How would he not be a first teamer if we signed Reus? If we were to sign Reus the front four would or should anyway always consist of 4 of Rooney, Van Persie, Mata, Januzaj and Reus. Others would get an odd match but those 5 would be the regulars. 5 players for 4 spots is hardly too many. With Europa League we would have around 50 matches which would mean 35-40 matches for each. That isn't including injuries which always happen too. Look at Bayern, Barcelona etc. Ashley Young isn't the best you can get as a back-up.
Your Rebuild
- Thread starter SER19
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
One of RvP or Rooney leaving will be a massive blessing in disguise. It will allow us a lot more flexibility and avoid the headache of trying to shoehorn both these guys into archaic 4-4-2.
If we're persisting with Moyes we need two excellent old school wingers and a bean pole to go up top.
See, I think we need a winger, maybe two. But I fear if we do sign them I don't think the middle of the park will ever see the ball!
Excellently put. I've been wearing myself out repeating this for a while.
None of these players deserve or will accept the bench especially if we're in the Europa League.
We're not Real. We never had the financial clout to keep top players like Reus on the bench and this will definitely not change especially if we end up 7th place and with half a squad that needs rebuilding.
I am sure that with Mata and Januzaj as first teamers + Valencia, Young, Zaha and Jesse as cover United has the quality needed on the flanks. We dont need Reus.
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Right, assuming Moyes is still in charge this is what I hope to see...
Out
Zaha
Ferdinand
Evra
Vidić
Büttner
Giggs
Valencia
Young
In terms of incoming transfers it's impossible to tell. I'd promote Powell and Lingard. I've no idea who will be interested in coming to us in the summer but I did say we should be looking at the top talent in the Europa League, France and Portugal.
Out
Zaha
Ferdinand
Evra
Vidić
Büttner
Giggs
Valencia
Young
In terms of incoming transfers it's impossible to tell. I'd promote Powell and Lingard. I've no idea who will be interested in coming to us in the summer but I did say we should be looking at the top talent in the Europa League, France and Portugal.
How is 40+ appearances the bench? Reus would come in and take appearances off of Valencia, Young, Kagawa and Welbeck. He could easily be fitted in without decreasing appearances from the other main 4. What does finances have to do with being able to fit 5 players into 4 spots? Rooney and Van Persie are the highest paid players in the league. We are well able to pay top wages.
But why should we get Reus, when we already have Mata and Januzaj + Valencia, Zaha, Jesse and Young as backup? By the looks of it we would need around 4-5 players. 2 fullbacks (cover/competition for Rafael + replacement for Evra), a CB (replacement for Vidic/Rio) and 2 CM. That will cost us around 80-150m. We're not playing football manager here.
I take it you want to see Zaha out on loan yes? Surely too early to get rid of him...
Don't think Moyes will have much time for him after today's comments.
Im confused..why are people picking Welbeck when there are infinitely better strikers available around the world?
Urgh, just seen the comment. Needless and immature.
I didn't say we should go for him or will or that it is financially possible for us. Your point was that it would be impossible to fit Mata, Januzaj, Rooney and Reus into a squad together unless one of them would be a bench player and get upset. Which is wrong as they would all still be able to get 40+ appearances. 40+ appearances for Januzaj is far from wrong on so many levels.
A right-back, a centre-back, a left-back and two central midfielders, a few tweaks here and there in the tactical department & we'd be off and running again.
De Gea
Rafael/X - Evans/Smalling - X - X
X - X
Mata - Rooney - Januzaj
Van Persie
Rafael/X - Evans/Smalling - X - X
X - X
Mata - Rooney - Januzaj
Van Persie
Quickest means of a rebuild: Moyes out. We have a squad that can compete for the title with proper management. We know this because it has happened. If it is properly reinforced and deployed, there is no reason we can't be contenders in the league and in Europe.
Moyes has already changed the entire backroom staff and would be happy to change the entire squad to suit his "tactics." His inability to adapt is a greater long-term problem for United than the squad. If he can only play one way, he needs to go. Persisting with failure will take us no where.
Moyes has already changed the entire backroom staff and would be happy to change the entire squad to suit his "tactics." His inability to adapt is a greater long-term problem for United than the squad. If he can only play one way, he needs to go. Persisting with failure will take us no where.
Because that's working out really well isn't it.
