Would you take Conte at United?

[stevoc]

I wasn't doing a like for like comparison man.

Yeah those players were in the books but they got extentions under Ole, in the case of matic in a key position which we haven't addressed for ages.

I specified the similarities, based on earlier comments. So the "struggles in the CL" well so did SAF. Yeah he was on a couple but he himself said he didn't have in enough with the players he had and it was something he tried to change.

Similarly SAF spent big in key positions, keane, Rio, rancho hen he needed to.

Let's be honest SAF was special and the way things are unlikely to be copied. So no one is the same as him.

Fair enough mate I just thought it was a strange comparison. If the similarities are they both had some ''struggles'' in Europe (SAF significantly less so) and both spent big on some players. I mean you've just described every experienced manager at the top level of the game, well ever. It's also worth mentioning that Ferguson is the joint most successful manager in Uefa/European football history with 7 trophies. Being one of only 5 managers to win 4 or more major European competitions. So SAF's European struggles weren't exactly the same as Conte's.

As for the age profile of the squad, it's significantly younger now than when Solskjaer took over. Pretty sure it has one of the youngest average ages in the League.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

People are tripping, I swear.

We don't play the United Way under Ole, even though his whole schtick was about making that happen.
Ole is almost as conservative as Mourinho, anyhow.
So what is it that we're apparently sacrificing by entertaining Conte? What swashbuckling offensive football are we compromising on here?

Conte at his most defensive is still a more progressive manager than Ole is, despite the United Way rhetoric.

This./

Empty platitudes.

 

[stevoc]

Same here. It all feels a-bit like 'oh he's available and better than Ole, so let's get him'. For me, that's the kind of short term planning that has us where we are.

I think we should give Ole the season, but have a proper contingency plan in place to get rid, if we don't challenge for the PL and look respectable in the CL. It's not looking promising so far, so chances are, this will be his last season. We really, really need to make sure our next appointment is the correct one, and a modern, progressive manager is highly desirable. If we feck up yet another managerial appointment, I honestly have no idea where it'll leave us. There should already be behind the scenes work going on in this regard. But do I trust us to be making logical, proactive steps like that? feck no

Indeed I reckon he would be a horrible appointment who would undo the good work that has been done over the last few years. Solskjaer might not be the man to take this squad forward but if someone else came in it would have to be someone who could work with this squad. Not another Van Gaal who would want to rebuild it again.

Already imagining what we'd look like in his 352 formation.

Me too, it would be horrible.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

What if the players in the academy just aren’t good enough though? I mean the cream rises to the top right? Shouldn’t we only be interested in academy players who show world class potential? Rather than obsessing over it the way our fans do? Chelsea don’t prioritise promoting players from the academy yet Mason Mount & Reece James start for them, John Terry is a legend for them. Players who are good, but not quite good enough, like Abraham, Tomori are sold for big fees. I don’t see what’s wrong with this? Chelsea would’ve sold players like McTominay, Tuanzebe & Williams by now for about £80m combined, and used the money to make the squad better. Instead one starts who clearly isn’t good enough, while the other 2 are on loan & will either be sold for far less than we could’ve got at one point, or be released. We’re not ruthless enough with academy players.

Exactly.

The best, ala Greenwood will always excel. The future of Manchester United is not dependent on McTominays two good games a season against Leeds.

And yet it is. Our most recent memory of "good times" is still that of Sir Alex, and therefore that is what most fans are looking for. Becoming Chelsea, who replaces managers every couple years and doesn't care for growing youth through academy, is not us. If we became such club, it would be a huge departure from traditions. Not a trivial move.

Speaking of traditions would you not say sir Alex instilled a tradition of winning/competing regardless of the competition?

It’s all good saying Chelsea sack managers every few seasons because yes Chelsea have a number of faults but just because you don’t want to be like Chelsea doesn’t mean you should stick with poor managers for longer than necessary.

To simply say all Chelsea do is sack managers every so often ignores the fact they win a fair bit while doing so; Sir Alex isn’t coming back ladies & gentlemen - time to move with the times.

