The best midfielder to ever play in the PL for me. Criminal how infrequently he is mentioned. Without doubt, for me, no midfielder has ever gotten close to his best at City.
Yaya Toure...
- Thread starter Rozay
- Start date
General question. Who's the better midfielder on form - Pogba or Toure
At their very best, not much in it, but I’d have to go Toure for now. As I said, I think he’s the PL’s best ever midfielder.
The PL that sky invented in 1992 with football? Or all top flight football in England?
I think that in all of his attributes you'd be able to find another PL midfielder who was better than him at them but you won't find another midfielder that was as well rounded as him.
Pogba has a better all round game but that season where Toure played behind the striker he was at an insane level. He was a combination of a bull in a china shop and a russian ballet dancer
Once he got a bit older and lost his stamina he suffered and many people remember him as being sulky/birthday cake issues but Aguero and Toure were the only City players I genuinely feared.
So glad to know that I am not the only one with this opinion.
I said it again, his penalty kicks were perfect (100% CR), but he seemed never be the main taker bar one or two seasons, so was his freekicks (lack of ambition?).
His agent gave a fuss about he only got a cake (for his birthday), while Anzhi owner gave Eto'o a Bughatti (as comparison). People will remember this forever (but with different story).
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Ever? I wouldn't have him over Scholes, Keane or Vieira for starters.
Pogba is still yet to have a stand out season like Toure in 13/14.
Possibly.
I'd sooner build a team around David Silva though.
I'd sooner build a team around David Silva though.
Touré’s 2013/14 season was phenomenal but I think longevity and sheer consistency edges it for both David Silva and De Bruyne in terms of City’s best-ever Premier League midfielders.
As for the Premier League’s greatest midfielder, I think Keane, Vieira, Lampard, Scholes and Gerrard have more of a claim to the title than Touré has, not to mention the two aforementioned City players.
As for the Premier League’s greatest midfielder, I think Keane, Vieira, Lampard, Scholes and Gerrard have more of a claim to the title than Touré has, not to mention the two aforementioned City players.
I just don't think that's true and your opinion is your opinion but ok...
None of those were ever as good as his best for me.
This. The things one has to read in a United forum.
Yaya was a very accomplished and complete footballer but lets not blow him up into something he is not.
Thought it was his birthday for a sec.
Toure was unplayable at his best.
He may lack some of the attributes of other great PL midfielders, but his physical attributes bring him right up on par with most of them. I think with a bit more drive he could've been the best but he seems to lack that final push to get his team to the highest of heights.
He may lack some of the attributes of other great PL midfielders, but his physical attributes bring him right up on par with most of them. I think with a bit more drive he could've been the best but he seems to lack that final push to get his team to the highest of heights.
Nah, not for me. Not in the same league as Lampard, Keane, Scholes, or Gerrard of yesteryear.
He played in the PL during it's worst quality phase after the peak in the late 00's. From early to late 2010's the EPL was well behind the La Liga in terms of overall quality of it's top teams. Bayern, Juventus were better than the best in the league at that point too.
Had technical quality, no doubt, and a great knack for getting in the box and scoring but outside of that he wasn't at par with the great midfielders of the 2000's. He was found out in multiple matches in Europe when closed down quickly and couldn't enforce himself when against a tactically strong team who closed his space and marked him well.
I very clearly remember how Bayern and Dortmund snuffed him out during his apparent peak. He was lucky to be playing in the EPL during a team when it's bigger clubs were on the slid, with many being run by tactical dinosaurs (Jose, Wenger, Moyes, Hogdson, Kenney) and it showed in not only the EPL's performances in the UCL but also City's own.
He played in the PL during it's worst quality phase after the peak in the late 00's. From early to late 2010's the EPL was well behind the La Liga in terms of overall quality of it's top teams. Bayern, Juventus were better than the best in the league at that point too.
Had technical quality, no doubt, and a great knack for getting in the box and scoring but outside of that he wasn't at par with the great midfielders of the 2000's. He was found out in multiple matches in Europe when closed down quickly and couldn't enforce himself when against a tactically strong team who closed his space and marked him well.
