Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole end of season & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


Results are only viewable after voting.

langster

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Your posts were incredibly condescending to be fair. Just because someone shares a different opinion than you on our manager, who is severely under-performing, doesn't make them wrong.
That's fair enough and I agree I have been antagonistic, but I'm sick of the constant negativity and the sense of entitlement too.

There are so many positives and it seems nobody wants to mention that. Also, a dose of reality and perspective wouldn't go amiss. thanks so point
 

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That's fair enough and I agree I have been antagonistic, but I'm sick of the constant negativity and the sense of entitlement too.

There are so many positives and it seems nobody wants to mention that. Also, a dose of reality and perspective wouldn't go amiss. thanks so point
I honestly don't see any real positives. I mean, ignoring the actual results, which have been terrible, the football itself has been really bad, the squad has somehow gotten worse despite £200m being spent, the team don't look well coached in any capacity, the signings have been .. meh, overall, though obviously Bruno could be great. You can tell people they're being entitled all they want but the fact is that we are rubbish to watch in most games we play and that has zilch to do with entitlement and wanting trophies and being a glory hunter or whatever, that's a fundamental problem because football is meant to be enjoyable and we are categorically not enjoyable.

I really don't see it as a sense of entitlement to be disappointed at your team A) playing shit football, B) getting shit results, C) getting worse and worse as the season goes on, but I guess I'm just one of those negative moany cnuts eh?
 

Shamana

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That's fair enough and I agree I have been antagonistic, but I'm sick of the constant negativity and the sense of entitlement too.

There are so many positives and it seems nobody wants to mention that. Also, a dose of reality and perspective wouldn't go amiss. thanks so point
I think i've rarely heard about so many positives in football without being measured by the performance on the pitch. I think a fair excuse Ole has is injury's to key players, but that's about it. It's really hard to comprehend how we can be behind Wolves, Leicester, Sheffield United and Everton at this stage of the season. And Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea have been woefully underwhelming as well, so there has never really been an easier year to break into the top 4.
 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

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Think that's a fair assessment. People who claim everything hes done is horrible are as silly as the people who see now fault in him.

Those bolded part is what confuses me about his tenure here. Why in the flying feck can we manage to beat Chelsea and City x2, beat Spurs and Leicester and be the only team to manage to take points of Liverpool, yet handing Burnley, Soton, Bournemouth and Palace is just too much to ask?

And its not as simple as "our tactics suit those opponents". If the key to beating those teams were just "counterattack lol" then they would have dropped a lot more points and would not be where they are in the table. And in those games we drop points, its not like we are bombarding them with chances and pin them back. They match us pretty much on the entire pitch and we have been dogshit in so, so many of those games, barely registering a single shot on target
An interesting question in a sea of regurgitated cliches from both sides of the spectrum. And, all things considered, this is the big question, isn't it? Twice this season Solskjaer found himself with his back to the wall after a series of horrible results and most people believed that a battering from Liverpool or the back to back games against Spurs and City would put the final nail in the coffin for him and twice he was able to devise miraculous escapes. On the other hand, he has never managed to capitalize on these big wins and build the winning streaks that could help the team push for better things on the PL table. As a result, we have amassed 35 points from 25 games which according to the PL averages over the last decade puts us in 8th place (right where we are) but 12 points away from the CL positions.

Some stats first. I know many people hate them but until we find a better way to measure performances, i guess they'll have to do. Here's a couple that i find a bit interesting: I took the liberty of classifying our games into three categories under the prism of xGoals. Firstly, we have the games in which we can claim that we were better than our opponents. Since what constitutes "being better than your opponent" is subjective (we've seen it on this forum), i tried to quantify it by setting a 0.40 xG difference as the bar for a "deserved win". An xG of 0.40 is what a very good chance, a more than decent tete-a-tete with the keeper, is worth. If by the end of the 90 minutes you have created at least one more clear-cut chance than your opponent, let's presume that you deserved to win the game. Similarly, there are the games in which our opponents had a better xGoals percentage by 0.40 or more and these are the games we "deserved to lose". Finally, there are games where neither we or our opponents were "clearly better". These are the games with a difference in xGoals was less than 0.40 either way. I think it's fair enough.

