Youth team philosophy and structure

[Clique]

I was waiting for the season to end to actually start this thread. But now that we've lost to a team that has more home grown players than most teams, i guess the topic is more relevant.

I once read an article that when Rene was in charge of youth teams we started emphasizing on the pass and move philosophy and one touch football philosophy. In that article i also read that the U-18 team thats playing now was the first to get that training and thus the fruit of his labors. I also read that in 2006, when Rene accepted a managerial position in Brondby IF, the philosophy wasn't enforced as much by his successor. Any truth in that?

Second point, aside from the 90 mile rule that restricts the talent we have access to, would we have any problem in having our youth practice the same routine that has brought Barcelona so much success over the years?. To be frank whatever they do to their youth players, each and everyone one of them has fabulous technique and compared to their english counterparts, they're actually leagues apart in terms of technique. Why haven't more clubs followed suit?

Does any team in the premier league have something similar to the structure followed in Barcelona?

FAO anyone with knowledge of the youth teams in spain, aren't Barcelona youth teams made up of mostly catalans?

 

[andersj]

We definitely need to take it one step further. We should look at the possibility of raising our kids level at U18, and we need to improve the system from the age of 18-21. Barca have raised the bar. We should aim at matching them, and eventually surpassing them.

I dont like that we have to lend out our players in this age. They should be in our club for 90 % of the time, like Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets in Barca (or most of the best talents in our club). That means giving them more competitive matching at a higher lever at this age. Today this is a problem for England.

We are great at developing youngsters, but the restrictions the FA put on us makes it difficult. In addition to removing the 90 min rule, they should improve the league system for the reserves. I also read somewhere that the average Spanish youngster have 1000 more hours contact time with an elite club from the age of nine to 21. In Holland and France they have 2000 more hours. That is a challenge.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Is there no chance that it is mostly down to luck that they've produced so many good players in a cluster... much like we did with the class of 92? Sure, you can have a good youth setup and that definitely helps, but I think a fair amount of luck comes into getting world class players out of it.

 

[Number7]

There's an article of Barcas youth set up here Inside FC Barcelona's football academy, churning out future Messis...for free | Mail Online

Some snippets:

FC Barcelona converted this ornate building into a boarding house in 1979 to accommodate the older boys on their youth programme. Outsiders are not usually permitted inside what is seen as a private place, where the future of the club is being nurtured and the football club is in loco parentis.

From the age of 13 or 14, boys who live outside the city are housed here, letting the club mould their futures more fully, and ensuring their training time is not interrupted by debilitating travel to and from the ground. Typically the 14 year-old boys will train for six hours a week and play a game of 90 minutes.

But crucially it allows the club to develop not just their football skills but their lifestyle and attitudes, preaching the virtues of healthy eating and early nights. The boys live, sleep and eat together at La Masia, housed in bunk-bed dormitories. They eat communally in a stylish refectory with period chandeliers. They do their homework in a spacious library and have a games room with table football, pool and PlayStations.

There are some mitigating circumstances as to why Barcelona can build a team so successfully and their English counterparts cannot. Premier League clubs are now bound by strict rules meaning they can only recruit boys whose journey to their training ground is 90 minutes or less.

'From the age of seven to the age of 15 everything is about working with the football,' says Capellas.

'With the very small boys, the most important thing is to control the ball very well, to have the ability to run with the ball and to think very quickly and execute their passes very well. We spend so much time on passing and on tactics, to understand our style of play, which is the same from the eight-year-olds to the first team.'

Over in England, talk of tactics is not introduced at such an early age. Also, while FA rules prevent Premier League clubs from having feeder teams in other domestic leagues, Barcelona run a reserve team, Barca Athletic, in the Spanish equivalent of the lower division. Many of the players remain at La Masia, which means the club can continue to develop young players between the ages of 18 and 21 in a controlled environment when they are most likely to be tempted by late nights and excess.