I very clearly remember how Bayern and Dortmund snuffed him out during his apparent peak. He was lucky to be playing in the EPL during a team when it's bigger clubs were on the slid, with many being run by tactical dinosaurs (Jose, Wenger, Moyes, Hogdson, Kenney) and it showed in not only the EPL's performances in the UCL but also City's own.
Such a good player, no one could forget his birthday, no one.
I agree, a ridiculously good PL player at his peak but with little European pedigree at City to speak of and competition from other genuine PL greats there's no way he's out on his own as the best for me.
Nah. Top player when he turned up, but best ever?
He was far more than ‘physical attributes’. He was a great passer and dribbler too. The man has set PL passing records!
And he was very instrumental in his team winning the league (still remember his goal to beat Newcastle away while we were chasing them down), and scored great goals in Cup finals. Not sure what ‘final push he lacked to get his team to the highest of heights’.
Ah, the old ‘when he turned up/wanted to/felt like it’. During his peak years he turned up just as often as the other midfielders he’s compared with. He made the team of the year twice in his 8 year spell, of which the last two at least he was past it and a squad player.
A great player.
Like others have said - for the sheer longevity and showings in Europe (Yaya for City only here); Lampard, Gerrard, and probably Scholes are higher up.
The debate about him vs Silva is an interesting one. I’d have said with ease a few years ago that I’d prefer Yaya, but Silva’s reinvention under Guardiola mustn’t be understated.
Like others have said - for the sheer longevity and showings in Europe (Yaya for City only here); Lampard, Gerrard, and probably Scholes are higher up.
The debate about him vs Silva is an interesting one. I’d have said with ease a few years ago that I’d prefer Yaya, but Silva’s reinvention under Guardiola mustn’t be understated.
You are referencing two cases in making a case against an entire career. Is there a single player who has not had bad games?
As for the rest of your point, the likes of Scholes and Keane and Gerrard, for the most of their careers played in a PL that was behind Italy (late 90's and early 200's) and Spain as well as Bayern Munich. This is not unique to Toure as the PL was only ever truly on top for one or two years in the era when all these players played.
I didn't limit him to physical attributes at all, I said that he may lack some of the other midfielder's attributes but his physical attributes (which are above those other players) brings him back up on par with them. He could do things that they couldn't because of his size and athleticism.
And the final push to reach the highest of heights would be helping City to a CL final, or to maintain the level he showed in 13/14 for longer. His drop off was quite rapid after his peak.
Best ever if we consider players from 2010-11 maybe.
There is no way that Toure is even close to being an undisputed best midfielder of all-time for the PL. Depending on how you judge it, I'd argue he doesn't even make the top 10.
Ah okay, apologies. That said, I don’t think he lacked any of their attributes. He was technically as good in my opinion. As I said, he’s set passing records in the PL both over 90mins and an entire season. He could dribble too and none of the great British midfielders could really.
You’re right about CL though. City as a whole hadn’t gotten to grips with it at the time, although he himself had some great individual performances, like in the Bernabeu for example. I think most PL newcomers take a while with the CL. Leicester and Blackburn were famously poor first-timers. City just couldn’t replicate their domestic form, and Toure was a part of that group so must share the blame, agreed.
I was hoping this thread would feature African Shamans.
I doubt City fans would have him above Silva. Let alone in the pantheon of greats.
How good was his best season is a totally different question.
How good was his best season is a totally different question.
If you judge it by ‘best’, and not who had the most good years in the PL, I think not having him in the top 10 is ludicrous. 10 midfielders performing better than he did at his peak? Not piecing together good bits over 10 years, but actually having it altogether to be one player at a given time?
And I haven’t seen you around for a while, welcome back.
He was crazy good in 2013-14.
Was like a bulldozer when running with the ball not to mention how he suddenly became a free kick expert(scored 5 goals)
Was like a bulldozer when running with the ball not to mention how he suddenly became a free kick expert(scored 5 goals)
Thanks, pal, I've mostly ignored the Football forum for quite some time, but it seems the return of football brings back all the juicy discussions.
I'll be completely honest, I just never liked Toure as a player and thought he was overrated. I feel if I try to be fully objective, I can't put him in the top 5 but he should be in the next tier of midfielders, but due to my biases I'd leave him out of my personal top 10.
