Your Rebuild

[Rowem]

Out: 1) Giggs, 2) Rio, 3) Buttner, 4) Young 5) Probably one of Nani/Kagawa/Valencia/Hernandez too, 6+7) Anderson and Fabio have pretty much already left too.

In: 1) Shaw/Coentrao, 2) Barkley/Gundogan/Kroos/Vidal etc, 3) Some young full back, probably a leftie.

Promoted/Recalled: 1) Powell or Lingard, 2) M.Keane 3) Zaha 4) Vermijl or Varela

Loan out: 1) Powell or Lingard, 2) Vermijl or Varela

 

[stubie]

By the summer

De Gea/Lindegaard/Amos/Johnstone

Rafael/Varela/Smalling/Jones/Evans/Vidic/Mangala/Shaw/Coentrao

Januzaj/Valencia/Zaha/Felliani/Carrick/Fletcher/Powell/Mata/Koke or Gundongan/Kagawa/Nani

RVP/Rooney/Welbeck/Finnbogason (If Hernandez leaves)

 

[Twigg]

What's with the Reus obsession? If we sign Reus one of Januzaj, Mata or Rooney will lose their starting spot in the team.

Yeah, I don't really see the need in us acquiring him any more, we're fine in this department now, it's just the midfield and left back that needs bolstering.

 

[Rob Bowman]

What's with the Reus obsession? If we sign Reus one of Januzaj, Mata or Rooney will lose their starting spot in the team.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I for one would love to see a selection dilemma, albeit not to bayern's level.

Just my $00.02.

 

[Kill 'em all]

Can't speak for anyone else, but I for one would love to see a selection dilemma, albeit not to bayern's level.

Just my $00.02.

Of course competition is always healthy but we've already got that with Kagawa, Valencia, Zaha and hopefully Nani. We've already spent £27m on Fellaini and £37m on Mata and these figures most likely don't include sign on bonuses and agent fees. If we're going to start making these type of expensive signings, spending this money on an additional attacking player should be very low on our list of priorities with Mata's addition to the team. You don't spend over £30m on a player to put him on the bench.

I want Moyes to build a very defensively sound team that doesn't leak easy goals then everything will come from there. We know we can score but unless we clear out the nervous moments we have at the back, we will never be able to control games. Too many times we're conceding when we look like the ones closest to score and you just don't see teams like Manchester City and Chelsea doing this. If you know you're confident with your defending, 1 goal is enough to get the 3 points. We must now look at our true priorities and sign defenders and central midfielders.

 

[Rob Bowman]

We know we can score but unless we clear out the nervous moments we have at the back, we will never be able to control games.

We have 36 goals in 22 EPL games. A rate of 1.63 goals per game. Last year we had 86 goals in 38 games or 2.26 goals per game. Sorry i am not as optimistic as you...

Also iirc I saw an article about the last 10 mins of games this year and last year. Last year we grabbed 11 points in the last 10 mins, where as this year we have squandered 5 points. I get you want solid defense, we need that, but at least I have no belief in our offense this year to grab the game winner.

Might just be me being pessimistic I guess, but at least some stats back up that our offense is not that good anymore... .

 

[Ekeke]

Well that was RVP and Hernandez' job last season, stealing points when we had no right to just because teams were a bit tired and they were clinical enough to take advantage. This season RVP has had fitness issues and hasn't been at his best. Hernandez still hasn't played much in spite of this and has looked rusty too. Ultimately these 2 players fiddled with our points tally, without them I'm not convinced we'd have been in a title race let alone winning one last season. But its not really okay relying on a couple of poachers each season to steal results, sometimes things will go how they have this season and they'll be the players off form or struggling for fitness. We needed a plan B where we actually play some nice football and deserve to win almost all our games, not just stealing the points at the end.

 

[Rob Bowman]

Well that was RVP and Hernandez' job last season, stealing points when we had no right to just because teams were a bit tired and they were clinical enough to take advantage. This season RVP has had fitness issues and hasn't been at his best. Hernandez still hasn't played much in spite of this and has looked rusty too. Ultimately these 2 players fiddled with our points tally, without them I'm not convinced we'd have been in a title race let alone winning one last season. But its not really okay relying on a couple of poachers each season to steal results, sometimes things will go how they have this season and they'll be the players off form or struggling for fitness. We needed a plan B where we actually play some nice football and deserve to win almost all our games, not just stealing the points at the end.

