Woodward, Glazers....

[croadyman]

I disagree I though Williams did well for his first season, made mistakes sure, but considering it was his first premier league season he was decent and will likely be better this season if we don't find a clear upgrade. If an upgrade is available then yeah let's get them, but city has been trying to sign a decent left-back for years and has been struggling so it not always easy.

Telles for me would just be blowing 20+ million mid-table left-back coming into his late 20's. its the kind of signing that just inflates the size of the squad rather then improves it.

Mykolenko I know very little about so I can't judge, if he is an upgrade on Shaw and Williams and they accept a reasonable fee and contract that means if it doesn't work out we can actually sell him, unlike most of the signings we make. then yeah go for it. But what we don't want to do is make signings for the sake of signings. That's what got us into this mess.

I just feel Brandon needs to move to the other side and be backup to Wan Bissaka because he is naturally right footed, in regards to Telles he is a similar if not same age as Shaw so think that is why he would be a very useful backup and offers a lot more going forward than Luke, think he can also take set pieces as well which is another bonus he has too.

 

[Giggsyking]

I wonder which side Ole will take, the Leaches who are profiting from the club or the fans?

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I just feel Brandon needs to move to the other side and be backup to Wan Bissaka because he is naturally right footed, in regards to Telles he is a similar if not same age as Shaw so think that is why he would be a very useful backup and offers a lot more going forward than Luke, think he can also take set pieces as well which is another bonus he has too.

but were discussing bringing in someone who may be a decent backup, possibly may get in the team. Maybe he would be a significant upgrade on what Williams could do there in a second season maybe not, were certainly not talking about a significant upgrade on Shaw. And do we really want to buy more Squad players? for me i think absolutely not the squad is HUGE! we dont need depth.

 

[::sonny::]

I don’t forget

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[bond19821982]

I don’t forget

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

The start of our demise. That fecking moment !

 

[Ali Dia]

with this 838m we could have bought Messi, Ronaldo, Mbabe, KDB and Sancho.

to be fair we’ve spent close to a billion quid... on absolute shit. Nothing makes me think we’d have done much more with another few hundred million. The club needed to readjust and modernise but it’s taking forever and it gone way beyond a joke at this stage. Something fundamental is broken in our setup. It’s either Ed being incompetent and backing the wrong managers or not backing managers or it’s the glazers with their random spending and cuts, protecting shit assets that other clubs wouldn’t take on a free, letting Old Trafford get run down or sucking the profit out of the club that’s obviously needed to turn things around. I couldn’t really give a shit how much the glazers take out as long as we are competing and improving. The transfer approach this summer and in 2018 is throwing in the towel before you’ve even began to take any risk at all. It’s sickening not helping the manager and squad after they defied expectations last season with a skeleton squad. Do they care about fan (customer) morale or how it’ll look to the outside if things hit the skids this season? There’ll be war!

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Until United fans get some backbone again, they will slowly destroy the club.

It’s too late. The majority are just happy to challenge for 4th now.

 

[Adnan]

All they have to do is take away the power from the manager when it comes to recruitment. Give precedence to the scouts who work under a Sporting Director who collates all the gathered info.

We would then have the same vision that would align the whole football department in one direction, one road. There would still be bumps in the road and mistakes will be made which is normal at any club. But we would still have continuity/stability even if the head coach is sacked and wouldn't require a cull like we've seen everytime a manager has been sacked.

I personally would consider Nicky Butt for the role but if it's someone from the outside then that's fine too.

 

[crossy1686]

I don’t forget

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

That was a kick in the bollocks that summer. Thanks Fergie.

 

[crossy1686]

It’s too late. The majority are just happy to challenge for 4th now.

There's not a single United fan on the planet that is happy with a 4th place challenge year on year

 

[lex talionis]

Yes, but the problem is that the Glazers control over 80% of the stocks, and 99% of the voting rights (each stock they have comes with 10 votes compared with stocks other people have who come with 1 vote). So they are the only shareholders who actually can make decisions.

