Would our form typically win the Premier League?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Pogue Mahone, Apr 19, 2018.

  1. Apr 19, 2018
    #1

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    tl;dr Not quite "typically" but in 1 out of of 3 previous seasons yes, it would.

    More details here. This is the most interesting bit IMO.

    Also interesting that our points total after 34 games is the tenth highest we've racked up in the history of the Premier League :eek:

    [​IMG]
  2. Apr 19, 2018
    #2

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots Scout

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    I can't imagine winning the league with the way we're playing, but we do obviously usually grind out results. Such a weird season.

    Liverpool fans would lose the plot if we did :lol:
  3. Apr 19, 2018
    #3

    Bojan11 Full Member

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    I don’t know.

    I always felt to win the prem you always have to go on a bit of a winning streak. Man City and Chelsea in the past few season have taken it to the extreme. I heard the commentator mentioning the other day that we yet to win six league games in a row under Jose. For a team to win the league you need to have better consistency.

    We never really had any form of momentum this season.
  4. Apr 19, 2018
    #4

    BluesJr Full Member

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    This is spot on. The gap between the bigger teams and the rest is even bigger it’s absolutely essential to go on long winning runs now and not drop stupid points which we are always very guilty of.
  5. Apr 19, 2018
    #5

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    Probably not. There's obviously something up with the premier league this season so as to allow a very good side like City to have such incredible results and a fairly good team like us have such good results.

    Okay maybe it's not obvious and there's nothing concrete in the above. But I don't think we're as good as the table suggests. Our 'squad' is very strong though.
  6. Apr 19, 2018
    #6

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    It’s been an up and down season alright. Our longest run of consecutive league wins was five in a row. The fact that run was ended by losing to the baggies and punctuated by the Sevilla shit show took all the joy out of it. Which is all the more galling considering it included wins over our two most bitter rivals (and an epic comeback win against Palace). If we’d beaten Sevilla and WBA (which we were well capable of) we’d all be feeling way more confident about next season. Fine margins and all that.
  7. Apr 19, 2018
    #7

    Smores Full Member

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    We've won many titles before playing very average football. That's largely why they hated us for so long.

    There's no debate really, the answer is simply yes, the question is whether City will simply continue to move the goalposts and whether our form if it stays this will deliver the same points total anyway.

    Domination has only come when the team is fully formed though which is what we have to work towards. Winning titles with average teams increases the reliance on others, he said stating the obvious
  8. Apr 19, 2018
    #8

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    Our best winning streaks since SAF retired.

    2013-14: 4 games under Moyes
    2014-15: 6 games and it happened twice
    2015-16: 3 games
    2016-17: 6 games
    2017-18: 5 games
  9. Apr 19, 2018
    #9

    Bojan11 Full Member

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    Just look at the games against bottom three. Couldn’t beat West Brom or Southampton at home. Dropped points away to Stoke. Then you got losing away to Huddersfield and Newcastle, which weren’t great either.

    It just annoys me more because we might have not won the league this season, but the gap would have been atleast respectable.
  10. Apr 19, 2018
    #10

    Ish Lights on for Luke

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    If we just compare season on seasons points tally, I'm sure it would. It's a weird one.

    I guess everything is relative. Would our points tally and totals have been this good if there wasn't a runaway league leader above us, setting their unrelenting pace, which we've tried to keep up with as much as we can?

    It's probably why every defeat was followed by a bit of doom and gloom - because the margin for error was literally zero.
  11. Apr 19, 2018
    #11

    Ikon Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    Historically, yeah we would be in the thick of a title fight when compared to previous years, but I just feel that the bar has been raised again, and that in future perhaps you'd have to be looking at breaking through the 90 point barrier to be seriously involved.
    Of course, it remains to be seen if City will be able to build upon this season, or if its been a flash in the pan..
  12. Apr 19, 2018
    #12

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots Scout

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    Only one that I can think of where people were saying it's gonna be the 'weakest team to ever win the league' well before we'd won it.

    There were a few seasons of zombie passing but it mostly seemed better. Possibly revisionist though.
  13. Apr 19, 2018
    #13

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    Outside the top 6 and Burnley the league has been poor, hence why so many side were in the mix for relegation. This also contributes to City’s high points total and all the top 4 having final points totals that would have won the league in some seasons.
  14. Apr 19, 2018
    #14

    BluesJr Full Member

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    Correct. It’s a mentality and attitude problem and not so much to do with ability. People will have you believe the squad is terrible and it does need work but that game against West Brom for example was 100% attitude.
  15. Apr 19, 2018
    #15

    Skills Snitch

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    Tough to say but probably not. If City hadn't destroyed the scousers at the Etihad they might not have had that slump in form they did, which is when they dropped a lot of their points.

