Will the English ever bloody forgive Mr Pigeon? No

Adam-Utd

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Quite poetic that we saw both sides to Maradona in that match against England.

2 Genius moments, one very good and one very bad.

I don't blame him for doing what he did, I doubt he expected to get away with it either.

A beautiful footballer and it's a shame we don't remember him for just that alone.
 

Josh 76

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The English media and English players at the time have gone so over the top with the handball goal.
So he used his hand, where the feck was the linesman and referee ?
He probably did it as a joke, and couldn't believe his luck when he got away with it. I've seen A lot of players do that kind of stuff, some get away with it and some don't. This was so obvious that the officials should have been sacked on the spot.
The thing is , you never hear much about Micheal Owen's cheating dive against Argentina in the 2002 world cup.
 
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Lay

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I hate this perspective so much.
Agreed but it is unfortunately the norm. I used to dive for penalties in Sunday league games all the time so I can't be too critical of players cheating.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Pretty sure the type of drugs he took didn't help his performance in any way :lol:
Yeah, so an individual being a druggie can lose respect for being a druggie alone, regardless of it being a peformance impacting one or not. I mean didn't he actually get banned for it?
 

2mufc0

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Yeah, so an individual being a druggie can lose respect for being a druggie alone, regardless of it being a peformance impacting one or not. I mean didn't he actually get banned for it?
Personally, if it's not performance enhancing sports authorities should mind their own business. They don't ban players for consuming massive amounts of alcohol which is also a drug.
 

2mufc0

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He was booted from the 94 World Cup for PED use. You'd have to be pretty naive to believe that he was a clean athlete at any point.
Yes he did but I'm pretty sure it would have got picked up when he got caught with the cocaine too.
 

norm87cro

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Nick Hornby stated in his "Fever pitch" that the english never really forgave Maradona for his second goal not the handball goal. And on some level he is correct because Maradona was a class above everybody else and the english had players like Robson, Lineker and Barnes back then. It's eaiser to accuse somebody of cheating than admitting to yourself that somebody is on another planet to you football wise. The Beckham red was more of a scummy move from Simeone than anything Maradona did.
 

InfiniteBoredom

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Nick Hornby stated in his "Fever pitch" that the english never really forgave Maradona for his second goal not the handball goal. And on some level he is correct because Maradona was a class above everybody else and the english had players like Robson, Lineker and Barnes back then. It's eaiser to accuse somebody of cheating than admitting to yourself that somebody is on another planet to you football wise. The Beckham red was more of a scummy move from Simeone than anything Maradona did.
Well it’s not only accusing though, he verifiably cheated.
 

John_Jensen

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I've seen Old Trafford give Ole a standing ovation for intentionally booting Rob Lee up in the air when he was in on goal, but score a goal with your hand and you're a scumbag. The English are weird.
 

SaintMuppet

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I forgave him decades ago. He may be generally a complete item of a human being but what a player. Without doubt the most fouled player in history who usually just got back up without whining and beat you again, heart of a lion, ability to carry an average team to victory etc

All this before you factor in his sublime skills with a football both offensive and defensive!!! And the cherry on the cake he could cheat without getting caught!

Whilst nowhere near my personal favorite player of all time he is the GOAT
 

Eric's Seagull

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My father who watched it at the time said Maradona's eyes were closed as he was expecting to get puncjed by Shilton in the face but when the goal got given he took it. If it was accidental Maradona should have admitted it at the time and the goal should have been disallowed.
 

SteveJ

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pretty sure @SteveJ isn’t English, he’s from Toxteth
:lol:

Focusmate said:
Also, assuming the OP is Irish I have to laugh. Digging the English for holding grudges from ages ( 34 yrs) ago.....no irony or hypocrisy?
As we say in Ireland: 'Get to f*ck.'
 

thepolice123

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The English media and English players at the time have gone so over the top with the handball goal.
So he used his hand, where the feck was the linesman and referee ?
He probably did it as a joke, and couldn't believe his luck when he got away with it. I've seen A lot of players do that kind of stuff, some get away with it and some don't. This was so obvious that the officials should have been sacked on the spot.
The thing is , you never hear much about Micheal Owen's cheating dive against Argentina in the 2002 world cup.
Check out Becks' pathetic dive before Owen's eventual dive. They were so deaperate for Becks' fairytale redemption arc.

 

LVGSdive

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Disagree. It's about not cheating, surely. You would respect Lance Armstrong greatly had he not gotten caught?
I respect him anyway since he was beating other riders who were cheating. Its not like he was the only rider on Ped's.

Furthermore, even on Ped's the tour de France is incredibly difficult to complete.
 

Pink Moon

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The English outrage against Maradona has always been weird to me. Surely the real ire should be directed at the officials for missing such a blatantly obvious handball?

If Scholes' handball v Zenit (?) wasn't spotted would he be this villain figure? Messi scored one early in his career and got away with it too yet nobody ever mentions it.

