Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[passing-wind]

True klopp needs time and money.

But the same amount of money and time neted them their biggest point tally, a cl cup and the league. The same amount of money and time netter us 13 pts in 8 games.

This is a fact can any fan on this forum truly assess Solskjaers potential and say he's going to get us a league, rejuvenate the way we play, implement a winning mentality. He's taken the club as far as he can and he's been here less than 36 months we are not going to win anything of merit pending a miracle such as every other good manager leaving the league

One of the post match interviews he pretty much gave the players an excuse to play in a rubbish manner by excusing poor performance in a statement that highlights us having ups and downs. Does this sound like someone who intends to succeed here ? Understand some managers have the resume and credit to make such a comment. But when this comes out of Solskjaer mouth it sounds to me like we are heading for a 6th place finish.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Its funny how Ole In's want it both ways, Ole got all the signings right and has built a great squad but at the same time the squad lacks quality and we can't expect anything unless we spend more money on the same positions he spend al ready.

The truth is that its getting harder and harder to defend Ole, the same arguments about time and rebuild are washed up after 2 years.

 

[passing-wind]

I'm not trying to take that away from him. I agree the squad is in a much better shape for success than when he arrived.

My position is the same in that I don't think he's capable of progressing us any further, to get the best out of them. Look at how poorly coached we are in possession. We're just as clueless playing vs. deep defences after 2 years as the first day he walked in. Out of possession, we don't press particularly well too. It's mostly Bruno on his own.

There's plenty of talented players that are being underutilised right now. Look at Van de Beek. What's the plan for him? We struggle for creativity yet he's rotting on the bench? Look at how he still hasn't found a role for Pogba and Bruno in the same team. You don't want to write him off just yet because of what you've seen us capable of, which is fair enough. I'm not declaring to be a psychic. But I do see a stagnant team. I just don't see how we're supposed to be moving forward with him right now.

Facts we cannot optimise our squad any further than its present playing capacity. We can have Grealish, Sancho and someone to partner Maguire and we will still look disjointed, unable to build an attack, wasteful in possession, lack of creativity, relying on set pieces to score, lethargic energy levels, no cohesion. Individuals don't make a team the fact we are relying on Bruno doesn't speak highly about Ole at all. The club needs to be careful that under Solskjaer we don't start going backwards it's a big possibility if he cannot lift the teams performances.

 

[Leftback99]

So here's the big question.

Firstly, lets avoid all the guff that people have written about Ole being a good PR man or some sort of criticism deflector for the board because that's clearly ridiculous. Assuming that the board are committed to making United the best football team we can be (which they surely are) why haven't they sacked him?

Exactly. Because it's nowhere near as simple as people think.

If it really is as easy as hire 'x' who will work wonders on a shoestring without having to spend hundreds of millions on players and wages what possible logic would the profit driven board have for not doing it?

 

[AshRK]

Its funny how Ole In's want it both ways, Ole got all the signings right and has built a great squad but at the same time the squad lacks quality and we can't expect anything unless we spend more money on the same positions he spend al ready.

The truth is that its getting harder and harder to defend Ole, the same arguments about time and rebuild are washed up after 2 years.

Well he didn't get a right winger that he has been wanting for almost a year. And we can be ole in, ole out but as the fan of this club the transfer window was underwhelming and a missed opportunity to close the gap with Liverpool and city. In fact we have let chelsea strengthen more and go ahead of us.

 

[Volumiza]

I am sort of on the fence at the moment.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I’m sitting on the fence with one foot dangling over each side but currently both my balls are dangling on the ‘get a new manager’ side.

I’m still willing Ole to find a solution to our chronic inconsistency but my hope is fading fairly fast.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I’m sitting on the fence with one foot dangling over each side but currently both my balls are dangling on the ‘get a new manager’ side.

I’m still willing Ole to find a solution to our chronic inconsistency but my hope is fading fairly fast.

Sort of the same. leaning towards a new manager.

When we should play well we play shit. Then when we should struggle we play well. It is puzzling.

There are some signs though that some players are losing faith. Rashford and Martial look like their belief is fading. Just as i say that one of them will probably score a hatrick tommorow.

 

[Anustart89]

Was it? If I can recall, they were one slip from title 2 years earlier and full with internationals.

While Solskjaer took over unbalanced, demoralized group of players.

This is not saying against Klopp. It shows that it takes time to built something that will work in a great way.

And the three most influential players from that season were gone at that point (Gerrard, Suarez, Sterling). Sturridge was still there but massively hampered by injuries.