Games with >0.40 xG in our favour: 15, W:8, D:4, L:3

Games with >0.40 xG in our opponents' favour: 5, W:1, D:1, L:3

Games with a <0.40 xG for either team: 5, W:0, D:2, L:3


Interestingly enough, our season opener and Mourinho's return to OT were the only occasions on which we managed to outperform a top-six opponent and therefore, one can argue that it's not only down to a particular game style that suits us. Another interesting fact is that 6/15 games where we were the better team are our first six games. So, one can point towards the absence of Pogba in terms of creativity and towards the importance of having both Martial and Rashford on the pitch. But is that all there is to it?

When it comes to xG90 ( expected goals per 90 minutes), we look far more threatening when we're already a goal or more than a goal up (1.90 and 2.61 respectively). We find the most difficulties to get a goal when the score is level (1.37). In comparison, all the sides in the top-four have very good stats when the game is level. In this sense, it should not come as a surprise that in 11/15 of our "better" games we were in the lead 1/3 into the game. Our only win when we were "worse" than our opponent came at the Etihad when we also had an early lead to protect. Furthermore, it explains that it's not just bad luck that we haven't managed to win any of our five games that were "in the balance". It also tells us it's a simple fact that, whenever the opposition is forced to attack and leave spaces behind its defence, we indeed find it easier to create chances. It's not just against the big sides, seemingly it's a trend since the first week of the season.

Let us dig a bit deeper, shall we? Are the chances we create good enough to win us games or is our xG accumulator a product of many mediocre/poor chances being added up more often than not? Here's another interesting stat:

Team--------Shots in the penalty area---Shots in the six-yard box---xG/Sh (from open play)/goals from open play.

United---------------167------------------------------25--------------------0.10/26
City------------------287------------------------------52--------------------0.14/54
Liverpool------------251------------------------------31--------------------0.15/44
Chelsea-------------242------------------------------27--------------------0.12/31
Spurs----------------157------------------------------22--------------------0.12/33
Leicester------------192------------------------------30--------------------0.13/43
Arsenal--------------167------------------------------25--------------------0.12/21


The stats suggest that it's the latter. We are on par with Arsenal and slightly better than Spurs who both are going through, admittedly, horrendous seasons and are still trying to find their footing after changing managers. We don't know how well Mourinho and Arteta will perform in the future but it's again a fact that both these clubs acted on seeing such bad stats. An important aspect is the expected goals per shot statistic. Now, xG doesn't take into consideration who's taking the shot but it focuses on the angle, the proximity and the position of the defenders. xG/Sh 0.10 is quite damning. It tells us that we often score goals by the quality of a first team that is deemed as garbage by most people who believe that Solskjaer is doing a fine job.

Long story short: We miss our injured players and we should have got Bruno at the beginning of the season. But there are very few things which suggest that United have a clear plan on the pitch or that we have developed patterns of attacking play that will help us win more often than draw or lose. And in 2/3 games in which Solskjaer managed to survive while being in the ropes, it was his Benitez-like quality to shut up shop and defend valiantly that neutralized the opponent's strengths that did the job more than anything else.
 

90 + 5min

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I want some of what you're smoking because that is pure fantasy.
That is your response? What you call fantasy is what is reality. I would advise many in here to take coachning badges and more then half of you would change your opinion.
Time and patience are irrelevant if you have picked the wrong manager and someone who isn’t competent enough to do the job.
But if you don’t give managers time you can’t say that it is wrong manager. I don’t think he is doing bad job looking at state of the squad and club when he came. You lot are quick to judge.
 

b82REZ

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That is your response? What you call fantasy is what is reality. I would advise many in here to take coachning badges and more then half of you would change your opinion.