Agree totally... which is why I want a bit of a selection dilemma... .

 

[Rozay]

I am slowly coming to the belief that our problems can't be sorted out in one summer. I can see another couple of years before we are back amongst it properly.

Does anyone think that we should go after young players and try to grow a team over the next couple of years? Instead of the Vidal's and Benatia's etc, I'm now warming to the idea of us perhaps going for the likes of Kovacic, Bakkali, Papadopolous, Barkley, Carvahlo etc. It is now clear to me that it is more than, 'oh, we just need a midfielder and full-back and then we'll be sorted'. If that were the case I would think that a couple of top class players and we'll be back. I get the impression that we need to practically throw this team in the bin and start again. Only a handful of players are worthy, and half of them are approaching 30 or are already wrong-side of 30 anyway, so their own decline is soon coming.

I just feel we may need to start from the ground up, with top young talent coming in, in addition to some of our own stepping up and basically doing what we did in 1994.

 

[VeevaVee]

Does anyone think that we should go after young players and try to grow a team over the next couple of years?

No, because if that doesn't work we are in monumental shit. Have youngsters scattered alongside established players, like we have always done. We need here and now to avoid us sinking any lower and potentially losing/not attracting quality. Once that happens it'll be almost impossible to come back.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

We won't be challenging for the title for a couple of seasons unless we pull off a City/Chelsea Summer - which I'm not a fan of. Next season's challenge would be to secure top 4 - anything better will be a bonus.

 

[sun_tzu]

As we probably wont have CL football I have gone only for players who probably wont have CL football anyway as targets - also I have focused on young players as part of a rebuild and as we are unlikely to have CL revenues I have tried to keep net spending relatively low

out
moyes
vidic (F), ferdinand (F), evra (F) Buttner (1)
cleverly (10), fellaini (15)
kagawa (12),
young (10), nani (12), valencia (10)
hernandez (12), rooney (15) (not that I want him to go I sadly think its inevitable when we do'nt qualify for the CL with it being the last year of his contract and all that)

about 97m

in
Giggs
ingo Martinez (20) Di Sciglio (15m), Moreno (15m) Santon (10)
Hughes (10m) Wanyama(20m)
Morrison (10m) and promote Powell
Shaarawy (30) Ince (F)
Ings (10) and promote Henriquez

about 140

net spend circa 43m

squad of
degea, lindgard, amos
di sciglio, moreno, rafael, Santon
martinez, jones, smalling, evans
Wanyama, carrick, fletcher, hughes
mata, morrison, powell
janauzzi, shaarawy, zaha, ince,
van persi, welbeck, ings henriquez

-------------------------------de Gea-------------------------------
Di Sciglio------------Jones----------------Martinez------------Moreno
--------------------Carrick---------------Wanyama-----------------
-------------------------------Mata--------------------------------
-------Janauzzi--------------------------------------Shaarawy------
-------------------------------Van Persi----------------------------

lindgard
evans
santon
fletcher
morrison
zaha
welbeck

young team with enough young english trained players to satisfy uefa criteria and probably quite a saving on wages to reflect no cl income next year

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

@sun_tzu

You don't actually think we'll get rid of that many players....right?

 

[Steven Seagull]

As we probably wont have CL football I have gone only for players who probably wont have CL football anyway as targets - also I have focused on young players as part of a rebuild and as we are unlikely to have CL revenues I have tried to keep net spending relatively low

out
moyes
vidic (F), ferdinand (F), evra (F) Buttner (1)
cleverly (10), fellaini (15)
kagawa (12),
young (10), nani (12), valencia (10)
hernandez (12), rooney (15) (not that I want him to go I sadly think its inevitable when we do'nt qualify for the CL with it being the last year of his contract and all that)

about 97m

in
Giggs
ingo Martinez (20) Di Sciglio (15m), Moreno (15m) Santon (10)
Hughes (10m) Wanyama(20m)
Morrison (10m)
Shaarawy (30) Ince (F)
Ings (10)

about 140

net spend circa 43m

squad of
degea, lindgard, amos
di sciglio, moreno, rafael, Santon
martinez, jones, smalling, evans
Wanyama, carrick, fletcher, hughes
mata, morrison, powell
janauzzi, shaarawy, zaha, ince,
van persi, welbeck, ings henriquez

