Why the silence?

[Eriku]

I've wondered if there was an issue with the composition of the proposed league caused by members joining for different reasons. So they could all sign up to the theory, but when it came to defending it. I'm not sure there was a homogeneous answer they could all give. Some desperatly needed the cash. Others joined because they didn't want to be left out but weren't particulalry enthusiastic. Others were just surprised they were invited so didn't want to rock the boat. It's very difficult to get an agreed response to such significant pushbak when the team itself is so fragmented. I wonder if they simply couldn't reach an agreement on a response and that was the reason for the delay, then it all simply ran away from them.

Tbh surely they’d be comfortable parroting the same lines if they get the end result. Don’t think clubs were having integrity issues around justifying statements.

 

[Erebus]

Tbh surely they’d be comfortable parroting the same lines if they get the end result. Don’t think clubs were having integrity issues around justifying statements.

Not sure. I suspect those who were not too keen on the idea to begin with might not be happy with any wording that Perez might have come up with. They were getting enough grief off their fans and might not want to compound it by saying the wrong thing - look at the reaction by United fans to the clubs announcement with no apology. Words were really important at that time.

 

[nimic]

I get the feeling this was a smoke and mirrors stunt too. It was just too amateurish for words.

If so, then it was a smoke and mirrors stunt which has done massive PR damage and possibly forced the authorities to take action. I'd argue it was a massive cock-up either way.

 

[Red Diva]

I think a lot of it is down to the arrogance of the American owners. I recently read an article by Henry Bushnell in which he quoted from a conversation four years ago with Paul Stillitano. Stillitano said ‘we own your game’.

 

[ReddBalls]

If we’re going with leaks as deliberate sabotage that surely had to come from one of the oil rich clubs?

Rumenigge is a known shit stirrer. It would not surprise me if it was him. Props to him in that case!

 

[ReddBalls]

I've been wondering this and cant believe it was incompetency. These are highly intelligent business owners. You don't become billionaires if you're incompetent.

That's a myth. There's a lot of stupid rich people. Some of these owners have inherited everything they own. You don't have to be intelligent and you don't have to be competent to inherit money. You certainly don't have to be competent at anything else than screwing other people for money to be rich either.

 

[Traub]

That's a myth. There's a lot of stupid rich people. Some of these owners have inherited everything they own. You don't have to be intelligent and you don't have to be competent to inherit money. You vertainly don't have to be competent at anything else than screing other people for money to be rich either.

And some of them even become the most powerful person in the world. Not that farfetched to think they're idiots.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That's a myth. There's a lot of stupid rich people. Some of these owners have inherited everything they own. You don't have to be intelligent and you don't have to be competent to inherit money. You certainly don't have to be competent at anything else than screwing other people for money to be rich either.

Stupid rich people can hire smart people to advise them. I don’t expect Joel Glazer to map out a PR strategy but I’m staggered at how badly this was handled by his, very well paid, head of Comms.

 

[UpWithRivers]

That's a myth. There's a lot of stupid rich people. Some of these owners have inherited everything they own. You don't have to be intelligent and you don't have to be competent to inherit money. You certainly don't have to be competent at anything else than screwing other people for money to be rich either.

Even if that were true. Its more than 1 person. Its all the top people at all the top clubs plus their staff - they have PR teams, Finance teams and on and on. Hundreds of the top people. And the are all stupid and incompetent?

 

[ReddBalls]

Stupid rich people can hire smart people to advise them. I don’t expect Joel Glazer to map out a PR strategy but I’m staggered at how badly this was handled by his, very well paid, head of Comms.

It doesn't help hiring smart people if you don't listen to them, which would have been the smart thing to do. Anyways, the poster stated that you had to be intelligent to be a billionaire and that is just flat out wrong.

 

[ReddBalls]

Even if that were true. Its more than 1 person. Its all the top people at all the top clubs plus their staff - they have PR teams, Finance teams and on and on. Hundreds of the top people. And the are all stupid and incompetent?

Obviously not, and that's not what i wrote either.

