Why the silence?

[Pogue Mahone]

Might as well start my own ESL thread, seeing as they’re all the rage.

Second Captains podcast made a great point. After the initial brief announcement (which had more or less the same wording from every club) there wasn’t a peep out of any of the clubs until they announced they were pulling out. Every big corporation knows the importance of PR. I work for a big corporation. When we’re about to break big news we produce a raft of media briefing materials and internal and external Q&A documents. We brief media spokespeople (shout out to the political correctness thread) and plan a media campaign from minute one over the next several days.

If Klopp et al had been properly briefed and came out with just a few lines about why this was good for the club it could have made a huge difference to the fans. Or how about wheeling out a club legend or two? Likewise a few interviews with carefully selected journalists on Monday or Tuesday morning. And God knows all these clubs have at least one journalist in their pocket. They just needed to move the needle a little bit to divide the fans more than they were and it might have been enough for them to get this across the line. This would have been made even easier when you think about how unpopular the revised CL format is likely to be, with big clubs getting byes into the competition “because heritage”. Yet that obvious comparison never got a mention, by anyone.

The whole thing seems like a catastrophic communications failure. I can’t understand how they dropped the ball so badly. What was the point of 48 hours of stubborn silence? Any theories? Some of these guys have run a number of very successful businesses. How did they drop the ball so badly?

 

[Abizzz]

I'd like to say they're amateurs who've been lucky in life to get into the positions they have, but that's really only true of the Glazers, the Sheiks and Agnelli. Perhaps they don't understand meritocracy because it played no role in their own rise to the top of the food chain? The rest should really have known better, and have gone about things more professionally. Perhaps they all thought someone else would do it? They thought the league would do the PR bonfire, and Agnelli and Perez thought the clubs PR departments with all their contacts in every country would do it?

But yeah, at this point I wouldn't be surprised by anything anymore. It's still less baffling than paying more for players than their release clauses.

(I actually think the likes of Woodward thought our fans would celebrate certain qualification every year and defend it for them)

 

[GloryHunter07]

Its also amazing that they didnt look to sound out any politicians beforehand. Not to mention players. All very rushed and slapdash.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Might as well start my own ESL thread, seeing as they’re all the rage.

Second Captains podcast made a great point. After the initial brief announcement (which had more or less the same wording from every club) there wasn’t a peep out of any of the clubs until they announced they were pulling out. Every big corporation knows the importance of PR. I work for a big corporation. When we’re about to break big news we produce a raft of media briefing materials and internal and external Q&A documents. We brief media spokespeople (shout out to the political correctness thread) and plan a media campaign from minute one over the next several days.

If Klopp et al had been properly briefed and came out with just a few lines about why this was good for the club it could have made a huge difference to the fans. Or how about wheeling out a club legend or two? Likewise a few interviews with carefully selected journalists on Monday or Tuesday morning. And God knows all these clubs have at least one journalist in their pocket. They just needed to move the needle a little bit to divide the fans more than they were and it might have been enough for them to get this across the line. This would have been made even easier when you think about how unpopular the revised CL format is likely to be, with big clubs getting byes into the competition “because heritage”. Yet that obvious comparison never got a mention, by anyone.

The whole thing seems like a catastrophic communications failure. I can’t understand how they dropped the ball so badly. What was the point of 48 hours of stubborn silence? Any theories? Some of these guys have run a number of very successful businesses. How did they drop the ball so badly?

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[Raw]

They're completely out of touch. They really thought the majority of fans and players would accept this.