But if you don’t give managers time you can’t say that it is wrong manager. I don’t think he is doing bad job looking at state of the squad and club when he came. You lot are quick to judge.
Ahh the good old coaching badges argument. I assume you're now going to claim to be a Fa qualified coach with over 30 years experience.
 

Roboc7

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That is your response? What you call fantasy is what is reality. I would advise many in here to take coachning badges and more then half of you would change your opinion.

But if you don’t give managers time you can’t say that it is wrong manager. I don’t think he is doing bad job looking at state of the squad and club when he came. You lot are quick to judge.
There’s nothing in his career to suggest he is capable of doing the job and as expected he looks out of his depth and is failing. Time is unlikely to change that, correct the error of appointing him and move on.
 

Wolfmother

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Ahh the good old coaching badges argument. I assume you're now going to claim to be a Fa qualified coach with over 30 years experience.
No, that one is me. Although most of them years was as a player.. Agree with him fully anyhow.


There’s nothing in his career to suggest he is capable of doing the job and as expected he looks out of his depth and is failing. Time is unlikely to change that, correct the error of appointing him and move on.
Yes there is. But I’m guessing you haven’t looked to close at it.
 

b82REZ

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No, that one is me. Although most of them years was as a player.. Agree with him fully anyhow.



Yes there is. But I’m guessing you haven’t looked to close at it.
The fact that you and the previous poster think that makes your opinion anymore valid is laughable though.

My dad was a professional footballer. While he knew a lot he was often wrong and sometimes would be blindly loyal, he was very much a give Moyes time back in 2014. But he also wasn't arrogant enough to claim no one could question him just because of his former career.

The fact that there are so few successful ex players who become top managers is testament to this.
 

Roboc7

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No, that one is me. Although most of them years was as a player.. Agree with him fully anyhow.



Yes there is. But I’m guessing you haven’t looked to close at it.
Not sure what you mean by that but previous and current performance are indication of what to expect. Ole is
nowhere near the required level in either, Molde gave him time in his second spell and he couldn’t win the league so time didn’t help him then. Since he left they won it though so change isn’t a bad thing if things aren’t working.

He failed in Premier League, failed in Championship with Cardiff, other than initial caretaker spell his record here is really poor. Peaked in first spell in Norway which isn’t even in top 20 leagues in Europeans is well below Championship level. He’s not even managed at Championship level successfully so I’m not surprised he’s struggling.

Playing under SAF and knowing the club aren’t actually very helpful qualities in comparison to qualities that a good manager at this level has.
 
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Denis' cuff

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Im pretty sure most fans around the world think equate United at it's best is the years under Busby and Ferguson because they mainly played entertaining football and were succesfull on the pitch. Ole hasn't delivered on the pitch and I can't see any sane reason to believe there arent managers out there who can do a better job.
both Busby and Ferguson took a bit longer than 3 years to build a title winning team
 

Majima

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both Busby and Ferguson took a bit longer than 3 years to build a title winning team
Can people stop with the asinine comparisons to Busby & Ferguson?

Is that meant to be an actual defence? Time will turn him into them given long enough?

Ole is nothing like Ferguson for one. His imprint on this team in 14 months so far is that of a coward. £130m on defenders in the summer & we cannot defend without camping in our own half. The late token subs etc. He is terrified to take risks, even at home. Because he is scared of losing instead.

The past Wolves game is a testament. I beg anyone to re-watch that match and see how many players we attacked with, compared to how many we kept back throughout. Keep in mind Wolves played with 5 at the back themselves. It was genuinely disgraceful.

Since when was SAF scared to take risks at home, to throw the kitchen sink at opponents if he had to? Give it a rest.
 
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Shamana

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both Busby and Ferguson took a bit longer than 3 years to build a title winning team
Yeah, but you can also look at all the other long-term managers out there who were not succesfull despite having time on their side. Saf was the exeption not the rule. Moyes might have been better if he got 3 years, but no one could stand the site of him by the time he was fired.
 