A quick look on Wikipedia suggests they have 300 players in this 'La Masia'

There's some more articles on the youth system here Lionel Messi, Cesc Fabregas, Gerard Pique...all forged in Barcelona's hothouse of champions | Mail Online and Barça kids at home at La Masia ? UEFA.com

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Luck comes into it but I read somewhere that Barca's academy costs several multiples more to run than any other academy in Europe. That and the fecking stupid 90 minute rule means it's unlikely you'll see any academy in England match them any time soon.

 

[Rams]

We definitely need to take it one step further. We should look at the possibility of raising our kids level at U18, and we need to improve the system from the age of 18-21. Barca have raised the bar. We should aim at matching them, and eventually surpassing them.

I dont like that we have to lend out our players in this age. They should be in our club for 90 % of the time, like Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets in Barca (or most of the best talents in our club). That means giving them more competitive matching at a higher lever at this age. Today this is a problem for England.

We are great at developing youngsters, but the restrictions the FA put on us makes it difficult. In addition to removing the 90 min rule, they should improve the league system for the reserves. I also read somewhere that the average Spanish youngster have 1000 more hours contact time with an elite club from the age of nine to 21. In Holland and France they have 2000 more hours. That is a challenge.

Inesta, Xavi and Busquets were all loaned out by Barca at some stage. They've been doing that with the majority of their best players for years. They also have Barcelona B playing in the Spanish 2nd league behind La Liga.

I don't think United have a problem with their youth development (weo the stupid 90min rule), but most of the teams in the UK do. This means that United can't scout & find a lot suitable 8-18 years olds from smaller clubs in the UK because the smaller clubs don't train the kids properly.

 

[andersj]

Luck comes into it but I read somewhere that Barca's academy costs several multiples more to run than any other academy in Europe. That and the fecking stupid 90 minute rule means it's unlikely you'll see any academy in England match them any time soon.

I think I've heard they spend £6-7 mill a year on their acadamy, while we spend £2-3 mill.

But I dont think luck is a factor. We have always been the best team in England at developing young players. Luck has nothing to do with it. But we need to take it one step further. Liverppol recently brought in some coaches from Barcelona to their academy, and it seems like it have done them a world of good.

 

[andersj]

Inesta, Xavi and Busquets were all loaned out by Barca at some stage. They've been doing that with the majority of their best players for years. They also have Barcelona B playing in the Spanish 2nd league behind La Liga.

Are you sure? Im pretty sure that they kept these players at Barcelona B. Barcelona B obviously have a higher level than our reserves, and get to face better competition.

 

[Clique]

We definitely need to take it one step further. We should look at the possibility of raising our kids level at U18, and we need to improve the system from the age of 18-21. Barca have raised the bar. We should aim at matching them, and eventually surpassing them

I dont like that we have to lend out our players in this age. They should be in our club for 90 % of the time, like Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets in Barca (or most of the best talents in our club). That means giving them more competitive matching at a higher lever at this age. Today this is a problem for England.

.

I think brwned was the one who recently put an U-11 Barca team video on the caf and their technique on the ball was amazing. The English game unfortunately is built upon Power and speed more than techinique. This, might win you games in the youth tourneys, but eventually technique inculcated from a very young age would stand the player at a better stead. Actually from 18-21 we have a relatively good structure, which allows them maximum game time. Game time is a great teacher, a much better teacher than any training ground exercise.

So i'd root for improving the grassroot more than the 18-21 level.

We are great at developing youngsters, but the restrictions the FA put on us makes it difficult. In addition to removing the 90 min rule, they should improve the league system for the reserves. I also read somewhere that the average Spanish youngster have 1000 more hours contact time with an elite club from the age of nine to 21. In Holland and France they have 2000 more hours. That is a challenge.

This is something the FA should look into i guess.

I think I've heard they spend £6-7 mill a year on their acadamy, while we spend £2-3 mill.

But I dont think luck is a factor. We have always been the best team in England at developing young players. Luck has nothing to do with it. But we need to take it one step further. Liverppol recently brought in some coaches from Barcelona to their academy, and it seems like it have done them a world of good.

