their previous seasons. A lot of these purchases were high figure purchases with high profile talented being delivered. None of our managers, even Moyes, can say they didn't receive at least one high profile signing. Arteta literally got one this season with the signing of Rice after 3 years. Liverpool's first under Klopp was Van Dijk in 2018, 2.5 seasons into Klopp's reign.
This was Ragnicks big issue when he came in. All the report were he spent ages basically just going over the basics of positioning and how to defend as a team because it was clearly an Issue. And the players just briefed against him and acted like children because he had hired an American coach who obviously had to be like Ted Lasso.I'm far more concerned with our inability to do the defensive basics. Our positions and unwillingness to pressure or tackle have cost us so many goals this season. I don't like this group of players and I have to support them.
We buy and .. well I was about to say sell but we rarely sell players, but we at least buy a lot of players and spend a lot of money. But no matter how much we spend, who is the manager the problems are the same, yeah we can hit a half decent counter attack, but ask us to retain the ball, break down a defense as a cohesive team, move the ball quickly around midfield, or even position ourselves correctly in defense then we just can't do it. We just always look like a disjointed team no matter who the manager is and who the players are.
Plus no matter who we buy, no matter who the manager is players just seem to come in and regress. This goes back a decade. You can't have the same issues no matter who the manager is and who the players are and it not be something that runs much deeper.
So this isn't just a current players issue or a current manager and his first team coaching staff issue, or even just issues with people like Murtough and Fletcher. The surgery we need isn't just players (though we obviously need address the squad attitude), the surgery we need is in the deeplying issues at the club. Everything from the coaching and training philosophy, to recruitments, youth training, Physio, catering, facilities needs a proper gutting out and investigation.
This is it, the rest of your post highlights it significantly. Fans are looking at this too narrow minded to objectively consider all the moving parts. Club philosophy is supposed to come from the hierarchy not the manager. Because the entire clubs structure has to reflect the directive of that philosophy at various levels from recruitment to the coaching.
Look at the players that have been acquired in the last two major windows and see if there's any consensus behind the approach for the first team to be identified as one that keeps possession. I've said this throughout the summer United are putting a team together not building one. Who knows what the scope of the first team is in the next five years. There's a very momentary feel about how the club conduct themselves nothing is definitive.
This was Ragnicks big issue when he came in. All the report were he spent ages basically just going over the basics of positioning and how to defend as a team because it was clearly an Issue. And the players just briefed against him and acted like children because he had hired an American coach who obviously had to be like Ted Lasso.
Here we are over 2 years later, with some new players a new manger, different coaching staff and the same issues.
So you're telling me Spurs just instantly changed their entire club top-down structure, hierarchy, philosophy as well as their manager in six months? No, all they did was change the manager. Same with Villa. Completely different play style within months of Emery coming in. Has nothing to do with them making some major alterations to their behind-the-scenes structure, philosophy or anything else. Villa haven't been devising a master plan for Emery behind the scenes for ten years or whatever. They've just been getting any manager who'll walk through the door for the past decade. Same goes for Spurs. They've had Mourinho and Conte back to back. There's been zero structural preparation for Ange's style behind the scenes. They were to the point where'd they'd take almost any manager who'd agree a contract. There was no complex structural planning. They've just been scatter-gunning managers for years with no thought of their style. And in terms of player staff, all Ange and Emery had to work with were the motley bunches bought by several managers they found when they arrived there. There had been no five-year structural and transfer planning for Ange's and Emery's arrivals or whatever. They both just got on with the job with the players they had and the morons behind the scenes who were there. Decent managers do that. Our post-Fergie idiots haven't been able to do that, besides LvG who was trying to implement a play style.
Ange came into a side that was notoriously bad in possession under Mourinho/Conte. Spurs turn up at Old Trafford today with an injury crisis of their own and have 64% of the ball.
I can't believe how little progress ETH has made in improving us in possession. We still can't string 3 passes together, players themselves don't trust any to be able to keep the ball so it's just constant hollywood passes over the top of the opposition defence.
We point at the managers again and again, but I think the truth is neither our owners nor our fans have had the heart for open heart surgery - and the patience demanded i nreconvalecence.
Because Bruno.