Majima

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I have never said he hasn't been backed. I say that we have to buy more. And any manager that comes will have to buy. I don't get this sudden liking for Smalling. Don't people look at Roma games? He is still same old Smalling except that he plays in a league where it is easier to defend. I like his personality and he could have been here as backup but stating that Maguire is at best modest upgrade is for me wrong. Maguire is a leader. He don't shy away from duties and never hides. He has his negative sides but is lot better then Smalling.

Yes, I do point at patience. Because it is important. Any other manager that comes have to have time. If you put Guardiola in United he would need time. Whoever you put needs time. And time is not one year. I, for example, thought vanGaal needed more time and should have been given. Mourinho would have had more time if he didn't "sacked himself". Like every other project you need time. If you are a baby you need time to learn to walk. If you are buliding a house you need time to build. Now, there is other factors that make time more or less long. Like owners. Like managers. But however you turn it, you need time.

Style? Winning back ball early. Possesion (almost every game we have had more %) and trying fast fluid football when attacking. Not hard to see. Do we have players for that? Not really. And when injuries come we are struggling even more. But saying we don't have system? I don't want to go and make myself as some football guru but it is not that hard to see what Solskjaer is trying and what is lacking for his plan to work the best way.
Explain the past Wolves match & ''trying fast fluid football when attacking'' to me please.
 

Micky Targaryen

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I would just like to add that I accept everyone may have different opinions, that is expected and also welcomed. However, what is not is the tern 'Top Red'

I am a Manchester United supporter. I have been for over 40 years. I have seen success and failure in equal measure from the stands.

This term 'Top Red' is thrown around by idiots many of whom have never even been to OT.

I don't care what anyone says in pixels and lights on an internet forum. I care about the club 100%

If you don't like my opinion, that's fine. Disagree as much as you like,. Just stop with the Top Red shit. It's patheetic and uncalled for and just makes those who use it look like fecking idiots.
Amazing.

You telling people not to use the term Top Red but you went ahead and point out those who never been to OT. I'd like to know your opinion on this. What's the difference between between those who have been and those that never been to OT? Which are the better set of fans? Which group are superior? Is there any need to emphasize this point?

I'm from Malaysia and it has always been my dream to watch a game at OT one day. United has been the one and only club I supported since I started watching football and I consider myself a real fan. But maybe because I never been to OT, I might as well stop debating about anything United and delete my caf account.
 

b82REZ

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That's fair enough and I agree I have been antagonistic, but I'm sick of the constant negativity and the sense of entitlement too.

There are so many positives and it seems nobody wants to mention that. Also, a dose of reality and perspective wouldn't go amiss. thanks so point
List three of these positives. Well more like two because no doubt you'll claim clearing the deadwood.
 

90 + 5min

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Ahh the good old coaching badges argument. I assume you're now going to claim to be a Fa qualified coach with over 30 years experience.
I don’t need to do that. I don’t have 30 years experience. But you would be suprised what I have in coaching badges and in education at university from sports point of view. However, my point is not that I am right or wrong. Everyone have right to their own opinion. My point is that if people took some time and took for example badges they wouldn’t talk like they do and would look at things from different angle.

There’s nothing in his career to suggest he is capable of doing the job and as expected he looks out of his depth and is failing. Time is unlikely to change that, correct the error of appointing him and move on.
There is nothing in Pochettino career that suggest we would win anything but people want him here. Won zero. However if appointed, I would say that he would need time and would back him up as I usually back managers. Not one year. What Solskjaer has done before don’t matter. What he is doing now and what vision he/club have is important. I say, you got to give managers time.

Explain the past Wolves match & ''trying fast fluid football when attacking'' to me please.
I like that you somehow stopped quoting me there. Read what I wrote after that about players.
 

Roboc7

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I don’t need to do that. I don’t have 30 years experience. But you would be suprised what I have in coaching badges and in education at university from sports point of view. However, my point is not that I am right or wrong. Everyone have right to their own opinion. My point is that if people took some time and took for example badges they wouldn’t talk like they do and would look at things from different angle.

