By vibes and luck, what else?
Would Ole have succeeded with a proper football structure?
- Thread starter Sir Erik ten Hag
- Start date
Maybe at Putney or Repton. They usually have great sport results and a good physical education teacher would thrive in there.
Was there not a period where we tried to play different, then as usual had to give up and resort to kitchen sink football?
Same thing happened when Jose finished 2nd. The media started talking about us winning the title, expectations spiralled out f control, we made rash signings and blew up.
We need to forget about City and even league positions to a certain extent and focus solely on rebuilding the club one piece at a time.
Every time you sign a Ronaldo or a Sanchez or a Pogba or a Varane chasing short term success you set yourself back
Logan transfer went as bad as it could but it certainly wasn’t ’short term’. The others listed, yes.
Regarding your first paragrph, it’s not just second place finishes. A number of people thought we were 1 player away to be challenging this season.
Oh right, just wumming. Sorry, it's not always easy to know what to take seriously around here.
Not a chance. He was a worse version of ETH, with even stranger tactics, stranger first 11's and, worryingly, weirder pressers.
Ole said he was going to try and transition to 433 but then I think he realised he’d never actually done that with a team. ETH has been trying the single DM setup this season and you can see the chaos it has caused. I’m on the side of change, it’s going to be hard and players will get found out along the way, you have to try though.
How proper? Because he seemed to hit his ceiling.
Maybe at proper club he would've won that Europa final but I doubt things could go further
Maybe at proper club he would've won that Europa final but I doubt things could go further
Proper structure would have sacked him after failing to win Europa and got a better coach in…
To answer the thread question, feck no. Ole wasn't even a proper coach.
This PE teacher won the lottery and never been good enough for Man Utd.
Seriously though he was doing fine until Ronaldo came and Greenwood did something crazy.
Anyway, he was never good enough and is a worse version of ETH. Both Ole and ETH are not the long term solution for Man Utd.
Seriously though he was doing fine until Ronaldo came and Greenwood did something crazy.
Anyway, he was never good enough and is a worse version of ETH. Both Ole and ETH are not the long term solution for Man Utd.
We have a better coach now. OLE is past and he is supporting this current manager
I’m not sure anyone thinks that.
However, we were getting humbled for 4 by the likes of Watford & Leicester when Ole was fired and considering how that season ended, many, including myself were incredibly impressed that ETH could come in and immediately bring silverware and better Ole’s best ever Premier League points total.
But this season so far we’re clearly not any further playing wise, yet despite that and the horrendous injury pile up, we’re still in a decent enough position in the table.
My advice would therefore be to wait a couple more months before passing judgement on his second season. I mean, just look what a couple of injuries has done to Spurs & a manager everyone was hailing a matter of weeks back.
Last edited:
Yet somehow our football with a 'proper coach' is worse.
No one's saying Ole shouldn't have been fired when he got fired. But, we conceded 4 or more goals under Ole 6 times - 3 times in his last season (which made his sacking justified). We've conceded 5 times under ETH already. 3 times last season btw! And I think no one here will be surprised if the number goes more than Ole's in less than a month from here
Hmmm seems to be a theme here - maybe try looking at the players?
Obviously. With a proper football structure in the PL, Man Utd won the league 20/21 with City removed. That would be a success.
It seemed to me like Ole squeezed all he could from that team for a period of time. The truth is, ETH is having much better players than Ole and we don't play better football.
On the other hand, it seems like ETH wants us to progress and there is clear vision on how he wants us to play, something I have never seen from Ole who was just a pragmatic type.
I don't think Ole would have succeeded in a proper structure, but I am also not convinced ETH will because I think his setup will not work.
On the other hand, it seems like ETH wants us to progress and there is clear vision on how he wants us to play, something I have never seen from Ole who was just a pragmatic type.
I don't think Ole would have succeeded in a proper structure, but I am also not convinced ETH will because I think his setup will not work.
This is such a wierd thread. With a proper football structure there is no way Ole ever gets the job. He was a left field appointment as interim and then the utterly gormless Woodward appointed him on the back of a massively flukey win in Paris. If had waited to the end of the season no way he makes him permament. It blatantly obvious our recruitment is awful and managers given way too much input, though not sure Ole had the confidence to operate in a system where he had less say. He also needed a top coach with him, though that takes me back to the first point that a decent football structure doesnt even consider Ole an option
Raise your complaints to the OP, not me.
