Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[He'sRaldo]

I suspect you're right. I'm sure he doesn't have any deep hatred which is why I highlighted the word incredulously. I'm sure he doesn't need counseling.

My point really is that why have we become so extreme in our language? Even on this forum you have to pick a side on every subject. There's no room for moderacy. You're either an Ole in man or an Ole out man, a Martial fan boy or a hater. Feel like society has become so divided and use of the word hatred is so divisive and extreme. Why have we lost the ability to be moderate? Just say "Ole's personality isn't my cup of tea", not "I hate his management and have an even deeper hatred for his personality". Feel a bit bad for targeting this poster for a throwaway comment but this kind of excessive language is everywhere you look.

I agree completely with that. I've come to accept it's the nature of online communication; which interestingly seems to be ever more spilling into the real world, blurring the previously clear line between the two.

Communication was always full of nuance when face to face or even speaking over the phone, but when texting arrived we had to adjust to the nuances of that form of communication. For online communication it's an even greater adjustment needed, which societally we haven't got to grips with yet.

I suspect divisiveness and extremity will always be a facet of online language at this point, so we have to adjust accordingly.

 

[united for life]

I don't want to take anything for granted, but those things you listed are not positives but requirements.

A manager coming in would be required to finish around where Ole did (positionally, not necessarily points-wise), and develop our younger talents while going far in the cups. It sounds harsh but that's what it's like at a big club that invests a lot, especially one that invests in young players and in our academy.

I think a final would have been a positive takeaway, obviously an actual cup win would also be a positive. As for the league, either reaching a position above where we expected, or having an exciting style of play while being at the expected position would both be positives.

i’ll agree with you that what you just said is harsh

look, i’ve been a united fan since 1996.Trust me, i know what a big club is and i know what a successful team looks like. We are currently not the team that can win things. We are a big club for sure. The name itself is the biggest in the world. But this is not the same team that won the treble or won back to back titles. This is a team struggling to build up again. We are manchester united, again the biggest as it may get, but to think we can win titles and boss the premier league at this stage is not right...we need to set realistic targets and continue building to go back to where we were.

 

[hobbers]

Posted this in a Poch thread but it really belongs in here...

Bearing in mind Ole has spent around £300m so far, he's had more than enough time and money to shape out his team. We have a young squad (as we're constantly reminded) so improvements year on year should be very obvious to see as they gain experience, and there's been no major squad upheavals either to unsettle them. In our squad right now there is no justifiable reason for anyone other than Mata and Matic to be in decline, everyone else is either approaching their peak or at their peak, there is no outfield player older than 27 who features regularly. Bearing all that in mind, a slightly shorter preseason than other teams (every team had a much shortened pre season), or not signing Sancho, are not valid excuses for anything.

In other words, Ole has absolutely no excuse for taking this squad backwards. So if he does take it backwards this season, by finishing outside of the top four, why would any genuine United fan stick by him?

 

[Pearl's a minger]

Don't really understand these "he wasn't backed in the summer" opinions. It's hardly as if he didn't spend any money. Yes we missed out on Sancho,big deal.Not really sure if he signed that all our defensive inadequacies would miraculously disappear.Sure we may of carried more of a threat going forward.But let's not kid ourselves we've been shite at the back all season and signing a winger certainly wouldn't remedy that.

 

[united for life]

Because semi-finals are irrelevant regardless of manager in charge ? I don't remember the last time a big club considered reaching semi-final of domestic cup as something worth noting at all really. Hell, people forget who reached semi finals of Champions League few years later, never mind domestic cups. We're Manchester United not Southampton. We're supposed to reach advanced stages in domestic cups anyway. Pretty weird really this point for me. Beside I was just saying it also reflects more on the ridiculous Klopp-Ole comparison point, and notes that summarizing it in just win percentage is simply wrong. Klopp had worse win percentage during this period maybe, but he reached 2 finals and got more points in his first season, so better stop making such comparisons okay ? You can't compare 2 managers with just win percentage.

I'm not ignoring the positives, definitely the end of the last season in terms of performance and results were really good, and made more hopeful of current season, but that doesn't mean I should go on talking about reaching semi finals in some cups as some sort of an achievement now for United. I can feel the positives, admire them, and think we have done well without also exaggerating.

We used to mock Arsenal fans for getting "top 4 trophy" for years so I'm not going to do worse than them.

no not okay!! Why do you talk about this team as if it is the same team prior to 2013? Why do you ignore that this team is in its building stage?

more importantly, reaching the semi final of 3 cups is nothing but reaching the final is a great achievement?? You are lauding Klopp’s 2 finals? Oh come on!!

These are times of consolidation for us, getting the basics right. We are not perfect yet, we have lots of things to work on but we also have lots of positives to take note of.

i am not celebrating a 3rd position finish, but realistically, this was the best we could do. It’s unfortunate we are at this stage, but we are and need to deal with it with the right approach. Not change the manager every 2 years!