No effort to keep things ticking, to remain calm, to stay composed and try to control possession for a minute or two, to frustrate the other side. He demands the ball all the time and every time he gets it the only thing in his head instantly is; killer pass, killer pass, killer pass, killer pass. It rarely works, obviously, so that leads to the opposition instantly getting it back and swarming us.
I'd fecking love for him to be dropped to see if Mount can be a more composed creator. I'm sick and tired of Mr. Moments.
The rest of our squad just doesn’t have the technical ability in tight areas. A lot of the blame is on “the United way”.
It used to work to counter with plenty of chaotic moments. These days it’s just not viable to win every week.
Because Bruno.
No effort to keep things ticking, to remain calm, to stay composed and try to control possession for a minute or two, to frustrate the other side. He demands the ball all the time and every time he gets it the only thing in his head instantly is; killer pass, killer pass, killer pass, killer pass. It rarely works, obviously, so that leads to the opposition instantly getting it back and swarming us.
I'd fecking love for him to be dropped to see if Mount can be a more composed creator. I'm sick and tired of Mr. Moments.
I think Bruno can be a valuable member of the squad but he has nobody on the pitch to be accountable to, and he doesn't have the level of calm and intelligence to do it himself. I remember last season there were times when Casemiro had words with him. We need more characters like that. And Bruno should not be captain.
... the surgery we need is in the deeplying issues at the club. Everything from the coaching and training philosophy, to recruitments, youth training, Physio, catering, facilities needs a proper gutting out and investigation.
That first half... Unbelievable really. Hot potato football at it's finest.
Ball retention of a Sunday league side.
Whilst the technical quality of our players is clearly an issue, it's clear Ten Hag's instructions are to try and score as quickly as possible every time we win the ball back. This has resulted in our players rushing everything they do, so many one time passes and flicks because we have no patience in the build up, a tendency to play killer passes when the pass isn't even on. All of this leads to endless turnovers which the opposition take advantage of and why our defending looks so bad.
I've said it for years, every time the opposition has a chance on our goal, rewind the clock 10 seconds and watch one of our players needlessly lose the ball in easy possession.
We play a 4-4-2, that does not help.That first half... Unbelievable really. Hot potato football at it's finest.
Ball retention of a Sunday league side.
Whilst the technical quality of our players is clearly an issue, it's clear Ten Hag's instructions are to try and score as quickly as possible every time we win the ball back. This has resulted in our players rushing everything they do, so many one time passes and flicks because we have no patience in the build up, a tendency to play killer passes when the pass isn't even on. All of this leads to endless turnovers which the opposition take advantage of and why our defending looks so bad.
I've said it for years, every time the opposition has a chance on our goal, rewind the clock 10 seconds and watch one of our players needlessly lose the ball in easy possession.
We play a 4-4-2, that does not help.
?Do we do much passing when out of possession?
When we have the ball we are defo 4-4-2. Bruno is almost never in midfield, hes next to our striker.The formation is 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 when out of possession.
When we have the ball we aren't in a 442
When we have the ball we are defo 4-4-2. Bruno is almost never in midfield, hes next to our striker.
Correct. In possesion we are 3-1-2-4/3-2-5. With a fullback inverted either into Tue double pivot or as the second attacking midfielder.The formation is 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 when out of possession.
When we have the ball we aren't in a 442
I refuse to blame "tactically rushing it" on players failing to find a team mate in space with a 5-10 yard pass repeatedly like on a loop. Yesterday wasn't a coaching issue. It was players being straight up unprofessional and indiscipline. Playing with no fear or respect for the head coach on the bench. They weren't taking any due care in basic fundamentals. Signs of them either not caring any longer/not beleiving in the game plan. So just playing for themselves rather than as a collective. Constantly passing on responsibility to a team mate till a ball went out or a teammate got pisssed off at chasing shadows and just took out an opponent. In and out of possesionThat first half... Unbelievable really. Hot potato football at it's finest.
Ball retention of a Sunday league side.
Whilst the technical quality of our players is clearly an issue, it's clear Ten Hag's instructions are to try and score as quickly as possible every time we win the ball back. This has resulted in our players rushing everything they do, so many one time passes and flicks because we have no patience in the build up, a tendency to play killer passes when the pass isn't even on. All of this leads to endless turnovers which the opposition take advantage of and why our defending looks so bad.
I've said it for years, every time the opposition has a chance on our goal, rewind the clock 10 seconds and watch one of our players needlessly lose the ball in easy possession.