Do you see Ole overhauling the squad like that in the next two years? I don’t, because I can never see Ole buy a £10-35m player and make him world class, which is what you need if you want to replace an entire squad in three or four years. Ole can only buy very expensive players so his rebuild will never be done because by the time he’s bought 10 £50-£60m players the ones who are here now of adequate quality will have retired.

 

[Volumiza]

I just don't see how we're supposed to be moving forward with him right now.

I agree. I want him to get it right but aside from these almost random amazing performances I can’t see any sign of progression.

I was just saying don’t write him off just yet, there’s always a bit of hope.

 

[Majima]

Well he didn't get a right winger that he has been wanting for almost a year.

You don't need a £120m winger on top of the hundreds of millions already spent to not resemble the local dog & duck vs West Brom at home.

 

[AshRK]

You don't need a £120m winger on top of the hundreds of millions already spent to not resemble the local dog & duck vs West Brom at home.

I have already mentioned we were poor against West Brom and that Ole and the team should do better. Forget about Ole, my point was related to the fact that we had an underwhelming transfer window. Don't you think?

 

[Majima]

I have already mentioned we were poor against West Brom and that Ole and the team should do better. Forget about Ole, my point was related to the fact that we had an underwhelming transfer window. Don't you think?

At the time I thought we did. But that was because I was disappointed about Sancho. Diallo is regarded as a real coup, and Pellistri a low risk punt. Added to Cavani, Telles & Van de Beek who provide a lot of quality and experience, which we definitely needed. Now I think we had a not amazing, but still good window. Players which many managers would love to work with.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Facts we cannot optimise our squad any further than its present playing capacity. We can have Grealish, Sancho and someone to partner Maguire and we will still look disjointed, unable to build an attack, wasteful in possession, lack of creativity, relying on set pieces to score, lethargic energy levels, no cohesion. Individuals don't make a team the fact we are relying on Bruno doesn't speak highly about Ole at all. The club needs to be careful that under Solskjaer we don't start going backwards it's a big possibility if he cannot lift the teams performances.

This. We've made the best progress under him and that is what we need to keep doing. We have to make sure we keep going. We now have a team that any manager will be excited to work with. A top 4 team that should only get better. A team worth investing in. We can't risk regressing and losing this. We already know there are better coaches than Ole that suits the squad we have so if Ole keeps on underperforming then he has to go

 

[AshRK]

At the time I thought we did. But that was because I was disappointed about Sancho. Diallo is regarded as a real coup, and Pellistri a low risk punt. Added to Cavani, Telles & Van de Beek who provide a lot of quality and experience, which we definitely needed. Now I think we had a not amazing, but still good window. Players which many managers would love to work with.

I think we should have done better. We could have signed Cavani much earlier giving us a fresh player to start against Palace. I thought we were just naïve chasing Sancho for the whole summer. Pellistri and Diallo both are for the future if you ask me. Again all of this doesn't give an excuse to Ole and the team for sitting on 8th or 9th but we could have planned the summer transfer in a better way.

 

[Majima]

I agree. I want him to get it right but aside from these almost random amazing performances I can’t see any sign of progression.

I was just saying don’t write him off just yet, there’s always a bit of hope.

I know what you mean. The players are still with him at the minute, so however unlikely it may be, I can't deny that he still has that chance.

 

[Slysi17]

Second most expensive squad doesn't equate to second best. There's £100m plus in the likes of Jones, Rojo, Bailly, Matic, Mata. Worth about £20m between them in reality, and less said about £90m Pogba the better.

Transfermarkt squad valuations (independent, not my pessimistic opinion) puts us 4th in the PL. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/spieler-statistik/wertvollstemannschaften/marktwertetop

Well you just ruined your argument about not expecting top four. If we have the 4th most expensive squad in the league, we should be getting 4th. Sick of some fans lowering expectations.

 

[SaboTaj]

Fair enough with some opinions but this totally takes the award for dumbess post yet


Hard to get proper discussion when you got load of people writing this sort of bile.


What the hell happened to our Fans, seeing it everywhere,

In retrospect it probably was a dumbass post. But some of our performances this season have been hard to digest.

 

[Volumiza]

I can't deny that he still has that chance.

That’s the spirit matey

 

[Leftback99]

Well you just ruined your argument about not expecting top four. If we have the 4th most expensive squad in the league, we should be getting 4th. Sick of some fans lowering expectations.

I haven't ruined anything. I'm welcome to my own opinion on how good the squad is to judge where where I think we'll finish (plus a 7 point deficit on Spurs).

 

[united for life]

The forever rebuilding talk is an excuse to justify incompetence. And you've fallen for it.

