Before they get anywhere near 10 league titles a 70 year old Benitez will be in charge with a 40 year old Joe Hart in goal having an Indian summer, an abandoned mini stadium infested with pigeons and a dodgy Belarusian buying the team from a UAE fire sale. Pep will be gone when another team wins the league, like a pay day millionaire walking out of a strip club when the stripper he thought loved him takes off the dental floss for another punter.
Will our rivalry with City one day be greater than Liverpool?
- Thread starter vidic blood & sand
- Start date
I think the first thing City needs, for me to start feeling extra negatively about them compared to other rivals, is some chararcters. Some of their players, like de Breuyne, Kompany, Silva and Aguero, just seem like humble, quiet proffesionals, and some others are so cartoonishly stupid-looking, like Ederson, Walker, Sterling, Otamendi or "I believe in ghosts"-Delph, that I just can't seem to bother about them at all. If they had some personality and arrogance in the club I think it would breed more rivalry.
This isn't rhetorical, or meant as patronizing - but when were you born?
I started supporting United as a young lad around 86, and Liverpool were the dominant force in English footy back then.
Liverpool have won 18 League Titles - City have won 4, that's eighteen against four.
They've got a huge, organic, Global fanbase, whereas City can barely fill that dinky little stadium every other week, and are essentially just a PR tool for the crooks that've bought and hollowed them out.
Liverpool are a sleeping (or at least dozing) giant, they are an historical club who've made their own history and wealth. If a decent owner comes in for them (just, say, 15% better than their current ones), they will properly wake up.
In short, the reason Liverpool will always, always be our biggest rival is because they are real. They are our real rival.
It gets said a lot, maybe so much so that people have started to forget that it's true, but city are lottery winners - they've not crafted out a history, or a wealth of fans (which is where the magic in footy comes from).
To give a musical comparison, United and Liverpool are The Stones and The Beatles (whichever way 'round you want), and city are an X-Factor winner...
They may have a 'technically great' voice, they may have paid the world's finest pop writers to write them the most catchy little jingles, and right now, every layman might be tapping their toe along to it. But ultimately, it means utterly nothing.
No one cares that Westlife have more chart success than The Beatles, it almost isn't true, because it means nothing. It's just hollow.
I guarantee you that's how this short period in city's history will be remembered in time.
Last edited:
The shit press are certainly trying to make it that way.
It will always be Liverpool.
It will always be Liverpool.
Growing up in Iceland at the same time as the PL the vast majority of people (at least 80% of followers) were, and mostly still are United or Liverpool fans. The split 20 years ago was probably close to 50/50 but success has probably dipped the needle more towards United. There has always been something unlikeable about Liverpool. It's probably the attitude more than anything. The boom-bust cycle matches Icelandic Liverpool fans as well as it does the Liverpudlians themselves. Even the most rational Liverpool fans I know can talk all the sense in the world about their team or United or whatever but as soon as emotion comes into play for them they just become the Liverpool fan. Born after Istanbul, born during SAF's heyday or lived through the 70's and/or 80's and it doesn't matter.
Why doesn't City affect me the same way as Liverpool you ask? I don't know any City fans. It's as simple as that. The only thing annoying about City know is their blood money. I know they don't want to think about it but that's what they have to live with (most of them probably don't care). I've got nothing against Pep, I don't find their players annoying. They've got their thug (Otamendi), their cnut (Agüero) and their diver (Sterling) but nothing spectacularly bad. Pep is a fine dude, Pellegrini was a likeable bloke as well. Mancini wasn't and his team in general wasn't but nothing major. It bothered me more to see them beat us with a Shaun Goater winner knowing we were the better team than now when they play ok (specifically our game) and we simply played badly to a team in a much better form.
Honestly Chelsea winning annoys me more. Maybe because they've had their money for longer, got instant success and have done better overall with it. City might get there however purely because of the media.
Why doesn't City affect me the same way as Liverpool you ask? I don't know any City fans. It's as simple as that. The only thing annoying about City know is their blood money. I know they don't want to think about it but that's what they have to live with (most of them probably don't care). I've got nothing against Pep, I don't find their players annoying. They've got their thug (Otamendi), their cnut (Agüero) and their diver (Sterling) but nothing spectacularly bad. Pep is a fine dude, Pellegrini was a likeable bloke as well. Mancini wasn't and his team in general wasn't but nothing major. It bothered me more to see them beat us with a Shaun Goater winner knowing we were the better team than now when they play ok (specifically our game) and we simply played badly to a team in a much better form.
Honestly Chelsea winning annoys me more. Maybe because they've had their money for longer, got instant success and have done better overall with it. City might get there however purely because of the media.
Obviously if you are a Mancunian red it has the potential to be a lot closer than before. As an Irish United fan I can safely say that it will never compete with Liverpool rivalry for me.
Difference between City and Clippers is that City have won silverware.