 

[el3mel]

no not okay!! Why do you talk about this team as if it is the same team prior to 2013? Why do you ignore that this team is in its building stage?

more importantly, reaching the semi final of 3 cups is nothing but reaching the final is a great achievement?? You are lauding Klopp’s 2 finals? Oh come on!!

These are times of consolidation for us, getting the basics right. We are not perfect yet, we have lots of things to work on but we also have lots of positives to take note of.

i am not celebrating a 3rd position finish, but realistically, this was the best we could do. It’s unfortunate we are at this stage, but we are and need to deal with it with the right approach. Not change the manager every 2 years!

The team post Fergie did well in cup competitions before Ole though, we reached 4 cup finals in 5.5 years and won 3 of times, that makes considering a semi final as an achievement now is rather more weird. Our problem post Fergie is that we're crap in the league, not in cup competitions.

Not sure I said Klopp's 2 finals were an achievement but you wanted a fair comparison between both then one of them reached 2 finals while the other only reached some couple of semi finals, and one of them got more points in his first season than the other so that's all. And Klopp was also starting a massive rebuild of his own at Liverpool, so these kind of comparisons just don't work. On paper Klopp did more than Ole in his first 1.5 years regardless of win percentage thing. Not like I wanted this comparison from the start but people are way forcing it all the time.

And actually .. well yeah teams playing in a final are far more memorable than those in semi finals. I don't really remember the majority of teams who reached CL semi finals from last several years, but I can easily say all the CL finalists from the last 15 years or so.

Nothing wrong with the third sentence in your post. I don't disagree with it.

All I'm saying is let's just stop pointing "3rd and 3 semi finals" in front of anyone who criticizes the manager because I honestly feel kinda embarrassed that this is the peak of Manchester United. Let's acknowledge the positives without exaggerating. That's all.

I for one don't actually don't want him sacked now, and I didn't even put a vote in the thread. I wanted him sacked during the same period last season, but at the moment I think it's fair to wait till mid December to evaluate his position as a manager, then again at the end of the season we should revisit his position again and see if we what we would have seen in 2.5 years by the end of current season is worth keeping on with the current Ole project or switch to another manager. At the moment I'm just waiting, and I think the board ultimately are doing the same.

 

[Leftback99]

Posted this in a Poch thread but it really belongs in here...

Bearing in mind Ole has spent around £300m so far, he's had more than enough time and money to shape out his team. We have a young squad (as we're constantly reminded) so improvements year on year should be very obvious to see as they gain experience, and there's been no major squad upheavals either to unsettle them. In our squad right now there is no justifiable reason for anyone other than Mata and Matic to be in decline, everyone else is either approaching their peak or at their peak, there is no outfield player older than 27 who features regularly. Bearing all that in mind, a slightly shorter preseason than other teams (every team had a much shortened pre season), or not signing Sancho, are not valid excuses for anything.

In other words, Ole has absolutely no excuse for taking this squad backwards. So if he does take it backwards this season, by finishing outside of the top four, why would any genuine United fan stick by him?

If you want to bring spend into it then you will have to acknowledge that Chelsea spent £220m+ in the Summer alone after finishing level with us last season. So that's one team we wouldn't expect to finish ahead of this season.

After reaching the Champions league final Spurs had a season heavily impacted by injuries to Son and Kane. Spurs have also spent £230m+ over the last 2 seasons plus Bale coming in for 'free'. Another big challenger.

We were never going to catch City and Liverpool so that's already a battle for 4th excluding the rest. Its not 'excuses' it's just reality that to even stand still isn't straightforward.

 

[Idxomer]

If you want to bring spend into it then you will have to acknowledge that Chelsea spent £220m+ in the Summer alone after finishing level with us last season. So that's one team we wouldn't expect to finish ahead of this season.

After reaching the Champions league final Spurs had a season heavily impacted by injuries to Son and Kane. Spurs have also spent £230m+ over the last 2 seasons plus Bale coming in for 'free'. Another big challenger.

We were never going to catch City and Liverpool so that's already a battle for 4th excluding the rest. Its not 'excuses' it's just reality that to even stand still isn't straightforward.

But that should never have happened, they sold Hazard. They also went into the season with Giroud and Abraham as their striker options, Mount as #10 and Willian as their main man till Pulisic got over his injuries. We had an advantage over them last season and barely took it after squandering money in the summer while they had a transfer ban.

 

[Leftback99]

But that should never have happened, they sold Hazard. They also went into the season with Giroud and Abraham as their striker options, Mount as #10 and Willian as their main man till Pulisic got over his injuries. We had an advantage over them last season and barely took it after squandering money in the summer while they had a transfer ban.

Sold Hazard, bought a very good player in Pulisic and some quality players back from loan who would have all had £20m+ transfer values (Zouma, Mount, Abraham, James). All after they finished 3rd and won the Europa league.

 

[Roboc7]

If you want to bring spend into it then you will have to acknowledge that Chelsea spent £220m+ in the Summer alone after finishing level with us last season. So that's one team we wouldn't expect to finish ahead of this season.