It's not though.
Bingo.
Is it? Last year it was better for long periods, produced a trophy and produced more points than Ole ever managed.
So what are we comparing? This injury ravaged season vs Ole’s best, or vs. Ole’s final season shitshow
Let’s remember too that even in Ole’s average as feck best seasons, we had long periods (even when we finished on 74 points) of being absolute shite; where we in the final 19 games, drew 7 & lost 3.
Well it's definitely not better.
I’d take 2 extra big defeats per season if it meant silverware & more points, but that’s just me, each to their own innit.
I like how you're considering the injury argument for ETH. I like ETH, but if you want to be fair, then account for the fact that we literally didn't have a pre-season in the 74 point season, and the last 4 odd games were effectively a bye to the other team as we were asked to play 4 games in 8 days.
As far as LC goes (or for that matter even FAC/EL goes), I have zero value for them. Feels nice to win, but they mean nothing if you are looking to analyze how well a manager has done, especially because KO competitions are different, but also because you are dependent on luck of the draw.
If your definitive measure of better football is one league point and a missed penalty kick from De Gea, I've got no argument. We'll just ignore goals scored etc.Is it? Last year it was better for long periods, produced a trophy and produced more points than Ole ever managed.
So what are we comparing? This injury ravaged season vs Ole’s best, or vs. Ole’s final season shitshow
Let’s remember too that even in Ole’s average as feck best seasons, we had long periods (even when we finished on 74 points) of being absolute shite; where we in the final 19 games, drew 7 & lost 3.
In the end none of the football has been good enough for where we want to be and it's mainly down to the players.
I consider this season to be nowhere near good enough, but ignoring the horrendous injury list would be silly.
Surely the only fair way to compare is to judge season 1 vs. season 1, rather than comparing ETH worst to Ole’s best?
In their first season, ETH shat on Ole on every metric.
In their second season, Ole had 26 points after 13 games, ETH has 24 points. As you say, both were up against it, Ole had to deal with no pre-season and ETH has had to deal with a horrendous injury list.
At this point though, they are having rather similar second seasons, one of them after a shite 66 point no trophy first season, the other after a decent enough 75 point with silverware first season.
Now if ETH finishes on 74 points this season and is trophyless, I won’t be celebrating like soooo many did for Ole, I’ll be calling it as it is, a really disappointing second season. Despite the problems at the top, for the money we spend & the power we give a manager, I expect a manager to at least manage 80 points in his second season. Only one has managed it post Fergie & he’s the only one really who has a right to be pissed off about the backing he didn’t receive after that 81 point haul.
The others all should have been let go for me, if you can’t manage 80 points after 2 years and spending hundreds of millions on your own player picks, no amount of better leadership at the top is turning you into a Pep/Klopp challenging manager.
Currently it's not better than Oles new manager bounce. But it definitely is better after that.
People want to make up Oles reign, the guy had his backside handed to him to Huddersfield and Everton after his new manager bounce ended. Yes he had some very good games often coming back from defeat but it was just pure counter attack without any proper build up from the back. All of his best games pretty much relied on individual brilliance.
I think it goes without saying that with a better structure, any manager would do better. Assuming that "structure" meant more compatible players, better levels of fitness, more squad depth, better coaching, etc.
His ability to get his teams playing in a methodical, systematic way never really happened. He was decent as a reactive coach, which was slightly (but not wholly) unfairly characterised as only being about counter attack. But he definitely struggled when the opposition let him make the first move. There's a reason why defensive teams at home were a constant problem.
He was also a people pleaser, which is something that never works out well. I think the players liked him, but never feared him, and there were too many times when he couldn't get the players up for the fight.
His ability to get his teams playing in a methodical, systematic way never really happened. He was decent as a reactive coach, which was slightly (but not wholly) unfairly characterised as only being about counter attack. But he definitely struggled when the opposition let him make the first move. There's a reason why defensive teams at home were a constant problem.
He was also a people pleaser, which is something that never works out well. I think the players liked him, but never feared him, and there were too many times when he couldn't get the players up for the fight.
Yes, but then again, LvG or Jose would probably also have succeeded with a proper structure.
I see that Ole didn't just win a second place trophy, he also won the 'one penalty kick away from winning a trophy' trophy. Lofty standards indeed.
That's it; ETH done relatively well last season. But, if this season ends up the same as Ole's miracle 2nd place season - points wise etc - I would call it a poor season.