 

[Tarrou]

It was engineered by a group of people so privileged, so arrogant, so used to getting their own way, so divorced from reality and out of touch with football - they just couldn't see the wood for the trees

they obviously expected push-back but nothing like what they got

my theory of sorts is they hoped they'd push this through at the first attempt but expected it would result in a settlement that gave the big clubs more power than they have now

then go again in a few years when the idea had become somewhat normalised in the public eye and they had a little bit more power to do it

but when the push-back was 10x what they expected, they shat themselves, had no choice but to retreat and had no media plan in place for this course of events

but mostly I'n at a loss for how this was handled, it was just unbelievably bad

 

[largelyworried]

It was really odd. The basic rule of PR is that you have to get ahead of the story and shape it. Even if the scale of the opposition surprised them for some reason, they should have had a message in place ready to push. They could have argued that this was taking the game away from a corrupt UEFA and FIFA, how this was needed to get past covid, drop some numbers on how much more money would go to smaller clubs.* Instead they just dropped the news halfway through a match on a Sunday afternoon, then sat back and did nothing while the people that opposed it just painted them as money grabbing enemies of the game. Hell, the fact that UEFA, Sky and the Premier League managed to position themselves as the jilted good guys shows how abysmal the PR was on this.

* For the avoidance of doubt, I dont believe these things are true. Just saying that, from a PR perspective this is what they should have claimed.

 

[Pexbo]

I think it’s because there were twelve individual clubs trying to pull in the same direction while remaining a bit suspicious of each other and no central, neutral headquarters of sorts orchestrating the message. Every club had its own interests and unique circumstances, culture and fan base to contend with.

The nature of it also meant it was top secret until the 11th hour so players and managers were kept out of the loop until that point, by which time the resistance to it had snowballed and they felt empowered to disagree (privately) with the project knowing that they had just about every man, woman, child and politician behind them.

If proper planning had gone into it and the usual level of PR planning and message coaching of the players and manager, it would have been rumbled much earlier and nipped in the bud. Instead it was kept as a secret between a very elite group who didn’t have the first clue how the level of pushback they could expect.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Its also amazing that they didnt look sound out any politicians beforehand. Not to mention players. All very rushed and slapdash.

Indeed. Also, what about some sort of public opinion survey? They seemed to just assume everyone would be okay with it with no research whatsoever.

 

[Varun]

Combination of:
1. Being out of touch with fans
2. Arrogance that they know best
3. Contempt for others and a firm belief that they could push it through regardless

It's quite incredible that they planned this out for years and all it took was fans protest and threats from authorities for them to crumble. Mind boggling incompetence.

You have Perez even now, after everything has happened, saying that this is what football needs and justifying it saying there can be no NO big deals without Super league. Football doesn't need big deals to survive you massive cnut, there are only 5 clubs that do those deals anyway.

 

[DickDastardly]

Quite baffling i agree.

Maybe somebody jumped the gun? (Looking at you Florentino).

As they say, timing is everything. They fecked it up badly, so my take is that someone got a leak and the thing just started to roll out on its own.

UEFA and Čeferin went all in with the accusations, combined with Neville and the fans around the world started going all in as well.....it was all over at that moment.

No PR or media briefing at that point could save it.

I don't think they were ready to unleash it yet, hence the lack of PR and media briefing.

 

[Mike Smalling]

I think a combination of two things. First, they completely underestimated the level of pushback they would get, because they didn't speak to fans, players, managers or other stakeholders before. Basically, they were completely out of touch with reality. Second, they were without one clear leader calling the shots. In the end it was 12 individual clubs all coming under much more pressure than expected, and having to fend for themselves before thinking about the success of the ESL. The need for the ESL to succeed was clearly also wildly different for each of the clubs - City and Chelsea being driven more by a fear of missing out, while Real desperately need the money, for example.

In those 48 hours between announcement and withdrawal, I think it was pretty much impossible for them to communicate and coordinate a response between 12 parties with different interests, while under so much pressure.

 

[GloryHunter07]

Indeed. Also, what about some sort of public opinion survey? They seemed to just assume everyone would be okay with it with no research whatsoever.

Dont tell us what you want, we will tell you what you want!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It was really odd. The basic rule of PR is that you have to get ahead of the story and shape it. Even if the scale of the opposition surprised them for some reason, they should have had a message in place ready to push. They could have argued that this was taking the game away from a corrupt UEFA and FIFA, how this was needed to get past covid, drop some numbers on how much more money would go to smaller clubs.* Instead they just dropped the news halfway through a match on a Sunday afternoon, then sat back and did nothing while the people that opposed it just painted them as money grabbing enemies of the game. Hell, the fact that UEFA, Sky and the Premier League managed to position themselves as the jilted good guys shows how abysmal the PR was on this.