There is nothing in Pochettino career that suggest we would win anything but people want him here. Won zero. However if appointed, I would say that he would need time and would back him up as I usually back managers. Not one year. What Solskjaer has done before don’t matter. What he is doing now and what vision he/club have is important. I say, you got to give managers time.


I like that you somehow stopped quoting me there. Read what I wrote after that about players.
Well you can’t give time to a manager that is failing miserably and what he is doing now isn’t helping his case. When there is no reason to give someone time other than you want to give them time it’s game over.
 
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Majima

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I like that you somehow stopped quoting me there. Read what I wrote after that about players.
Yes and I'm not buying it one bit.

We were playing the exact same way at the end of last season with everyone available.

Did you not state nonchalantly that it's not hard to see?

To me, the Wolves match is what I've been seeing from Ole for almost a year now. So I would love for you to explain everything I've been apparently missing.
 
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b82REZ

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Yes and I'm not buying it one bit.

We were playing the exact same way at the end of last season with everyone available.

Did you not state nonchalantly that it's not hard to see?

To me, the Wolves match is what I've been seeing from Ole for almost a year now. So I would love for you to explain everything I've been apparently missing.
I have asked him similar questions multiple times. He'll just side step the question.
 

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An interesting question in a sea of regurgitated cliches from both sides of the spectrum. And, all things considered, this is the big question, isn't it? Twice this season Solskjaer found himself with his back to the wall after a series of horrible results and most people believed that a battering from Liverpool or the back to back games against Spurs and City would put the final nail in the coffin for him and twice he was able to devise miraculous escapes. On the other hand, he has never managed to capitalize on these big wins and build the winning streaks that could help the team push for better things on the PL table. As a result, we have amassed 35 points from 25 games which according to the PL averages over the last decade puts us in 8th place (right where we are) but 12 points away from the CL positions.

Some stats first. I know many people hate them but until we find a better way to measure performances, i guess they'll have to do. Here's a couple that i find a bit interesting: I took the liberty of classifying our games into three categories under the prism of xGoals. Firstly, we have the games in which we can claim that we were better than our opponents. Since what constitutes "being better than your opponent" is subjective (we've seen it on this forum), i tried to quantify it by setting a 0.40 xG difference as the bar for a "deserved win". An xG of 0.40 is what a very good chance, a more than decent tete-a-tete with the keeper, is worth. If by the end of the 90 minutes you have created at least one more clear-cut chance than your opponent, let's presume that you deserved to win the game. Similarly, there are the games in which our opponents had a better xGoals percentage by 0.40 or more and these are the games we "deserved to lose". Finally, there are games where neither we or our opponents were "clearly better". These are the games with a difference in xGoals was less than 0.40 either way. I think it's fair enough.

Games with >0.40 xG in our favour: 15, W:8, D:4, L:3

Games with >0.40 xG in our opponents' favour: 5, W:1, D:1, L:3

Games with a <0.40 xG for either team: 5, W:0, D:2, L:3


Interestingly enough, our season opener and Mourinho's return to OT were the only occasions on which we managed to outperform a top-six opponent and therefore, one can argue that it's not only down to a particular game style that suits us. Another interesting fact is that 6/15 games where we were the better team are our first six games. So, one can point towards the absence of Pogba in terms of creativity and towards the importance of having both Martial and Rashford on the pitch. But is that all there is to it?

When it comes to xG90 ( expected goals per 90 minutes), we look far more threatening when we're already a goal or more than a goal up (1.90 and 2.61 respectively). We find the most difficulties to get a goal when the score is level (1.37). In comparison, all the sides in the top-four have very good stats when the game is level. In this sense, it should not come as a surprise that in 11/15 of our "better" games we were in the lead 1/3 into the game. Our only win when we were "worse" than our opponent came at the Etihad when we also had an early lead to protect. Furthermore, it explains that it's not just bad luck that we haven't managed to win any of our five games that were "in the balance". It also tells us it's a simple fact that, whenever the opposition is forced to attack and leave spaces behind its defence, we indeed find it easier to create chances. It's not just against the big sides, seemingly it's a trend since the first week of the season.