I agree with everything in this post except the last part. It just leaves a bitter taste in the mouth when fans of traditionally elite clubs like ourselves look down on the new rich. I see no difference to it than aristocrats sneering at anyone who dares compete with them. The argument that their or Chelsea or PSG's money is not earned negates the fact that no one can achieve success without some form of outside investment. This is especially the case nowadays when the traditional bourgeois of European football including ourselves are working every year to make the gap with the rest bigger and more insurmountable. AC Milan are so bad they can't make the top 4 in the Italian league, they lobbied at UEFA to get a free pass to the CL because of historical relevance. That's how entitled and eager the traditional elite are to make sure they stay where they are.
As for the notion that City won't be remembered as anything more than lottery winners. That's also just not how history works. Real Madrid were as much and some might argue, are still getting a lot of help from their government. Tax cuts and loan deals were coming aplenty with a certain Franco making sure they get the best players and deals. Nobody now is talking about their first five CL triumphs as dirty wins.
I understand what you're saying, and I respect your view (you're a great poster), but I disagree with you on this.
There's a line of where a club is before the money comes in and where they are after it. With city that line is simply too far gone to take them seriously.
There's a line of where that money is coming from, and how it was acquired (by the owner), again, with city that line is just way too laughable and far gone to take them seriously as a real football club anymore.
Chelsea, for example, had success before Roman, they didn't become something entirely different and lose their entire history.
Perhaps I should add to my above post that I simply don't believe that city will amass 15-20 league titles like ourselves or Liverpool, and maybe if they did, by then people would see them as an established giant. I just don't see that happening though.
If city actually want to be taken seriously as genuinely bigger rivals to us than Liverpool they have to actually rival what we've each done! That's 15-20 PLs and 3-5 CLs, and a big stadium that's full every other week. Once they've done that, ok, lets talk...
Until then, they're not in the same ballpark.
Cheers, I appreciate it mate. I see where you're coming from also. It is a matter of degree and you feel the degree to which City took it goes too far. That's not something I can argue against really. My point was more general and I think for me it goes beyond football. I despise the entitlement of the privileged just because they were born into it versus those who weren't lucky enough to be as fortunate. I think it's about the fans in the case of football. I know a lot of fans of other clubs whose lives are fans are basically hoping to be promoted or avoid relegation. If one day their club get what City did, I would feel like a right knob if I just went "Nah you don't get to enjoy the beautiful football and success" or that what they take from it is somehow inferior to what I did from all those years as a United supporter. So maybe at the level of board members and owner, I can agree with you but from a fans point of view, I wouldn't begrudge or belittle anyone's experience just because they don't support a club who made it in the right period.
Maybe City Rivalry will be with Liverpool and out local rivalry of importance will be against Everton
There was never any animosity to Liverpool before they started winning everything in the late 70s/80s. The real enemy was always city before then.
As a United fan far away from Manchester, I treat City kinda like how I treat Chelsea. They're a good team, no matter how they got there, and they're strongly competing for the title, so they're auto-rivals because only one of us can attain a common objective.
It's a very functional rivalry, there's very little heart in it. Perhaps in the city it may be a different story, but globally I don't see it being nearly as big as the Liverpool rivalry. And let's not kid ourselves, both teams right now are just a group of professional footballers who're doing they're jobs well, no one's really 'playing for the shirt' and there is no real 'spirit'. They just feel like two global corporate behemoths.
Football was different when the Liverpool rivalry was at its dirtiest. It was the irrational nature of it, the stupid decisions from fans and players on and off the pitch, that feeling off just wanting to grab the likes of Gerrard by the collar and telling him to go f*ck off back to whatever sh*thole he came from. I feel none of that towards City or any of its players.
It's a very functional rivalry, there's very little heart in it. Perhaps in the city it may be a different story, but globally I don't see it being nearly as big as the Liverpool rivalry. And let's not kid ourselves, both teams right now are just a group of professional footballers who're doing they're jobs well, no one's really 'playing for the shirt' and there is no real 'spirit'. They just feel like two global corporate behemoths.
Football was different when the Liverpool rivalry was at its dirtiest. It was the irrational nature of it, the stupid decisions from fans and players on and off the pitch, that feeling off just wanting to grab the likes of Gerrard by the collar and telling him to go f*ck off back to whatever sh*thole he came from. I feel none of that towards City or any of its players.
Looking for the scouse lovers in my thread 
There's no chance I'll dislike any team more than Liverpool... Just look at the twats spewing out from there... Souness, Redknapp, McManaman, Keegan, Fowler.. I can make this list very long.
Only if City dominate the way Liverpool once did and the way Utd did under SAF at times. Even then I'm not sure, Liverpool are just so easy to dislike, despite my "Scouse Lover" tag.
The reason why I started this thread is because I was trying to put myself in the shoes of young Utd fans. I hate Liverpool because I had to grow up watching them win everything, but young fans today have grown up with city and chelsea competing with us more than the scouse scum, so if *they* hate city and chelsea more than liverpool, I have some sympathy with them.
