It all depends how many of Leverkusens players can resist the lure of the big clubs next season.
Will Harry Kane ever win a trophy?
- Thread starter Samid
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A big part of the reason that Alonso is staying is that the Leverkusen board have agreed that none of their key players will be sold this summer and that they will add to the squad significantly.
Can you quote me on where I said this? I've said throughout that claiming Kane made them a worse team was laughable. Which it is. For the record I think they've been better this season that last, yes, but where they are now is largely down to a very strong start. They've faltered a lot of late and I wouldn't be surprised to see a significant downturn now that continues into next season.
The second bolded bit doesn't make any sense either. I've not claimed the supreme importance of Kane - those are your words - I've simply argued against your assertion that Harry Kane was one of the things that made them a worse team last season. Because he wasn't. The key change is the manager and the way they play. As @VP89 said - a point you didn't address - ange's spurs looked better with Kane than they do now.
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You keep throwing words like "stupid", "absurd", "nonsense", "laughable" around, yet the reality is that Kane left and Spurs got better (Meanwhile the team he has joined have gotten worse). You can put whatever parameters or other factors around it that you want but the idea that Tottenham playing better football and being much less reliant on one player for their attacking play has nothing to do with them selling Kane, is a little bit strange. You are suggesting it is a pure coincidence.
Maybe Tottenham will get into a relegation battle next season or something (I doubt it), but you can't use speculative arguments like saying YOU think they will get worse next season, and then start throwing words like absurd or stupid around at other people. Especially when they already were worse last season so would in effect have to get even worse than that before you started making enough sense to start patronising anyone.
I'm not discounting that the new manager has made a big difference, but I'm not convinced they would be able to play how they have this season with Kane, because its not how any team with Kane in it has ever been able to set up. Having Kane spank every single free kick into the wall or orbit instead of letting someone take them who might have a chance of scoring or creating a goal, is a direct example of how Tottenham were putting him before the benefit of the team, which is why I brought it up. I very seriously doubt any manager would ever think this was a good idea, so how do you know this sort of silliness wouldn't have carried on this season if Kane was there?
And there you go again. You can't discount the possibility that Harry Kane was one of the things that made them a worse team last season, because they have played better football without him, they have scored a comparable amount of goals (it will be more barring a poor end to the season). Their results have been better. There is no barometer by which they haven't improved since he has left, so there's nothing to support your argument that isn't speculative. It doesn't mean you're wrong but it does mean you can't possibly KNOW that you're right.
I haven't addressed @VP89 's point about Kane under Ange, because here's the thing. Ange was appointed as manager on the 6th June...Kane was sold to Bayern on the 30th of June. During this time Tottenham played a total of 0 games. So if you do want me to address it for some reason, I'm going to suggest that its probably "nonsense". With this you have unwittingly decided to share in VP's habit of being a baffling weirdo.
Big ask but he could still win the CL this season. I think he’ll win a trophy next year once Bayern have a new manager they’ll probably win the league straight back.
It is an interesting thing about football that having a sensational striker doesn't necessarily make you a better team, or make the team score more goals. Kane would have more to his game than a lot of strikers who in the past have had this critique against them, far better all rounder than RVN for example, but even with that he becomes a singular focus of the attacking play.
To be fair he is unlucky that Leverkusen have been so exceptional.
To be fair he is unlucky that Leverkusen have been so exceptional.
If Leverkusen don't get picked apart this summer, and I think they won't, Bayern aren't guaranteed to defend their title. Even if they improve on this season's performances, Leverkusen could be hard to overcome if they maintain a high level going into next season.
I know banter is banter and everybody can enjoy this cosmic irony to the fullest, but there can be no doubt that if there is one guy in the current squad who is not at fault for Bayern fecking up the league (and probably all competitions), then it's Harry Kane.
Disagree. A few well taken goals aside, he has not been that good. Disbalanced the squad. Too slow.
True or it could be a 1 season job that doesn’t happen again. Similar to Leicester. I’m obvs not comparing because Leicester’s was a miracle. Leverkusen have a very good squad. But I think the opposite, teams are gonna try and rip there squad apart
Of all opinions in the whole wide world, this is definitely one.
They really should have checked his luggage for traces of Spurs when he got off the plane because he definitely took some over there with him.
Both Alonso and Wirtz have committed their short-term future to the club, though, if I'm not mistaken? I don't think they'll stay around to be in and out of top 4 and waste 1 or 2 years of their careers for no reason. I can see them selling 1 or 2 key players, but no more than that.
Harsh on Spurs, they are doing better without him.
Banters aside though, he’s not at fault for them not winning the league, but he’s also isn’t the type to elevate them out of their slumps. Whenever Bayern were bad and got stomped this season, you can count on Kane disappearing as well, not sure that’s good enough for this current Bayern that is lacking in leadership.
True. But Tuchel made an absolute bollox of things at Bayern.
He really did, but Leverkusen are unbeaten as it stands and are taking teams apart. It would have had to have been an unreal Bayern season to stop them.
It’s a dangerous job for anyone going there right now, especially if Leverkusen invest and try to seize on this opportunity.
I owe an apology as I got you confused with that guy who wrote the big thread claiming Fernandes escapes criticism due to having an ugly face. I don't know why as I just checked and your usernames aren't even remotely similar.
It's OK mate. I do talk a lot of shite too. As long as there's some good quality here and there I'm good.
I would argue he made them better in attack. There defence is letting them down and you can't ask of him to bail them out every time. He does more often than Choupo-Moting did last season. Which shouldn't be surprising, but it's a fact.