Wouldn't it be more helpful in the longer run to actually spend that much or a bit more on the youth team than actually buy a player for 10x amount and the same quality?. The likes of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta are very rare. But to produce players such as Pedro, Busquets with unerring frequency would mean we'd gain a lot more than we spend, if at all we're looking to spend. Further more that would mean that the future of the club would be in safe hands irrespective of the amount of debt the club is in.

Whilst writing that, the number of insanely good midfielders their youth teams have been churning out is amazing, i realised. Iniesta, Fabregas, Busquets,Alacantra who is supposed to be a special talent (sp?)

Can't more teams take a similar approach?

 

[Richter]

Luck comes into it but I read somewhere that Barca's academy costs several multiples more to run than any other academy in Europe. That and the fecking stupid 90 minute rule means it's unlikely you'll see any academy in England match them any time soon.

Luck really does come into it, for every Xavi,Iniesta there is hundreds playing their trade elsewhere. They pluck the most talented kids from Spain and other countries like Messi and drill them technique, technique,technique while a English academy might be concerned over a player's lack of size and focus on physical development instead of skill. And that dreaded 90 min rule ruins things for teams like United and Arsenal. A example, Iniesta(edit Pedro is from Canary Island,Iniesta from southern Spain) is from Canary Islands I think, if they had the 90 min rule he would have played for a local side on his home island instead of being a Barca player. He might not have made it then as a star. And Barca don't care about the size of a player as long as the player show enough ability to play the Barca way.

A operation like this costs a lot of money few clubs can afford though but they rely on a player making the grade every season saving them from splashing out a transfer fee to sign a player. Ajax is the only club I can think of with a similar football philopsophy and focus on own products with great results but things have dried up for them a bit after the great 95/96 sides they had. I think over all these years Wenger has been trying to achieve something similar with Arsenal but he's not had that top tier talent making the grade, so far at least...

United had the Beckham crew, Ajax Seedorf and the gang and now Barca is rewarded for their faith in youth with Xavi and his friends.

 

[Number7]

Financially I'd guess their youth system pays for itself despite the increased costs. If you can produce a player like Xavi 1 in 10,000 players you trial you'll have added £40-50million in value for the club. The scale of their youth operations clearly dwarfs anything in England so although there's an element of luck they've increased their chances by improving their scope.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

They pluck the most talented kids from Spain and other countries like Messi and drill them technique, technique,technique while a English academy might be concerned over a player's lack of size and focus on physical development

That's certainly not true at United, where technical skills are integral to everything we do. We also have a history of sticking with players that lack physical presence if they have the necessary skill.

Jesse Lingard and Larnell Cole are the two most recent examples but Paul Scholes would be the archetype.

 

[Clique]

Luck really does come into it, for every Xavi,Iniesta there is hundreds playing their trade elsewhere. They pluck the most talented kids from Spain and other countries like Messi and drill them technique, technique,technique while a English academy might be concerned over a player's lack of size and focus on physical development. And that dreaded 90 min rule ruins things for teams like United and Arsenal. And Barca don't care about the size of a player as long as the player show enough ability to play the Barca way.

A operation like this costs a lot of money few clubs can afford though but they rely on a player making the grade every season saving them to splash out a transfer fee to sign a player. Ajax is the only club I can think of with a similar football philopsophy and focus on own products with great results but things have dried up for them a bit after the great 95/96 sides they had. I think over all these years Wenger has been trying to achieve something similar with Arsenal but he's not had that top tier talent making the grade, so far at least...

United had the Beckham crew, Ajax Seedorf and the gang and now Barca is rewearded for their faith in youth with Xavi and his friends.

That the thing, look at Xavi, he's 30. The guys who are playing with him are quite a few years younger. Iniesta is around 24, Busquets 22, Messi 23, Pedro 23. The Iniesta generation is whats phenomenal about that team. Add to that the likes of Fabregas who was schooled in their system from 8 to 16 and you have world class players coming out of their youth centre like water from a fountain. Their success rate is phenomenal. Much more so than any otherteam in the world right now.

