Why will anything less than a PL or CL title be deemed as a failure if we supposedly still don't have one of the best teams in Europe?

[RedPed]

A lot of people are now saying that Ole has no excuse for ending the season trophyless but by the same token our squad is still not as good as Liverpool's, Chelsea's, City's etc. You can't have it both ways. Sure we should be competing on all fronts now but to put an expectation on United to win is a bit contradictory.

Four into two doesn't go, so at least two of United, City, Liverpool or Chelsea could potentially end up with none of the big ones. Would they be deemed a failure also?

People will counter by saying that the others have won stuff recently, which is fair enough but for this season it's completely irrelevant.

I'm just saying if United are expected to win a major title this season and they are deemed as a failure if they don't, surely the others should be held to the same standard. For example, I would argue that if anything Chelsea should be expected to clean up this season now that they have signed Lukaku. So if they don't, will Tuchel get the same level of scrutiny as no doubt Solskjaer would? I very much doubt it.

For the record, I do think United will win silverware this season but I'm not really fussed which. I'd be happy with a title (or two), more consistency, winning streaks and a few hammerings along the way. Going deep into competitions has not really been a problem for United, we just need to see the job through now.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

I would say our squad is on par with any of the top PL sides right now except for midfield. With the investment made into the team, we have no excuse to not win or at least be inches close to pl/cl titles.

Of course there is more context to a whole seasons story. The bar has been raised for what is an acceptable season at United, and that can only be a good thing.

 

[cyberman]

We are as good as any side in Europe if these new signings click. If we aren’t then it falls on the manager.

 

[duffer]

I don't think failure to win a trophy would necessarily be a failure for you. If you finish second with 95 points then you have to hold you hands up and say "fair play, Chelsea were just too good".

Failure to improve on last season would be a failure.

 

[Rash Decision]

Do you not want to hold your club to the highest possible standards, especially at this stage in the rebuild?

 

[Idxomer]

We have a better squad than Liverpool and don't think that Chelsea's is any better either.

 

[Crustanoid]

Not having a functioning midfield is a fundamental reason why we won’t win CL or PL

 

[Kag]

We are as good as any side in Europe if these new signings click. If we aren’t then it falls on the manager.

Two out of the three teams we have played so far this season have had better/more appropriate central midfield pairings than us.

We aren’t as good as any side in Europe until we have an actual midfield. One bloke who can actually pass the ball from A to B and stand in the right places would do, to be honest.

 

[horsechoker]

I don't think failure to win a trophy would necessarily be a failure for you. If you finish second with 95 points then you have to hold you hands up and say "fair play, Chelsea were just too good".

Failure to improve on last season would be a failure.

Yeah at some point you have to say that the other teams were too good.

I think though Ole at least needs some domestic silverware, to get rid of this "nearly man" tag that hangs over his head.

 

[Kag]

We should challenge and put up a fight. We should play some good football throughout. We should concede fewer goals than last season. However, we have no divine right to expect the title. If anything, I’d fancy this team to go on a Champions League run moreso than see the title through to the end.

Ole could really do with a trophy, though. Even with our dogshit midfield this is achievable.

 

[RedPed]

Two out of the three teams we have played so far this season have had better/more appropriate central midfield pairings than us.

We aren’t as good as any side in Europe until we have an actual midfield. One bloke who can actually pass the ball from A to B and stand in the right places would do, to be honest.

Exactly, which is why I raised the question initially. Why are so many people saying there is no excuse for Solskjaer now, if we still have a few issues in the team to address?

 

[#07]

Not having a functioning midfield is a fundamental reason why we won’t win CL or PL

We do not have a functioning midfield, however we can still win the league without it. I'm not going to get into Champions League cos that's different.

However, not having a functioning midfield is a reason why I would not be surprised if we don't win anything.

 

[RedPed]

I don't think failure to win a trophy would necessarily be a failure for you. If you finish second with 95 points then you have to hold you hands up and say "fair play, Chelsea were just too good".

Failure to improve on last season would be a failure.

That is not the narrative currently being touted in the media and amongst a lot of rival fans though.

 

[BusbyMalone]

At the end of the day, when you bring in a player like Ronaldo who's up there as one of the best players to ever play the sport, you have no excuses. We all know that we need a midfield signing, but I don't think many people are going to listen to you use that as an excuse for not winning anything now that we have Ronaldo. I know that's a simple way of looking at things, but that's just the truth. It's part of the game. When you make a signing of that calibre, the pressure increases on you as a club (and as a manager). Ole knows this.

 

[Cloud7]

How do we not have one of the best teams in European football right now? How much better is this team realistically going to get? A proper DM would be welcome but we still have an outstanding team regardless.

The excuses never stop I see.

 

[Grande]

I would say our squad is on par with any PL side right now except for midfield. With the investment made into the team, we have no excuse to not win or at least be inches close to pl/cl titles.

Of course there is more context to a whole seasons story. The bar has been raised for what is an acceptable season at United, and that can only be a good thing.

So we are as of now below Watford and Newcastle, and you expect us to win the PL?

 

[duffer]

That is not the narrative currently being touted in the media and amongst a lot of rival fans though.