Are you feeling ok? Ange himself scoffed at the notion that Kane made them a worse team. Something that you seem convinced of, despite Kane being one of the best 9s in the world. Kane also actually scored four in Ange's first match - https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...arry-kane-premier-league-london-b2437103.html . How embarrassing...baffling, even. Ya baffling weirdo
You're the only one mental (or stubborn) enough to try to claim that one of the best CFs in the world is one of the reasons for spurs being worse last season. Even the current manager thinks it's a ludicrous position to hold. Because, you know, it is...
I'm sorry but you are trying to extrapolate that Kane would have been successful under the new manager based on one pre-season friendly against Shakhtar Donetsk?Are you feeling ok? Ange himself scoffed at the notion that Kane made them a worse team. Something that you seem convinced of, despite Kane being one of the best 9s in the world. Kane also actually scored four in Ange's first match - https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...arry-kane-premier-league-london-b2437103.html . How embarrassing...baffling, even. Ya baffling weirdo
You're the only one mental (or stubborn) enough to try to claim that one of the best CFs in the world is one of the reasons for spurs being worse last season. Even the current manager thinks it's a ludicrous position to hold. Because, you know, it is...
No, I'm trying to extrapolate that one of the best number 9s in the world would have been successful under a manager who himself agrees that Kane would have been a massive asset to them. Kane is one of the best 9s in the world. I'm also saying that the one game he did play under him he scored four times in. The other poster said that he had never played a game under him whereas that's not only untrue, but hides the fact that the only time he has played a game under him, he scored four times. In reality, the fact that Kane scored four in the only game he played under Ange is neither here nor there - the bigger, more obvious fact that the other poster seems intent on arguing, for some reason, is that a player of Kane's abilities would have absolutely contributed to this Spurs team positively. It's not like he's a total individual that's not a team player either. It's just a ludicrous point to argue, yet the argument seems to be that because Spurs are doing better this season, their best player (by a long chalk) and one of the best in the world was a major contributing factor to their underperformance last season (not the change of manager, system etc).
Fixed this to show how ridiculous it is for you.
But surely you can recognise that your argument is purely hypothetical in nature beyond a single pre-season friendly?
It's more or less undeniable that Spurs have been better without him this year and Bayern have been worse with him. Obviously there are a million different variables going into that, but I don't think it's ludicrous to suggest that Kane just isn't quite the type of player who can single-handedly drag a team to titles the way that, say, Eden Hazard did.
But nobody IS arguing that. The argument was that Harry Kane was a significant part of the reason that spurs were a worse side last year. I think that's ludicrous and that's what I'm arguing against.
He is the human jinx.
Oh well apologies; that's fair enough! Apologies if I've strawmanned there. I'll just go back to reading this thread and enjoying the schadenfreude...
No worries! I think we can all enjoy Harry's ongoing trophyless trudge towards retirement. Watch England win the world cup the moment he packs it in!
This is pure speculation… Result-wise they’re not really better. They’re making 1,87 ppg with Ange… They reached 2ppg under Pochettino and in Conte’s first season. One of Pochettin’s season they got 2,2 ppg…
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Assuming Bayern even get past Arsenal, which isn't a foregone conclusion by any stretch, I find it hard to believe they'll be able to handle either Madrid or City.
The best chance Harold Kane has of getting a trophy this year is the Euros. Yeah I said it.
The best chance Harold Kane has of getting a trophy this year is the Euros. Yeah I said it.
Dare I say it?
I’ll be supporting Bayern all the way now. Kane deserves a big trophy. Madrid have won it enough, PSG can feck right off, and Dortmund - well it’d be an underdog story and up until about 3/4 years ago I’d have been cheering them on, but our dealings with them, the whole “you love to see it” nonsense…..just turned me off them. Rightly or wrongly.
Harry Kane: Finish the story
I'm on the Kane train. It's Bayern or bust for me this season.
Would be great if he wins the CL with Bayern. You'd expect them to win Bundesliga surely at least once over next 2-3 years so that'll be done as well.
I don't have anything against Kane but I hope he wins feck all in his career. He is a fantastic player and probably a wonderful person, but it would be funny if he retired with zero trophies (except for the Audi Cup). Finishing 3rd 2015-16... his club sacking the cup-final specialist Mourinho before a league-cup final... moving abroad to a club who've won the title consecutively for 10+years and all of a sudden Leverkusen has a freak season demolishing everyone in their path. The football gods are master comedians. The icing on the cake would be if Spurs picked up an FA Cup or something whilst he's away and he continues to live in the shadow of Leverkusen in Germany, and hopefully he loses to Dortmund in the final if he gets there. Fingers crossed.
The football gods are master comedians. The icing on the cake would be if Spurs picked up an FA Cup or something whilst he's away and he continues to live in the shadow of Leverkusen in Germany, and hopefully he loses to Dortmund in the final if he gets there. Fingers crossed.Playa hater of the year 2024.I don't have anything against Kane but I hope he wins feck all in his career. He is a fantastic player and probably a wonderful person, but it would be funny if he retired with zero trophies (except for the Audi Cup). Finishing 3rd 2015-16... his club sacking the cup-final specialist Mourinho before a league-cup final... moving abroad to a club who've won the title consecutively for 10+years and all of a sudden Leverkusen has a freak season demolishing everyone in their path.
Are you sure?I don't have anything against Kane but I hope he wins feck all in his career. He is a fantastic player and probably a wonderful person, but it would be funny if he retired with zero trophies (except for the Audi Cup). Finishing 3rd 2015-16... his club sacking the cup-final specialist Mourinho before a league-cup final... moving abroad to a club who've won the title consecutively for 10+years and all of a sudden Leverkusen has a freak season demolishing everyone in their path.