Plus most of their players are catalan aren't they? They aren't from around spain, so i guess if we spend hell a lot of money , even with the restrictions of the 90 minute rule, we'd be able to produce a group of players who would have a great chance at making football their careers. More so than now.

 

[SharkyMcShark]

I've read that they devote 15 million a year purely to running youth tournaments so they can scoop up the best talent from around Spain.

We can't do the equivalent of that due to the 90 minute rule.

 

[Clique]

I've read that they devote 15 million a year purely to running youth tournaments so they can scoop up the best talent from around Spain.

We can't do the equivalent of that due to the 90 minute rule.

Which i clearly can't understand. Access to better facilities for a talented player would mean he'd become successful and play for England someday. With lesser facilities he might become disinterested and leave the game halfway. So why is it there if it isn't beneficial to England on a larger scale?. Plus can't the LMA or the clubs demand they change that? We've tried with the 90 minute rule for ages now and it hasn't helped the smaller clubs all that much. Perhaps some backtracking and a more productive compensation procedure would be better in the longer run.

 

[Richter]

Which i clearly can't understand. Access to better facilities for a talented player would mean he'd become successful and play for England someday. With lesser facilities he might become disinterested and leave the game halfway. So why is it there if it isn't beneficial to England on a larger scale?. Plus can't the LMA or the clubs demand they change that? We've tried with the 90 minute rule for ages now and it hasn't helped the smaller clubs all that much. Perhaps some backtracking and a more productive compensation procedure would be better in the longer run.

Yes the 90 minute rule can prevent a young player from blossoming out at a club like United and Arsenal that can nurture their talent. Imagine if Messi had been English and lived in the Stoke region. A team like Stoke would throw him out on the street laughing because of his size and he might have given up on football. The English FA should allow United and their peers to nurture the best talent in the country or it's just a case of a talent not coached in the right way that instead ends up in a factory. That only hurts the English NT and the small club that can't coach the most talented players gain nothing. True it might benefit United but also the English NT that looks more and more dried up on quality players.

 

[RedLars]

That the thing, look at Xavi, he's 30. The guys who are playing with him are quite a few years younger. Iniesta is around 24, Busquets 22, Messi 23, Pedro 23. The Iniesta generation is whats phenomenal about that team. Add to that the likes of Fabregas who was schooled in their system from 8 to 16 and you have world class players coming out of their youth centre like water from a fountain. Their success rate is phenomenal. Much more so than any otherteam in the world right now.

Plus most of their players are catalan aren't they? They aren't from around spain, so i guess if we spend hell a lot of money , even with the restrictions of the 90 minute rule, we'd be able to produce a group of players who would have a great chance at making football their careers. More so than now.

Actually he's born in 1984, making him 27.

 

[TheGame]

A operation like this costs a lot of money few clubs can afford though but they rely on a player making the grade every season saving them from splashing out a transfer fee to sign a player. Ajax is the only club I can think of with a similar football philopsophy and focus on own products with great results but things have dried up for them a bit after the great 95/96 sides they had. I think over all these years Wenger has been trying to achieve something similar with Arsenal but he's not had that top tier talent making the grade, so far at least...

United had the Beckham crew, Ajax Seedorf and the gang and now Barca is rewearded for their faith in youth with Xavi and his friends.

Ajax have produced a number of players since the 95/96 team such as Rafael van der Vaart, Wesley Sneijder, John Heitinga and Nigel de Jong.

More recently Maarten Stekelenburg, Urby Emanuelson, Gregory van der Wiel and Thomas Vermaelen. Plus there's plenty more currently who will soon be making the step up.

 

[SharkyMcShark]

Jan Vertonghen etc

 

[gulli_G]

so is rene gone? i thought we still had him as he came back from his managerial stint.

Edit i'm right:

René Meulensteen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Good thread.