 

[golden_blunder]

Eyes on the money, forgot about the detail

maybe it broke before they were ready

 

[bosnian_red]

I think they're just that stubbornly deluded into thinking that supporters are selfish and only care for themselves, so they thought "hey, the majority who support these few clubs, you'll always be in the biggest competition so forget the rest". I genuinely think they're that out of touch with reality. Look at Perez's interview last night. It's insane. He's literally saying they don't earn enough money so are losing money (heres a thought, why not spend less than you earn?), that nobody cares about it when small clubs are involved, that the fans want to see them sign Haaland and Mbappe but that's not possible without the super league... its fecked up.

And then you look at the American owners. They move franchises around like nothing. Stan Kroenke has done the exact thing with the Rams in the NFL. They don't give a feck about fan protests, they just do it. They never expected it to be this big of an outrage though, that the government would get involved, that the fans would protest and it'd have the backlash that it did.

Evidently given how it all turned out (especially with how quickly they backed out even though they'll definitely lose millions), they are just completely inept and that much out of touch with reality and in their own bubble.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

On a side note, stuff like this really brings home how silly conspiracy theories are. The idea that governments and corporations are playing genius 3D chess - while keeping all us sheeple blissfully unaware - is hilarious when you see how often they a) are riddled with leaks and b) get basic shit so spectacularly wrong.

 

[Enigma_87]

I think they're just that stubbornly deluded into thinking that supporters are selfish and only care for themselves, so they thought "hey, the majority who support these few clubs, you'll always be in the biggest competition so forget the rest". I genuinely think they're that out of touch with reality. Look at Perez's interview last night. It's insane. He's literally saying they don't earn enough money so are losing money (heres a thought, why not spend less than you earn?), that nobody cares about it when small clubs are involved, that the fans want to see them sign Haaland and Mbappe but that's not possible without the super league... its fecked up.

And then you look at the American owners. They move franchises around like nothing. Stan Kroenke has done the exact thing with the Rams in the NFL. They don't give a feck about fan protests, they just do it. They never expected it to be this big of an outrage though, that the government would get involved, that the fans would protest and it'd have the backlash that it did.

Evidently given how it all turned out (especially with how quickly they backed out even though they'll definitely lose millions), they are just completely inept and that much out of touch with reality and in their own bubble.

That was the key here. Protests will always be there. Doubt that what Chelsea fans did changed their mind. Most likely they cut a deal with UEFA (the talk about them bringing more money in) and problems with legislation.

Sooner or later they will try again and learn from those mistakes. Just iron the idea, get even 30-40% of the fanbase on board and the money will swing it. They won't care about traditions, the game or protests. It was an ill prepared coup that again will get them off the hook and rebuild the idea behind closed doors.

 

[slored1]

Unless the whole thing was a massive distraction?

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

This guy must be the biggest contrarian on football Twitter. A legit troll. Look at his feed, there's only moaning involved. The same on the Football Weekly pod.

 

[Zehner]

I believe all this stemmed from those American business people comparing the revenue charts of European football leagues with American sports leagues like the NHL or NBA and thinking "damn, football is more popular than those sports and it still makes far less money. Imagine football with American tournament modes!" This probably went on for years. They probably identified the growth limiting factors like fewer games, taxes for grassroots football, etc. and wanted to eliminate them. Probably thought that this would be very innovative and revolutionary. But real innovation comes from the people and isn't pushed down their throat in a top down manner. Modern innovation techniques build on pitching your concepts early on to your target group, collecting feedback, optimizing and repeating. They didn't do anything like that and had absolutely no idea of the psychology and motivations behind how and why European fans consume football. That it is much more tribal and diversified, that people care for their clubs first and the hunger for the big games and sensations comes after that.

I imagine that they thought they would disrupt European football, that their model is the natural evolution when in fact the European model is a far more innovative since, from a business perspective, it puts stronger emphasis on the target group - the football fans.

 

[Giant Midget]

This guy must be the biggest contrarian on football Twitter. A legit troll. Look at his feed, there's only moaning involved. The same on the Football Weekly pod.