-------------------------------de Gea-------------------------------
Di Sciglio------------Jones----------------Martinez------------Moreno
--------------------Carrick---------------Wanyama-----------------
-------------------------------Mata--------------------------------
-------Janauzzi--------------------------------------Shaarawy------
-------------------------------Van Persi----------------------------

lindgard
evans
santon
fletcher
morrison
zaha
welbeck

young team with enough young english trained players to satisfy uefa criteria and probably quite a saving on wages to reflect no cl income next year

Arguably the best piece of literature I've ever laid my eyes on. How did you manage that?

 

[Chabon]

No, because if that doesn't work we are in monumental shit. Have youngsters scattered alongside established players, like we have always done.

What we have almost always done for the last 20 years is had those 'established players' as youngsters (25 and under) and developed them to become the established players that complement the next set of youngsters. A gradual evolution is what saw us go on an unprecedented run of two decades' worth of top 3 finishes, and kept us winning title after title even when we were almost always outspent by somebody or other. It also built a greater bond between players and club and fans, because we have had a substantially higher average length of service than other clubs.

My greatest fear is that Moyes, due to his lack of ability, is going to turn us away from the gradual evolution that was Fergie's trademark into a revolving door squad like Liverpool or Chelsea. Not that this is all his fault, of course, Fergie began it himself by lazily signing Van Persie.

 

[VeevaVee]

What we have almost always done for the last 20 years is had those 'established players' as youngsters (25 and under) and developed them to become the established players that complement the next set of youngsters. A gradual evolution is what saw us go on an unprecedented run of two decades' worth of top 3 finishes, and kept us winning title after title even when we were almost always outspent by somebody or other. It also built a greater bond between players and club and fans, because we have had a substantially higher average length of service than other clubs.

My greatest fear is that Moyes, due to his lack of ability, is going to turn us away from the gradual evolution that was Fergie's trademark into a revolving door squad like Liverpool or Chelsea. Not that this is all his fault, of course, Fergie began it himself by lazily signing Van Persie.

We were very lucky to have those players come through how and when they did and Fergie credited much of our success to that. We can't expect it to happen again though as it's too hit and miss (probably even more so now without Fergie and his staff).

After that we've tried to bring in real youngsters through the system maybe one or two at a time and I'd like it to continue that way. It makes the most sense if nothing else.

 

[devilish]

As we probably wont have CL football I have gone only for players who probably wont have CL football anyway as targets - also I have focused on young players as part of a rebuild and as we are unlikely to have CL revenues I have tried to keep net spending relatively low

out
moyes
vidic (F), ferdinand (F), evra (F) Buttner (1)
cleverly (10), fellaini (15)
kagawa (12),
young (10), nani (12), valencia (10)
hernandez (12), rooney (15) (not that I want him to go I sadly think its inevitable when we do'nt qualify for the CL with it being the last year of his contract and all that)

about 97m

in
Giggs
ingo Martinez (20) Di Sciglio (15m), Moreno (15m) Santon (10)
Hughes (10m) Wanyama(20m)
Morrison (10m) and promote Powell
Shaarawy (30) Ince (F)
Ings (10) and promote Henriquez

about 140

net spend circa 43m

squad of
degea, lindgard, amos
di sciglio, moreno, rafael, Santon
martinez, jones, smalling, evans
Wanyama, carrick, fletcher, hughes
mata, morrison, powell
janauzzi, shaarawy, zaha, ince,
van persi, welbeck, ings henriquez

-------------------------------de Gea-------------------------------
Di Sciglio------------Jones----------------Martinez------------Moreno
--------------------Carrick---------------Wanyama-----------------
-------------------------------Mata--------------------------------
-------Janauzzi--------------------------------------Shaarawy------
-------------------------------Van Persi----------------------------

lindgard
evans
santon
fletcher
morrison
zaha
welbeck

young team with enough young english trained players to satisfy uefa criteria and probably quite a saving on wages to reflect no cl income next year

Are you related to Joe Kinnear by any chance?

