Keep - He's not the problem. Can't turn this around in one window. Several positives last night, though of course you wouldn't know it from the reporting. See the BBC's "Your reaction to United's worse start in 30 years". My reaction is that it was a shame it was a draw as we deserved more, but there were some promising performances. AWB and Martial back and things would pick up, next window you'd hope we'd get some more quality in and in that or next window ship more under-performers out. The ship is going in the right direction, the question is who has the patience? That's the issue. The press doesn't and many "fans" don't either.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Not at the consistency level that we demand. You'll probably find that the vast majority of "top managers" signed most of their good players rather than creating them out of bad players.
Next game is Liverpool. That has the potential to make it quite embarrassing and hard to ignore.
Keep.
If this team looks average against a League 1 side then it will take more than a change of manager to sort them out.
If this team looks average against a League 1 side then it will take more than a change of manager to sort them out.
Well their not wrong? If results go against us this weekend we could be a point off the relegation zone. We haven’t even had a tough run of games.
Wow, must say i’m quite surprised by the overwhelming lack of patience with some of you guys. While it is obvious we are nowhere near where we want to be atm, at least we have a clear intention and plan forward imo.
When it didn’t work with Mou it was always only gonna get Worse. Ole has been clear that this will take time, its not done in one window to undo the shambles we’ve become. Getting the culture at the club right takes some serious rebuilding, i’m not talking buy 4 new star players(we’ve tried that, didn’t work), we need to find ourselves again as a club, and that means having the type of players here who will have the heart here, not just collect the salary. Getting rid of Lukaku&Sanchez made us worse in the short run, but will be invaluable in rebuilding culture and developing the players who will be our core in the coming years.
Please, lift your heads and look at the bigger picture. This season is not about winning the PL. It never was. It is about positioning ourselves for the future, and the future will be bright. The night is always darkest before the dawn.
When it didn’t work with Mou it was always only gonna get Worse. Ole has been clear that this will take time, its not done in one window to undo the shambles we’ve become. Getting the culture at the club right takes some serious rebuilding, i’m not talking buy 4 new star players(we’ve tried that, didn’t work), we need to find ourselves again as a club, and that means having the type of players here who will have the heart here, not just collect the salary. Getting rid of Lukaku&Sanchez made us worse in the short run, but will be invaluable in rebuilding culture and developing the players who will be our core in the coming years.
Please, lift your heads and look at the bigger picture. This season is not about winning the PL. It never was. It is about positioning ourselves for the future, and the future will be bright. The night is always darkest before the dawn.
We need a DOF.
For instance Matic was a great INTERIM signing. I was happy we got him at the time but I can go back to my old posts saying we should be looking immediately for a long term replacement and/or understudy interchange player. Chelsea fans already told us his legs would go half way through a season. We knew this and still have not adequately planned around it. And dont get me started about right wingers (has this been discussed for 6 years?)
We are a reactive not proactive club and that lack of foresight is crippling us.
Stick with we have twisted to many times since Sir Alex retired its time to play the long game.
Next is away to bottom of the table Newcastle then Liverpool. We will be embarasingly near the bottom of the table afterwards if this form continues. Now is not the time for the collective fan base to have their heads in the sand is it?
He's so far out of his depth it's ridiculous. I'm not roaring from the rafters for him to be sacked but he's shown no tangible evidence that he has the required skills to turn this around or build a team to compete. You need to see some form of green shoots to give you hope that he is the man to lead us forward. Sorry but theres none. And please don't tell me he's made three decent signings while getting rid of players that were no longer required.
The whole premise of this 'poll' is keep v sack. IMO sack takes the exact same short-term approach to the running of the club that has us in the place we are.
The idea that sacking Ole will fix anything is naive. The problems at this club run much much deeper than Ole.
There is another thread on here titled 'appointing Ole was a mistake'. Thats the place to debate his ability or otherwise.
This thread is overtly about the idea of keeping or sacking - at this point in time.
If you choose sack, you are choosing the same short-term knee-jerk approach that Woodward has been at the heart of for 7 years.
So if you choose 'sack' you are backing Woodward.
Yeah I would not be particularly surprised either if they find themselves in the bottom 5 at the end of the month, the schedule is away heavy and young teams don't do well away from home even when all things are right. This feels a lot like Liverpool under Hodgson when they spent half a season close to the bottom of the table.
