Wilfried Zaha: “Subjected to vile racist abuse on Instagram”

[Zambara]

Can you imagine comparing those posts with directly sending racist messages to someone?

Well yeah, I can actually.

In real life, saying racist (or sexist) things to people directly will get you in trouble, sure. But so would saying such things to a public gallery.

You cannot use the law to arrest the odd random person every now and then for saying something discriminatory on the internet. Much less when the scapegoat is a 12-year old.

There has to be a clear consistency. Otherwise you get people being punished on a whim. And from that you get games springing up around who can most effectively lobby to get individuals punished. Something you're already seeing happen in society over the last few years.

And it's pertinent, as those posts I quoted illustrate, that some of the people who egg this on with most relish - the concept of punishment for real or imagined speech infractions - are perfectly capable of and willing to express their own nasty sides, ironically sometimes in the same breath as urging somebody else gets taken down.

Edit-

Can you really not see the difference between posting on a niche public forum, as horrible as some of the comments are, and deciding to directly message someone with racial abuse (not insults by the way)?

What does Zaha's money have to do with anything? If he was a poor black man, would that have somehow made things better?

Yes, I can see the difference. I can also see the similarity. I'm addressing the wider context, which is relevant to why the police acted in the heavy handed way they did.

As for this case particularly, I don't necessarily disagree with the police being involved, but ultimately, there's a job to be done by (if they're worth anything) the parents, and school and local community.

No the money doesn't make much of a difference, but it's not exactly a situation with a straightforward power dynamic between a bully and a cringing victim. It's child-to-adult, operating on entirely different social levels.

 

[africanspur]

Of course they should not have arrested him.

The country is in a moral panic.

Arresting a 12 year old because he insulted a millionaire adult is not justice. It is not leadership, or healing. It is not building community understanding. No matter the insult.



Haha, is that so?

Then how do feel about being a member of a community drowning in bigotry?

Behold:

The Left-wing All-Stars, of the always charming Current Events forum:














You can practically just search for the moderate-left politician Nancy Pelosi for this material. She annoys them more than any right-winger.

These are the exact same people who peddle the whole fundamentalist "words have consequences"/"the UK is sexist, racist and evil"/"no-platform them" type mantra and rhetoric.

Yes, they weren't sent directly to the women they are addressing via social media. But nonetheless, if the principle that you - and the police apparently - holds true, that of no tolerance for bigoted words: shouldn't they all be expecting a knock at the front door?

Can you really not see the difference between posting on a niche public forum, as horrible as some of the comments are, and deciding to directly message someone with racial abuse (not insults by the way)?

What does Zaha's money have to do with anything? If he was a poor black man, would that have somehow made things worse?

 

[Judas]

It'll always disgust me the stuff on here people will make excuses for.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Im in the camp of yes it was wrong but lets be careful of how far we go. If that kids name comes out then both him and his families lives will turn to sht. I dont think thats deserved for the crime. I hope it stays hush hush and if the kid is actually racist and not just rebelling then he is given some help. In fact he needs help either way but you know what I mean. Im not excusing the behavior. He should be punished in some capacity just lets not turn to vigilantes.

 

[Adisa]

Well yeah, I can actually.

In real life, saying racist (or sexist) things to people directly will get you in trouble, sure. But so would saying such things to a public gallery.

You cannot use the law to arrest the odd random person every now and then for saying something discriminatory on the internet. Much less when the scapegoat is a 12-year old.

There has to be a clear consistency. Otherwise you get people being punished on a whim. And from that you get games springing up around who can most effectively lobby to get individuals punished. Something you're already seeing happen in society over the last few years.

And it's pertinent, as those posts I quoted illustrate, that some of the people who egg this on with most relish - the concept of punishment for real or imagined speech infractions - are perfectly capable of and willing to express their own nasty sides, ironically sometimes in the same breath as urging somebody else gets taken down.

Edit-



Yes, I can see the difference. I can also see the similarity. I'm addressing the wider context, which is probably relevant to why the police acted in the heavy handed way they did.

As for this case particularly - I don't necessarily disagree with the police getting involved, but ultimately there's a job to be done best handled by (if they're worth anything) the parents, and school and local community.

No the money doesn't make much of a difference, but it's not exactly a straightforward power dynamic between a bully and a cringing victim, is it.

If you feel there is equivalence between the two, I see no point arguing with you.

 

[Adisa]

Im in the camp of yes it was wrong but lets be careful of how far we go. If that kids name comes out then both him and his families lives will turn to sht. I dont think thats deserved for the crime. I hope it stays hush hush and if the kid is actually racist and not just rebelling then he is given some help. In fact he needs help either way but you know what I mean. Im not excusing the behavior. He should be punished in some capacity just lets not turn to vigilantes.

His name won't come out.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Did someone actually suggest that because Zaha’s rich that somehow he should be able to cope with racist abuse?
Ffs! We haven’t come a long way at all have we?

 

[steve zizou]

Of course He's only being racist because of his anonymity because racism is illegal. Just like everytime I've had the n-word shouted at me outside it was by someone driving by. If he's saying it on social media, he damn well shouting it through car windows!

No need for prison though. I'd give him a suspended sentence and criminal record which can only be wiped by completing a mandatory racism awareness course.

 

[londonredmaniac]

12 years old. Man that's genuinely some depressing shit right there.

 

[londonredmaniac]

Just like everytime I've had the n-word shouted at me outside it was by someone driving by. If he's saying it on social media, he damn well shouting it through car windows

Just sorry you need to go through that at all...

 

[Adisa]

Of course He's only being racist because of his anonymity because racism is illegal. Just like everytime I've had the n-word shouted at me outside it was by someone driving by. If he's saying it on social media, he damn well shouting it through car windows!

No need for prison though. I'd give him a suspended sentence and criminal record which can only be wiped by completing a mandatory racism awareness course.

How many adults go to prison for racist abuse? Prison isn't even in the conversation.
Imo, it is right he is being humiliated with an arrest. It should teach him a lesson. I hope he's able to be educated further. And if as I suspect, he comes from a home where this kind of thing is the norm, I am sorry to say, he can't be helped.

 

[sammsky1]

Haha, is that so?

Then how do feel about being a member of a community drowning in bigotry?

Behold:

The Left-wing All-Stars, of the always charming Current Events forum

You can practically just search for the moderate-left politician Nancy Pelosi for this material. She annoys them more than any right-winger.

These are the exact same people who peddle the whole fundamentalist "words have consequences"/"the UK is sexist, racist and evil"/"no-platform them" type mantra and rhetoric.

Yes, they weren't sent directly to the women they are addressing via social media. But nonetheless, if the principle that you - and the police apparently - holds true, that of no tolerance for bigoted words: shouldn't they all be expecting a knock at the front door?

I didn’t read any racist or otherwise illegal statements in any of those posts. Just a lot of silly name calling.

I’ve been on this forum many years and in my experience illegal language is not tolerated here whatsoever and anyone who indulges is banned and the post is removed ASAP.

Ditto on the major social media platforms, if you are subjected to illegal hate speech, and if you report to the police, they are obliged to investigate.

Sorry to have to tell you, but your very lengthy post proved nothing.

 

[sammsky1]

How many adults go to prison for racist abuse? Prison isn't even in the conversation.
Imo, it is right he is being humiliated with an arrest. It should teach him a lesson. I hope he's able to be educated further. And if as I suspect, he comes from a home where this kind of thing is the norm, I am sorry to say, he can't be helped.

And I hope they message is also sent loud and clear to all others in society who want to indulge in such behaviour: it is illegal and will likely have unpleasant repercussions.