After reaching the Champions league final Spurs had a season heavily impacted by injuries to Son and Kane. Spurs have also spent £230m+ over the last 2 seasons plus Bale coming in for 'free'. Another big challenger.

We were never going to catch City and Liverpool so that's already a battle for 4th excluding the rest. Its not 'excuses' it's just reality that to even stand still isn't straightforward.

Ole has had plenty to spend as well. What about the extra time Ole has had over other managers, we keep being told he needs it and that he is a better manager than his career and performance suggests. If that’s true then he should be able finish above these teams, I don’t understand this logic that we have to just roll over and Ole is powerless, if that’s the case then he should be long gone.

 

[Leftback99]

Ole has had plenty to spend as well. What about the extra time Ole has had over other managers, we keep being told he needs it and that he is a better manager than his career and performance suggests. If that’s true then he should be able finish above these teams, I don’t understand this logic that we have to just roll over and Ole is powerless, if that’s the case then he should be long gone.

I'd have the same view for any new manager.

 

[lysglimt]

This argumentation is so flawed it looks like a trojan horse by an Ole-outer. SAF, like you said, came into a club in a vastly different state. Ole took over a team he was glowing about that finished 2nd the season before.

And again, for a manager who describes himself as a leader type manager, not a coach-manager, there is scant evidence he has the slightest similarity with an actual leader type manager such as SAF.

Keane was right when he said this was the season where Ole will be judged. He simply has to have a good season and to do so he needs to get a consistent level of good performances, which, quite frankly, every other manager in his position would be required to do after the time spent here.

It's not flawed at all - the situations were almost exactly identical.

Ferguson took over a team that finished 4th - and probably would have won the League if Robson hadn't been injured and lost half the season. But they were unprofessional, injured a lot, and ageing. So after that season, they collapsed completely - because Atkinson had gathered a wrong group of players. Not bad - just short-term solutions. And to prove how bad the injury-situation was - the 2 players who played the most that season were McGrath and Whiteside who both were alcoholics.

So what happened - the same players collapsed the season after and Big Ron got sacked in november

Does this sound vaguely familiar ?

 

[He'sRaldo]

I'd have the same view for any new manager.

Doesn't that just mean you should evaluate managers better? One shouldn't give the same amount of time to Steve Bruce and Sir Alex. Give time to those with the required talent, not just anyone who walks through the door.

Think of it the same way as youngsters from the academy. Some are shipped out asap, while some are shown patience even if they flounder because the talent is obviously there.

 

[Roboc7]

I'd have the same view for any new manager.

That makes no sense as not all are the same and given how you get in the top jobs he isn’t new manager anymore.

 

[hobbers]

If you want to bring spend into it then you will have to acknowledge that Chelsea spent £220m+ in the Summer alone after finishing level with us last season. So that's one team we wouldn't expect to finish ahead of this season.

After reaching the Champions league final Spurs had a season heavily impacted by injuries to Son and Kane. Spurs have also spent £230m+ over the last 2 seasons plus Bale coming in for 'free'. Another big challenger.

We were never going to catch City and Liverpool so that's already a battle for 4th excluding the rest. Its not 'excuses' it's just reality that to even stand still isn't straightforward.

Chelsea spent nothing a year ago and Lampard has had to integrate three transfer windows worth of signings in the space of one shortened pre season. Ole has had normal transfer windows and normal opportunities to integrate signings and build his squad piece by piece. He still has had a massive advantage over Lampard and that should be reflected in how we perform relative to Chelsea. Accepting less means accepting Ole is a worse manager than Lampard. In which case, why is he here?

Spurs have spent feck all relative to us on their current squad, have a burned out manager and their most hyped signing is crocked. They should not be leapfrogging us this season, unless, again, we're accepting that Ole has a free pass to drag us down.

City have not had a great transfer window and massive injury problems up front. Also as little time for pre season prep as us. Liverpool have also had massive injury problems including their captain and their marquee signing. Any United fan with a semblance of ambition should be demanding that we close the gap to those two, at the very least.

This season the Prem is looking more open than it has for quite a long time, and if we can't capitalise on that it will be entirely on Ole. And anyone who thinks he has some kind of pass to drag us backwards better come up with a reason because I haven't heard any.

 

[Leftback99]

Chelsea spent nothing a year ago and Lampard has had to integrate three transfer windows worth of signings in the space of one shortened pre season. Ole has had normal transfer windows and normal opportunities to integrate signings and build his squad piece by piece. He still has had a massive advantage over Lampard and that should be reflected in how we perform relative to Chelsea. Accepting less means accepting Ole is a worse manager than Lampard. In which case, why is he here?

Spurs have spent feck all relative to us on their current squad, have a burned out manager and their most hyped signing is crocked. They should not be leapfrogging us this season, unless, again, we're accepting that Ole has a free pass to drag us down.