He's insufferable. But then again, Sunderland fan, what else can you expect?

 

[Tincanalley]

I believe all this stemmed from those American business people comparing the revenue charts of European football leagues with American sports leagues like the NHL or NBA and thinking "damn, football is more popular than those sports and it still makes far less money. Imagine football with American tournament modes!" This probably went on for years. They probably identified the growth limiting factors like fewer games, taxes for grassroots football, etc. and wanted to eliminate them. Probably thought that this would be very innovative and revolutionary. But real innovation comes from the people and isn't pushed down their throat in a top down manner. Modern innovation techniques build on pitching your concepts early on to your target group, collecting feedback, optimizing and repeating. They didn't do anything like that and had absolutely no idea of the psychology and motivations behind how and why European fans consume football. That it is much more tribal and diversified, that people care for their clubs first and the hunger for the big games and sensations comes after that.

I imagine that they thought they would disrupt European football, that their model is the natural evolution when in fact the European model is a far more innovative since, from a business perspective, it puts stronger emphasis on the target group - the football fans.

Top post.

 

[Zehner]

Unless the whole thing was a massive distraction?

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

The same thought crossed my mind the other day but some of those people gave up very important decisions in the UEFA. Woodward resigned from his United job. Moreover, an argument that applies to every conspiracy theory, there would have to be so many people involved that it would be impossible to keep it secret.

Fernando Carro, Leverkusen's current CEO, was in the work group that designed the new CL format. He gave an interview at the sideline of our match against Bayern this week and he was genuinely pissed off by Agnelli and Woodward, especially since they made all these concessions to the elite clubs (e. g. the free starting positions based on merit).

Moreover, they wouldn't even need all this fuss for the CL reform, it would've gone through anyway. Just like the bigger CL pot.

 

[Nobby style]

Might as well start my own ESL thread, seeing as they’re all the rage.

Second Captains podcast made a great point. After the initial brief announcement (which had more or less the same wording from every club) there wasn’t a peep out of any of the clubs until they announced they were pulling out. Every big corporation knows the importance of PR. I work for a big corporation. When we’re about to break big news we produce a raft of media briefing materials and internal and external Q&A documents. We brief media spokespeople (shout out to the political correctness thread) and plan a media campaign from minute one over the next several days.

If Klopp et al had been properly briefed and came out with just a few lines about why this was good for the club it could have made a huge difference to the fans. Or how about wheeling out a club legend or two? Likewise a few interviews with carefully selected journalists on Monday or Tuesday morning. And God knows all these clubs have at least one journalist in their pocket. They just needed to move the needle a little bit to divide the fans more than they were and it might have been enough for them to get this across the line. This would have been made even easier when you think about how unpopular the revised CL format is likely to be, with big clubs getting byes into the competition “because heritage”. Yet that obvious comparison never got a mention, by anyone.

The whole thing seems like a catastrophic communications failure. I can’t understand how they dropped the ball so badly. What was the point of 48 hours of stubborn silence? Any theories? Some of these guys have run a number of very successful businesses. How did they drop the ball so badly?

Are you seriously asking this question?? Have you seen what's been going on around this club the last few years?? Moyes!!!!, last second signings of Di Maria and Falcao to play Van Gaal ball!!!, the absolute stupidity of bringing in the toxic ego of Mourinho!!! . . . even Ole seems to have been an accidental success as he was brought in to temporarily clean up after their absurdities. So much money wasted and so much damage to our standing and reputation. Do you really wonder how this lot dropped the ball so badly??? Incredible.

 

[Gasolin]

Unless the whole thing was a massive distraction?

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

A distraction that triggers people to resign? Hell no, it was just pure incompetency.

 

[slored1]

He's insufferable. But then again, Sunderland fan, what else can you expect?

Got to be the most annoying journalist in football sphere. Since the day the Super League was announced, most of his rage was aimed at Gary fecking Neville for speaking up.
He moans all the time, don't even think he likes the sport. Just a bitter bitter man.