I would rather carry on twisting than sticking with someone incompetent and way in over their head, that's only taking us in one direction. You'll see in the next month how clear that is.
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I would definitely keep Ole, as a lot of people here said changing managers will not solve our problems. We will just begin the process of rebuilding from scratch and the new manager may have a different view on some players we let go and bring in like for like replacements. We have gone full circle with all types of managers and now some of us even regret letting go of LVG or MOU. LVG was a long-term manager and now some fans including myself believe that if we stuck with him, we would be better off now. We need to just go through this pain period and see where it takes us. There is no quick fix for this mess and clearing it up will a couple of years at least.
The problems are at the ownership and the board level and no manager will do well with this team. At least Ole cleared the deadwood and done what all of us were waiting for. He also signed players for the future, this is something a club will benefit from some years from now. I dont see a point in sacking him until the summer at least, by then we should get an idea what he believes this team should look like. Furthermore, no top managers (or Poch at least) will want to start working here before the season is over.
And to address the point that investors dont care about the performances on the pitch as long as the the revenues keep growing, please take a look at the MU stock performance, i think it reflects that the club is declining on the pitch:
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/Man Utd/
I can only hope that worsening financial performance will force Glazers to sell at some point and we will get owners who actually care about the club. Until then managerial changes will not have a significant impact.
The problems are at the ownership and the board level and no manager will do well with this team. At least Ole cleared the deadwood and done what all of us were waiting for. He also signed players for the future, this is something a club will benefit from some years from now. I dont see a point in sacking him until the summer at least, by then we should get an idea what he believes this team should look like. Furthermore, no top managers (or Poch at least) will want to start working here before the season is over.
And to address the point that investors dont care about the performances on the pitch as long as the the revenues keep growing, please take a look at the MU stock performance, i think it reflects that the club is declining on the pitch:
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/Man Utd/
I can only hope that worsening financial performance will force Glazers to sell at some point and we will get owners who actually care about the club. Until then managerial changes will not have a significant impact.
I couldn't agree more. Woodward should have gotten sacked along with Mourinho, that he remains to this day after multiple failed managerial appointments and six seasons without a title challenge to speak of at any point during his tenure, points to the owners prioritzing commercial growth (of which Woodward is King) above success on the pitch.
I honestly believe sacking Ole now will achieve nothing favourable for the club in the short or long-term.
Is the name calling necessary?
Tbf I think most of the fans are pretty aware that the cheap option was taken and results not being a serious priority (at least short term). A scarier thought is that the owners and management have trulybeen striving for football success alongside the commercial... let that sink in.
Personally though I am not a fan who is prepared to see performances collapse in order for there to be radical change. I dont want us anywhere near the relegation zone ever.
So I really dont feel I have much option apart from pray for Ole and the youth players (plus some lucky future signings) to give us a miracle. And that is what I am doing and they have my support 100%
I want to see where we are at Christmas. We've not even played any teams sitting in the bottom six of the table yet.
At this point I don't really know. When Jose was going downhill it was obvious. Now I just struggle to see a way out whenever Ole does get binned. This whole issue is so much bigger than just him, but he's certainly not going to fix us, so whats the point of him being in charge, even if him leaving will not solve everything.
I read somewhere that recently during sponsors briefing or whatever that's called one of the main topics was how does official app work in China...
I agree, that was a poor choice of words, I never meant to insult him, for that I apologise.
Incompetent and way in over their head would be a more appropriate term to use. Fixed my post.
The thing is we haven't even had a tough run of fixtures yet. Newcastle have had a hard run and look where they are. It's easily done and I can see us mirroring their form easily given what we're witnessing.
We're definately on course to emulate Liverpool's season under Hodgson.
There's over 80% of the season still to play though, the season doesn't have to be written off yet again, if we are willing to make the difficult decisions to stop it.
How did we get on away to AZ Alkmaar and NewCastle United, I must have missed those results.
I'm sticking to keep. I don't see us having better alternatives up our sleeves. I do believe our playstyle has changed - once again we loose point to a personal error or a missed penalty. After Arsenal scored, we took over the game again and created some chances. I believe Ole will turn this around, and I also believe he'll get enough time to do so. Unless the players start slamming him in the media.
I struggle to see what Jesse offers as our #10 if we disregard his rather high pressing at times.
I struggle to see what Jesse offers as our #10 if we disregard his rather high pressing at times.