If the Glazers own 80% of the shares, how would they ever expect the remaining 20% of shares to ever move the price of MUFC shares up, at least substantially? And why, apart from the sentimental value of holding such shares, would anyone ever buy shares of MUFC in an economic environment where growth in share value is vastly greater in technology stocks, to name only the most obvious?

 

[Utd7]

Pity that Mikhail Prokohrov denied his interest in buying the club. He previously owned the Brooklyn Nets. Has deep pockets. Most important, he's ambitious and wants to win.

 

[Revan]

If the Glazers own 80% of the shares, how would they ever expect the remaining 20% of shares to ever move the price of MUFC shares up, at least substantially? And why, apart from the sentimental value of holding such shares, would anyone ever buy shares of MUFC in an economic environment where growth in share value is vastly greater in technology stocks, to name only the most obvious?

It can happen. Many companies do stuff like that. Aramco I believe put less than 10% of their shares public.

About the last point, I have no idea. Dunno why someone would buy United's stocks, when there are better stuff like that, but then the same you can say for many companies.

 

[mav_9me]

Pity that Mikhail Prokohrov denied his interest in buying the club. He previously owned the Brooklyn Nets. Has deep pockets. Most important, he's ambitious and wants to win.

He didn't do good with the nets.

 

[mav_9me]

It can happen. Many companies do stuff like that. Aramco I believe put less than 10% of their shares public.

About the last point, I have no idea. Dunno why someone would buy United's stocks, when there are better stuff like that, but then the same you can say for many companies.

Not sure myself. Only thing I can think is you can make money if the club is sold say to the Saudis.

 

[Revan]

Not sure myself. Only thing I can think is you can make money if the club is sold say to the Saudis.

To be fair since United went public I think the stock price has increased for 3 (from 13 to 16 or so), which is not nothing, but even an index fund (let alone big tech companies that have gone crazy) would have given a much higher return.

 

[Utd7]

He didn't do good with the nets.

Wrong sport. He provided investment but the NBA is a salary capped league. He wanted an NBA title within 5 years and subsequently brought in overpriced veterans. In our case there wouldn't be a salary cap and Ole would be identifying the young targets (Sancho). We'd just have ownership that's committed to footing the bill.

 

[JPRouve]

He didn't do good with the nets.

And United's value represents a third of his wealth which is most likely not liquid. He purchased the Nets for a small amount plus the financing of their 700m$ arena. Whoever wants to purchase United will have to be filthy rich or the investor type.

 

[sammsky1]

Pp

to be fair we’ve spent close to a billion quid... on absolute shit. Nothing makes me think we’d have done much more with another few hundred million. The club needed to readjust and modernise but it’s taking forever and it gone way beyond a joke at this stage. Something fundamental is broken in our setup. It’s either Ed being incompetent and backing the wrong managers or not backing managers or it’s the glazers with their random spending and cuts, protecting shit assets that other clubs wouldn’t take on a free, letting Old Trafford get run down or sucking the profit out of the club that’s obviously needed to turn things around. I couldn’t really give a shit how much the glazers take out as long as we are competing and improving. The transfer approach this summer and in 2018 is throwing in the towel before you’ve even began to take any risk at all. It’s sickening not helping the manager and squad after they defied expectations last season with a skeleton squad. Do they care about fan (customer) morale or how it’ll look to the outside if things hit the skids this season? There’ll be war!

The intentions and investment was good. But in hindsight, it's clear that allowing non football people to make such important footballing decisions proved our undoing. That's not to say that appointing whichever DoF was in vogue at the time would have worked as this policy went against the club culture that our manager should be powerful.