City have not had a great transfer window and massive injury problems up front. Also as little time for pre season prep as us. Liverpool have also had massive injury problems including their captain and their marquee signing. Any United fan with a semblance of ambition should be demanding that we close the gap to those two, at the very least.

This season the Prem is looking more open than it has for quite a long time, and if we can't capitalise on that it will be entirely on Ole. And anyone who thinks he has some kind of pass to drag us backwards better come up with a reason because I haven't heard any.

Same scenario, two different ways of looking at it. Money spent only matters if it's Ole spending it. We'll just agree to disagree.

 

[Bastian]

It's not flawed at all - the situations were almost exactly identical.

Ferguson took over a team that finished 4th - and probably would have won the League if Robson hadn't been injured and lost half the season. But they were unprofessional, injured a lot, and ageing. So after that season, they collapsed completely - because Atkinson had gathered a wrong group of players. Not bad - just short-term solutions. And to prove how bad the injury-situation was - the 2 players who played the most that season were McGrath and Whiteside who both were alcoholics.

So what happened - the same players collapsed the season after and Big Ron got sacked in november

Does this sound vaguely familiar ?

What, having a squad full of unprofessional players and alcoholics, at a club that hadn't won the league in two decades?

 

[Mainoldo]

What, having a squad full of unprofessional players and alcoholics, at a club that hadn't won the league in two decades?

You have to laugh at the stupid. You also 100 percent know he didn’t live through it.

 

[Foxbatt]

There was a huge difference. Fergie had won a lot in Scottish football and in Europe too when only the Champions qualified for the European Cup. He won the Cup Winners Cup beating Bayern Munich and Real Madrid. So he already had the pedigree. Just like Klopp who did not win the CL but won everything else at Dortmund. So Klopp taking over Liverpool has all similarity with SAF taking over United. Nothing in common with Ole.

 

[lysglimt]

What, having a squad full of unprofessional players and alcoholics, at a club that hadn't won the league in two decades?

1. One club finished 2nd - with a bunch of ageing and injury-ridden players. Collapsed the next season. Manager got fired in december
2. One club finished 4th - with a bunch of ageing and injury-ridden players. Collapsed the next season. Manager got fired in october.

You are absolutely right - there are absolutely no similarities.

 

[lysglimt]

There was a huge difference. Fergie had won a lot in Scottish football and in Europe too when only the Champions qualified for the European Cup. He won the Cup Winners Cup beating Bayern Munich and Real Madrid. So he already had the pedigree. Just like Klopp who did not win the CL but won everything else at Dortmund. So Klopp taking over Liverpool has all similarity with SAF taking over United. Nothing in common with Ole.

The situation was exactly the same - not saying OGS and Ferguson were the same.

 

[iato89]

Fully behind Ole, this is a long term effort, I don't get all the replace him shit when it is only November, yes the league position is not easy on the eye but it is a crazy league in crazy times. There was a stipulation with previous managers, moyes, lvg and mourinho, no top 4 cheerio, I think the club has changed it's view on that with Ole, no top 4 he will still get to build unless we are in serious danger of relegation but the body language of the players, even in inconsistent performances and results says they give a shit and want to play for him that is key, when moyes, lvg and mourinho were close to exits deep in the season, there is no fecking way they would have got that performance level out of the players like we got yesterday especially after a match in Turkey, if we win a few on the bounce the picture looks very different very quickly in this league. He is still a young manager and I have no doubt he is still learning as he goes but he is intelligent and humble and loves the club and unlike previous managers after SAF I have not doubt he has the sense and humility to consult with SAF, just like SAF did with Sir Matt, it is not perfect yet but as least it feels like United, the majority on here these days are so impatient and entitled and have'nt a clue of how football actually works, a lot of them probably just know the SAF era without actually understanding just how that came about with the patience shown to allow it to happen.

How the standards have dropped! And that what ill break us and is breaking and destroying what once was a great successful club !

 

[united for life]

The team post Fergie did well in cup competitions before Ole though, we reached 4 cup finals in 5.5 years and won 3 of times, that makes considering a semi final as an achievement now is rather more weird. Our problem post Fergie is that we're crap in the league, not in cup competitions.

Not sure I said Klopp's 2 finals were an achievement but you wanted a fair comparison between both then one of them reached 2 finals while the other only reached some couple of semi finals, and one of them got more points in his first season than the other so that's all. And Klopp was also starting a massive rebuild of his own at Liverpool, so these kind of comparisons just don't work. On paper Klopp did more than Ole in his first 1.5 years regardless of win percentage thing. Not like I wanted this comparison from the start but people are way forcing it all the time.

And actually .. well yeah teams playing in a final are far more memorable than those in semi finals. I don't really remember the majority of teams who reached CL semi finals from last several years, but I can easily say all the CL finalists from the last 15 years or so.

Nothing wrong with the third sentence in your post. I don't disagree with it.

All I'm saying is let's just stop pointing "3rd and 3 semi finals" in front of anyone who criticizes the manager because I honestly feel kinda embarrassed that this is the peak of Manchester United. Let's acknowledge the positives without exaggerating. That's all.