    Same for us after the City loss at Old Trafford. Don't know how the season would've shaped up, and who would've coped with the pressure.
  16. Apr 19, 2018
    #16

    Camilo Full Member

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    We've picked up good points, no doubt about it. And games like last night are the reason why - sometimes we don't seem to play any better, but the opposition can't get into the game. I do think our points total flatters us this season though. Obviously we've played the league well, but its been far more calculated than we have been in the past.

    The near 30 point difference between 12/13 and 13/14 is fascinating... Same players.. Say what you want about Moyes but he's not that shit. The players let everyone down that year.
  17. Apr 19, 2018
    #17

    Skills Snitch

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    Yes he was.
  18. Apr 19, 2018
    #18

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    I think the negativity is aided by what someone pointed out above. We’ve not had many long winning runs. The defeats have been almost perfectly distributed throughout the season. Just when we start to believe we get kicked in the balls. Again and again.

    If we’d been terrible for the first month or two - and got all our dropped points out of the way early - before going on a monster unbeaten run we’d be miles more upbeat despite having the same number of points.
  19. Apr 19, 2018
    #19

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    Always feel teams feed off each other in terms of consistency and point totals. The best would still be the best if it was one of those weird seasons of inconsistencies like in 10/11 where we won the title by 9 points but finished on 80 points... despite it being a very good side. It's almost like mentally, the teams around you push you on and force you to be consistent to somewhat keep up, even if we aren't that great.

    That's why I always find it weird comparing point totals season to season. Probably better to compare point differences between positions (well off top spot, but 2nd 3rd and 4th are neck and neck, so take out City and we'd obviously be in a challenge for the title, but all 3 would have fewer points as we wouldn't be chasing a super consistent side).
  20. Apr 19, 2018
    #20

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Which makes the defeats against Huddersfield, Newcastle and WBA all the more galling and hard to take. Mourinho alluded to this in his post-match presser last night.
  21. Apr 19, 2018
    #21

    Ish Lights on for Luke

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    Yeah, that's actually true. It's a bit why the WBA defeat over the weekend stung so much. We just beat City, away from home, after being 2 goals down at half time, FFS.

    So instead of us kicking on, and ending the season on a good run....we get served up that dross!
  22. Apr 19, 2018
    #22

    Bestietom Full Member

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    There is too much inconsistency, and we often think we have only to put on the jersey. We need leaders on this side.
  23. Apr 19, 2018
    #23

    Sylar Full Member

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    Yep, especially if we played the same but shit-showed our way through those two games. As bad as the perfomances would have been, it would have been forgivable because at the end of the day, results do matter more than performances.

    Its the losses to the lesser teams which have been annoying. Newcastle away, WBA home, Huddersfield away. Thats 9 points (and thats not including the leicester give away last minute, the saints bore draw). 13 points I can think of at the top of my head. But even if you say teams can easily draw one or two of these a season, the fact is City kinda didnt and found a way to win them (eg saints at home, Sterling got that last minute winner right?). Palace away, Palace missed a penalty so thats 1 point instead of 0.
    We could easily be on the same number of wins as the top season 12/13. Crazy.
  24. Apr 19, 2018
    #24

    Bobski Full Member

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    I would say outside the top 4 the league has been poor. Burnley have had a great season, they are tough to beat but 7th averaging a goal a game say a lot. Chelsea and Arsenal have been utterly rancid, Chelsea are the great underachievers this season, pathetic title defense. Arsenal are stuck in this Wenger rut, going nowhere.

    Spurs have been good given the ground switch while Liverpool are over performing based on their talent and selling Coutinho who was their best player pre-Salah. The points total arguments for Utd having an excellent season do not match up with what we see on the pitch, this Utd might have a better record than previous title winning sides but there is nothing in how they play which matches the performances, not results, of a title winning team.
  25. Apr 19, 2018
    #25

    cyril C Full Member

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    Why not? It is the final points that count. If your point (or form) is better than all your opponent then yes you can still win the league. What might differ, is that you cannot win a Cup competition if your form is unpredictable. To win a Cup, you must win game that must be won, possibly at the expense of other competition if your manager is willing to prioritise and rest players at certain period.
  26. Apr 19, 2018
    #26

    Camilo Full Member

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    Nah. The resistance to Moyes was pathetic from the players. He might not have been a world beater, but a little more professionalism from them and we would've had a far more stable few years. Childish behaviour from the so called leaders of the team.
  27. Apr 19, 2018
    #27

    Skills Snitch

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    Stable few years outside of the top 4? Why the feck would we want them?