 

[KingCavani]

Ronaldo - Greenwood

Telles - Pogba - Bruno - Dalot
Matic
Shaw - Varane - Maguire
​

It's alright except for a lack of cover for Matic and the wing backs being a bit meh (but arguably could prosper in this set up).

Sign Ndidi for CDM and Adama for the wing back spot and we’re set.

 

[KingCavani]

I don't see anyone sticking their nose up at Pep?

Pep has never overachieved like Conte.

He would never come to United because it would be challenging.

 

[redMundo]

No way.
Defensive football with formations I don’t like.
He’s a winner and a very very good tactician but always seems to cause trouble and have a meltdown wherever he is (basically modern day Mourinho).

Also a weirdo with a creepy doll head.

Ten Hag is the one for me 100%

 

[bond19821982]

Ronaldo - Greenwood

Telles - Pogba - Bruno - Dalot
Matic
Shaw - Varane - Maguire
​

It's alright except for a lack of cover for Matic and the wing backs being a bit meh (but arguably could prosper in this set up).

Eriksen couldn't get a game under him at Inter. What makes you think Bruno will get it ?

 

[Rocksy]

Eriksen couldn't get a game under him at Inter. What makes you think Bruno will get it ?

He got plenty of games for Inter after a difficult start. He really helped them out towards the end of the league-winning season. Anyway, how are Bruno and Eriksen even similar? They play in a nominally similar position but Eriksen is much more of a component, possession-focused player. I think Conte would like Bruno's mentality but would be less keen on him shooting all the time (and conceding possession). I've noticed it's a big problem for United. Way to many players try to take shots because of the lack of instruction. This means you're always giving the other team a physical and mental break. Ole seems to love it but most top coaches wouldn't stand for it.

 

[Trequarista10]

Eriksen couldn't get a game under him at Inter. What makes you think Bruno will get it ?

Why are they twins?

 

[NewGlory]

What if the players in the academy just aren’t good enough though? I mean the cream rises to the top right? Shouldn’t we only be interested in academy players who show world class potential? Rather than obsessing over it the way our fans do? Chelsea don’t prioritise promoting players from the academy yet Mason Mount & Reece James start for them, John Terry is a legend for them. Players who are good, but not quite good enough, like Abraham, Tomori are sold for big fees. I don’t see what’s wrong with this? Chelsea would’ve sold players like McTominay, Tuanzebe & Williams by now for about £80m combined, and used the money to make the squad better. Instead one starts who clearly isn’t good enough, while the other 2 are on loan & will either be sold for far less than we could’ve got at one point, or be released. We’re not ruthless enough with academy players.

I agree 100% that Tuanzebe and Williams will never be the level that SAF would play. To a lesser extent, probably true about McT as well.

SAF did prioritize academy, but he never plaid anybody who wasn't worthy, did he? Both statements (academy prioritized and quality demanded) can be true at the same time.

Sir Alex was the most ruthless manager EPL has ever seen. Sometimes maybe even too much so - he kicked out Beckham, got rid of Keane, both quite unceremoniously. While Ole fits SAF tradition in some ways, the areas he fails in – e.g. playing Fred and McT – feel incredibly anti-SAF. Honestly, I wonder if Sir Alex gives him this feedback. On one hand, considering how much he cares about United, he probably should, on the other Sir Alex probably has incredible respect for not interfering with a United manager, unless asked an opinion.

 

[Tee27]

Pep has never overachieved like Conte.

He would never come to United because it would be challenging.

Very true, Conte has taken sides who we’re not seen as outright favourites and made them league champions.

Pep on the other hand has taken over teams who already have the best squad in the league and spends a small countries GDP and still fails to win what the club really brought him in to win. (CL at Bayern and Man City)

 

[golden_blunder]

We don't know though. Pedri last season was a revelation for Barca, despite that he was only 18.

In general, I like using academy players in the positions we are weak. And we are weak in midfield and RB so I think if Ole was the young player's manager, those players would have had a role so far. Under LVG, they might have played a lot.

In the end, Ole is just the typical manager when it comes to using young players. Which is totally fine, but I do not know where the reputation comes that he plays a lot academy players.