That's because of the massive media conspiracy against you. I thought that was understood by now?

As for rival fans, if you're expecting something reasonable, you've never met a football fan.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

So we are as of now below Watford and Newcastle, and you expect us to win the PL?

Oops

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Our squad with Sancho, Varane and Ronaldo added rivals absolutely anyone. We’re stronger than most in in a few areas and weaker in possibly one area. Every other side has at least one weaker area, feck City don’t even have a striker and Liverpool’s striker options are “meh” at best if we’re honest.

Of course we should expect massive improvement, trophies, who knows but I expect us in a genuine title race until late March and in the late stages of the cups.

 

[cyberman]

Two out of the three teams we have played so far this season have had better/more appropriate central midfield pairings than us.

We aren’t as good as any side in Europe until we have an actual midfield. One bloke who can actually pass the ball from A to B and stand in the right places would do, to be honest.

We started off slow last year and our midfield kicked on. France won a World Cup with 1 of our starting 2 midfielders.
We didn’t lose ground on City last year because of our midfield, we worked around it and the glaring problems we had in dropping points to lower sides or the 0-0 draws v top sides for the first half of the season are addressed by the new signings.
We can work around a midfield because we have done before IMO. We can’t fall into the trap of thinking we need a perfect team to be up there with the best. It’s not as if European football is bursting at the seams with quality at the minute.

 

[RedDevilzFox]

This squad is as good as any in PL. Don't delude yourselves.

 

[NK86]

I don't think failure to win a trophy would necessarily be a failure for you. If you finish second with 95 points then you have to hold you hands up and say "fair play, Chelsea were just too good".

Failure to improve on last season would be a failure.

well said

 

[Grande]

At the end of the day, when you bring in a player like Ronaldo who's up there as one of the best players to ever play the sport, you have no excuses. We all know that we need a midfield signing, but I don't think many people are going to listen to you use that as an excuse for not winning anything now that we have Ronaldo. I know that's a simple way of looking at things, but that's just the truth. It's part of the game. When you make a signing of that calibre, the pressure increases on you as a club (and as a manager). Ole knows this.

It’s not a simple way, it’s a confused one. If someone expects Ronaldo to come as a 36 year old for 20m and play as a 26 year old for 200m, he is confused, and not a little. I heard someone say that getting Ronaldo, we should be expected to beat City and Chelsea, AND he thought it was a mistake to get Ronaldo as he was an over-the-hill primadonna who would weaken the team. In effect, he expected a team to become better by becing worse. That is not simple, that is stupid.

 

[Nero]

It wouldn't be a failure to not win. It would be a failure to not compete.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Money spent, if the squad isnt that good, the money has been spent poorly or we have failed to improve a significant of the players already there.

You can't just spend spend spend and barely improve

 

[meamth]

I genuinely believe in player's growth.

What Fred and Mctominay achieved last season isn't a fluke. People keep saying we have a dog shit midfield, but I want to believe they will improve further this season.

Maybe we're weaker because lack of depth, McT injured, Fred not on form yet, but our firepower is enough to win something this season.

 

[Grande]

Oops

I know, it was a cheap shot, couldn’t resist.

 

[Rojofiam]

I'm Ole in, always have been, think he's 10x better than the majority thinks, but the pressure is on. We need a DM and a back-up RB, but no squad is perfect and we have a top 5 squad in the world without a doubt. Of course, circumstances matter, but anything below 85 points in the league should be a huge failure. Not winning our CL group would also be a failure. After that, everything depends on the draw, but I'd like us to go very deep in that competition too. The pressure is on this season. As soon as McTominay is back, I think we're gonna be stomping on other teams

 

[TheReligion]

A lot of people are now saying that Ole has no excuse for ending the season trophyless but by the same token our squad is still not as good as Liverpool's, Chelsea's, City's etc. You can't have it both ways. Sure we should be competing on all fronts now but to put an expectation on United to win is a bit contradictory.

Four into two doesn't go, so at least two of United, City, Liverpool or Chelsea could potentially end up with none of the big ones. Would they be deemed a failure also?

People will counter by saying that the others have won stuff recently, which is fair enough but for this season it's completely irrelevant.

I'm just saying if United are expected to win a major title this season and they are deemed as a failure if they don't, surely the others should be held to the same standard. For example, I would argue that if anything Chelsea should be expected to clean up this season now that they have signed Lukaku. So if they don't, will Tuchel get the same level of scrutiny as no doubt Solskjaer would? I very much doubt it.

For the record, I do think United will win silverware this season but I'm not really fussed which. I'd be happy with a title (or two), more consistency, winning streaks and a few hammerings along the way. Going deep into competitions has not really been a problem for United, we just need to see the job through now.

Wrong forum

 

[BusbyMalone]

It’s not a simple way, it’s a confused one. If someone expects Ronaldo to come as a 36 year old for 20m and play as a 26 year old for 200m, he is confused, and not a little. I heard someone say that getting Ronaldo, we should be expected to beat City and Chelsea, AND he thought it was a mistake to get Ronaldo as he was an over-the-hill primadonna who would weaken the team. In effect, he expected a team to become better by becing worse. That is not simple, that is stupid.