* For the avoidance of doubt, I dont believe these things are true. Just saying that, from a PR perspective this is what they should have claimed.

Exactly. This is going to be a case study of “how not to do it” in PR training for decades!

 

[GloryHunter07]

It was really odd. The basic rule of PR is that you have to get ahead of the story and shape it. Even if the scale of the opposition surprised them for some reason, they should have had a message in place ready to push. They could have argued that this was taking the game away from a corrupt UEFA and FIFA, how this was needed to get past covid, drop some numbers on how much more money would go to smaller clubs.* Instead they just dropped the news halfway through a match on a Sunday afternoon, then sat back and did nothing while the people that opposed it just painted them as money grabbing enemies of the game. Hell, the fact that UEFA, Sky and the Premier League managed to position themselves as the jilted good guys shows how abysmal the PR was on this.

* For the avoidance of doubt, I dont believe these things are true. Just saying that, from a PR perspective this is what they should have claimed.

All very good points.

 

[mu4c_20le]

They clearly underestimated the influence of Boris Johnson and the British Parliament.

 

[sullydnl]

Well they did present figures that suggested that the majority of fans (including in England) would be for a Super League. It may be they genuinely thought that was the case and their plan was based around the anticipation of a much less hostile reception from the public.

Perez did come out and give an interview as president of the ESL. And in his other interview yesterday I think he mentioned that they had prepared for each person to speak but the reaction to the idea killed them. So it may be that their plan (expecting there to be less public negativity) was for key figures from each club to come out one by one, giving similar interviews across several days. But then events overtook them.

Meanwhile they also had the internal politics and legal side of things to deal with which (having believed the public reaction wouldn't be an issue) was perhaps where they thought their focus needed to be over the immediate days. If the public were relatively okay with it then the biggest threat to the plan lay in that direction rather than in having to convince the fans of anything.

The sense you get is of people who weren't inclined to give much thought to fan reaction and who instead believed that if they got things right legally and politically then they could push it through regardless. And insofar as they did give a thought to the reactions of fans (who they are in many cases used to ignoring anyway), they believed it would be less hostile than it was in the UK at least. So they just hadn't prepared to fight that particular fight.

 

[OleBoiii]

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Pretty much this.

 

[romufc]

Combination of:
1. Being out of touch with fans
2. Arrogance that they know best
3. Contempt for others and a firm belief that they could push it through regardless

It's quite incredible that they planned this out for years and all it took was fans protest and threats from authorities for them to crumble. Mind boggling incompetence.

You have Perez even now, after everything has happened, saying that this is what football needs and justifying it saying there can be no NO big deals without Super league. Football doesn't need big deals to survive you massive cnut, there are only 5 clubs that do those deals anyway.

What got me is when in the Perez interview, I read a quote him saying these clubs deserve to be there winning trophies over the last 15 years.

I am a United fan and we haven't won a trophy in 3 years, No CL since 2008, no PL in since 12.

Spurs have won how many trophies in that period?

 

[padzilla]

Unless the whole thing was a massive distraction?

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[Camilo]

I think they underestimated the stupidity and stubbornness of regular people.

WHAT DO WE WANT??

SAME OLD SHIT!

WHEN DO WE WANT IT??

ALWAYS!

 

[KirkDuyt]

Perez apparantly said this was three years in the making. The way they presented this and bailed out after 2 days is just mind numbingly amateuristic. You'd think these wealthy people would have some sort of clue about these things or at least be able to pay others who are in possession of said clue.

It's hilarious.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Can only put it to them being so far out of touch with reality that they honestly thought people would just accept it. I mean the fact they didn't even communicate the plans with the managers, coaches, players or employees of the clubs shows they could not even be bothered to think about the fans feelings originally. I'm amazed that for once the furious backlash made them re-consider their stance but my word, they have so royally f***** things up I can only put it to them being trapped in their own wee bubble and just decided they were doing it.