I love how angry and bitter Peter Shilton is to this day. He's a horrible old man so can't say I have much sympathy for him.
 

poleglass red

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Nick Hornby stated in his "Fever pitch" that the english never really forgave Maradona for his second goal not the handball goal. And on some level he is correct because Maradona was a class above everybody else and the english had players like Robson, Lineker and Barnes back then. It's eaiser to accuse somebody of cheating than admitting to yourself that somebody is on another planet to you football wise. The Beckham red was more of a scummy move from Simeone than anything Maradona did.
No Robson in that game and Barnes only came on in 74th min as a sub
 

nokillingmoths

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Nick Hornby stated in his "Fever pitch" that the english never really forgave Maradona for his second goal not the handball goal. And on some level he is correct because Maradona was a class above everybody else and the english had players like Robson, Lineker and Barnes back then. It's eaiser to accuse somebody of cheating than admitting to yourself that somebody is on another planet to you football wise. The Beckham red was more of a scummy move from Simeone than anything Maradona did.
Accuse someone of cheating? You make it sound like there was debate about whether he cheated. He punched the ball in ffs. Was 2 at the time so not massively arsed but the man is obviously scum.
 

Gio

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I find the bitterness over it hilarious. Not because it denied that generation of English players a shot at the World Cup, but the selective morality over the game. Fenwick's elbow on Maradona was brutal and a straight red in any era and it's helpful the film showed it to put the game into context. And never mind the long series of heavy challenges he used to receive, the type that would be obvious reds in today's game. It's hard to feel outraged when the English team were just as guilty of cheating in their own culturally acceptable way.
 

RedCurry

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I've seen Old Trafford give Ole a standing ovation for intentionally booting Rob Lee up in the air when he was in on goal, but score a goal with your hand and you're a scumbag. The English are weird.
Didn’t Ole get a red card for it? There was no referee error there if I remember this correctly. Not nearly the same thing.
 

giorno

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He was booted from the 94 World Cup for PED use. You'd have to be pretty naive to believe that he was a clean athlete at any point.
Not really, the PED use at USA 94 was down to a cream containing a banned substance(players still get caught for that sometimes, when they either miss the banned substance or forget to report it) which the argentine medics missed because nobody understood english :lol:
 

Irwin99

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I don't ever hear much criticism of the referee/linesman for not actually not seeing it.

Anyone Scholsey's hand of god goal was better :D


 
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I thought everybody in England loved maradona now because he’s cool? :confused:
Except Peter Shilton who gets ripped apart on social media every time he says something
When was Maradona ever cool to the English?

He’s an utter cheat, both on and off the field. He was clearly riddled with drugs throughout his career, some recreational some performance enhancing.

He was however also a majestic footballer, and one of the best that’s ever played the game

The two goals he scored against England are a perfect summary of his career. The genius and the cheat.

I struggle with the concept of forgiveness in any case. However, to be forgiven do you not have to accept responsibility and show remorse?

Maradona has been unable to do that throughout his entire life.

Edit - I have no hostility towards him and that goal. It’s 34 years ago.
 

amolbhatia50k

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I respect him anyway since he was beating other riders who were cheating. Its not like he was the only rider on Ped's.

Furthermore, even on Ped's the tour de France is incredibly difficult to complete.
Alright. But he was still someone flouting the rules. An in Maradona's case his opponents weren't punching the ball into the back of the net.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Personally, if it's not performance enhancing sports authorities should mind their own business. They don't ban players for consuming massive amounts of alcohol which is also a drug.
They do ban players for racism. So I'm not sure they need to mind their business for everything other than peformance enhancing drugs. The footballing body will always want to not want the game associated with certain acts/take a stance. And isn't ephedrine a peformance/energy enhancing drug?
 

Classical Mechanic

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Not really, the PED use at USA 94 was down to a cream containing a banned substance(players still get caught for that sometimes, when they either miss the banned substance or forget to report it) which the argentine medics missed because nobody understood english :lol:
Come on fella, that's bullshit PED excuse #142678 from the big book of bullshit PED excuses.
 

LVGSdive

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Alright. But he was still someone flouting the rules. An in Maradona's case his opponents weren't punching the ball into the back of the net.
You
You're right he was cheating and so was 99% of the other riders as was proven to be the case.

There's many forms of cheating in football, not just scoring by punching the ball into the net.
 

RedCurry

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Both intentionally cheating to influence the result of a game.
Not really. Ole got the deserved punishment while Maradona did not. No one is ever hated for tactical fouls in the game. It is so silly to compare the two incidents.
 

MikeeMike

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Totally can forgive.. We won a world cup on dodgy goal... Shilton wimped out of it and pathetic he didnt get to the ball. I am England die hard but cannot complain when other teams use gamesmanship to win. SF vs Croatia in Russia. Their equalizer- defender should have gone down instantly holding face as foot was high. would have been disallowed. Cheating and winning have close boundaries. If was last minute and Maradona was through on goal and defender took him down we would love it.
 

duffer

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I've seen Old Trafford give Ole a standing ovation for intentionally booting Rob Lee up in the air when he was in on goal, but score a goal with your hand and you're a scumbag. The English are weird.

Nothing to do with "the English", ask Irish fans about Henry or Ghanians about Suarez.