Let us dig a bit deeper, shall we? Are the chances we create good enough to win us games or is our xG accumulator a product of many mediocre/poor chances being added up more often than not? Here's another interesting stat:

Team--------Shots in the penalty area---Shots in the six-yard box---xG/Sh (from open play)/goals from open play.

United---------------167------------------------------25--------------------0.10/26
City------------------287------------------------------52--------------------0.14/54
Liverpool------------251------------------------------31--------------------0.15/44
Chelsea-------------242------------------------------27--------------------0.12/31
Spurs----------------157------------------------------22--------------------0.12/33
Leicester------------192------------------------------30--------------------0.13/43
Arsenal--------------167------------------------------25--------------------0.12/21


The stats suggest that it's the latter. We are on par with Arsenal and slightly better than Spurs who both are going through, admittedly, horrendous seasons and are still trying to find their footing after changing managers. We don't know how well Mourinho and Arteta will perform in the future but it's again a fact that both these clubs acted on seeing such bad stats. An important aspect is the expected goals per shot statistic. Now, xG doesn't take into consideration who's taking the shot but it focuses on the angle, the proximity and the position of the defenders. xG/Sh 0.10 is quite damning. It tells us that we often score goals by the quality of a first team that is deemed as garbage by most people who believe that Solskjaer is doing a fine job.

Long story short: We miss our injured players and we should have got Bruno at the beginning of the season. But there are very few things which suggest that United have a clear plan on the pitch or that we have developed patterns of attacking play that will help us win more often than draw or lose. And in 2/3 games in which Solskjaer managed to survive while being in the ropes, it was his Benitez-like quality to shut up shop and defend valiantly that neutralized the opponent's strengths that did the job more than anything else.
That's a quality post mate. Cheers
 

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Well, at the risk of getting drawn into another debate about this, I will just reiterate that my own personal stance on this has not changed since we kicked off against Chelsea back In August. The squad is in a dire position, I like and agree with Ole's view on the type of players we should be recruiting and I think he will build us a very good squad. We've been crying out for some focus and planning in our recruitment and he will bring that. For me, that is more important than where we finish this season, so the draws and losses don't particularly bother me as much as most. I still love watching us play and in fact I look forward to our games more now than I have in years.

I'm giving him, well, not quite a free pass this season, but as close to it as I probably ever could, and I actually think he's done a pretty good job of navigating us through this season so far with the injuries and shortcomings in the team. I don't care about win rate, or his CV, or that he played for us, or how Klopp did in his 1st season, or all of the other dross that gets dissected on here daily, because I completely believe that what is being done at the moment will prove to be a benchmark to getting us back to what we were, and I won't be swayed from that belief. I've been through enough seasons as a fan that one lean season is not a big deal in the wider picture if it gets us back on the right tracks.

My free pass that I referred to expires in August. If we are not putting together consistent results by end of October I'll want a change, but until then I'm all in on this. I realise that you or others will want to pick this post apart. Feel free to do that, but it wont change my mind any more than I can convince you of what I think. You talk about people using tangible facts to support this, but what facts are there to use when results aren't fantastic at the moment? Call it gut feeling, or instinct, or whatever else you want. My support of Ole is because I like his approach, I understand that it will take time, and I agree with what he is doing.
Quality post.
 

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That's fair enough and I agree I have been antagonistic, but I'm sick of the constant negativity and the sense of entitlement too.

There are so many positives and it seems nobody wants to mention that. Also, a dose of reality and perspective wouldn't go amiss. thanks so point
The positives from Ole's reign:

1) Transfer market - we have seen a notable improvement in this area under Ole. Maguire, AWB and James (earlier in the season) have each contributed to varying degrees, and they're young enough to improve further still. I have a good feeling about Bruno, too.