I for one don't actually don't want him sacked now, and I didn't even put a vote in the thread. I wanted him sacked during the same period last season, but at the moment I think it's fair to wait till mid December to evaluate his position as a manager, then again at the end of the season we should revisit his position again and see if we what we would have seen in 2.5 years by the end of current season is worth keeping on with the current Ole project or switch to another manager. At the moment I'm just waiting, and I think the board ultimately are doing the same.

The team post Fergie did well in cup competitions before Ole though, we reached 4 cup finals in 5.5 years and won 3 of times, that makes considering a semi final as an achievement now is rather more weird. Our problem post Fergie is that we're crap in the league, not in cup competitions.

Not sure I said Klopp's 2 finals were an achievement but you wanted a fair comparison between both then one of them reached 2 finals while the other only reached some couple of semi finals, and one of them got more points in his first season than the other so that's all. And Klopp was also starting a massive rebuild of his own at Liverpool, so these kind of comparisons just don't work. On paper Klopp did more than Ole in his first 1.5 years regardless of win percentage thing. Not like I wanted this comparison from the start but people are way forcing it all the time.

And actually .. well yeah teams playing in a final are far more memorable than those in semi finals. I don't really remember the majority of teams who reached CL semi finals from last several years, but I can easily say all the CL finalists from the last 15 years or so.

Nothing wrong with the third sentence in your post. I don't disagree with it.

All I'm saying is let's just stop pointing "3rd and 3 semi finals" in front of anyone who criticizes the manager because I honestly feel kinda embarrassed that this is the peak of Manchester United. Let's acknowledge the positives without exaggerating. That's all.

I for one don't actually don't want him sacked now, and I didn't even put a vote in the thread. I wanted him sacked during the same period last season, but at the moment I think it's fair to wait till mid December to evaluate his position as a manager, then again at the end of the season we should revisit his position again and see if we what we would have seen in 2.5 years by the end of current season is worth keeping on with the current Ole project or switch to another manager. At the moment I'm just waiting, and I think the board ultimately are doing the same.

you do have a point that pointing out a 3rd place finish is embarrassing for united but I still feel this is relevant under the current circumstances. Not an achievement by itself, but a result to consider when assessing what Ole has done in the context of the squad we’ve got. Not sure why you still want to ignore this. For me, when I think about it, finishing 3rd with a thin squad like the one we had last year gives credit to the manager. I am not proud of where we finished (the lowest under sir alex) but I do not ignore it when assessing what Ole is doing.

also, why do we accept that klopp was starting a massive rebuild but deny that Ole is trying to do one?

why not vote? Based on what you’ve seen, would you keep or sack him? I’d stick by the manager. Not because I was told to do so, but because i can see the club is, for once after SAF, is being restructured. There is a project being implemented.

 

[Foxbatt]

The situation was exactly the same - not saying OGS and Ferguson were the same.

Why is it the same? One, SAF was an upcoming manager who had broken the Glasgow monopoly and got unfaniced Aberdeen to win trophies including the Cup Winners Cup beating Bayern and Real Madrid. He won in Scotland when Scottish football was on the world stage and was good. Winning the Norwegian league and winning the the Scottish League then and the European Cup Winners Cup are two different worlds. Fergie was known to be a top class coach who had already won European Trophies too.
The same like Klopp. Fergie never played for England or United. Just like Klopp who never played for Liverpool or in England. Klopp never won the CL with anyone before he came to Liverpool. Fergie never won the European Cup before he came to United. United had not won the League for a very long time before Fergie came. He came and won. Liverpool had not the League for a long time before Klopp came.
Ole is nothing like that. He was never known to be a top manager let alone a decent one. He never won a trophy in any major footballing country let alone a European trophy. He never even manged a top club anywhere in the World. He relegated the only PL club he managed.

 

[DSG]

Shout out to the mods: this thread is basically pointless. Every time we lose or draw, a bunch of posters one in here and spew crap about how shite Ole is. Every time we win, it’s silence, or just a couple of Ole support posts.

Can we just have a “Bitch about Ole” thread? It’s ridiculous to have a referendum after every match. I’d rather just contain the negativity in one single thread. We have enough of it throughout the forum.

For the love of Pete, the man isn’t perfect, no one is. I swear to God SAF was second guessed non stop on this forum, and he was the greatest manager of all time.For the sake of everyone’s sanity, it’s the right move.

 

[el3mel]

you do have a point that pointing out a 3rd place finish is embarrassing for united but I still feel this is relevant under the current circumstances. Not an achievement by itself, but a result to consider when assessing what Ole has done in the context of the squad we’ve got. Not sure why you still want to ignore this. For me, when I think about it, finishing 3rd with a thin squad like the one we had last year gives credit to the manager. I am not proud of where we finished (the lowest under sir alex) but I do not ignore it when assessing what Ole is doing.

also, why do we accept that klopp was starting a massive rebuild but deny that Ole is trying to do one?

why not vote? Based on what you’ve seen, would you keep or sack him? I’d stick by the manager. Not because I was told to do so, but because i can see the club is, for once after SAF, is being restructured. There is a project being implemented.