Spain is a slower league with less physical requirements. It shouldn’t be used as a comparison to the PL when talking about developing young players.

tour expectations are so high, you will never be satisfied

when it comes to the PL, I think the only person that will be similar to him would be Klopp. The rest lag behind

 

[Bebestation]

I'd give it 6 months before one of Ronaldo or Bruno Fernandes has a fight with him and then either the manager or player leaves.

 

[Skills]

I'd take him on an 18 month deal, with the knowledge that we'll be moving onto someone else at the end of that. He's a fantastic manager, but is better in smaller doses.

 

[LoneStar]

Why do people keep harping on about success over the long term? No one can build a dynasty these days, we need to move on from that era.

Ideally, we would want a coach who can play attacking football and win trophies. But here's why I think we need to prioritise the short term over long term for now -

1. Our current squad is up there with some of the best in the world. We will have 1/2 seasons of Ronaldo at his (relative) peak. This season, we will have Pogba, Ronaldo and Cavani (and it's not s guarantee that the latter two wouldnbe here next season). So we need to win something NOW.
2. There is a massive pressure on the club to win something big now. We haven't won a PL title or a CL in almost a decade now, and we risk losing the next generation of players if we don't win things. We will undoubtedly still be a big club, but the generational talents, or even the best English players might not prefer us because they have a better chance of winning elsewhere.
3. Look at clubs like Chelsea and Real Madrid, which have had good success in the last decade. They prioritise winning something each season, and are ruthless if the manager doesn't deliver. The sort of expectation that RM has drives the players and the coaches to do their best.

Im not saying Conte is the ideal manager. But who else can come in and help us to win something right now? Maybe Zidane? I really can't think of anyone else.

 

[Bestietom]

Yes.

 

[RedStarUnited]

People said the same about Mourinho.

Not really, by the time Jose came to us he had just recently failed at Chelsea. Conte just won the title against the odds in Italy a few months ago.

 

[MayfieldsFinest]

Not a hope. It would be complete short-termism. I do believe he is a very good manager but his temperament means he'll throw his toys out of the pram too quickly.

Ten Haag would be my shout. If not for his City connection Mancini would probably be a good shout. In saying that OGS deserves the season at least.

 

[Stacks]

No way.
Defensive football with formations I don’t like.
He’s a winner and a very very good tactician but always seems to cause trouble and have a meltdown wherever he is (basically modern day Mourinho).

Also a weirdo with a creepy doll head.

Ten Hag is the one for me 100%

Ole plays 2 holding midfielders

 

[Ayoba]

Some of the arguments are hilarious, "do you want conte to come in for a few years, win something, then leaves the squad in disarray?!?"

YES!!! YES 100 feckING PERCENT I want him here so we can win something as opposed to have a harmonious squad but win the square root of feck all in 3 years. Why is this even up for debate??

 

[MayfieldsFinest]

Some of the arguments are hilarious, "do you want conte to come in for a few years, win something, then leaves the squad in disarray?!?"

YES!!! YES 100 feckING PERCENT I want him here so we can win something as opposed to have a harmonious squad but win the square root of feck all in 3 years. Why is this even up for debate??

Because Van Gaal won an FA cup, Mourinho won a Uefa Cup and League cup and both completely fecked the squad up. Ole has rooted out a lot of the dead wood. Bought well and put together a good squad. Ole may well be (and unfortunately I dont think he is) the man to take United to the next level but neither is Conte.

 

[JustAGuest]

Some of the arguments are hilarious, "do you want conte to come in for a few years, win something, then leaves the squad in disarray?!?"

YES!!! YES 100 feckING PERCENT I want him here so we can win something as opposed to have a harmonious squad but win the square root of feck all in 3 years. Why is this even up for debate??

There is no guarantee he would win any major trophy. If appointing him means the squad will be left in a worse state when he leaves we should look at other alternatives.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Why no mid point in the poll? I demand a mid point!

e) boue

 

[Flytan]

There is no guarantee he would win any major trophy. If appointing him means the squad will be left in a worse state when he leaves we should look at other alternatives.

Does he really leave squads in bad states though? Juve kept winning, Chelsea were fine, a bad year but that's it, and Inter had to sell everyone because their owners can't put money into the club.