I'm talking about the assessment from the media, rival fans - whatever. There are no excuses. I don't think we'll win the League because our midfield isn't good enough. But using that as an excuse when we already have an incredible amount of attacking talent, a strong defense helped by the signing of one of the best defenders in the world, hopefully a rejuvenated keeper, and THEN signing one of the best players to ever play the game, is not going to fly. I don't think many are expecting him to come in and play like a 26-year-old, so that's disingenuous to say, but he comes with a massive reputation (obviously), and with that reputation comes scrutiny. You can bemoan it all you want, but that's the game.

Again, I don't think we'll personally win it.

 

[redrobed]

Media and rival fans hate us for our success and the fact it’s organic so they’re always going to try and pile the pressure on.

The fact is while the greedy Glazers are in charge we are never going to be able to financially compete in the market with the likes of Chelsea and City. Yet we’re always up there anyway as plucky underdogs. Neutrals should all be hoping we win everything as the only club at the top trying to do things the right way.

 

[Infra-red]

We have to do better than last season. That means more points, a genuine title challenge and getting out of the CL group stage (1/4 should really be the minimum expectation). We also need to see a real improvement in how we play when in possession.

If we don't quite get over the line in the Premier League or Champions League, that wouldn't necessarily be a failure, if the other criteria are met.

 

[sullydnl]

I would never expect any team to win a major trophy in a given season as if it's some god given right. There's too much scope for chance to derail you, even if you're favourites within the competition.

However, it is entirely fair to expect a team to compete for major trophies (with some leeway even then in cases of catastrophic misfortune like severe injury crises). That's what I expect from United this year. And beyond that improvements in other measures of performance, which are also fair to expect.

Also the OP asks if Tuchel would get the same level of scrutiny as Ole would if he fails to win the PL, to which the answer is of course not, because he won the CL just a few months ago. Ditto Pep and Klopp, who have already proven themselves at their club and elsewhere. Ole will be under more scrutiny than they will, as he has far, far, far more to prove than they do.

 

[Laurencio]

I expect improvement, more goals and better runs in major competitions. It's silly to expect to win titles - we didn't even do that with Fergie in charge - but we should expect to challenge for them, stay in the title race throughout and potentially win a few in the coming seasons. If we fail to even challenge properly then that is clearly a massive failure at this point. 20 points behind isn't going to cut it.

We can and should challenge for the premier league title - Ronaldo is a huge boost - but I don't think we are favorites by any stretch of the imagination. Right now we are missing solidity in midfield, and we need a lot more from Paul Pogba. If we fix that, then I don't see many teams being better than us to be honest.

We are more than good enough to stay in the fight however, and we fail to do that it will be a colossal failure.

 

[The Boy]

I don't think failure to win a trophy would necessarily be a failure for you. If you finish second with 95 points then you have to hold you hands up and say "fair play, Brighton were just too good".

Failure to improve on last season would be a failure.

Fixed that for you!

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Only one team can win the PL and CL every season. CL is between Bayern, PSG, Real, Juve, Barca, Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool etc, only one team from that lot can win it. PL you have to be better than Chelsea, Liverpool and City. It's not entirely a zero sum game, everyone isn't a failure except the team that wins the competition.

Nothing wrong with being close to winning them and someone being slightly better, for example a CL run to the semi-finals or final would do the club the world of good, far better than losing in the group stages last year. If you keep putting yourself in the position, you should eventually win one too.

 

[GMoore23]

I expect improvement, more goals and better runs in major competitions. It's silly to expect to win titles - we didn't even do that with Fergie in charge - but we should expect to challenge for them, stay in the title race throughout and potentially win a few in the coming seasons. If we fail to even challenge properly then that is clearly a massive failure at this point. 20 points behind isn't going to cut it.

We can and should challenge for the premier league title - Ronaldo is a huge boost - but I don't think we are favorites by any stretch of the imagination. Right now we are missing solidity in midfield, and we need a lot more from Paul Pogba. If we fix that, then I don't see many teams being better than us to be honest.

We are more than good enough to stay in the fight however, and we fail to do that it will be a colossal failure.

Oh yes we did.

Great times.

 

[Tom Cato]

I want to be in competition for the title until the last 3-4 gameweeks, that is good enough. Between GW35-38 we either win the league or place well.

 

[Mike Smalling]

I would deem it a failure if we don't seriously challenge for the league and reach the quarter finals in the CL. We don't have the midfield to expect to win either.

 

[GMoore23]

De Gea/Henderson
Varane/Bailly - Maguire/Lindelof - Bissaka/Dalot Shaw/Telles
McTominay/VDB - Fred/Matic
Bruno/Pogba
Greenwood/Sancho - Rashford/Martial
CR7/Cavani

An unbelievable squad, the best we've had since 2009.
I've said it before the season began but now the signing of Ronaldo puts even more pressure on.
Imo, Ole must at a minimum :
Win a trophy
Challenge for the League, if we lose it must be by no more than 5/6 points
Champions league - Semi Finalists

If we happen to sign a cm before the window shuts then I expect the league title.
A decent cm and we have the best squad in the league easily.