The real issue was we allowed both Ferguson and Gill leave a champion winning team at exactly the same time and replaced them with 2 people who had never met before. Woodward and Moyes had to learn their roles and how to work together at a leading global industry leading organisation on the go, under massive scrutiny and any mistakes would only lower previous outputs. Arguably, neither were qualified for their role in the first place. We discussed this at length down the yeas in this forum: ii was the worst leadership transition ever and is most likely used as a case study at MBA schools on what not to do. And because MUFC is such a massive tanker, the leadership have struggled to find a clear path ever since.

The irony is that Woodward now has amazing hard earned experience of the football industry and the club, and so should be the best qualified person to do the job. And OGS is a great partner for him. And then covid19 happened. The future, who knows!

 

[mav_9me]

Wrong sport. He provided investment but the NBA is a salary capped league. He wanted an NBA title within 5 years and subsequently brought in overpriced veterans. In our case there wouldn't be a salary cap and Ole would be identifying the young targets (Sancho). We'd just have ownership that's committed to footing the bill.

Fair enough. But I don't know enough about him. See next reply suggesting he is not rich enough.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

The start of our demise. That fecking moment !

We won two league titles and made a CL final after that. Our demise started the second Fergie retired.

 

[glazed]

We won two league titles and made a CL final after that. Our demise started the second Fergie retired.

How SAF won that last title with that team is beyond me to this day. Great manager. But the decline began the day the Glazers arrived.

 

[Garethw]

I wonder which side Ole will take, the Leaches who are profiting from the club or the fans?

Privately the fans. Publicly his bosses.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

How SAF won that last title with that team is beyond me to this day. Great manager. But the decline began the day the Glazers arrived.

The team was quite good imo. It was an aging team but still a lot of quality in there. He didn't just win the title that year he got our record points total with it too.

 

[croadyman]

How SAF won that last title with that team is beyond me to this day. Great manager. But the decline began the day the Glazers arrived.

Yeah this has been slowly happening since 2005 it's just that for the next 8 years Fergie's magic disguised the serious lack of investment particularly in that CM area that was left neglected for far too many years. Sickening when you look at him being forced to peddle that "no value in the market" garbage which saw us miss out on the likes of Aguero, Toure, Sneijder, Silva and probably others as well.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I wonder which side Ole will take, the Leaches who are profiting from the club or the fans?

Get out of here with this crap. As if Ole a United legend who was known for his close relationship with the fanbase for all the years he was a player here and even voiced his concerns over the Glazer takeover is 'siding' with them over the fans. It has nothing to do with that. He's going to get on with his job and coach the players he has. In private I'm 99% sure he's expressing his frustrations but he learned from the best to never throw the club under the bus in public. It's not hard to work out.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

HUHG crowd on twitter love making Jose the anti-Glazer hero but let's not forget he was singing the Glazers and Woodward's praises when he was getting what he wanted and when things were going well.

 

[manutddjw]

The scary thing is we’re totally unsellable as a club. To tempt the Glazers we’re looking at at least 2.5 Billion taking into account the value of the club. Even an oil rich country wouldn’t do that because you can buy a club for $300 million, invest a billion and still have over a billion to spare.

 

[2 man midfield]

We won two league titles and made a CL final after that. Our demise started the second Fergie retired.

Because of the greatest manager ever squeezing all he could out of a few legends who were running on fumes. Those titles were down to experienced heads already at the club, plus a van Persie to make it all look pretty. The new signings that came in from 2009 onwards, RVP aside, had nothing to do with it. It was the spine of Rio, Vidic, Carrick, Rooney and Scholes, with Fergie milking them as only he could.

I agree with the lad you quoted, the rot began in 2009.

 

[croadyman]

Because of the greatest manager ever squeezing all he could out of a few legends who were running on fumes. Those titles were down to experienced heads already at the club, plus a van Persie to make it all look pretty. The new signings that came in from 2009 onwards, RVP aside, had nothing to do with it. It was the spine of Rio, Vidic, Carrick, Rooney and Scholes, with Fergie milking them as only he could.