"Why should we get Reus when we already have Valencia and Young?" You really are the gift that keeps on giving.
Janauzzi
If we had lets say Vidal and Kroos in the middle and a top class LB we'd be a great side providing we stop chucking the ball hopelessly into the box at every opportunity, you listening David? If we managed to secure these players and keep all those already here in that eleven we'd be title winning material.RvP may be gone though unless he can be pursuaded to extend and Rooney likewise but surely if they see the strengthening they would want to be a part of it.We can only hope eh! The club though is full of so much uncertainty and we need to get a grip and steady the ship.I don't want a Rooney or RvP saga to run alongside our recruitment campaign because that won't encourage players to join.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing Rooney go. Between the periodic bouts of pouting, loss of form/fitness and injuries, I just don't think he's worth what he'll demand for his next contract. When you factor in his age, I'd rather sell him and put the funds towards problem areas - after all, the one area where we are pretty well-stocked is in Rooney's position (Mata, Kagawa, possibly even Januzaj.)
I'd rather keep Rooney than RVP.
A really bad injurry record that will keep haunting him for the rest of his career and he is already 31 so how many years will he still be on his top, 2 or 3 max I reckon.
I'd prefer to keep them both, but if there is one I really want us to keep its Rooney and not RVP. He is younger and will have 2 or 3 years more in him than RVP, he is more versatile and less injurry prone.
As long as we keep Rooney, RVP and, to a lesser extent, Carrick, most of the other older players could leave - Rio, Vidic, Evra, Fletcher, Giggs. Moyes will rebuild with Baines, Coleman, Jagielka and Barkley. Maybe Osman and Phil Neville too.
I'm not sure about that. I wouldn't be surprised if Rooney's decline is precipitous. RVP may have 3 years max in him, but I wouldn't bet on Rooney's having much, if any, more in him. Factor in RVP's being the better player (IMO), and he's the player I'd keep.
Rooney not having any more in him, what was that in the first half of the season than that I saw, I saw one of the best players in the league and if RVP wouldn't be here, he'd be playing as our number one striker and getting iinvolved in alot more chances and goals.
I don't even agree that RVP is clearly the beter player, he is more consistent and he is a beter goal scorer, but in terms of overall contribution I think Wayne might still be the more important player.
If RVP's remaining seasons are going to be anything like this year and the previous years he has known at Arsenal, we might seem him for 50-60 games more max in his career. Rooney can easily get more than 150 games I reckon if he stays. That alone is reason enough for keeping him over RVP. Add to that the fact that he is more versatile and can serve the team in more ways than RVP and it really is a nobrainer imo.
As I said I'd prefer to keep them both, we need every class player we can get. But if I'd have to chose between who I'd keep from the two if given the choice, it be a nobrainer and I'd say Rooney, even if I had to up his salary with £50.000 for the remainder of his tenure.
Dede and Dier to be our new Centre backs 
And what exactly does that have to do with my predicting that Rooney won't have more than 2-3 years left at the top level? I also didn't say RVP was clearly better; just that in my opinion, he's the better player. I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that.
We have Mata and Januzaj with the likes of Zaha and Jesse (there's enough potential in these kids for at least one of them to become Januzaj Mark 2) + Valencia and Young as backup. That's good enough. Anyone thinking we'll have 25 world class player is deluded. We simply dont have the means to do so.
I'd close down most internet forums as part of the rebuild for starters.
And alienate the fans that keep this club from being the global success it is?
Buy Andy Carroll and play him as target man, buy few more wingers and fullbacks to support the long ball crossing strategy. Fellaini to play in the hole.
It was tongue in cheek based on the lunacy that is often discussed in here!
Less of a rebuild, but we should play
pretty much until the end of the season. Standard subs would be Hernandez for RVP, Januzaj for Rooney/Mata or Hernandez for a midfielder. Alternate configurations would be every possible configuration of central defenders and every possible combination of midfielders including Kagawa, Fellaini and Jones.
Just give our front 3 the chance to get used to playing together and passing to each other; they are good enough to take on most defences by themselves. And putting 7 men behind the ball at all times should help stop us leaking goals so easily.