I'm not discrediting the manager for the good ending of last season, I'm just tired a little bit of some consistently pointing "3rd and 3 semi finals" in the face of anyone who dares to criticize him at the moment that's all in it.

I didn't deny Ole was doing a rebuild, I just pointed that Klopp too was in a similar spot with Liverpool.

Both options in the voting are extreme for me, either "sack him ASAP" or "Just keep him to the end of the rebuild". I feel like both are the extreme ends of line for where we're at the moment. Things aren't as ridiculously bad as they were during the same stage in last season, but at the same time there's no concrete proof that Ole is the man who will give us the title challenge we have been waiting for. The poll needs a mid option I believe and that's where I'm standing. I don't want him to immediately leave tomorrow, but I'll have no problem revisiting his position comes the end of the season if I feel he's not going to take us any further than now and it's better to continue the project under another manager, or if he's a good enough to give us a title challenge at one point so keep him for another season (something that I honestly don't feel it'll happen under him but I'll just wait and see for now).

 

[iato89]

It is astonishing what I am reading on here, in the last few pages I am seeing people already making excuses for Ole and reasons to keep him if we finish outside the top 4. Is this for real? After 2.5 years (end of season) we are accepting medicority? we are acceptiing regression and making excuses because there are other strong teams? Incredible how much people have now low expectations of once a successfull club, also, incredible how the OleIn supporters will do anything and bring any excuse/excuses to justify all of his defects cover up his deficiencies as a manager. After 2 years we are still having the conversation of Out and In and that says a lot. We have started this season very badly and now because we won 1 game its like 'we are back'! We all know wewill soon again have a bad patch as we did with these yoyo results for the past 2 years. We still lack a style, can only play when teams are progressive against us hence why all of this ''inconsistency'' which for me it is not inconsistency but reality. We have only one way to play and we do not know how to adapt. This season will yet again highlight his deficiencies, no top 4 and he should be rightfully sacked, we cant waste anymore time.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

For those comparing Ole's managerial beginning with us with SAF's, asking why Ole doesn't deserve the same time and patience as we gave him can this please stop.

It's not the same situation in any way.

Ole had already been managing for 10 years before we signed him and had not made any kind of reputation for himself as a manager, (was there a single United fan that wanted to sign Ole as a manager before he took over as care taker? No.

On the contrary under Ferguson’s guidance, Aberdeen experienced the greatest period of success in club history, winning three Scottish Premier Division title, four Scottish Cups, and a European Cup Winners’ cup.

And no the Scottish league is not comparable to the Norwegian, Celtic and Rangers had already won European cups then.

Ferguson’s unprecedented achievements at Aberdeen led to managerial offers from some of the most prestigious clubs in Europe before he signed for United.

So no not the same in any way.

 

[TheDoc]

I'm not discrediting the manager for the good ending of last season, I'm just tired a little bit of some consistently pointing "3rd and 3 semi finals" in the face of anyone who dares to criticize him at the moment that's all in it.

I didn't deny Ole was doing a rebuild, I just pointed that Klopp too was in a similar spot with Liverpool.

Both options in the voting are extreme for me, either "sack him ASAP" or "Just keep him to the end of the rebuild". I feel like both are the extreme ends of line for where we're at the moment. Things aren't as ridiculously bad as they were during the same stage in last season, but at the same time there's no concrete proof that Ole is the man who will give us the title challenge we have been waiting for. The poll needs a mid option I believe and that's where I'm standing. I don't want him to immediately leave tomorrow, but I'll have no problem revisiting his position comes the end of the season if I feel he's not going to take us any further than now and it's better to continue the project under another manager, or if he's a good enough to give us a title challenge at one point so keep him for another season (something that I honestly don't feel it'll happen under him but I'll just wait and see for now).

I'm probably more positive towards his contribution than you are, I'm very supportive of the job he's done so far and I think he's already proven to be a good manager, but nontheless I've reached the same conclusion too. If we're outside the top-four come May, it feels natural to assume that he's taken us as far as he can.

We've had a better opening this season than last, even against Chelsea and Arsenal we looked more on par than we did when we drew or lost games back then and the only fixtures that caused traumatic flashbacks to that era were against Tottenham and Istanbul (with the former simply being "one of those days" which all teams experience from time to time). Plus, we've also had some real top-shelf performances too against some of the best teams around even which I find very encouraging. Our squad is way stronger so even though others too have improved we should expect as much and I believe most will agree it's a failure if we're not there come May.

I've voted the "Keep him and back him" option but that option doesn't really represent my attitude towards this. My support is not that unconditional, in fact it's never been. I've set the bar for him all along and so far he's delivered, surpassed it even at one point (after last season's transfer window not reinforcing our midfield and attack at all I did not expect being back in Champions League this soon), hence why I still love the guy. He'll have to keep doing that though, and what I've always expected for this season is for us to be solidified top-four by May. Solidified, meaning not just stumbling across that line half-broken, gasping for air and spitting blood like we did last season but actually looking like we belong there and own that position no questions asked.

