Winston Churchill

[villain]

Why on earth would they get you to do that?!? To what end?

To promote the idea of how hard working they were, great workers - built for such tasks etc. Therefore there's no guilt or admission of wrongdoing.
Nothing was explained, even the concept of the auction was spun in a positive way - no mention of how they got there in the first place either.

My 11 year old brain was obviously too ignorant to understand or even question any of this at the time, but I doubt my teacher knew much about it either, even if I did have questions & concerns.

 

[oates]

Are you sure?

I am not the only one getting a bit defensive to posts like these, from the second and fourth most active posters in this thread:

Are you sure @11101 because I'm certain that I've pointed out that these are the debating skills of primary school children and not to be frustrated at or with.

I'm sure they didn't intend to call me a racist because if I'd shown any racist tendencies I'd have been banned by now from the forum because they are not welcome here usually and quite rightly if found expressing such opinions.

Nothing to see here, move along sir.

 

[SteveJ]

To promote the idea of how hard working they were, great workers - built for such tasks etc. Therefore there's no guilt or admission of wrongdoing.
Nothing was explained, even the concept of the auction was spun in a positive way - no mention of how they got there in the first place either.

I am actually stunned by that. Lost for words.

 

[MrPooni]

Are you sure?

I am not the only one getting a bit defensive to posts like these, from the second and fourth most active posters in this thread:

Defensive? I'm still on lockdown so I haven't had this much fun in days. No lubrication and clean up required either, unless you count the Gammon tears I'm currently bathing in.

 

[Mogget]

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[TwoSheds]

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Says it all doesn't it? I think the Daily Mail said the fella doing the cleaning is even called Winston as well didn't they? Don't think they called for a pay rise for him though funnily enough...

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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Quality tweet.

Also. Absolute state of those Tory goons and their power stances.

 

[Infra-red]

Quality tweet.

Also. Absolute state of those Tory goons and their power stances.

You can absolutely guarantee that they'd shit a brick and run away if a couple of determined looking people with spray cans showed up. There's probably an army of police, just outside of that shot.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You can absolutely guarantee that they'd shit a brick and run away if a couple of determined looking people with spray cans showed up. There's probably an army of police, just outside of that shot.

Never mind spray cans, they’d probably run for the hills if someone walked near them carrying a milk shake.

 

[sammsky1]

Are you sure?

I am not the only one getting a bit defensive to posts like these, from the second and fourth most active posters in this thread:

Sincere apologies to you that I pricked your ego by pointing out that Tommy Robinson is a racist, just like Winston Churchill, and that those pricked by such a statement should consider why they have those injured feelings.

Please start a counselling costs gofundme page for those egos pricked by this statement and I’ll gladly donate for psychologically injuring such verily abused souls.

 

[horsechoker]

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First picture looks like an album cover

 

[SteveJ]

First picture looks like an album cover

 

[horsechoker]

Is that Take That?

 

[RedTiger]

British tax payers were paying the families of slave owners money for lost 'property' (read: slaves) up to 2015.

I'm sorry, what??

 

[SteveJ]

Is that Take That?

It's The Who, chiefo!

 

[Smores]

That's more than a little disingenious. The almost sole reason why there is so much resentment for Japan across Asia is because of their refusal to admit what they did during WW2. Some people have independently apologised but the government still won't admit responsibility and that includes the Prime Minister.

It's not like the UK refuses to admit we did anything wrong either. The government has publicly apologised. I'm not sure what people actually expect them to do.

Not true, like at all.

 

[horsechoker]

It's The Who, chiefo!

Who?

 

[fishfingers15]

Who?

The Who man, the Who

 

[villain]

I'm sorry, what??

Yes, but I actually worded it incorrectly the tax payers weren't paying the families of slave owners, but rather paying the government - it was the government who paid the slave owners directly.
When Slavery was abolished in the UK, (only done because it was no longer as profitable) the families of slave owners were given compensation depending on how many slaves they owned. The UK Government then ensured that this debt was paid for by tax-payers for over 180 years, ending in 2015.
Some were paid £3m, others £17m, the super wealthy over £30m or more.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ven-huge-payouts-after-abolition-8508358.html

Nothing was paid to the slaves of course, just their 'freedom'.

I would love to delve into the family descendants who received such fortunes & how that money has continued to circulate in their family to this day.

 

[Honest John]

Churchill is the icon of Britain's greatest achievement to many. Attacking Churchill represents an attack on the country itself and thus an attack on those who have British greatness as core values.

The left (and i count myself in this group) often lose the argument because they don't get British exceptionalism therefore they miss that people take it personally when you seemingly attack the country. Bringing Churchill into the argument is a massive own goal. It's just not worth it.

I agree with this. The protesters, having built up some decent momentum, will shoot themselves in the foot if they continue on that path.

 

[2cents]

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[Buchan]

King Leopold II in Belgium is another one. I’ll be amazed if celebratory relics of him in Belgian cities last much longer considering his disgraceful actions in Africa at the turn of the 20th century.

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That didn’t take long...

 

[horsechoker]

I hope Bobby Charlton isn't racist

 

[2mufc0]

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Yep he deserves it too.

 

[sammsky1]

I was wrong.

In fact it will be tens of millions of Britain’s whom will be re-educated on how some of their previously iconic citizens will be perceived in the future.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...eview-of-all-london-statues-for-slavery-links

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[sammsky1]

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Its a calculated false equivalence. Ghandi may have held unethical and racist opinions but those never led to millions of innocents getting brutally murdered.