For all the talk of we need to buy this player and that player to compete with them what I took from last nights game is that you simply cannot manufacture the understanding that comes from a really good core of players coming through the youth setup together.

We had a great bunch in the early 90's and it looks like we have a fairly decent crop coming through again at the moment.

It's a shame that the rules over here hamper us somewhat in having a Barca style set up but we're well ahead of the pack in this country in that respect.

 

[datura]

That's certainly not true at United, where technical skills are integral to everything we do. We also have a history of sticking with players that lack physical presence if they have the necessary skill.

Jesse Lingard and Larnell Cole are the two most recent examples but Paul Scholes would be the archetype.

Our Academy team next year us going to be full of small, highly technically gifted youngsters. It's going to be enjoyable to watch them progress against the more traditional English youth teams.

 

[Richter]

Ajax have produced a number of players since the 95/96 team such as Rafael van der Vaart, Wesley Sneijder, John Heitinga and Nigel de Jong.

More recently Maarten Stekelenburg, Urby Emanuelson, Gregory van der Wiel and Thomas Vermaelen. Plus there's plenty more currently who will soon be making the step up.

I know they still produce quality players on a regular basis but they haven't been able to blend them all in to this dominant side in Europe the past decade like they were 15-16 years ago thanks to richer teams buying the top players every summer. That's why I said it's dried up for them a bit when it comes to results, should have clarified that earlier. If a group of quality youngsters makes it at United or Barca there is a big chance they all will stay together a long time and form a bond/connection. If that happens at Ajax the likes of Milan,Real etc just buy the best forcing them to start over from scratch.

 

[devilish]

Barca's way is to invest heavily on youths and add top quality players to them in certain key weaknesses. That's my opinion a system we can emulate.

 

[Baby Faced Assassin]

Is there no chance that it is mostly down to luck that they've produced so many good players in a cluster... much like we did with the class of 92? Sure, you can have a good youth setup and that definitely helps, but I think a fair amount of luck comes into getting world class players out of it.

I concur somewhat. I think Barca will continue to produce players of the highest technical level. But to have players of the level of Xavi & Iniesta come out of your system whilst having probably the biggest talent of your generation in Messi is somewhat down to luck. Alves, Abidal, Pedro & Villa were imported talent that have excelled under Barca's system. I guess we can take some credit for Pique. Another notable players from their system are Puyol & Buscuit.

 

[datura]

Re Barca, the 'B' team also puts them at an advantage as they can play their younger players in a competitive league all together, rather then having to use the loan system. It allows for a fair more seamless transition to the first team.

Interestingly, I remember the Barca team from the premier cup was actually quite tall and had some very physically mature players in comparison to United.

 

[Richter]

Re Barca, the 'B' team also puts them at an advantage as they can play their younger players in a competitive league all together, rather then having to use the loan system. It allows for a fair more seamless transition to the first team.

Interestingly, I remember the Barca team from the premier cup was actually quite tall and had some very physically mature players in comparison to United.

Just what the world need, another generation of Xavi's and Iniesta's that are 6'2

I agree regarding Barca B. A Barca B player can be promoted to the A team and be familiar with the systems and tactics at once since all Barca teams play the same way. I remember United testing the water regarding having a reserve team in the league system but nothing never happened.

 

[Clique]

Our Academy team next year us going to be full of small, highly technically gifted youngsters. It's going to be enjoyable to watch them progress against the more traditional English youth teams.

Thats what i was referring to as Rene's prodigies. Do we still have that same setup after he left us for Brondby IF?. The questions posed in the OP were to the likes of you and Mr.Mujac who are quite well versed with our youth structure.

We are talking about the likes of Ben Pearson and co. right?

 

[datura]

Thats what i was referring to as Rene's prodigies. Do we still have that same setup after he left us for Brondby IF?. The questions posed in the OP were to the likes of you and Mr.Mujac who are quite well versed with our youth structure.

We are talking about the likes of Ben Pearson and co. right?