Yeah, I have noticed the younger fans I've met do dislike City more than Liverpool. My father is a United fan and his father before him aswell, my father hates Liverpool and Leeds, while I don't care at all about Leeds. Guess it changes with generations.
I’m 34 so when I started supporting United Liverpool dominance was coming to an end. It’s always been the biggest game of the season for me though. The derbys with city weren’t as big, but it’s definitely getting bigger than Liverpool for me now. Having to live in the same city and see Facebook posts about how there the best team in the PL ever has definitely given the city game a bit of extra spice. Imagine getting beat by them or Liverpool in a champions league final I just couldn’t stand it.
The rivalry with Liverpool has always been more of a fan culture/hooligan type rivalry. There's been very few seasons where we have directly competed for the title. The rivalry was at its fiercest (from a fan perspective) during the 70s and 80s (A 20 year period where we only won 3 Fa Cups and the second division title). There's genuine vile/hatred still in the air when we play them There's probably only Celtic/Rangers in the UK where that fan hatred is stronger.
As for City, it's always gonna have that extra sting (because it's a local derby). It's always been a game I've never enjoyed watching
Even when they were really shit from the early 00s to 08, it was always a horrible game to watch.
As for City, it's always gonna have that extra sting (because it's a local derby). It's always been a game I've never enjoyed watching
Even when they were really shit from the early 00s to 08, it was always a horrible game to watch.
Been a Utd fan for 30+ years, and I always have and always will take a win over City in preference to a win over Liverpool.
has to be Liverpool for me
but then again I'm not from Manchester so maybe that makes a difference
but then again I'm not from Manchester so maybe that makes a difference
Can we not hate both equally? I hate both with a fervour, but City are more in my mind right now because of Pep and how the media sees them all as the saviours of football.
You might just be on to something.
Yes. When Grobelaar cleaved an already injured McQueen out of it, who finished the game up front, I had my target of hate.
Everything that club does is full of hypocrisy & bland platitudes to themselves. If former players continue to suck up to the Kop, then they're just the greatest ex-players anyone ever had.
City, like any club who challenged United, as disliked for their run of success, but Liverpool, I hate. I hate their stupid fans, their stupid accents, their stupid history, their stupid red kit, Makes the FKW look like right tools.
If they were relegated to non-league football, I'd still be rooting for the opposition to crush them even further.
Not for me. Liverpool winning the league would mean something. City winning just means football went a bit shit.
The order is
Liverpool > Leeds > man City > Chelsea > Arsenal > whom ever we play on that match day.
Liverpool > Leeds > man City > Chelsea > Arsenal > whom ever we play on that match day.
I feel absolutely nothing for Man City; they are a nothing club that was propelled to the top by corrupt money.
Before the oil money, I used to go to City games regularly because a lot of people I know went to both City and United games. It was like going on a day out to a small club.
I see it the same as if Bolton were bought out by oil billionaires and started winning. I don't care.
Before the oil money, I used to go to City games regularly because a lot of people I know went to both City and United games. It was like going on a day out to a small club.
I see it the same as if Bolton were bought out by oil billionaires and started winning. I don't care.
City can only hope their rivalry with United becomes as big as United vs Liverpool. The biggest thing about City is United.
The rivalry got more intense with Scousepool the closer we got to them in terms of silverware.
That's how far citeh are off from being an equal rival to them.
That's how far citeh are off from being an equal rival to them.
My disdain for City is purely based off the fact I live and work in Stockport. With so many oil hooked mercenaries here it has made me reconsider how I feel about the rivalry. I absolutely abhor Liverpool and every point they get but having to argue each and every aspect about us vs city at work is driving me to madness.
Last edited by a moderator:
I’m not from Manchester and grew up watching football in the 90’s i.e. Liverpool were never a threat. Saying that, I do experience the bragging rights thing as most people I know who don’t support a London club are either United or Liverpool fans - but still considered Arsenal (10-15 years ago) and more recently Chelsea to be bigger rivals. But then the fact I’m surrounded by their supporters could also play a part in that tbf?
For me the City game bears far more relevance now, for obvious reasons. I’d rank it at
City > Chelsea > Liverpool
Arsenal have become a bit of an irrelevance.
For me the City game bears far more relevance now, for obvious reasons. I’d rank it at
City > Chelsea > Liverpool
Arsenal have become a bit of an irrelevance.
Did Liverpool take United seriously as a rival in the 80s, when United had not achieved anywhere near what Liverpool had done?
Or did the Liverpool-United rivalry only really take hold around 10 years ago when United could match Liverpool's domestic trophy haul (they are still to match Liverpool's European success)?
If what you say (City have to rival United's trophy count to be taken seriously), then your own reasoning is being ignorant of the rivalry that has occurred between United and Liverpool for a period of time that lasts a lot longer than United being comparable to Liverpool's success.
And so by your very own rationale, United, as a rival to Liverpool, have only just been in the same ballpark for the last 10 years. Which everyone knows, in terms of the rivalry between the teams, is simply not the case.