 

[VP89]

For English clubs I think the reason is because there was a huge disconnect between the club owners and fans and a serious misjudgement in how it would be received. So I think in the PL they were silent in the hope that the initial reaction was something that would blow over in 24 hours, before soon grasped fan reaction was only going to get worse.

I think Levy/Abramovic probably knew that this would be a bad idea but didn't want to be left out. Glazers/Fenway on the other hand were the biggest drivers & thought the model can be commercialized swiftly because it works so well in the US, hence the disconnect.

For Italian & Spanish clubs I think it all came down to the money. They literally make the decisions on what will make them the most ££ and don't give two fecks about fan reaction or consequence, which is why they didn't pull out until they really really had to.

 

[Lj82]

Well they did present figures that suggested that the majority of fans (including in England) would be for a Super League. It may be they genuinely thought that was the case and their plan was based around the anticipation of a much less hostile reception from the public.

Perez did come out and give an interview as president of the ESL. And in his other interview yesterday I think he mentioned that they had prepared for each person to speak but the reaction to the idea killed them. So it may be that their plan (expecting there to be less public negativity) was for key figures from each club to come out one by one, giving similar interviews across several days. But then events overtook them.

Meanwhile they also had the internal politics and legal side of things to deal with which (having believed the public reaction wouldn't be an issue) was perhaps where they thought their focus needed to be over the immediate days. If the public were relatively okay with it then the biggest threat to the plan lay in that direction rather than in having to convince the fans of anything.

The sense you get is of people who weren't inclined to give much thought to fan reaction and who instead believed that if they got things right legally and politically then they could push it through regardless. And insofar as they did give a thought to the reactions of fans (who they are in many cases used to ignoring anyway), they believed it would be less hostile than it was in the UK at least. So they just hadn't prepared to fight that particular fight.

I read that and was thinking to myself how did they even plan that? They didn't have a joint conference where they can drive the narrative. The whole roll out was a shambles and they were reactive all the way.

While the ESL was a longer term project, it seems that the announcement was rushed. A real strategic mistake I think. It seems like they had calculated that they needed commitment from about 15 of the top clubs in Europe to make this happened, but they only had 12, of which 2 of them appeared to be contacted quite late and hence less committed to the project. The project fell apart once the two clubs started having cold feet.

 

[Tincanalley]

I think it’s because there were twelve individual clubs trying to pull in the same direction while remaining a bit suspicious of each other and no central, neutral headquarters of sorts orchestrating the message. Every club had its own interests and unique circumstances, culture and fan base to contend with.

The nature of it also meant it was top secret until the 11th hour so players and managers were kept out of the loop until that point, by which time the resistance to it had snowballed and they felt empowered to disagree (privately) with the project knowing that they had just about every man, woman, child and politician behind them.

If proper planning had gone into it and the usual level of PR planning and message coaching of the players and manager, it would have been rumbled much earlier and nipped in the bud. Instead it was kept as a secret between a very elite group who didn’t have the first clue how the level of pushback they could expect.

And how did that bode for the future running of the competition?

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Unless the whole thing was a massive distraction?

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I hate stuff like this.

Chin stroking nihilistic smugness.

Nobody thinks UEFA are angels or that football was perfect the way it was. Clearly there are still major issues in the game. The Super League concept dying is undeniably a great thing though.

 

[FireballXL5]

Unless the whole thing was a massive distraction?

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I get the feeling this was a smoke and mirrors stunt too. It was just too amateurish for words.

 

[Tincanalley]

Unless the whole thing was a massive distraction?

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No chance. That's a total red herring. Have you any idea of the financial losses involved? The damage to the likes of JP Morgan?

 

[adexkola]

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All that needs to be said.

 

[sullydnl]

Unless the whole thing was a massive distraction?

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I get the feeling this was a smoke and mirrors stunt too. It was just too amateurish for words.

It wasn't. Clubs and owners don't do massive reputational damage to themselves as a negotiating tactic. Or throw away plans we know they've been working on for years, which have constantly provided them with leverage over UEFA when not being used. Or any of the multiple other ways this has inconvenienced them and those who aided them, like JP Morgan (who were downgraded by a sustainability rating agency in the wake of this fiasco).