They have a system in place implemented by a number of coaches, some I'd which will have come from Meulensteen and overseen by McClair. I think Eamon Mulvey heads up the skills part now.

This is the article where a lot of the philosophy is described:

Man United's flair factory is the way forward - Telegraph

Re the small players: Daehli, Gorre, Rudge, Pearson, Wilkinson etc are all diminutive bit look very good technically. I'm sure i'm missing a few as well. Van Velzen and Blackett will tower over them!

 

[Clique]

They have a system in place implemented by a number of coaches, some I'd which will have come from Meulensteen and overseen by McClair. I think Eamon Mulvey heads up the skills part now.

This is the article where a lot of the philosophy is described:

Man United's flair factory is the way forward - Telegraph

Re the small players: Daehli, Gorre, Rudge, Pearson, Wilkinson etc are all diminutive bit look very good technically. I'm sure i'm missing a few as well. Van Velzen and Blackett will tower over them!

One more question. How does our flair development uptil 11 compare to the philosophy at Barca?. Indeed, how does our youth development compare to theirs (Theirs obviously tasting more success these days because they started early). I read somewhere their skills and flair coaching goes right uptill they reach a ripe old age of 16.

But yes it will certainly be exciting watching the academy teams next year. We might lose a few because the rest might be physically more mature, but as our players fill out they'll have better careers. Interesting times indeed.

 

[datura]

To be honest I can't answer that, all I know is from interviews etc and rare newspaper articles. I know they are looking to get children in earlier to the system. I assume the skills training is continual. We seem to value ability and technique above physical attributes, even with our current youth team, although they were 'big', all had sound techniques and ability.

 

[Snow]

English youth coaches are mostly rubbish. They haven't got the know how. Very few of them have proper badges. They're very much stuck in the same old way with a few new implements here and there.

In Spain, not just Barcelona, their whole youth system philosophy is way different and the coached DO have proper badges. Badges only get you so far but they at least open you up to a new way of thinking.

 

[Ubik]

We're as good as anyone in England, just limited by the 90 minute rule and a national philosophy which differs to that of Spain. Aged 18 and above we have a very decent collection of technically excellent youngsters, a few of whom have a chance of making it here and, as datura said, our next batch could add to that number. There's certainly no revolution needed. Would be nice to see a few of the youth cup winning side given chances next year though, just to see what they're like against top opposition.

 

[Clique]

We're as good as anyone in England, just limited by the 90 minute rule and a national philosophy which differs to that of Spain. Aged 18 and above we have a very decent collection of technically excellent youngsters, a few of whom have a chance of making it here and, as datura said, our next batch could add to that number. There's certainly no revolution needed. Would be nice to see a few of the youth cup winning side given chances next year though, just to see what they're like against top opposition.

We're actually better, if the reports which datura posted in accurate. We've built our youth on technique rather than physique.

What i was talking about in the OP, was that we bettering our structure so that we churn out players the way Ajax or Barca. I agree the 90 minute rule is bloody irritant, but going the techique way so to speak, would only provide us or any other team that follows it benefits both financially and player wise.

 

[Fearless]

We're actually better, if the reports which datura posted in accurate. We've built our youth on technique rather than physique.

What i was talking about in the OP, was that we bettering our structure so that we churn out players the way Ajax or Barca. I agree the 90 minute rule is bloody irritant, but going the techique way so to speak, would only provide us or any other team that follows it benefits both financially and player wise.

Watford's academy have got it bang on.

Contact time is key, make no mistake about it.

And Watford's boys train even more than Barca, let alone three times more than ours.

After four years in the making, the first batch are breaking into the first team

 

[Claymore]

You can talk about luck all you like and maybe there is a small element but mostly its down their hard work they put into the system and coaching. English clubs have the same problem that England international team does compared with other European countries, which is that they simply get more hours coaching/training/playing than our kids do.