2) The kids - two of our brightest prospects to emerge this season are Greenwood and Williams. Both have taken to first-team football as if second nature and if they continue to develop, and there's every reason to believe they will given the facilities at their disposal, they have a bright future at the club.

3) Player improvement - Rashford, Mctominay and Fred have improved from last season to the point that we genuinely miss their presence in the team when unavailable. Matic is worthy of a mention here too.

However, the awful win ratio of 36% is impossible to ignore and far outweighs any number of positives. This is a results business, ultimately, and they haven't been good enough under Ole. Moyes, LVG and Jose got sacked for not producing in this area, Ole should too.
 

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I care. When Jose finished 2nd and said it was one of the greatest achievements he had made, people laughed.

I want to see huge improvements this season, starting at Stamford Bridge, if I were to even consider keeping Ole as a good idea. We've fallen for it already by giving him the permanent job after a string of good results that meant nothing in the end.
The only reason you'd care would be that it would almost certainly give Ole at least another season, and people rightly laughed at Mourinho because they knew what he was up to.

I just want us to win at Chelsea whether we deserve it or not.
 

Shamana

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You don't have to hang on his every word, it was probably in reply to a more stupid than usual question at one of his pressers.
I just see a manager moving the goal posts further the worse our results are. When he came it was all about what talented players we have. Not long ago he was comparing himself to Klopp talking about 4 years. Before he became United manager, he said he highly doubted any United players would be satisfied with a 2nd place finish. Wonder how he feels about that now.
 

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You're shifting the goalposts again, the original post of yours which I quoted was in response to another poster saying how the squad Ole inherited finished 2nd. Then you trotted out that ridiculous justification of him focusing on league to achieve that, while viewing cup competitions as 'inconvenience' (whatever the feck that means, since you've devolved that into a semantics debate)

Which me and others have already pointed out to you is not true because Mourinho is one of the few managers in recent times who takes those cup competitions seriously, evident by the strength of the side he puts out in those fixtures. Just look a the XI he put out in 16/17 season in our run to winning League Cup. The following season, we made deep run in domestic competitions, and finished 2nd because we had a good squad with a competent manager who hadn't completely lost his marbles. Not sure why that is so hard for you to comprehend.
Oh well if you and others have pointed it out i've nothing more to add.
 
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That's fair enough and I agree I have been antagonistic, but I'm sick of the constant negativity and the sense of entitlement too.

There are so many positives and it seems nobody wants to mention that. Also, a dose of reality and perspective wouldn't go amiss. thanks so point
Only if you want to spin things positively, but on the face of it, as Massive Spanner says, so far our gutting of the squad and spending €159m has made us a much worse side. There is absolutely no doubt about that. Hopefully our new €55m man will turn the tide now that Ole has at least half a first 11 that he himself is delighted with and has either signed, renewed or bigged up massively (DDG, AWB, Maguire, Lindelöf, McTom, Fred, Rashford).

So absolutely, if you want to buy into the idea that gutting the squad was essential then that's a positive. Many don't think it was essential.

If you want to buy into the idea that all of Ole's signings have been excellent and the "right signings" then that's a positive, but Daniel James is looking at best "meh", and as the season wears on and we struggle to break most teams down, AWB looks like a fullback that we may need to upgrade on if we want to be more than a sit back and attack on the break side. The one signing I personally have been chuffed with is Maguire but feck me, at that price he should be and it's a signing absolutely any manager could've made, hell Mourinho wanted the same signing a year earlier. I can absolutely understand why the signing still baffles many though.

Fred's improvement is a positive, but how much of that is due to him settling and how much is the coaching is impossible to know.