 

[nainaisson]

Ole plays 2 holding midfielders

Playing with two central midfielders doesn't necessarily mean they're both playing as 6s. Fred and McTominay are closer to box-to-box midfielders than holding midfielders. Their problem isn't that they stay parked in front of the back four and don't help in attack. Their problem is that they aren't very good.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Although tempting to go after the most successful available manager, I would not like to have him manage the club. 352 defensive football is not my cup o tea. There's other "progressive" managers out there which i'd rather take a shot with.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Does he really leave squads in bad states though? Juve kept winning, Chelsea were fine, a bad year but that's it, and Inter had to sell everyone because their owners can't put money into the club.

Chelsea signed a lot of junk while he was there - Drinkwater, Emerson, Barkley, Bakayoko - but he didn't really have a say in those - the manager rarely does there - so it's not something to hold against him. He did sign a bunch of journeyman types at Inter, and he took Young and Sanchez off our hands which is cause for thank-you note if anything - but he also got them to invest in proper quality.

People saying things like "3-5-2 defensive football" just don't know what they're talking about, to be quite honest. Watch the football Inter played on their way to scoring 89 league goals last season, with Hakimi in particular playing essentially as a winger, and tell me how it was in any way "defensive" without referring to the numbers in the formation.

 

[VP89]

Ole plays 2 holding midfielders

And we are debating changing him for a reason.

 

[Bebestation]

He signed Ashley Young and Alexis Sanchez off us didn't he?

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

He signed Ashley Young and Alexis Sanchez off us didn't he?

Yes, but he won the league so, it’s a catch 22.

His transfer business looks pretty horrible though, it is off putting. He signed Morata, Bakayoko & Drinkwater for big fees at Chelsea. The latter two are still inexplicably at the club.

 

[YeahYeah]

Its a no brainer.

He is the only proven winner available, dont think Zidane is available. That already narrows the list down to 1.

Also we need to think short term. We have Ronaldo for another few years, we do need to give it all to win now. The team is built nicely, there wont be a rebuild, its time to win. The arguments against short term thinking make no sense now. We should be in win now mode.

Also no one mentions that Pogba thrived under Conte. Conte unlocked him. Thats kinda huge for us, Conte would know how to use him.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Another big project getting players and selling players and making them play into a 3-5-2. I think we ll be in another trouble.
I think Conte is too confrontational. And that will show up sooner or later.

We did that with Jose. We knew things will go south and when it does he becomes an a**hole and yet, people here were surprised he became like that for some reason.

 

[redshaw]

I wouldn't say never. I do rate him as a coach so if things turn sour for Ole and other options aren't available he would be up there in the reckoning.

I think Ole will turn it around and they'll be more ups and downs for other teams. I will say with players like Ronaldo, Varane and the spending so far, if we slump like we did in Ole's first full season he'll be gone, he won't be afforded the same time and someone like Conte might be brought in quickly. I'd like to see us go for Zidane or maybe Ten Hag.

 

[YeahYeah]

Another big project getting players and selling players and making them play into a 3-5-2. I think we ll be in another trouble.
I think Conte is too confrontational. And that will show up sooner or later.

We did that with Jose. We knew things will go south and when it does he becomes an a**hole and yet, people here were surprised he became like that for some reason.

Too confrontational can easily also be described as dedicated, passionate, perfectionist etc.
Are you saying that Ole who is a clueless PE teacher but an ultimate politically correct company man is a better alternative?

Plus Conte already worked with Pogba, got the best out of him. We know how Mourinho and Pogba ended up. So no I wouldnt say theyre the same, not even close.

But again, your choice is confrontational as you put it but a proven winner or Ole who is a yes man conformist but clueless.
Not a difficult choice to make. I know which one makes it more likely we win and we absolutely must win both PL and CL this year. Anything else is a failure now.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Too confrontational can easily also be described as dedicated, passionate, perfectionist etc.
Are you saying that Ole who is a clueless PE teacher but an ultimate politically correct company man is a better alternative?

Plus Conte already worked with Pogba, got the best out of him. We know how Mourinho and Pogba ended up. So no I wouldnt say theyre the same, not even close.