Yes I have written him off. LVG lasted 103 matches, Jose 144. After 2 years and 100+ matches now in charge himself, we're supposed to be seeing more beyond steadying the ship. We're supposed to be seeing the results of the managers work by now. He's been backed and has a competitive squad. This was the season where there's no more excuses for Ole.

Yet you suggest he should get a free pass until December/January?

they didn’t back him this summer! These signings aren’t what he wanted. He did really well last year with a very thin squad. Should’ve invested better in the summer to build on that.

also, what do you want? Sack Ole? Higher a new manager, give him 100 games, not win the league, sack him, repeat?

by the way, in the league, we have 1 game in hand, if we win, we’ll be 5th 4 points behind the league leaders. People should stop acting like we are getting relegated. We are also top of the table in the champions league. Calm down

 

[Web of Bissaka]

"I’ve said that a few times that the performances will always be the deciding factor for if you play or not. I think every position that you play for Man United it’s your duty, or your responsibility, to make me and the coaches happy so there’s a bigger chance that you can play next time."

Unless if you're Lingard, Smalling (no chances given) and Romero.

But arguably Lingard likely made him and the coaches so very happy to get those high number of games.

 

[90 + 5min]

And the three most influential players from that season were gone at that point (Gerrard, Suarez, Sterling). Sturridge was still there but massively hampered by injuries.

Do you see Ole overhauling the squad like that in the next two years? I don’t, because I can never see Ole buy a £10-35m player and make him world class, which is what you need if you want to replace an entire squad in three or four years. Ole can only buy very expensive players so his rebuild will never be done because by the time he’s bought 10 £50-£60m players the ones who are here now of adequate quality will have retired.

Who are those players? Maybe Mane that cost around £30m and Robertson £10m. But who else did he make world class that was low cost?

He has built a team that has made some players world class. But most important. He has built a team that is working very, very good together. He has also bought couple of players for more then £40m to fit into system. Allison, VanDijk, Keita, Fahinho, Jota, Salah.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Well he didn't get a right winger that he has been wanting for almost a year. And we can be ole in, ole out but as the fan of this club the transfer window was underwhelming and a missed opportunity to close the gap with Liverpool and city. In fact we have let chelsea strengthen more and go ahead of us.

Aren't James, Pellestri and Diallo right wingers? Thats about 70M between the three of them.

I agree we missed the opportunity to close the gap but Ole signings haven't been great and there seem to be a common agreement between Ole Ins that he's been nothing short of a success with his signings when in fact we only got more value for the money we paid for Bruno, any other than that we overpaid. Excepting this summer signings which is to early to tell.

 

[VP89]

I have already mentioned we were poor against West Brom and that Ole and the team should do better. Forget about Ole, my point was related to the fact that we had an underwhelming transfer window. Don't you think?

We were poor against West Brom, Brighton, Bashakshehir, Tottenham and Arsenal. I thought we were quite poor against Chelsea too, in fact.

The transfer window for me was underwhelming because we were in a Sancho friendly, but he has improved options in midfield, up top and now also at left back. It's not like he hasn't strengthened in some key areas.

 

[SAFMUTD]

How about until he has failed at the very least? We're 5 points off top 4 with a game in hand. And we started the season under worse circumstances(in terms of fitness) than every team bar City, who also are behind us.

I'm all for sacking managers who don't deliver after a certain amount of time, but Ole did well enough in his first full season and it's only been 8 games in this one.

I think there's a clear difference in expectations between yours and a lot of posters including mine.

2 years seems already like a "certain amount of time".

Fitness is just a lame excuse, results but specially performance wise we've been nothing short of shit. If we were seeing some sort of indication of improvement even if not reflected of results but reflected on performances I agree we should give time, but we are not improving at all. 2 freaking years and we still don't have attacking patterns.

Giving Ole time is just wasting it, we may enter another purple patch but we all know we won't sustain it. Ultimately we will go back to the same dull football because no team can sustain consistent good performances based just on individual brillance. You need a developed system and patterns which Ole has proved to be unable to implement.

If Ole didn't had the history he has as a player theres no way he would be supported, its stupid to romanticize him and just expect things to get better because "he loves the club".

 

[Majima]

they didn’t back him this summer! These signings aren’t what he wanted. He did really well last year with a very thin squad. Should’ve invested better in the summer to build on that.

also, what do you want? Sack Ole? Higher a new manager, give him 100 games, not win the league, sack him, repeat?

by the way, in the league, we have 1 game in hand, if we win, we’ll be 5th 4 points behind the league leaders. People should stop acting like we are getting relegated. We are also top of the table in the champions league. Calm down

Thanks for the straw man.

He's only had £190m in 2 years on top of the existing squad, how can he possibly be expected to achieve anything with that?