Regardless, Ghandi doesn't need Britain to vouch for his greatness, so pull him down if needs must.

 

[sammsky1]

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[rotherham_red]

Its a calculated false equivalence. Ghandi may have held opinions but those never led to innocents getting brutally murdered.

Regardless, Ghandi doesn't need Britain to vouch for his greatness, so pull him down if needs must.

He supported Apartheid in South Africa, and was horribly racist to black Africans.

And that's before we get on to his peadophilic tendencies and hypocrisy when it came to western medicine.

 

[rotherham_red]

Personally, while I'm loving all these statues being torn down, I do hope the structures that ensure this inequality can be torn down also.

Otherwise, it's just a totem.

 

[sammsky1]

He supported Apartheid in South Africa, and was horribly racist to black Africans.

And that's before we get on to his peadophilic tendencies and hypocrisy when it came to western medicine.

Ill repeat myself. As I said, a false equivalence to Churchill and his ilk. But take him if you must.

 

[sammsky1]

Personally, while I'm loving all these statues being torn down, I do hope the structures that ensure this inequality can be torn down also.

Otherwise, it's just a totem.

Farage is getting hammered on LBC as we speak.
An entire generation at Oxford University whom will become future leaders passionately engaged right now.

Millions of Brits are going through a re education. #Wokeistan

 

[Raoul]

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Quality wokeness. I suppose the mere proximity to Churchill was enough to do the trick.

 

[rotherham_red]

Ill repeat myself. As I said, a false equivalence to Churchill and his ilk. But take him if you must.

Don't think it was ever a flase equivalence, moreso a statement of an opinion...

Was Gandhi a racist? In my eyes, and the eyes of the person who sprayed the word, yes. Hence why he sprayed the word.

Where does Churchill factor in to that? Churchill wasn't even mentioned in the tweet, or in @2cents post, so no, it's not a false equivalence.

EDIT - re-read the tweet. Never mind.

 

[sammsky1]

Don't think it was ever a flase equivalence, moreso a statement of an opinion...

Was Gandhi a racist? In my eyes, and the eyes of the person who sprayed the word, yes. Hence why he sprayed the word.

Where does Churchill factor in to that? Churchill wasn't even mentioned in the tweet, or in @2cents post, so no, it's not a false equivalence.

i think its a false equivalence. We can disagree.

 

[Raoul]

He supported Apartheid in South Africa, and was horribly racist to black Africans.

And that's before we get on to his peadophilic tendencies and hypocrisy when it came to western medicine.

Hadn't heard any of this before. Pretty grim stuff.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I was wrong.

In fact it will be tens of millions of Britain’s whom will be re-educated on how some of their previously iconic citizens will be perceived in the future.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...eview-of-all-london-statues-for-slavery-links

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To be fair the vast majority of people don't know who the people the statues represent are. I'd never heard of Colston before the weekend.

This seems ridiculous though

Manchester city council is under pressure to remove a statue of Sir Robert Peel in Piccadilly Gardens. Over a thousand people have signed a petition demanding the removal of the memorial to the two-time British Prime Minister, born in Bury in Greater Manchester, on the grounds that his father was known to be pro-slavery.

I'd never heard of him either admittedly.

 

[Grinner]

you're either a racist or not, I thought. There are no degrees of racism.

 

[sammsky1]

To be fair the vast majority of people don't know who the people the statues represent are. I'd never heard of Colston before the weekend.

This seems ridiculous though

Manchester city council is under pressure to remove a statue of Sir Robert Peel in Piccadilly Gardens. Over a thousand people have signed a petition demanding the removal of the memorial to the two-time British Prime Minister, born in Bury in Greater Manchester, on the grounds that his father was known to be pro-slavery.

I'd never heard of him either admittedly.

That is the point I'm making. The Colston and Churchill incident has lit a fuse, way beyond just people of colour.

Im responding to @oates, who was mocking me on the scale of this fuse. It's playing out just as I stated it would, and in a very positive way. The only people whom will feel marginalised by this is those who revelled in the feelings of Rule Brittannia and the power of the empire.

Britain no longer has an empire, nor does it stand for white greatness. Britain is a multi racial, multi religion nation based on equality and democracy. And so it shouldn't publicly glorify people from the past which do not reflect its current beliefs. If needs must, put the statues in a museum of disgrace where we can all visit and be encouraged to throw rotten cabbage at.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Hadn't heard any of this before. Pretty grim stuff.

Same. It would be good to have a source or sources to educate myself on the actual history. As others have said, history is largely written by the victor so it can be hard to understand what actually happened.

 

[sammsky1]

Same. It would be good to have a source or sources to educate myself on the actual history. As others have said, history is largely written by the victor so it can be hard to understand what actually happened.

Literally loads of well researched documentary has been published, small sample below.

Ghandi certainly held some racist opinions regrading blacks in South Africa. I would ask you one thing particular: what actions against other people did those beliefs lead to. Would love to know what you think once you've done your reading.

https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/co...usly-on-and-off-the-field/article31790453.ece
https://www.npr.org/2019/10/02/7660...ce-and-sex-are-under-scrutiny?t=1591726828527
https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/Was-Gandhi-a-racist/article16754773.ece
https://www.theweek.co.uk/98519/was-gandhi-racist
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005ZO8J0O/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1