 

[Chabon]

We were very lucky to have those players come through how and when they did and Fergie credited much of our success to that. We can't expect it to happen again though as it's too hit and miss (probably even more so now without Fergie and his staff).

I was talking about players we've signed, youngsters who've gone on to great things by being slowly pushed forward. It's why I get so glum seeing people desperate for us to sign players to take the place of Smalling and Jones. Why did we even bother buying them if we're going to feck them off for some 27 year old Argentinian?

 

[sun_tzu]

Are you related to Joe Kinnear by any chance?

fine either stick with the same players who are currently mid table and find a way to make players like rooney get excited about thursday night uefa football and whilst your at it find a way to make the likes of gundogan, reuss, strootman, cavani, fabregas and the other players people seem to think would be interested give up their cl spots, turn down overtures from top clubs to come and play at a half empty old trafford on a thursday evening.

 

[devilish]

GK: De Gea, Lindegaard, some Man United youth
RB: Rafael, Coleman
LB: Shaw/Coentrao, Buttner
CB: Smalling, Jones
CB: Evans, Mangala/Astori

MC: Gundogan, Fellaini
MC: Carrick, Calvalho, Cleverley

AMR: Mata, Valencia, Zaha
AML: Januzaj, Young, Jesse
AMC: Rooney, Powell

STK: RVP, Welbeck

 

[devilish]

fine either stick with the same players who are currently mid table and find a way to make players like rooney get excited about thursday night uefa football and whilst your at it find a way to make the likes of gundogan, reuss, strootman, cavani, fabregas and the other players people seem to think would be interested give up their cl spots, turn down overtures from top clubs to come and play at a half empty old trafford on a thursday evening.

Janauzzi and Van Persi would be perfect with Kebab, Sissy and Insomnia

 

[VeevaVee]

I was talking about players we've signed, youngsters who've gone on to great things by being slowly pushed forward. It's why I get so glum seeing people desperate for us to sign players to take the place of Smalling and Jones. Why did we even bother buying them if we're going to feck them off for some 27 year old Argentinian?

Fair point, but those usually become very good, very quick. A lot of our younger players at the moment barely seem to be improving. Although they definitely still could, I think it should be alongside already excellent players, which we are short of at the moment. I'd rather sign players around Mata's age or younger if we can though.

 

[Nickosaur]

Out: Amos, Evra, Rio, Vidic, Giggs, Young, Valencia, Hernandez.

GK: De Gea, Lindegaard, Johnstone
RB: Rafael, 1xRB (Coleman, De Sciglio)OR Varela as back-up.
LB: 1xLB (Shaw, Coentrao), Buttner.
CB: Evans, Smalling, Jones, Michael Keane, 1xCB (Mangala, Benatia, Musacchio)
MC: Carrick, Fellaini, Fletcher, Cleverley, 2xCM (Gundogan, Vidal, Marchisio, Carvalho, Kovacic, Rakitic, Herrera, Verratti...)
AMR: Mata, Nani, Zaha
AML: Januzaj, Lingard, 1xAM (someone to play on the left, but can take up any attacking position - Reus, Munian)
AMC: Rooney, Kagawa, Powell
ST: RVP, Welbeck

4-2-3-1. No more out and out wingers (obviously as a plan B, Zaha, Nani, Januzaj and someone like Reus can still take up those positions). It would be nice if all those attackers are competing for 3 positions behind the striker and are all capable of interchanging, with the strongest line up looking something like this.

DDG
Rafael, Evans/NEW CB, Jones, NEW LB
Carrick NEW CM
Mata Rooney Januzaj/NEW AML
RVP

 

[soapythecat]

It's almost impossible to imagine what kind of formation DM wants united to play, so to second guess the players I would like to see is a non starter.
Given our start to 2014, if that is the way he wants to play we may as well tempt Stoke City with a £500k bid for Crouch and have done with it.
Manchester United or not, no world class players are going to want to come and play for Moyes. They will look at how much Mata has gone backwards since he has joined (he will if he is pushed out to do aimless crosses in to the box), and think f**k that. And who could blame them.
I will put my mortgage free house on that we will start the first game of next season with Fletcher/Carrick in the CM positions, with no better CM's at the club.
...the Moyes effect.