But again, your choice is confrontational as you put it but a proven winner or Ole who is a yes man conformist but clueless.
Not a difficult choice to make. I know which one makes it more likely we win and we absolutely must win both PL and CL this year. Anything else is a failure now.

I am not viewing this question as who is better Ole or Conte? That one is obvious.
I am looking if Conte is the next step after we fire Ole. I am not so sure that the players we spent money on will look good or be will be happy to play in a 3-5-2 system. A complete overhaul will be tough and will take another big investment and lots of planning over multipel windows, I feel. And given Conte's general nature/demenaour, I don't think he will be ready to play the long waiting game.

 

[LuckyScout78]

I took a closer look of this man few/3 weeks earlier. I checked how he was a player. His mentality as a player. And to be honest. I might heard his name as player before. But i dont remember anything about him as a player. And since that. United poor results came and this thread and post came up again. I think i have come to my conclusion. That is man will help and been able to lead United to win premier league.

So i will ask myself and make a question why Antonio Conte will be able to lead United to premier leauge victory? Here are reasons why:

+ The first and most important reason is. You get to know how to build a team that will be able to win top 4 league in Europe. He won premier league with Chelsea and Inter.

First i take Chelsea as example. How he build a winning team.
On 4 April 2016, it was confirmed Conte had signed a three-year contract, which would keep him at the club until 2019, and would officially become the new first-team head coach of English side Chelsea from the 2016–17 season.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Conte

Conte was the Chelsea manager that bought Kante. Conte bought Kante. A match in heaven and it rhymes. So Tuchel so be thankful for his success with Chelsea. Because of Conte knew he need Kante to win premier league. So 3 years months after his appointment Kante became Chelsea player, 16 July 2016.

On 16 July 2016, Kanté signed a five-year deal with Chelsea who reportedly paid £32 million in transfer fees.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N'Golo_Kanté

+ Second factor and reason. This man was a true leader and captain as player and manager. From been captain for Juventus and leading clubs like Chelsea and Inter. Its where i take closer look of him on youtube. To find and see if he has the winning mentality as a player. The highest level of guts/winning mentality, determination and ball skills. And as a central midfield player. He definitely had really high football skills. He did scored some beautiful and spectacular goals. Not only easy goals.
So beside his winning and leadership mentality. He definitely how to handle the ball. This video will show his winning mentality, engine/drive and guts as a player. And still keep his passion, energy and drive/hunger as manager to this day.
In other words. He knows what it need and demand as a top level football player. He use to reach the ball first. In goals scoring situation and others.



+ 3. I think he will get the best out of his players and squad. Look at Lukaku and Young. Even Young became regular and key left full back for Inter and did had many goals and assists. Same as Lukaku.
And since with this factor is about how to get the best out of your players. I think and believe Conte is a good motivator. He will spread his energy, hard work, passion and winning mentality to his players.
I think he is still hunger as manager and i think he will transfers it his players.
And the last thing about this factor. As a motivator. I prefer like Sir Alex, Pep, Klopp and Tuchel that you stand most time on the sideline to motivator and cheer up your players when they have done something really good. Sometime players need that close up motivator. Not only sit on the stand most of the time.

+ 4. As manager for one of the biggest club in the world. United as club will always keep theirs best players. And i think it will keep him longer at United and previus club like Inter. Undestandable due to economics problem had to sell theirs best players like Lukaku and Hakimi. Not a chance a club like United will sell one of the best right back in Hakimi. I think that was the reason Conte left Inter. Disagreement with Inter board.
Sum up this reason. He will keep the best players at the club.

+ 5. Do he has players that will help United to win premier league?United current squad good enough to win premier league in the future?
The answer is yes. With few more positions to strength. And it is here i think will be the different between Ole and Conte. I have more confidence in Conte than Ole. And i think its higher chance Conte will be able to help United to win premier league than Ole.
I think and believe Ole hasnt get the best out of his players and squad yet. And Ole still and not confidence to take control and dominate the game. Like at home against Villa. Set up to DM in Fred and McTom for counting attack. It say a lot. One DM is enough, the other cm has to be really reallly good with the ball and be really offensive. Again Southampton, Leeds, City, Liverpool and Chelsea is understandable. But Villa cm are not super aggresive like the Saints and believe if you put Pogba as nr.8 with McTom and in with quick and skillful Sancho as left winger for counting attack and helping the attack. Would make more trouble for Villa. 6 defensive players at home against Villa. Then your purpose are not to dominate, dictate and control the ball and game.