De Gea
Rafael - Evans - Vidic* - Evra
Fletcher - Carrick - Cleverley
Mata - - - - - - - - - - - -Rooney
RVP
Rafael - Evans - Vidic* - Evra
Fletcher - Carrick - Cleverley
Mata - - - - - - - - - - - -Rooney
RVP
pretty much until the end of the season. Standard subs would be Hernandez for RVP, Januzaj for Rooney/Mata or Hernandez for a midfielder. Alternate configurations would be every possible configuration of central defenders and every possible combination of midfielders including Kagawa, Fellaini and Jones.
Just give our front 3 the chance to get used to playing together and passing to each other; they are good enough to take on most defences by themselves. And putting 7 men behind the ball at all times should help stop us leaking goals so easily.
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In: Hummels** and Gündogan(combined £50m plus Hernandez) or Hummels(£35m)&Kovacic*/Ramsey/Barkley(£15m/£25m/£30m)
Coentrao/Ricardo Rodriguez: £24m/£10m
Carvalho: £25m
* dependant on World cup performance
**Primary target
Out: Anderson
Valencia
Hernandez
Vidic
Evra
Ferdinand
--------------------------------David De Gea-----------------------------
Rafael(rb) - Chris Smailling/Jones(rcb) - Matt Hummels(lcb) - Fabio Coentrao(lb)
------------------------Micheal Carrick/Carvalho(cdm)-------------------
-----------Juan Mata/Kagawa(rcm) --- Ilkay Gundogan/Powell(lcm)-------------
Adnan Januzaj/Nani(rw)-----Robbin Van Persie/Rooney(st)-----Danny Welbeck/Rooney(lw)
Subs: Lindergaard, Evans/Büttner, Jones/Fellaini, Carvalho/Powell, Kagawa/Zaha, Nani/Lingard, Rooney/W. Keane
Fringe: Cleverley, Fletcher, Lingard, Fellaini, M. Keane, W.Keane, Young,
Basic Gameplan:
Total football that emphasizes intricate passing and high pressing. Implemention of Rodgers philosophy aswell in term of the four p's: Possession, Patience, Pressing and Passion. Defending will be narrow and force the opposition to cross, where Smailling/Jones/Hummels can deal with the situation. Hummels/Evans will be the defensive playmaker and add composure to the back four.
Team Selection:
Players selected who adhere to this intricate passing philosophy and are dynamic. Would prefer Carvalho, Kagawa & Mata midfield trio in the same nature that Barcelona has Iniesta, Xavi, & Bisquit, but in a physical league like the bpl that would be ineffective even with a system that defends via possession of the ball. Which is why I added Gündogan alongside Mata in this system because Gündogan is a complete midfield. Rooney can play on the left if choosing players of names, but in a system that adhere to an intricate passing philosophy, Welbeck suits that role more effectively. Moreover, it helps balance the team that lacks pace and strength upfront.
Coentrao/Ricardo Rodriguez: £24m/£10m
Carvalho: £25m
* dependant on World cup performance
**Primary target
Out: Anderson
Valencia
Hernandez
Vidic
Evra
Ferdinand
--------------------------------David De Gea-----------------------------
Rafael(rb) - Chris Smailling/Jones(rcb) - Matt Hummels(lcb) - Fabio Coentrao(lb)
------------------------Micheal Carrick/Carvalho(cdm)-------------------
-----------Juan Mata/Kagawa(rcm) --- Ilkay Gundogan/Powell(lcm)-------------
Adnan Januzaj/Nani(rw)-----Robbin Van Persie/Rooney(st)-----Danny Welbeck/Rooney(lw)
Subs: Lindergaard, Evans/Büttner, Jones/Fellaini, Carvalho/Powell, Kagawa/Zaha, Nani/Lingard, Rooney/W. Keane
Fringe: Cleverley, Fletcher, Lingard, Fellaini, M. Keane, W.Keane, Young,
Basic Gameplan:
Total football that emphasizes intricate passing and high pressing. Implemention of Rodgers philosophy aswell in term of the four p's: Possession, Patience, Pressing and Passion. Defending will be narrow and force the opposition to cross, where Smailling/Jones/Hummels can deal with the situation. Hummels/Evans will be the defensive playmaker and add composure to the back four.
Team Selection:
Players selected who adhere to this intricate passing philosophy and are dynamic. Would prefer Carvalho, Kagawa & Mata midfield trio in the same nature that Barcelona has Iniesta, Xavi, & Bisquit, but in a physical league like the bpl that would be ineffective even with a system that defends via possession of the ball. Which is why I added Gündogan alongside Mata in this system because Gündogan is a complete midfield. Rooney can play on the left if choosing players of names, but in a system that adhere to an intricate passing philosophy, Welbeck suits that role more effectively. Moreover, it helps balance the team that lacks pace and strength upfront.