 

[Nickosaur]

It's almost impossible to imagine what kind of formation DM wants united to play, so to second guess the players I would like to see is a non starter.
Given our start to 2014, if that is the way he wants to play we may as well tempt Stoke City with a £500k bid for Crouch and have done with it.
Manchester United or not, no world class players are going to want to come and play for Moyes. They will look at how much Mata has gone backwards since he has joined (he will if he is pushed out to do aimless crosses in to the box), and think f**k that. And who could blame them.
I will put my mortgage free house on that we will start the first game of next season with Fletcher/Carrick in the CM positions, with no better CM's at the club.
...the Moyes effect.

If you want to bitch and moan about Moyes, take it to one of the relevant threads.

 

[.J4Me$.]

Out:

Young- 7mill Nani- 15mll, Clevz- 4mill Anderson- 4mill, Hernandez- 20mill, Vidic, Rio, Evra.

=50mill

In:

Vidal- 40mill Coentrao- 12mill Hummels- 25mill, young CB - 12mill, possibly another CM? -30mill

=119mill

Net spend= 69mill

Would sort us right out, get rid of the dross and sadly Hernandez but in turn get some class players, some much needed CM's and replacements from Vidic and Rio.

 

[iAm20Legend]

GK: De Gea, Lindegaard, some Man United youth
RB: Rafael, Coleman
LB: Shaw/Coentrao, Buttner
CB: Smalling, Jones
CB: Evans, Mangala/Astori

MC: Gundogan, Fellaini
MC: Carrick, Calvalho, Cleverley

AMR: Mata, Valencia, Zaha
AML: Januzaj, Young, Jesse
AMC: Rooney, Powell

STK: RVP, Welbeck

Thinking along the exact same lines myself.
Not sure Everton will sell Coleman, though, and if they did it would look like the Baines/Fellaini saga. And possibly, could be Kroos instead of Gundogan, depending on how that pans out and what the prices are.
Problem is, I still don't know who's going to be the leader on the pitch. Looking to Rooney and Jones.

 

[RDCR07]

What's with the Reus obsession? If we sign Reus one of Januzaj, Mata or Rooney will lose their starting spot in the team.

Januzaj is 18. He has plenty of time to be a starter. Competition is good so we can rotate and he doesnt get burnt out. Our wingers are purely shit, like shit I have never seen for United. So we need a world class winger and Reus is definitely one. We need players like him because if Moyes is going to remain in charge, he aint going to change our playing style, which means we need wingers who are unpredicatable, spacy and can make a difference.

 

[devilish]

Thinking along the exact same lines myself.
Not sure Everton will sell Coleman, though, and if they did it would look like the Baines/Fellaini saga. And possibly, could be Kroos instead of Gundogan, depending on how that pans out and what the prices are.
Problem is, I still don't know who's going to be the leader on the pitch. Looking to Rooney and Jones.

My idea is pretty simple ie a rock solid team which would allow the likes of Mata, Januzaj, Rooney and RVP to focus more on the attacking part of their game. Kroos would be an overkill in my opinion.

If we have to spend big money Id rather see us get Vidal then him.

 

[Glanville95]

What's with the Reus obsession? If we sign Reus one of Januzaj, Mata or Rooney will lose their starting spot in the team.

Or Young.

 

[devilish]

Januzaj is 18. He has plenty of time to be a started. Competition is good so we can rotate and he doesnt get burnt out. Our wingers are purely shit, like shit I have never seen for United. So we need a world class winger and Reus is definitely one. We need players like him because if Moyes is going to remain in charge, he aint going to change our playing style, which means we need players who are unpredicatable, spacy and can make a difference.

Januzaj MUST remain first teamer. First of all he deserves it. Secondly its time for us to show that we're able to compensate promising kids with a first team place. This would avoid another Pogba or Rossi scenario. Third but not least money would be better spent in CM and defense rather then on another winger which will contribute in pushing a homegrown talent on the bench.

 

[devilish]

Or Young.

Young is not a great talent but he's the best you can get as cover. Januzaj as cover is wrong on many many levels.

