Young French Talent

[Ramos]

It's a bit too easy. France had a similar demography 10-15 years ago, yet weren't anywhere near where they are now between 2006 and 2014. Remember, they had that scandal back in 2011 where Laurent Blanc suggested a cap on dual-nationality players precisely because he thought having too many "athletic" players hampered the team and felt they needed to copy Spain.

Has to be more than that. Something has changed. Also the black players are far better now than they were then. Look at the names.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

It's a bit too easy. France had a similar demography 10-15 years ago, yet weren't anywhere near where they are now between 2006 and 2014. Remember, they had that scandal back in 2011 where Laurent Blanc suggested a cap on dual-nationality players precisely because he thought having too many "athletic" players hampered the team and felt they needed to copy Spain.

Has to be more than that. Something has changed. Also the black players are far better now than they were then. Look at the names.

You mean players in general are far better than they were then but only in physical terms, not skill.

 

[JPRouve]

I dont really see how someone could objectively look at the current generation of top young French footballers and say they aren't benefitting from having a number of players of African origins. If it's simply coaching and scouting why are so many of their best young players black? I think they are benefitting from immigration and they high standard of coaching is bringing it to fruition.

The difference between them and England is probably scouting and coaching. Agreed.

But the immigration isn't new, it's not a new factor and the question was about what is currently injected? The answer to that question is coaching and scouting, if african decents appeared in the last decade you could have a point but it's not the case.

I'm not disputing the raw material that immigration provides but the lack of logic of your answer, you didn't answer the question asked.

 

[SteveW]

But the immigration isn't new, it's not a new factor and the question was about what is currently injected? The answer to that question is coaching and scouting, if african decents appeared in the last decade you could have a point but it's not the case.

I'm not disputing the raw material that immigration provides but the lack of logic of your answer, you didn't answer the question asked.

I'm finding it hard to keep track of the changing "logic" of this thread. Being in work is no help. Might come back later and see if I can follow it better.

 

[11101]

This part isn't true. It's about the clubs and the youth coach trainings not Clairefontaine. Clairefontaine is very limited in terms of age and volume. Most players develop later than Clairefontaine's age groups.

True but some of France's greatest talents have still come through there, and pretty much all the professional coaches in France go there at one time or another.

 

[Cloud7]

If France currently has a golden generation, then you might as well say Brazil has one. There isn't much separating them talent wise. Belgium, same.

You what mate? You can point at France and say that in almost every position they have a top 3-4 player in the world in that position.

The only player of that level that Brazil currently have is Neymar. They have quite a few good players, and a few solid players, but they are very very far from a golden generation, and I say this as someone who’s always loved the Brazilian National team.

 

[JPRouve]

True but some of France's greatest talents have still come through there, and pretty much all the professional coaches in France go there at one time or another.

For coaches, it's a bit different. While they are formed locally, the INF also provides formations at Clairefontaine, most of the job is done at a regional level though. The key point here is that the FFF is heavily involved in the formation of coaches, Clairefontaine is where the direction is but it's not the only place in the country. People shouldn't see Clairefontaine as a mystical place, it's simply where the DTN works, where the french teams stay and the Pole France; most of the work isn't done there, it's done by clubs and the regional centers of the FFF.

 

[the_irish123]

You what mate? You can point at France and say that in almost every position they have a top 3-4 player in the world in that position.

The only player of that level that Brazil currently have is Neymar. They have quite a few good players, and a few solid players, but they are very very far from a golden generation, and I say this as someone who’s always loved the Brazilian National team.

What?

Lloris; Mendy, Kimpembe, Varane, Pavard ; Matuidi, Kante is their back 7. Apart from Kante, none of them have a shout at being top3 in their position. Then they have Giroud as striker.. I am lazy but if you line up Brazil's XI, they are maybe even stronger. Belgium imo are stronger.

I just really dislike people overrating WC winners, and their domestic league too. It happened with Germany, and then their league is now awful and they got relegated and left in group stages. Lets relax a bit with the overreactions.

 

[Cloud7]

What?

Lloris; Mendy, Kimpembe, Varane, Pavard ; Matuidi, Kante is their back 7. Apart from Kante, none of them have a shout at being top3 in their position. Then they have Giroud as striker.. I am lazy but if you line up Brazil's XI, they are maybe even stronger. Belgium imo are stronger.

I just really dislike people overrating WC winners, and their domestic league too. It happened with Germany, and then their league is now awful and they got relegated and left in group stages. Lets relax a bit with the overreactions.

Lloris is a very good keeper for France, hardly the maniac that turns up at Spurs.

How many LB’s are better than Lucas Hernandez or a fit Mendy. Varane is very much a top 3-4 CB in the world. Umtiti is very good as well, but granted he may not quite be there. Pavard, fair enough.

Their midfield base is Pogba and Kante. Kante is arguably the best in the world at what he does, and Pogba is very much a top 4 CM in world football. Matuidi isn’t in that bracket, but he’s there for balance and work rate.

Mbappe and Griezmann? Definitely in the very top bracket. Again Giroud isn’t, but he’s there for a specific purpose, which he performs excellently.

 

[Charles Miller]

What?

Lloris; Mendy, Kimpembe, Varane, Pavard ; Matuidi, Kante is their back 7. Apart from Kante, none of them have a shout at being top3 in their position. Then they have Giroud as striker.. I am lazy but if you line up Brazil's XI, they are maybe even stronger. Belgium imo are stronger.