We were on course for our worst points total in history for the majority of the season, and got bailed out by the covid delay, Bruno and Leicester's capitulation. We were in the top 4 for one whole week of the season, the end. I'm glad we made it, but your definition of 'really well' is different to mine it seems.

If there was evidence that we were progressing, then I would be willing to be more patient and give him more time, but there's not. You don't give time for times sake. You earn it.

If the next manager is showing no signs of progression after 2 years and hundreds of millions, then yes you get rid of him off too, until someone eventually gets it right.

 

[Wilt]

I think there's a clear difference in expectations between yours and a lot of posters including mine.

2 years seems already like a "certain amount of time".

Fitness is just a lame excuse, results but specially performance wise we've been nothing short of shit. If we were seeing some sort of indication of improvement even if not reflected of results but reflected on performances I agree we should give time, but we are not improving at all. 2 freaking years and we still don't have attacking patterns.

Giving Ole time is just wasting it, we may enter another purple patch but we all know we won't sustain it. Ultimately we will go back to the same dull football because no team can sustain consistent good performances based just on individual brillance. You need a developed system and patterns which Ole has proved to be unable to implement.

If Ole didn't had the history he has as a player theres no way he would be supported, its stupid to romanticize him and just expect things to get better because "he loves the club".

Agreed

It’s now got to the stage where every game has Ole hanging on by his fingernails. People need to separate OGS the player and OGS the manager, he needs to go and the quicker the better.

 

[Volumiza]

there seem to be a common agreement between Ole Ins that he's been nothing short of a success with his signings when in fact we only got more value for the money we paid for Bruno, any other than that we overpaid. Excepting this summer signings which is to early to tell.

I wouldn’t say I’m an ‘Ole in’ but of all the things I’m dissatisfied about currently Ole’s signings aren’t one of them. He’s bought better than anyone post Fergie and I would even argue he’s bought better than Fergie did in his last few years.

 

[lex talionis]

I've been a Ole Remainer, but my patience is wearing very thin. We're barely winning games, and often losing them, to opponents we should be smashing. Our performances, with some exceptions, have been disgraceful. And I'm not even talking about the defeat to Spurs, which happens once in a while to even the clubs. I'm talking about the defeats to Palace and Arsenal and now barely scraping past West Brom.

What we saw against West Brom was beyond belief. We needed a pk, and an embarrassing VAR reversal (West Brom deserved a pk) to save our skin against a side that's almost 100% sure to be relegated this season.

A fair amount of responsibility is down to the players, of course, and Martial leads the list of underperformers, but it's the job of the manager to bring out the the best in the players that he has -- and there is no Ole apologist who will argue that Ole has brought out the best in the squad that he has.

All that said, the time for the sack is not right now. But if nothing materially changes through the end of the season the case for him coming back next season is nonexistent.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

what do you want? Sack Ole? Higher a new manager, give him 100 games, not win the league, sack him, repeat?

Sacking managers until you get one competent manager that win you the league seems to be working with other top teams eg. Chelsea, Pool and City.

Were they satisfied with the many managers who helped them get as high as top 4 or even 2nd places?
Nope. Arsenal is also showing sign of adapting this approach, maybe.

Could it be Pool is more patient with Klopp because they notice the good work he's doing behind the scene along with on pitch football actually getting praises from their fans and general football fans alike, and then clear improvements on the pitch came soon after? Many of their problems of seasons before they managed to solved it in later seasons isn't it.

Same thing with Spurs too I suppose, until Poch can no longer improve them further. They have been climbing higher and higher over the many seasons. I still remember they're battling for the sweet 4th place and battle for top 6 before that.

Interestingly I notice only United fans among the top clubs is reluctant to replace the managers quickly because of some (United way BS or using Klopp case study as a comparison) and there are clear signs of more and more United fans accepting just top 4 than you know... trying to win the damn thing.

Since when is top 3 or rather the 3rd best team good?
Since when is "we're not going to be relegated" good?
Since when is "we're good at beating top teams" but "terrible getting the pts vs majority of the teams" good?

Ole's reign so far is more on to... uhh just some results based? Which isn't really that good but spin the stats all you want to show "improvements". The football remains inconsistent and hell even getting more and more boring. Many players are also getting worse (so suddenly Ole is no longer good in improving players?), and plenty of problems of seasons before still remains in the 3rd season and ongoing. More and more excuses are also being commented by both manager and players... and of course by fans who still believe.

It's just wishful thinking by the fans to want Ole to turn up like Klopp. Embarassing how low the standards have fallen and still hoping Ole will be the savior.