That's the bar I would have set for any manager and it's the same for Ole, so yeah... I would have appreciated more options in that poll it's not very accurate as it stands, those are two extremes and I believe most supporters are more rational than this, stuck somewhere in the middle.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

In my opinion our squad is not far off being challenging the league title, we are only 2-3 top players off from that. You look at that XI against Everton, you know which position for that minimum 2 top players we can do with an upgrade to push us into another level.

And that’s basically tell you what the manager has done when not long ago under Mourinho our squad was miles off and need 10 new players despite of much more money he spent.

Ironically, the Mourinho signings are being sold or likely to be sold one by one except from the only two signings that Mourinho actually didn’t rate (Lindelof & Fred).

 

[theklr]

Ole has deserved the full season or at least until CL is mathematically impossible.

 

[OleBoiii]

When there's an international break, this thread feels like sizzling in a pan on medium heat in a thick layer of oil.

 

[Bilbo]

I don't want him to immediately leave tomorrow, but I'll have no problem revisiting his position comes the end of the season if I feel he's not going to take us any further than now and it's better to continue the project under another manager

I cant speak for anyone else, but I suspect this is the position of the majority of people who back Ole. Its not a 'blindly back the manager' situation. He has to keep displaying progress, but there are different interpretations of what that progress might be.

 

[OleBoiii]

I cant speak for anyone else, but I suspect this is the position of the majority of people who back Ole. Its not a 'blindly back the manager' situation. He has to keep displaying progress, but there are different interpretations of what that progress might be.

I'm also fairly sure of this. I'm Ole In, but I wouldn't even be opposed to sacking him in January if we were far away from top 4.

Simultaneously I think our board sets us up to fail/only reach mediocrity. 99% of coaches wont win the PL with us. Right now the only coach capable of winning the PL with our club is Klopp imo. But he's never coming here. We need big structural changes first. If not, then it may very well take 50 years before we win the next trophy. Liverpool got lucky that the best manager of this generation wasn't overly keen on coaching the biggest clubs. If Klopp had felt differently, then who knows how long they'd go without winning a PL trophy.

 

[lysglimt]

Why is it the same? One, SAF was an upcoming manager who had broken the Glasgow monopoly and got unfaniced Aberdeen to win trophies including the Cup Winners Cup beating Bayern and Real Madrid. He won in Scotland when Scottish football was on the world stage and was good. Winning the Norwegian league and winning the the Scottish League then and the European Cup Winners Cup are two different worlds. Fergie was known to be a top class coach who had already won European Trophies too.
The same like Klopp. Fergie never played for England or United. Just like Klopp who never played for Liverpool or in England. Klopp never won the CL with anyone before he came to Liverpool. Fergie never won the European Cup before he came to United. United had not won the League for a very long time before Fergie came. He came and won. Liverpool had not the League for a long time before Klopp came.
Ole is nothing like that. He was never known to be a top manager let alone a decent one. He never won a trophy in any major footballing country let alone a European trophy. He never even manged a top club anywhere in the World. He relegated the only PL club he managed.

Ole and Ferguson were not the same. That was never what I said - Uniteds situation when the managers took over was very similar.

85/86 we looked on course to win the league until Robson got injured, but at the end of the season the ageing and injury-plagued squad began to show signs of cracking. We won 7, drew 6 and lost 8 of the last 21 matches.
Bailey was constantly injured, Albiston was approaching 30, Duxbury was injured a lot, Moran was getting old and was constantly injured. Olsen had a good season but was injured a lot, Strachan was approaching 30, Robson was injured a lot, Stapleton was 30.We only had 3 players who played more or less regularly that season - 2 of them were McGrath and Whiteside who werent exactly pillars of health, the last was Mark Hughes.

We started the next season even worse than we finished the last. Lost 6 of the first 8, and a few weeks later Atkinson was fired.

And this was almost exactly what happened in Mourinhos last full season. We started really strongly - and then we started to struggle a lot more at the end of the season. And several players showed signs of getting too old or being too tired - others looked unhappy with Mourinho and then next season we completely fell apart. And Mourinho was fired.

 

[lysglimt]

It is astonishing what I am reading on here, in the last few pages I am seeing people already making excuses for Ole and reasons to keep him if we finish outside the top 4. Is this for real? After 2.5 years (end of season) we are accepting medicority? we are acceptiing regression and making excuses because there are other strong teams? Incredible how much people have now low expectations of once a successfull club, also, incredible how the OleIn supporters will do anything and bring any excuse/excuses to justify all of his defects cover up his deficiencies as a manager. After 2 years we are still having the conversation of Out and In and that says a lot. We have started this season very badly and now because we won 1 game its like 'we are back'! We all know wewill soon again have a bad patch as we did with these yoyo results for the past 2 years. We still lack a style, can only play when teams are progressive against us hence why all of this ''inconsistency'' which for me it is not inconsistency but reality. We have only one way to play and we do not know how to adapt. This season will yet again highlight his deficiencies, no top 4 and he should be rightfully sacked, we cant waste anymore time.