It is where i think will be the different between Conte and Ole. I think, believe and Conte will get more out of United players. Even the quality of the players at United here are really high. But Ole has a really central midfield problem he has to solve. But Ole is a safe manager and person. He goes with 2DM in Fred and McTom against most of the teams.

So to sum up and conclusion. I think, believe and confince Conte has what it needs to lead and help United to win premier league in the future. And if he can keep his best players. I think he will stay longer than 2-3 years. You never know and never say never. Like Conte will never stay more than 3 years at United.
He was a true leader and captain as player and manager. And a steady, consistent and winning big ship. Need a ture captain that can lead one of the biggest ship in the world.
And he gets those important factor and reasons:

+ Know how to build a winning team
+ A winner. A true leader and captain. A hard working and always give your best mentality.
+ A top motivator and a manager that will spread his passion, guts and winning mentality to his players.
+ At United he will keep the best players
+ The quality of the players are there. The rest to improve and strenght. I think Conte will find out and solve it. Same tips to Ole and Conte. Since Ole keep and trust Fred and McTom most of the time as cm duo. It is here the place and position United can strenght most and maybe the reason Ole will not win the premier league or ch.league in the future. A top, complete and world class and super offensive and creative nr.8 is need and demand. Every top clubs needs a top world class nr.8 as most as they need a world class nr.6. A Makele or Kante like Conte knew it. Why Conte brought and bought Kante to Chelsea. Conte knew and know how to build a winning team.

And last of all. The invisible factor which is luck & and things go your team ways. Conte just won Serie A with Inter last year. And you need more than experiences, skills and know how to do it. You need a lot of luck and things go your team way factor to win and achieve big things. I didnt watches all Inter game last season. But i believe there has been so games where Inter had the margin and luck on their sides. To lead them to Serie A trophy.

Conte is a winner and are on the same level with Pep, Klopp, Tuchel as manager. Same top guts, energy, passion, hunger and motivation. My best recommendation. If Manchester United want a new manager. So yes. I will definitely vote for Conte and take him as United manager. After a closer look and research of him.

 

[Lynty]

Not for me. Fantastic tactician but I don't think I can ever get behind a team who plays 5 defenders.

Plus it would take another rebuild to accommodate his style:


------------------------------- Ronaldo -------- Greenwood -------------------------

Shaw ---------- McTominay ------- Fred ------ VdB --------- Dalot

---------------------- Maguire ----------- Varane -------- Lindelof ----------------

• If we change managers mid season, or we enter next season under uncertainty, Pogba is 100% leaving (if he isn't committed to leave already).
• Either Bruno reinvents himself to suits Conte or he plays as a shadow striker.
• We need 3 midfielders (preferably starters unless we want to rely on the 3 amigos).
• As much as I love AWB, he can't play in this formation.
• Sancho is £70m wasted.
• We still need a striker to replace Ronaldo/Cavani as we can't reply on Rashford/Greenwood in a 2 striker formation
• And believe it or not, we likely have to retain Bailly and Tuanzebe for depth.

We're talking £200m at least without player sales. And we need to trust a man who spent the same amount of Chelsea cash on:

• Morata
• Bakayoko
• Drinkwater
• Rudiger
• Zappacosta

Even his Inter transfers were bizarre and only worked because the league was sedentary and he obviously wasn't building for the future.

• Young
• Darmian
• Sanchez
• Erikson
• Vidal
• Kolorov
• Godin
• Lukaku

As I said, great coach but the time and team isn't right for him here.


I'd personally love to see Bielsa at a club with top players. But that's more of a morbid curiosity, as it likely would end in disaster. Ole will get the season regardless (unless we implode) and i'm glad that we're not quick to sack managers.

 

[Nicoseth]

Definitely not. The guy wins but at what cost? Don't like his style of play or his style of player that he brings to his clubs.

 

[reelworld]

Those who said no to Conte are crazy.