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He turned 30 in August.
In: Central midfielder - somebody who can sit alongside Carrick or Fletcher in the middle, and win the ball back. Basically a player with a lot of energy and a good eye for a pass would be nice.
Central defender - Vidic on his way out, and Ferdinand could be joining him. That leaves us with Jonny Evans, Chris Smalling and Phil Jones as our CB options. They're 26, 24 and 21 respectively, so I think I'd like some experience in there with them. Not sure about Jones, but I think Evans and Smalling could be a good partnership at the back, so whoever comes in would probably need to be signed with the view to making them our main CBs in the future. Or maybe another excellent young centreback who could challenge them and make them improve?
Leftback - I like Evra, and I think if he signs a new contract with us he can play a part, but he shouldn't be playing that position every week for us. In my view, if he'd accept it, Evra should be playing as a back-up leftback to a good, youngish, player. Buttner can go away.
Out: Anderson (permanently), Valencia, Buttner or Evra (try to keep Evra, but if he doesn't sign keep Buttner just as back-up), Vidic, Ferdinand.
Central defender - Vidic on his way out, and Ferdinand could be joining him. That leaves us with Jonny Evans, Chris Smalling and Phil Jones as our CB options. They're 26, 24 and 21 respectively, so I think I'd like some experience in there with them. Not sure about Jones, but I think Evans and Smalling could be a good partnership at the back, so whoever comes in would probably need to be signed with the view to making them our main CBs in the future. Or maybe another excellent young centreback who could challenge them and make them improve?
Leftback - I like Evra, and I think if he signs a new contract with us he can play a part, but he shouldn't be playing that position every week for us. In my view, if he'd accept it, Evra should be playing as a back-up leftback to a good, youngish, player. Buttner can go away.
Out: Anderson (permanently), Valencia, Buttner or Evra (try to keep Evra, but if he doesn't sign keep Buttner just as back-up), Vidic, Ferdinand.
De Gea
Rafael Smalling/Jones Evans/??? ???
??? Carrick/Fletcher
Januzaj Rooney/Kagawa Mata
Van Persie/Rooney
Rafael Smalling/Jones Evans/??? ???
??? Carrick/Fletcher
Januzaj Rooney/Kagawa Mata
Van Persie/Rooney
We need "five more Matas" as Moyes said back in Jan.
Genuinely, we need not just a couple of players like the ones below but half a starting XI:
Kroos
Vidal
Gundongan
Reus
Etc etc
Basically a transfer season perhaps never seen in the PL. think Real Madrid 2009.
Genuinely, we need not just a couple of players like the ones below but half a starting XI:
Kroos
Vidal
Gundongan
Reus
Etc etc
Basically a transfer season perhaps never seen in the PL. think Real Madrid 2009.
Atm I think we need at least one more talented winger, can even be a young one but should be a major talent. We need a left and a right FB who are both able to play at the highest level and perform there. We need at least two more quality energetic CMs who on top of that should be able to pass the ball quite well and with Vidic leaving we need at least one top class CB as well.
It's going to be a really expensive summer I fear.
It's going to be a really expensive summer I fear.
Whilst we of course have big issues in central-midfield going back years, my main worry now is the defence. Far too soft (of course the pisspoor midfield plays a role here), amazingly injury-prone and now the veterans are either leaving or should really be thanked for their serve and wished the best.
The lack of goals is a problem; the central-midfield is a mess; the wingers are not the best (unless you class Mata, Kagawa and Januzaj as wingers - in which case feck) but the current state of the defence and the ease in which many teams find in playing against us is crazy. So my rebuild would focus on getting the backline sorted ahead of anything else before pushing forward to reconstruct the midfield next at a later time when the new defence is settled.
The lack of goals is a problem; the central-midfield is a mess; the wingers are not the best (unless you class Mata, Kagawa and Januzaj as wingers - in which case feck) but the current state of the defence and the ease in which many teams find in playing against us is crazy. So my rebuild would focus on getting the backline sorted ahead of anything else before pushing forward to reconstruct the midfield next at a later time when the new defence is settled.