Things are different now at United to how they were with the class of '92 like Scholes, Beckham etc. That was at a time when we needed players, desperate for them and had the chances to give them. Now in 2011 we spend money on a bigger player here or there but are spending or bringing in younger players from all over the place, Rafael and Fabio for example or even Nani, Ronaldo and Anderson. These are good players but it limits the chances you give to your own youth academy players. Most of them were brought in more 18-21 from other clubs coaching and we developed them further but there seems to be lots of interest from English clubs in the even younger kids these days and their academies are filling up with them more. Every other day it seems we are linked with this teenage kid with good potential or are locked in battle with other clubs for them.

It'd be great to see more English and British kids coming through, especially local ones but I just can't see it because the competitions are so strong in England and games are important, costly if lost. Look at Welbeck and Cleverly, they've barely had a look in and had to go out on loan to lesser clubs who aren't as strong as we are and have the room to give them game time that we can't. As said, Barcelona and the likes have their B teams playing in the league system or these various other methods but all we have in England is the reserve league or sending them out on loan. Add that to the lesser hours of coaching they get and we're at a big disadvantage. Its a tricky situation, I mean you can't fill the starting eleven of the United first team with kids and hope they come good because you'll fall out of the Champions league slots and maybe not win anything, fans will moan, pundits like Hansen will mock you like he did but a balance needs to be found. Who know's maybe United are currently looking at ways to get our youth better chances or alter the system.

Mentioned it before but Gerrard Houllier talked ages ago about how in France at the Clairefontaine academy they had far more hours work with their kids than they did at Liverpool. Don't know how much that has changed but at least now under Kenny they seem to be giving a few a chance. Again, we're better team than Liverpool and don't want to be in 6th place or anything but its admirable at least.

Uniteds academy and facilities is obviously very good compared to some clubs in England and the likes of Brown, O'shea and Gibson coming into the squad are valuable to have but they're not quite the level we've had in the past and I think its wrong to think that we can't ever produce players like that again or that it was a one off. With England the FA are like one of the strongest FA's in the world, the original one and are only just building their football centre, where other lesser nations have them already. Obviously United isn't in that bad a state but are lagging behind other clubs, especially when you consider the size of the monster than Manchester United is.

England and the FA have known for years we're lacking in terms of our rules, system and coaching and United also need to ramp up the training hours to compete IMO. The 90 minute rule again as others have said, is just crazy. Although that said, if the hours of training and system are right you should still be able create good young players.

Scholes is a good example of someone who can make it at our club and in this tough league, with technical ability rather than strength and pace. Didn't he even have/has asthma as well? We'll have to wait and see how Welbeck and Clev get on but right now only really Gibson is involved in the main squad of the newer crop.

 

[Claymore]

Watford's academy have got it bang on.

Contact time is key, make no mistake about it.

And Watford's boys train even more than Barca, let alone three times more than ours.

After four years in the making, the first batch are breaking into the first team

Even more than ours and Barcas?

 

[elmo]

English football has a major disadvantage because the 90 mins rule is meant to protect the smaller clubs with history. Unlike in most countries where's there's basically max 50 clubs which can be considered professional, England has nearly 4 times the number of that. Add that to England youth football system which thinks that winning > talent development, it'll be hard for English football to match up to the likes of Barcelona's youth academy.

 

[Clique]

Even more than ours and Barcas?

Indeed.

English football has a major disadvantage because the 90 mins rule is meant to protect the smaller clubs with history. Unlike in most countries where's there's basically max 50 clubs which can be considered professional, England has nearly 4 times the number of that. Add that to England youth football system which thinks that winning > talent development, it'll be hard for English football to match up to the likes of Barcelona's youth academy.

Wouldn't a better compensation package procedure have more benefit to the smaller clubs than having talented players subjected to poorer facilities. England would be better for the same. Money at the lower leagues and Players getting better training centres. Someone should tell the FA the 90 minute rule just isn't working.

 

[Fearless]

Even more than ours and Barcas?

Watford academy: 15 hours a week + match.
Barcelona (La Masia): 8 hours + match
EPL clubs: 5 hours + match