 

[Majima]

I wouldn’t say I’m an ‘Ole in’ but of all the things I’m dissatisfied about currently Ole’s signings aren’t one of them. He’s bought better than anyone post Fergie and I would even argue he’s bought better than Fergie did in his last few years.

Every manager since SAF, we've been left with the next manager expected to have to tear it all down and start again. He's the first one where we don't need a huge overhaul after him. The next manager will find a very talented young squad to work with. I believe we will be a much more attractive destination for any talented manager now.

 

[rotherham_red]

Not if they win.

Again goal difference, we'd need to score 6 goals if they lost today.

Maybe if Liverpool lose to Brighton on the Saturday and Chelsea / Tottenham lose will be hard though as they play each other..

Funny how both your predictions turned to be a pile of stinking horse manure, isn't it?

 

[Volumiza]

Every manager since SAF, we've been left with the next manager expected to have to tear it all down and start again. He's the first one where we don't need a huge overhaul after him. The next manager will find a very talented young squad to work with. I believe we will be a much more attractive destination for any talented manager now.

Yep. In this respect Ole has done a fantastic job. He’s bought well.

 

[432JuanMata]

Yep. In this respect Ole has done a fantastic job. He’s bought well.

Has he though ? We spend 80m on Maguire who has been a letdown, James is woeful and not good enough to be here. There is question marks over AWB and he cost 50m. The only success is Bruno

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Thanks for the straw man.

He's only had £190m in 2 years on top of the existing squad, how can he possibly be expected to achieve anything with that?

We were on course for our worst points total in history for the majority of the season, and got bailed out by the covid delay, Bruno and Leicester's capitulation. We were in the top 4 for one whole week of the season, the end. I'm glad we made it, but your definition of 'really well' is different to mine it seems.

If there was evidence that we were progressing, then I would be willing to be more patient and give him more time, but there's not. You don't give time for times sake. You earn it.

If the next manager is showing no signs of progression after 2 years and hundreds of millions, then yes you get rid of him off too, until someone eventually gets it right.

He's had 300m in 2 years.

 

[soapythecat]

Yep. In this respect Ole has done a fantastic job. He’s bought well.

Totally disagree.
Maguire has limited the way we play. Lacks pace.
AWB can defend but feels feint when he passes the half way line.
Dan James is utter garbage and one dimensional for which he’s not utilised correctly.
VdB is a great player but did we need him? Clearly not given how he’s not starting. Why not spend that money on a RW or CM?
Telles and Cavani look promising though.
I’d suggest the squad is more unbalanced now. He’s not bought well.

 

[hobbers]

Yep. In this respect Ole has done a fantastic job. He’s bought well.

He most certainly has not.

 

[Plymouth Red]

When we bought these players, their arrivals were generally well-received here. Even though we couldn’t necessarily see a need for VDB, for example, his potential was acknowledge. James was also seen as one for the future and initially that looked accurate.

What seems to happen is that the players quickly lose confidence, stop progressing and no longer display the attributes that encouraged us to buy them in the first place.

This must be down to how they are managed and coached.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

When we bought these players, their arrivals were generally well-received here. Even though we couldn’t necessarily see a need for VDB, for example, his potential was acknowledge. James was also seen as one for the future and initially that looked accurate.

What seems to happen is that the players quickly lose confidence, stop progressing and no longer display the attributes that encouraged us to buy them in the first place.

This must be down to how they are managed and coached.

Agree fully. Although I also say we have not bought what we have most needed for years. A right winger with a left foot ideally.

 

[Tom Cato]

Was that free flowing football? RB fecking Leipzig dominated most of the game, but capitulated and made stupid mistakes near the end. Context. Apparently.

Leipzig had a grand total of 2 shots on goal and 7 outside.

By comparison we had 8 Shots on goal, and that is excluing the 5 goals we scored.

Even possession. Most metrics besides shooting was quite comparable all game.

What you can take from that is that we defended well, and Leipzig did not.

As for hills to pick a fight on, this might be one of the worse ones to pick this season.

I actually watched the game. Weird how you don't seem to think utilizing your entire squad is part of a good gameplan.

Like,it's the one-way narratives that really gets to me. Like people complaining that we "only beat West Brom 1-0 at home."

Yeah ok, but the team created more than enough chances to score. And when both Martial and Rashford manage to lose chances even I can score on, since I have legs, then what can you actually do? There's no amount of glorified system that is going to teach your forward who scored 20 last season, to put the ball behind the goaltender from 3 metres out.

With a league that's more than wide open, and frankly a better season start than last season (both result and point wise we're ahead of 19/20), it's time to sit down and try to support the club a bit.