No point in sacking him now with no alternatives available. He's doing what he could with a depleted squad. Would like to see Ed resign before Ole does.
Martyn Pert's experience spans with Bahrain, Vancouver white caps and Cardiff during Ole's glory days. Andrew Meredith started in Hockey then he moved into football in Australia only to land a job with mighty St Pauli. Micheal Clegg's only experience in coaching came under Roy Keane whilst at Sunderland. That was quite glorious isn't it. Ed Leng experience in football was at Melbourne Australia and Spurs academy. Charlie Owen was promoted from the U18s. This 'restructuring' is in line with that of Carrick (no coaching experience whatsoever), Mckenna (U18 experience with Spurs and us), Phelan (Sir Alex's cone maestro whom Ole picked while rotting with Central Coast Mariners) and of course Ole, the guy who had been disastrous in any permanent job he had as EPL permanent manager.
We're probably not shouting it from the rooftops because there's really nothing to shout about. No wonder the team stinks of inexperience and naive tactics.
I think once someone represents you as a player with such distinction and achieves so much, it would be impossible to ever turn on him the way many fans turned on Jose.
His only connection was as manager, he had nothing of MUFC about him previously, and we all knew it was a 3-ish year project and would at some point end the way it did.
With Ole it's different, the people that don't think it's the right appointment will still get behind his team a lot more than if it was anyone else.
Who knows, that factor might help us turn a corner at some point. Look at Steve Bruce - he's a local lad to Newcastle but never played for them and if Alan Shearer was manager right now I think it would be a different story. In a similar way, over time they made Benitez almost an honorary Geordie and he was untouchable.
Can't fans be strange
.And I'm yet to see anyone suggesting an alternative in this point of time. There was Howe and Allardyce which I don't consider a serious suggestion.
Why not? Is it not relevant? You say that he has shown no evidence of being able to build a team but he has. Maguire & AWB look like very good additions, and the punt on Daniel James looks like a good one too.
Keep.
If things dont change for the better(meaning actually being able to see what we trying to do in attack) before Christmas i might change my opinion
If things dont change for the better(meaning actually being able to see what we trying to do in attack) before Christmas i might change my opinion
A caretaker till the end of the season which is a write off either way, and meanwhile work behind the scene to sort out a permanent manager for the summer.
Someone with the right ideas, with a style or play, innovative tactically, someone who hasn’t peaked yet, something we haven’t tried before, someone who could hopefully turn us into a dominant and proactive side.
No alternatives, we are man United, we are still able to flex our muscles and if a team like Leicester were able to get a good manager like Rodgers from celtic halfway through the season then why wouldnt we be able to get a manager of his quality better at this point in the season?
I voted keep, if I thought the board would remove Woodward from his position along with Ole, hire an experienced DOF and a manager like Nagelsmann who would play exciting, attacking football and continue the development of players like Greenwood, Axel, Gomes and James, I'd be all for it, but this board will keep Woodward and probably hire a pragmatist like Allegri who wont want to bother with those young players and we'll be back in Joseville, no thanks.
Methodocal possession, it was very borng but you could see what he was trying to do, he just didn't have the players for it but was too stubborn/arrogant to realize it. Ole seenmed to have a style of play at the start of the season but it disappeared after 3 or 4 games, same last season where by the end of the season we were unrecognizable from the high pressing, high energy, quick tempo team Ole started out playing.
Lots of things it seems. Any names perhaps who checks all the boxes you mentioned?
He didn't have the players cause he made shit transfers yes. Methodical possession didn't achieve anything nor it would in the long run.
Nagelsmann.
Problem at Leicester was just the manager. Rest of their club is all pulling in the same direction. Ours it's not. A good manager alone will not able to bring us to top. We need structural changes to happen, Ed to diminish his power and bring in a DOF. DOF sit down and give a thought of what type of play style we are going to play and what manager suits the style. Then comes the change in manager.
Nice bit of googling there. It must have really meant something to you to post your latest moan to do that much googling.
So people have suggested alternatives. Pretty sure there were other names like Allegri, Nagelsmann, and Blanc mentioned, too.
I also don't see how Howe isn't a "serious" suggestion when he is clearly a far better manager than the one we currently have.
Nagelsmann paired up with Ed is a disaster waiting to happen. We need a DOF if we are to bring him.
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