 

[Bobcat]

Think its halfway arrogance, halfway incompetence.

As you said, the fact that they didnt do more groundwork and even the most basic PR means they must have imagined a completely different scenario in their heads. Did they think fans, pundits, clubs and organizations would just lap it up with no protest? Did they think everyone would just bend the knee because they were the big boys and could do as they wanted?

I also think they have completely misunderstood how the world views them. The owners, despite having control, are not the clubs and everyone views them as a separate entity. This proposal was not made by Man Utd, Real Madrid, Liverpool and so on, it was made by their greedy cnut owners and people are perfectly able to make that distinction.

I mean, the fecking Glazers should know as the slogan "Love United, hate Glazers" was pretty widespread for a while so even though they own the club, people sure as feck dont think they are the club

Honestly, it still blows my mind and will do for some time how this half baked, moronic scheme even saw the light of day. You would think that being as rich as these cnuts are the should posses at least above average cognitive ability, but this putrid trainwreck of an idea was so monumentally stupid and poorly executed it would make you think the people behind it would struggle to wipe their own arses without looking it up first.

Simply baffling

 

[Varun]

Unless the whole thing was a massive distraction?

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Yeah, the pocket change UEFA threw their way made them leave the league which would have secured massive revenues for the next 20yrs. Makes sense.

It's funny how people always look for a convoluted explanation for the simplest of things.

 

[FireballXL5]

It wasn't. Clubs and owners don't do massive reputational damage to themselves as a negotiating tactic. Or throw away plans we know they've been working on for years, which have constantly provided them with leverage over UEFA when not being used. Or any of the multiple other ways this has inconvenienced them and those who aided them, like JP Morgan (who were downgraded by a sustainability rating agency in the wake of this fiasco).

I think they'll be just fine.

 

[Mickeza]

If the 12 announced they were in discussions about it - took it to the PL and allowed some way for other clubs to join - consulted fans and Govt. - spun it as a CL replacement because UEFA are corrupt etc it genuinely may have got through. They’ve dropped the ball massively.

 

[sullydnl]

I think they'll be just fine.

I'm sure they will. But not as fine as they would have been if they hadn't put themselves in this mess.

 

[JPRouve]

No chance. That's a total red herring. Have you any idea of the financial losses involved? The damage to the likes of JP Morgan?

Yeah, I could be wrong but JP Morgan wouldn't have been involved if the consequence of that distraction was to be downgraded?

The way Aulas communicated about it, my suscpicion is that there is/was a power struggle between the 12 and other big clubs. Which could explain why the likes of Ajax, PSG, Dortmund, Bayern and Lyon who are heavily involved in football politics have quickly "supported" the UEFA, yesterday these clubs took control of football associations and are seemingly pushing for a club world cup.

 

[Tincanalley]

Yeah, I could be wrong but JP Morgan wouldn't have been involved if the consequence of that distraction was to be downgraded?

The way Aulas communicated about it, my suscpicion is that there is/was a power struggle between the 12 and other big clubs. Which could explain why the likes of Ajax, PSG, Dortmund, Bayern and Lyon who are heavily involved in football politics have quickly "supported" the UEFA, yesterday these clubs took control of football associations and are seemingly pushing for a club world cup.

Id imagine it was like a kindergarten.

 

[padzilla]

Yeah, the pocket change UEFA threw their way made them leave the league which would have secured massive revenues for the next 20yrs. Makes sense.

It's funny how people always look for a convoluted explanation for the simplest of things.

So we are basically getting a 36 team CL with 225 games and VIP passes for 2 ESL type clubs instead. It's basically the same thing, or getting closer to it. The next part will be for UEFA and private equity to combine.

 

[Tincanalley]

I'm sure they will. But not as fine as they would have been if they hadn't put themselves in this mess.

Well how will they be greeted the next time any of these lads call up JP Morgan or any financing house? How will they get on in future negotiations? Shareholders meeting? Hmm