I agree with the lad you quoted, the rot began in 2009.

Yeah it massively set in the summer of 2009 when we lost Ronaldo & Tevez and didn't replace them

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I wonder which side Ole will take, the Leaches who are profiting from the club or the fans?

Unfair. He is stuck between a rock and a hard place. If he wants to keep the job as Man United manager, a club he loves, then he can't run around starting an anti Glazer campaign without jeopardising that job.

If he does campaign against them and then ends up leaving they will just hire another manager who will not campaign against them.

 

[croadyman]

Unfair. He is stuck between a rock and a hard place. If he wants to keep the job as Man United manager, a club he loves, then he can't run around starting an anti Glazer campaign without jeopardising that job.

If he does campaign against them and then ends up leaving they will just hire another manager who will not campaign against them.

Yeah sadly this is an awful situation that he is in right now and honestly I wouldn't want to be in his shoes

 

[Tel074]

Yeah sadly this is an awful situation that he is in right now and honestly I wouldn't want to be in his shoes

It's not an awful situation it's a dream situation. He was plodding along managing a team in Norway and now he has his dream job .
Yes I understand he would love 2 or 3 new players but Ole is in dream land

 

[RedDevil@84]

I wonder which side Ole will take, the Leaches who are profiting from the club or the fans?

Wut?
Like most sane managers, he will stick to what his bosses ask him to do, until the situation becomes untenable, after which we may see some carefully worded statements which are neither here or there, but can be twisted either ways.

 

[blythy]

The scary thing is we’re totally unsellable as a club. To tempt the Glazers we’re looking at at least 2.5 Billion taking into account the value of the club. Even an oil rich country wouldn’t do that because you can buy a club for $300 million, invest a billion and still have over a billion to spare.

You can... but the United brand still carries a hell of a lot of value that you simply cannot establish overnight. Not that I disagree - the likelihood of somebody tabling an offer that would even tempt those parasites is minimal.

Agreed - the rot set in the day they took over. We saw it coming at the time, fearing what's happening now. Unfortunately most of the fanbase turns a blind eye to the realities (or simply don't understand properly) - only 'protesting' during the transfer windows when we're not living up to their FIFA/Football Manger-muddled (modern?) perceptions of football. See how quickly the Woodward/Glazers out trends and threads like this one disappear if we do make any significant signings - just like they did in the last 4 or 5 transfer windows.

 

[Crustanoid]

Can somebody with a knowledge of economics, in ley terms, explain to me why it was advantageous to the Glazers to give Jones, Perreira, Mata etc large contracts recently? It must have implications for their financial situation but I don’t get it, particularly as it’s stopping better players replacing them. I genuinely don’t understand what their logic is

 

[blythy]

I wonder which side Ole will take, the Leaches who are profiting from the club or the fans?

I really don't understand this criticism of our managers who haven't come out shouting, publicly criticising the ownership of the club (which employs them - in what in most cases is their dream job).

Would you?

 

[croadyman]

It's not an awful situation it's a dream situation. He was plodding along managing a team in Norway and now he has his dream job .
Yes I understand he would love 2 or 3 new players but Ole is in dream land

Well if this in dream land for him I would hate to see what a nightmare for him was like

 

[Giggsyking]

Get out of here with this crap. As if Ole a United legend who was known for his close relationship with the fanbase for all the years he was a player here and even voiced his concerns over the Glazer takeover is 'siding' with them over the fans. It has nothing to do with that. He's going to get on with his job and coach the players he has. In private I'm 99% sure he's expressing his frustrations but he learned from the best to never throw the club under the bus in public. It's not hard to work out.

Why are you angry? I asked a question! take it easy mate.

 

[croadyman]

I really don't understand this criticism of our managers who haven't come out shouting, publicly criticising the ownership of the club (which employs them - in what in most cases is their dream job).

Would you?

Being brutally honest I wouldn't accept the job in the first place and I mean that