 

[Pexbo]

What's with the Reus obsession? If we sign Reus one of Januzaj, Mata or Rooney will lose their starting spot in the team.

Or Valencia and Young, who have nearly 50 games between them this season.....

 

[RDCR07]

Januzaj MUST remain first teamer. First of all he deserves it. Secondly its time for us to show that we're able to compensate promising kids with a first team place. This would avoid another Pogba or Rossi scenario. Third but not least money would be better spent in CM and defense rather then on another winger which will contribute in pushing a homegrown talent on the bench.

Who said Januzaj isnt going to be a first teamer? Young played ahead of him the last two games. That doesnt mean Januzaj isnt a first teamer. But there will be times when we need to try something different and squad depth is going to be vital. We already showed Januzaj how important he is going to be for us over the years by giving him so many chances and also giving him a contract. So he knows how we feel about him and that is not going to change. But look at all the top teams and the depth they have in their squads.

 

[Pexbo]

Young is not a great talent but he's the best you can get as cover. Januzaj as cover is wrong on many many levels.

How is it wrong? He's 18, it's the perfect player to have as cover while he grows into his body and gains enough experience.



Do you think Bayern, Real and Barcelona accept players of Young and Valencia's quality as "the best you can get as cover"?

 

[Glanville95]

Young is not a great talent but he's the best you can get as cover. Januzaj as cover is wrong on many many levels.

I was joking. I don't even like the notion of Young as a squad player, particularly one on £130,000 a week.

Januzaj is only 19, with players like that at a club of our size, we should be in a position where we can be cautious of our usage over him, so he doesn't suffer burnout, or have too much burgeoning responsibility on his shoulders.

We want a strong squad, signings like Reus can only be a good thing. Januzaj would still play 30-40 plus games a season - barring injury.

 

[gza the genius]

DDG
Rafael - Evans - Smalling/Jones/New CB - New LB
New CM -New CM
Mata - Rooney - Januzaj/New LM
RvP

That's ideally who we would retain in our current team as starters and the positions that need someone new. I honestly wouldn't mind either Rooney or RvP out and move Mata to the center. We could use cover for RB and LB as well. I hope Zaha and Powell are given a chance next season, and Lingard as well.

Evra, Vidic, Rio, and Giggs are all likely to leave. Buttner, Young, Valencia, and even one of Carrick/Cleverley can leave as well.

That's a big overhaul for one summer though and I doubt anything near that level will occur.

 

[kundalini]

out: Rooney, Valencia, Young, Fellaini, Rio, Vidic, Giggs, Evra (only if he wants to leave) or Buttner

in: left back (Alex Sandro ?), starting centre midfielder (Vidal or Pogba or anyone we can convince to come), back-up central defender

play 3 from Nani/Januzaj/Mata/Kagawa, with one from RVP/Welbeck/Hernandez

 

[SiRed]

My rebuild would be

OUTS - Vidic, Evra, Rio, Young, Valencia, Anderson

IN - 1 of Mangala, Hummels, Benetia
- 1 of Shaw, Coentrao
- 1 of Vidal, Pogba
- 1 of Gundogan, Kroos

I also think we should try and snatch Draxler from Arsenals grasp. He is to go a player not to go for.

I no this is muppetry at its finest but if i had 150 mil to spend, that is how i would like to spend it. I obviously dont have the same scouting network that Mr Moyes has.

 

[devilish]

How is it wrong? He's 18, it's the perfect player to have as cover while he grows into his body and gains enough experience.



Do you think Bayern, Real and Barcelona accept players of Young and Valencia's quality as "the best you can get as cover"?

Its wrong because since British talent aren't producing Giggsies and Scholesky players anymore, we must rely on foreign youth talent. These players tend to be less patient and wouldn't appreciate the unique honor of sitting on Manchester United's bench very much. FFS how many youth talent must we lose before we get that in our heads?

Januzaj must remain a first teamer. He should be rested and protected when needed but he must feel that he's a first teamer and that won't happen if we spend ridiculous money on Reus. If not then it would only be a matter of time before some Juventus or PSG will start sniffing around our unhappy player and no amount of SAF's and Paddy's BS will convince him to stay.

And what happened to the United way ie if you're good enough then you're old enough thing?