I don't want a hasty 'rebuild'. I want an year of stability first, which means getting back into the top four again.
I'd keep Moyes in charge, but would like to see the board arm-twist him into firing his back-room staff first. Get CQ back as assistant manager, and let Ryan Giggs be the first team coach. That move alone should see our tactics improve by light years.
Moyes would want this in OUT: Anderson, Rio, Vidic, Kagawa, Giggs, Chicarito. Again, I want the board to intervene and block Kagawa and Chicha's sale, unless they are handy in player exchange for a central midfielder. Instead, I want SAF and co. to force through the sale of Cleverley, Valencia, Buttner in addition to the list above. And I want them to trade RvP for Gundogan/Vidal. I also want Evra to sign a new one year deal and stay on as captain.
In the IN department, I do not want us to have a heavy net spend. It is highly improbable that we will get all the first-choice targets we want, and that even if we do, they might end up doing a Fellaini or an Eriksen.
We must overspend only on these players:
- A proven world-class CM in his mid-twenties, 50m
- a proven world-class CB, 25m
- a proven world-class LB, 20m
We must look for bargain deals for:
- a decent DM, <10m
- backup for RB, <10m
Considering the outs, our net spend should be around 80-90m.
---------------------DDG---------------------
--Rafael----Jones----Hummels---Sandro--
---------------Fellaini------Vidal-------------
------Nani-----------Mata--------Januzaj---
------------------Rooney--------------------
Backups:
GK: Lindegaard, Johnstone
LB: Evra, ?
RB: Varela, ?
CB: Evans, Smalling, Keane
CM: Carrick, Fletcher, Powell, ?
AM: Kagawa, Young, Lingard, Zaha
ST: Chicarito, Welbeck, Keane
Tactics: Moyes handles the defensive responsibilities of all his players; the attacking responsibility must be completely delegated to Quieroz. 4-2-3-1, with the LBs providing the width, and the front 4 interchanging positions (Cq's worked with Nani/Rooney in 08, and Januzaj can be our next CR7 under him) in a narrow, high tempo fluid attack. Vidal/Fellaini to provide the muscle and base of the midfield.
All we want is a top four - Moyes' performance should be evaluated till January, and a decision regarding him must be finally made then.
I'd keep Moyes in charge, but would like to see the board arm-twist him into firing his back-room staff first. Get CQ back as assistant manager, and let Ryan Giggs be the first team coach. That move alone should see our tactics improve by light years.
Moyes would want this in OUT: Anderson, Rio, Vidic, Kagawa, Giggs, Chicarito. Again, I want the board to intervene and block Kagawa and Chicha's sale, unless they are handy in player exchange for a central midfielder. Instead, I want SAF and co. to force through the sale of Cleverley, Valencia, Buttner in addition to the list above. And I want them to trade RvP for Gundogan/Vidal. I also want Evra to sign a new one year deal and stay on as captain.
In the IN department, I do not want us to have a heavy net spend. It is highly improbable that we will get all the first-choice targets we want, and that even if we do, they might end up doing a Fellaini or an Eriksen.
We must overspend only on these players:
- A proven world-class CM in his mid-twenties, 50m
- a proven world-class CB, 25m
- a proven world-class LB, 20m
We must look for bargain deals for:
- a decent DM, <10m
- backup for RB, <10m
Considering the outs, our net spend should be around 80-90m.
---------------------DDG---------------------
--Rafael----Jones----Hummels---Sandro--
---------------Fellaini------Vidal-------------
------Nani-----------Mata--------Januzaj---
------------------Rooney--------------------
Backups:
GK: Lindegaard, Johnstone
LB: Evra, ?
RB: Varela, ?
CB: Evans, Smalling, Keane
CM: Carrick, Fletcher, Powell, ?
AM: Kagawa, Young, Lingard, Zaha
ST: Chicarito, Welbeck, Keane
Tactics: Moyes handles the defensive responsibilities of all his players; the attacking responsibility must be completely delegated to Quieroz. 4-2-3-1, with the LBs providing the width, and the front 4 interchanging positions (Cq's worked with Nani/Rooney in 08, and Januzaj can be our next CR7 under him) in a narrow, high tempo fluid attack. Vidal/Fellaini to provide the muscle and base of the midfield.
All we want is a top four - Moyes' performance should be evaluated till January, and a decision regarding him must be finally made then.