 

[Zlatattack]

None of them are real football fans. They don't understand the culture. These are the sort of people who don't understand than an FA cup giant killing is every bit as entertaining as a sqashbuckling CL knockout tie between two of europes best clubs.

 

[Sky1981]

Exactly. This is going to be a case study of “how not to do it” in PR training for decades!

This made a bad case studies. This one is so dumb it's reeks questions of surely they csnt be that dumb they have something else up their sleeve.

 

[VeevaVee]

Guessing they knew they had to give UEFA as little chance to react as possible. But if they’d won the hearts and minds of the people over some time not sure that would have mattered.

Not to mention they probably spotted their chance and just went for it. I doubt it was always planned for this time.

 

[Sky1981]

None of them are real football fans. They don't understand the culture. These are the sort of people who don't understand than an FA cup giant killing is every bit as entertaining as a sqashbuckling CL knockout tie between two of europes best clubs.

I think their mistake is that they left the UEFA, and FA no choice but to bet it all on a big showdown.

Never corner your opponent, if they leave hints and blows rumors they might get some compromise. But what they proposed is basically a it's either you or us. No choice on UEFA even if they want to negotiate.

 

[Tincanalley]

Come on. They only had three years to prepare.

 

[Tincanalley]

I think their mistake is that they left the UEFA, and FA no choice but to bet it all on a big showdown.

Never corner your opponent, if they leave hints and blows rumors they might get some compromise. But what they proposed is basically a it's either you or us. No choice on UEFA even if they want to negotiate.

Art of war fan?

 

[Sky1981]

Art of war fan?

Sort of

 

[Harry190]

The silence was basically a fatal mistake, reading between the lines of the hundreds of articles around this it feels to me the Sunday announcement of the Superleague came far earlier than planned in an attempt to neutralise UEFA's planned announcement on the revamped Champion's League.

The Athletic reports how over the weekend they were desperately trying to arm twist PSG into signing up. The one line in the launch statement about the women's league which would have catapulted Liverpool from the second tier into top European competition and no mention of European Cup Holders Lyon! There was no broadcast partner signed up and as has been said above the managers and other club execs were briefed literally minutes before the announcement. This all smacks of a very last minute decision to launch.

The PR company responsible was InHouse, who were behind Boris' run for mayor and have worked for loads for huge companies from Sky to Starbucks. They are very slick professionals and there is no way this would have been the launch that they planned. I wonder if someone panicked over UEFA getting in there first with their Swiss format league and pulled the trigger demanding they get their announcement out before that. Then everyone was caught on the hop and the negative reaction very quickly snowballed. After the initial statements from Joel Glazer, Agnelli and Perez there was just silence. I can imagine InHouse were shouting for someone to stand up but noone did and to be fair there is no personality among these people, no Boris for example. But everyone knows if you leave a vacuum in communications it quickly gets filled by others trying to drive the narrative. So instead of preplanned friendly voices supporting the idea, the headlines went to Linekar, Neville and eventually Johnson for example. This is basic PR feck up 101.

What made it worse was that the people left in front of the cameras were the managers and the players, who had no idea. This quickly alientated them as well and as Pogue points out a bit of careful management with them for a proper planned announcement could have made a huge difference. Once the players, managers, fans and eventually government were isolated the game was over.

This wasn't overturned by fan power, this was a monumental feck up by the people launching it who rushed into it without planning it properly, they shot themselves in the face. It feels to me like one or two billionaires sitting behind their desk saying launch it now, despite all the professional advice around them saying we're not quite ready. Imagine how differently this could have gone with PSG on board the Germans open to accepting an invitation, as Pogue suggested friendly voices lined up to back it, this could easily have happened if they had got it right.

Good post.

 

[CG1010]

What also struck me as odd was the timing.. right during the business end of the season when ideally no club would like to distract their players while competing for trophies and achieving higher places in the league. Along with the fact that players and managers weren't kept in the loop. It seems to me that the 12 clubs hurried with the announcement, though not sure why. Perhaps they got carried away by managing to accumulate so many big names in club football.