The only 100% positives anyone can state with any certainty is Rashford's form and minutes for Williams and Greenwood; then there's an entire poop soup that can be dressed up as positive but without any tangible evidence in the real World. In fairness to Bilbo, at least he put it as he sees it, this season was a free pass in his eyes for Ole (not "pretty much a free pass" as he attempted to state, as the very next sentence starts with him saying he does not care about results); other fans that are desperate to back Ole would do well to stop with the bullshit arguments and admit to what Bilbo just did, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Coming in here spinning positives and making comparisons to Klopp, Fergie or talking dramatically about our problems starting 7 years ago that Ole is cleaning up as though no other manager (Conte, Lampard etc) has ever had a mish mash of multiple managers expensive signing to deal with, just don't wash.
 
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langster

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List three of these positives. Well more like two because no doubt you'll claim clearing the deadwood.
Of course I will use that as a positive. Are you telling me it's not?

The three previous managers kept the Deadwood and added to it.

If the CAF had a list, Ole has read it. He has removed nearly every single player that the fans wanted gone. He's trimmed the squad, reduced the wage bill and he has promoted youth players.


Just because he's not a big name he's getting shit. Jose was a big name and he got shit yet he spent millions on overrated and old players. He never played or promoted youngsters and he had us playing ugly football.



The positives from Ole's reign:

1) Transfer market - we have seen a notable improvement in this area under Ole. Maguire, AWB and James (earlier in the season) have each contributed to varying degrees, and they're young enough to improve further still. I have a good feeling about Bruno, too.

2) The kids - two of our brightest prospects to emerge this season are Greenwood and Williams. Both have taken to first-team football as if second nature and if they continue to develop, and there's every reason to believe they will given the facilities at their disposal, they have a bright future at the club.

3) Player improvement - Rashford, Mctominay and Fred have improved from last season to the point that we genuinely miss their presence in the team when unavailable. Matic is worthy of a mention here too.

However, the awful win ratio of 36% is impossible to ignore and far outweighs any number of positives. This is a results business, ultimately, and they haven't been good enough under Ole. Moyes, LVG and Jose got sacked for not producing in this area, Ole should too.
Great post. Nice one, mate.
 
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langster

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Only if you want to spin things positively, but on the face of it, as Massive Spanner says, so far our gutting of the squad and spending €159m has made us a much worse side. There is absolutely no doubt about that. Hopefully our new €55m man will turn the tide now that Ole has at least half a first 11 that he himself is delighted with and has either signed, renewed or bigged up massively (DDG, AWB, Maguire, Lindelöf, McTom, Fred, Rashford).

So absolutely, if you want to buy into the idea that gutting the squad was essential then that's a positive. Many don't think it was essential.
Bollocks.

It was essential and most fans knew that
 

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If the board doesn't have faith in Ole beyond the end of the season then he should have been sacked in January, and a new manager should have been given a half season to evaluate the squad and plan for the following one.

I've not seen the evolution from Ole I was hoping for, so I'm ambivalent regarding his dismissal. Ambivalent because I have no faith his replacement would be much better
 

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Back on the Naughty Step.
I just see a manager moving the goal posts further the worse our results are. When he came it was all about what talented players we have. Not long ago he was comparing himself to Klopp talking about 4 years. Before he became United manager, he said he highly doubted any United players would be satisfied with a 2nd place finish. Wonder how he feels about that now.
We do have talented players, some extremely talented players, what did you expect Ole to say? I'm starting from scratch as the squad is shite!?

He wasn't comparing himself to Klopp, that's just how you've chosen to interpret what he said, he wasn't dissing Klopp more pointing out that the guy currently the best in the business needed and was given time. And he wasn't under the scrutiny Ole or any of our recent Managers were either.

Nothing has changed re. 2nd, unless you think Ole and the players are happy.
 
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Bollocks.

It was essential and most fans knew that
"Most" didn't at all. My argument will always be that gradual change would've been the smarter option as I'll think Ole will pay the price, gradual change would have kept him in his job and this will most probably end with us having to get yet another manager in due to the naivety of Summer 2019.

But as I say, if you're one of the many who did, absolutely making a side shitter can then be made into a positive, strange though it sounds.