    He was a disease, that we took too long to rid ourselves of.
  28. Apr 19, 2018
    #28

    DonFerguson New Member

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    We can finish with a max of 86 points. Our projected GD is 43.) That total would have won us the title in only 2 of the last 15 seasons.

    Here are the points total for the last 15 Premier league winners:

    2004: Arsenal 90 points
    2005: Chelsea 95 points
    2006: Chelsea 91 points
    2007: United 89 points
    2008: United 87 points
    2009: United 90 points
    2010: Chelsea 86 points (GD: 71)
    2011: United 81 points
    2012: City 89 points
    2013: United 89 points
    2014: City 86 points (GD: 65)
    2015: Chelsea 87 points
    2016: Leicester 80 points
    2017: Chelsea 93 points
    2018: City 87 points through 33 matchdays

    In only two of those seasons would our total have done it - during 2011 (an anomoly where two 39 point teams got relegated, in a very tight league where the gap between the top and bottom teams was the smallest it's ever been), and 2016 (another freak season where Leicester won the league and all the top contenders were struggling.)

    It's getting increasingly more difficult because - as other have pointed out - the bar has been raised. Chelsea reached 93 points last year and City look almost certain to set a new points record. Greater consistency is needed. 88-89 points might not be enough for the next few seasons
  29. Apr 19, 2018
    #29

    Camilo Full Member

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    Moyes wouldn't have had to stay for that stability.
  30. Apr 19, 2018
    #30

    Schneckerl Full Member

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    sure but if we would have played like that in the early 90s we would have attracted like half the fanbase because most people would get bored to death watching
  31. Apr 19, 2018
    #31

    Sterling Archer Full Member

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    Thank you for providing this. If we take a step back from some hard to take losses, it's been a good improvement in the big picture over last season. Accept that City have been exceptional, whether you like them or their style or backing. Focus on some great highlights for our season - comebacks against City, Chelsea, Palace, great win against Liverpool, late win v Spurs. It's not all doom and gloom . Zen for the win.

    Also, this .
  32. Apr 19, 2018
    #32

    saivet Full Member

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    All this being said, for most of the season we have played with no title challenge pressure. Who knows whether we would have reacted better or worse than our points tally suggests. The same would apply for Liverpool and Spurs who both have not had the pressure on to win a title this season, yet they are both fairly close behind.
  33. Apr 19, 2018
    #33

    Minimalist New Member

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    Average wins for PL champions is 27/38.

    Small amount of seasons we might win it. A good lot we might be challenging for it.
  34. Apr 19, 2018
    #34

    giorno Full Member

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    You can finish on 86 points. That's good to win the league...4 times* in the last 15 seasons(including this one)

    *twice would come down to GD

    Gonna say, Nope
  35. Apr 19, 2018
    #35

    el3mel Full Member

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    No. We are close but not what we did his season. Cut out the losses to Huddersfield, Newcastle and WBA, and the draws to South and Burnely at home. Losing points in these matches isn't title form, but we're close.
  36. Apr 19, 2018
    #36

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

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    Just because yoy dont like the system jose employs doesn't mean he dont have a system.

    His defensive football is his system, soaking up and counter is his phylosophy, and the it yields result.

    It's like saying floyd mayweather is a shit boxer because he doesn't attack like tyson.
  37. Apr 19, 2018
    #37

    DonFerguson New Member

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    Doesn't*. Philosophy*
    And no, he doesn't. Soaking up pressure and counter attacking is not a system. Neither has his approach yielded the results we seem acceptable. We're 16 points behind City despite the fact that we are filled with world class players, primarily because of his approach.

    That last analogy is so awful, I wouldn't know where to begin.

    In any case, what does this have to do with the thread? If you want to rant and defend Jose, do it in the Mourinho thread. This is about whether our points tally this year would have seen us win the title in recent years.
  38. Apr 19, 2018
    #38

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

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    You really hate jose dont ya
  39. Apr 19, 2018
    #39

    Charles Miller Full Member

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    The managers in the Premiere League are superior now.
  40. Apr 20, 2018
    #40

    tentan Full Member

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    No. Maybe back in the day it would have, but not in todays game.