And I am shocked thats the conclusion you have reached after reading those replies.

If we end 8th or 9th - fine!

But what if we end 5th with 72 points ? Should he be sacked then ? Chances are - there will be a lot of clubs that will end around 65-75 points this season - as Liverpool and City will get a lot less points than last season, while a few of the teams at the bottom look a lot worse than most other teams. This means it will be a race for top-4 where there are 6-7 very good teams fighting for the positions.

Do people genuinely believe a manager should be fired for ending 5th behind - let's say City, Liverpool, Chelsea (who spent £200 million) and one more team ? Especially if we improve in points total. What if we get 75 points, end 5th, 10 points behind winners Liverpool. Is that really a sackable performance ?

 

[Morpheus 7]

In my opinion our squad is not far off being challenging the league title, we are only 2-3 top players off from that. You look at that XI against Everton, you know which position for that minimum 2 top players we can do with an upgrade to push us into another level.

And that’s basically tell you what the manager has done when not long ago under Mourinho our squad was miles off and need 10 new players despite of much more money he spent.

Ironically, the Mourinho signings are being sold or likely to be sold one by one except from the only two signings that Mourinho actually didn’t rate (Lindelof & Fred).

We could have them two or three players, Ole's results and performances would still be all over the place. Nobody can say with any certainty that we wouldn't be watching this inconsistency next season. It's not injuries, it's not a bad run of form. It's badly prepared team and setup, he's not getting the most out of what he's got. I thought finally after the restart we were seeing a settled team and system, nope. Changed several times and you know it will continue to.

 

[Bilbo]

I thought finally after the restart we were seeing a settled team and system, nope. Changed several times and you know it will continue to.

Of course its going to change. We are going to play close to 60 matches this season (which started late) and against a variety of opponents. Our line up and our system is going to change all the time, because it has to.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

We could have them two or three players, Ole's results and performances would still be all over the place. Nobody can say with any certainty that we wouldn't be watching this inconsistency next season. It's not injuries, it's not a bad run of form. It's badly prepared team and setup, he's not getting the most out of what he's got. I thought finally after the restart we were seeing a settled team and system, nope. Changed several times and you know it will continue to.

Whether we can challenge or no under Ole as our manager is debatable but you can’t deny the fact that he knows the area that United needs to improve in transfer window and how to develop or improve players like Rashford, Martial, Greenwood and etc. Build the squad is the first thing we need to do right now and Ole has done good job in this aspect which something what our previous managers who is proven winners keep failing to do it. Once we have the squad then people can start talking about hiring someone who is capable to win us the league.

 

[Bilbo]

I'm also fairly sure of this. I'm Ole In, but I wouldn't even be opposed to sacking him in January if we were far away from top 4.

Simultaneously I think our board sets us up to fail/only reach mediocrity. 99% of coaches wont win the PL with us. Right now the only coach capable of winning the PL with our club is Klopp imo. But he's never coming here. We need big structural changes first. If not, then it may very well take 50 years before we win the next trophy. Liverpool got lucky that the best manager of this generation wasn't overly keen on coaching the biggest clubs. If Klopp had felt differently, then who knows how long they'd go without winning a PL trophy.

I always find it difficult to debate the failings of the club because we know so little about it. I am not now, and never have been, someone who believes a DoF is the answer to all of our problems, and I've never understood why people are all so convinced that its an appointment that cannot fail. When I look at Woodward I see a guy thats been rightly criticised for making some bad errors in the past, but I also have to be honest and say that I agree with the direction that the club has been taking the last couple of years, so I'd be a bit of a sheep if I piled into the guy just because its fashionable to do so.

We all get fed a lot of negativity from the media about our transfer dealings, but then we get more stick than other clubs do for everything, and I personally have been pleased with the players we are bringing in and, by and large, the prices we are paying for those players. We've missed big targets, sure, but we always did historically - its well known that we made big plays for Gascoigne, Shearer, Batistuta, Ronaldinho and countless other players, but we were never labelled as inept for not delivering them.

I think when people look at a DoF they think 'it will bring continuity' and maybe it will, but to do that we'd have to give that person autonomy over a LOT of things at the club, and to me that has just as big a 'single point of failure' risk as our structure does at the moment. I'm sure the club have explored this option at length. Recruitment wise I think we have a pretty solid mix of adding what we need right now, and also bringing in a lot of potential talent from around the globe to support our future and, hopefully, to add that continuity that will protect our future.

Can Ole win titles under the conditions he has? Sure, I don't see why not. The key to pushing us to the next level now is getting consistency in performance and that's on him, his coaches, and the players.

Just my opinion, and I know that many will disagree.