 

[Tincanalley]

Peter Kenyon on The Atlantic podcast saying the United owners (and their ilk) are just clueless. They are all about moving to a lack of jeopardy - from a merit base to a franchise model. Football is not a franchise. They are frightened to death of relegation.

 

[WeePat]

The fact that they wanted to launch a new league and announced it via a couple of tweets in the middle of the night was really telling. A big, football landscape altering project like that with literally billions involved, you'd have thought a press conference of some kind in front of media was the appropriate thing to do. No balls to stand in front of the media.

 

[Tincanalley]

What if... Perez and Joel G cooked this up and drove it? Seems like they did. And what if...There was some friction between siblings in the MUFC boardroom? Most likely - if they were told about the plan - staff, maybe including Woodward, were lukewarm or resistant. That would explain a lot...

This is worthy of a separate post (or even a thread) but .... The JP Morgan Chase story is huge! It’s been missed to some extent by commentators here. Imagine a mega banker of this scale signing up for a daft adventure by the two likely lads and - on account of the collapse - finds itself downgraded!

The consequences of that are longer term. It impacts the whole US economy and will cost an incalculable amount.

That aspect is all yet to play out.

 

[Carl]

One thing is for certain, they'll do it properly next time.

 

[Zehner]

What if... Perez and Joel G cooked this up and drove it? Seems like they did. And what if...There was some friction between siblings in the MUFC boardroom? Most likely - if they were told about the plan - staff, maybe including Woodward, were lukewarm or resistant. That would explain a lot...

This is worthy of a separate post (or even a thread) but .... The JP Morgan Chase story is huge! It’s been missed to some extent by commentators here. Imagine a mega banker of this scale signing up for a daft adventure by the two likely lads and - on account of the collapse - finds itself downgraded!

The consequences of that are longer term. It impacts the whole US economy and will cost an incalculable amount.

That aspect is all yet to play out.

I have no idea how the consequences of the downgrade look like. I'm all for sustainability but I've never heard of that rating or Standard Ethics before and would've thought this has more of a symbolic value in a relatively cynical industry. What's the impact of it?

 

[DoomSlayer]

One thing is for certain, they'll do it properly next time.

And football will be officially dead, at least for me.

 

[Ali Dia]

One thing is for certain, they'll do it properly next time.

Keep protesting until the legislation around ownership changes or they agree to sell. If we stop or sit quietly you’re right they won’t mess up again.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Might as well start my own ESL thread, seeing as they’re all the rage.

Second Captains podcast made a great point. After the initial brief announcement (which had more or less the same wording from every club) there wasn’t a peep out of any of the clubs until they announced they were pulling out. Every big corporation knows the importance of PR. I work for a big corporation. When we’re about to break big news we produce a raft of media briefing materials and internal and external Q&A documents. We brief media spokespeople (shout out to the political correctness thread) and plan a media campaign from minute one over the next several days.

If Klopp et al had been properly briefed and came out with just a few lines about why this was good for the club it could have made a huge difference to the fans. Or how about wheeling out a club legend or two? Likewise a few interviews with carefully selected journalists on Monday or Tuesday morning. And God knows all these clubs have at least one journalist in their pocket. They just needed to move the needle a little bit to divide the fans more than they were and it might have been enough for them to get this across the line. This would have been made even easier when you think about how unpopular the revised CL format is likely to be, with big clubs getting byes into the competition “because heritage”. Yet that obvious comparison never got a mention, by anyone.

The whole thing seems like a catastrophic communications failure. I can’t understand how they dropped the ball so badly. What was the point of 48 hours of stubborn silence? Any theories? Some of these guys have run a number of very successful businesses. How did they drop the ball so badly?

agree completely.

Change needs to be managed, and the complete lack of a plan to inform/ publicise/ gain support from the fan base/ ex players, dare I say it… influencers was the real downfall of this.

we may still be talking about it if the likes of Gary Neville was either onboard, or read into the scenario so that he was able to discuss some of the positives rather than taking the nuclear route.

a mixture of astonishing arrogance and incompetence.