I just really dislike people overrating WC winners, and their domestic league too. It happened with Germany, and then their league is now awful and they got relegated and left in group stages. Lets relax a bit with the overreactions.

I think there is a colossal difference in the attack. I'm pretty sure even Benzema who is not called to France would easily start for Brazil these days. Griezmann, Dembele, Mbappe, Kante, Pogba all would start for Brazil too.

Now lets assume Brazil had a good european coach, he probably could line up this:

Ederson
Militao Marquinhos Thiago AlexSandro
Casemiro Fernandinho
Arthur
Coutinho Firmino Neymar​

Lets assume France has everybody fit:

Lloris
Pavard Varane Umtiti Mendy
Kante Matuidi
Pogba
Mbappe Griezmann Dembele​

As we can see 5 of those midfielders/attack would start for Brazil. And we can make a case for the defense too. They have a fantastic generation.

 

[the_irish123]

I think there is a colossal difference in the attack. I'm pretty sure even Benzema who is not called to France would easily start for Brazil these days. Griezmann, Dembele, Mbappe, Kante, Pogba all would start for Brazil too.

Now lets assume Brazil had a good european coach, he probably could line up this:

Ederson
Militao Marquinhos Thiago AlexSandro
Casemiro Fernandinho
Arthur
Coutinho Firmino Neymar​

Lets assume France has everybody fit:

Lloris
Pavard Varane Umtiti Mendy
Kante Matuidi
Pogba
Mbappe Griezmann Dembele​

As we can see 5 of those midfielders/attack would start for Brazil. And we can make a case for the defense too. They have a fantastic generation.

Dembele gets benched for out of form Coutinho in big games. I think Neymar right now is better than Mbappe. Pogba and Kante have the EPL marketing but Casemiro and Arthur are just as good at football imo. Brazils full backs and goalkeepers are much more impressive, the center backs are a toss up .. Griezmann is someone Brazil cant match but thats it

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

Clairefontaine isn't the reason why the current French generation is so good, in fact players don't stay very long at Clairefontaine, 2 or 3 years at most, It's not an actual academy, the players still have to go through an actual club academy later on.

Comparing starting XI is a bit unfair as you could easily argue France's starting XI doesn't have the best French players anyway, especially on current from with Laporte and Lenglet not even featuring the squad and plenty of better strikers than Giroud being left out too.

 

[Lynty]

Dembele gets benched for out of form Coutinho in big games. I think Neymar right now is better than Mbappe. Pogba and Kante have the EPL marketing but Casemiro and Arthur are just as good at football imo. Brazils full backs and goalkeepers are much more impressive, the center backs are a toss up .. Griezmann is someone Brazil cant match but thats it

Ye I see what you mean. Brazil doesn't have a squad of top talent though, and kids lining up waiting to break through like France.

If France currently has a golden generation, then you might as well say Brazil has one. There isn't much separating them talent wise. Belgium, same.

Just to clarify, my original point was this Brazil generation is a shadow of its past great teams. It seems like we've been waiting an awful long time for Brazil to produce another thrilling group of players.

 

[Sayros]

Dembele gets benched for out of form Coutinho in big games. I think Neymar right now is better than Mbappe. Pogba and Kante have the EPL marketing but Casemiro and Arthur are just as good at football imo. Brazils full backs and goalkeepers are much more impressive, the center backs are a toss up .. Griezmann is someone Brazil cant match but thats it

No, he doesn't. He gets benched because he can't stay fit and is often coming back from injury which is why he is on the bench. He has definitely taken Coutinho's spot this season and has delivered the goods. His main issue is being able to stay fit. This is why you constantly hear about rumors of Coutinho leaving while the Dembele rumors have almost completely ceased to exist compared to last year.

 

[Changeisgood]

France has many benefits..Clairefontaine, diversified immigration but especially African...and a league supportive of playing young talent. I read that France had the most players by a country mile at the WC whether or not they were playing for France or another team. That is an advantage, Blanc failed to see the bigger picture here. French league...great place for youngsters, even if they are not French. This is where the likes of Hazard and Mbappe can grow at the best rate possible. The French can dominate international football if they dont lose track of how to build a successful team not necessarily the most flashy one.

 

[Jib]

Clairefontaine was great in the 90s ( Henry, Anelka, Saha, Gallas....).

 

[In Rainbows]

Sucks that Cherki didn't end up at United.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

Sucks that Cherki didn't end up at United.

They published an article about him in l'Equipe yesterday with many insight from coaches who have had him.
Genesio said he knows him since he is 7 year old (Cherki and Genesio's son played for the same team back then) and was already seeing him do incredible things at that age.
He joined OL aged 7 year old too.

Current head of OL's academy said the goal right now was to give him stability playing with Lyon B in 4th tier football and occasionally going back to U19 for Youth League/Gambardella Cup because just 1 year and half ago he was still playing in U15.
They also talked about his strong/weak foot with both the head of OL's academy as well as his U15 coach saying they never knew for sure what his strong foot was really.

 

[kouroux]

France has many benefits..Clairefontaine, diversified immigration but especially African...and a league supportive of playing young talent. I read that France had the most players by a country mile at the WC whether or not they were playing for France or another team. That is an advantage, Blanc failed to see the bigger picture here. French league...great place for youngsters, even if they are not French. This is where the likes of Hazard and Mbappe can grow at the best rate possible. The French can dominate international football if they dont lose track of how to build a successful team not necessarily the most flashy one.

A similar thing happened in the AFCON too