Fair enough, well good to see you back. Based on this response (you have used the phrases ‘if I try to be fully objective’ and ‘due to my personal biases’)I don’t think you can be called to the stand as a credible witnessThanks, pal, I've mostly ignored the Football forum for quite some time, but it seems the return of football brings back all the juicy discussions.
I'll be completely honest, I just never liked Toure as a player and thought he was overrated. I feel if I try to be fully objective, I can't put him in the top 5 but he should be in the next tier of midfielders, but due to my biases I'd leave him out of my personal top 10.
Yeah, that's a fair deduction. Sometimes I can appreciate class rival players and give their deserved props, like a Henry, Bergkamp, Lampard, Silva, De Bruyne, Drogba, etc. But in other cases, like a Toure or a Gerrard, or even a Suarez, the United fan in me draws the line of being objective.Fair enough, well good to see you back. Based on this response (you have used the phrases ‘if I try to be fully objective’ and ‘due to my personal biases’)I don’t think you can be called to the stand as a credible witness
The difference is that those players had considerable success on the European stage. Not only have all of them won the competition but also reached the latter stages consistently, something Yaya hardly did with City. During Yaya's time City:
2010/11: Lost in Europa League R16 to Dynamo Kviv
2011/12: 3rd in UCL Group --> Lost in Europa League R16 to Sporting Lisbon
2012/13: Last in UCL Group
2013/14: 2nd in UCL Group --> Lost in UCL R16 to Barca
2014/15: 2nd in UCL Group --> Lost in UCL R16 to Barca
2015/16: 1st in UCL Group --> Lost in UCL Semi Final to Madrid
2016/17: 2nd in UCL Group --> Lost in UCL R16 to Monaco
He wasn't a regular in 2017/18.
So in 7 years at the club they had 1 semi final appearance, twice got knocked out at the group stage and only won their group once. That's a horrible record for a club that was regarded as the best in England during the same period. Yaya hardly ever performed at a high level in the UCL so it's no surprise City weren't successful also.
For the argument about the quality of the league, I think England was close to Spain during the early 00's while the BL had a massive drop during the same period. In the 2010's though, the BL would've had a case of being better than England (and there were 3 years when the BL was actually 2nd in the UEFA coefficients with the EPL being third).
Regardless though, in neither case of European success or quality of the league does Yaya stand close to the rest of the legendary midfielders of the past. He is a tier below, a great player but not a league legend in my opinion, I would put him with the likes of Alonso, Carrick etc.
So basically.... ‘Yaya Toure was not one of the best midfielders in the CL.’ Okay. We’ll go with this new question then I guess.
Don't think so, he had the talent but not always the application. Thinking of some insipid displays in Europe, although he always turned up big time against United.
In terms of peak form, only De Bruyne is his level in the past 10 years among PL midfielders. But if you go further back, you have the whole Scholes/Gerrard/Lampard take your pick. Scholes was Scholes, we all know how good he was, while Gerrard and Lampard both finished in the top 3 of Ballon d'Or in their peak.
But the two best for me are Roy Keane and Patrick Vieira. Two titans of midfield, could do it all and run games from the middle. Toure had the potential to be that level but Keane and Vieira did it for longer at a higher level for me.
In terms of peak form, only De Bruyne is his level in the past 10 years among PL midfielders. But if you go further back, you have the whole Scholes/Gerrard/Lampard take your pick. Scholes was Scholes, we all know how good he was, while Gerrard and Lampard both finished in the top 3 of Ballon d'Or in their peak.
But the two best for me are Roy Keane and Patrick Vieira. Two titans of midfield, could do it all and run games from the middle. Toure had the potential to be that level but Keane and Vieira did it for longer at a higher level for me.
Where does Hendo feature in this conversation is what I want to know
You can't arrogate an entire team's performance and results to one player. The proper metric to examine is how influential the player was in each campaign regardless of how poor his team was. Otherwise, I could easily point out that by your own logic Gerrard cannot be considered a premier league great since he never won the league with Liverpool. I might also point out that Toure has also won the Champions League and La Liga when La Liga was the best league, along with the premier league. Inconsistent logic is not logic.
As for comparing Toure with Carrick and Alonso...come on. None of them were ever able to do the things he did.
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