Youth team philosophy and structure

[Stojan Stamenic]

There is no single United player in England's U17 World Cup team... And our most talented players (Tunnicliffe, Morrison, Cole) are not playing for England's U19 in the last phase of qualifications for European Championships. And when we think that large majority of our Youth Cup winners are homegrown players... Where's the problem...?

 

[datura]

There is no single United player in England's U17 World Cup team... And our most talented players (Tunnicliffe, Morrison, Cole) are not playing for England's U19 in the last phase of qualifications for European Championships. And when we think that large majority of our Youth Cup winners are homegrown players... Where's the problem...?

There's no problem. The England age group selections have always been rather 'odd'.

 

[Stojan Stamenic]

Do you think, that our players would benefit from these tournaments...? For me it's very interesting to see that almost all Liverpool players that played against us in Youth Cup QF - are in England U19 and U17 teams.

 

[datura]

Do you think, that our players would benefit from these tournaments...? For me it's very interesting to see that almost all Liverpool players that played against us in Youth Cup QF - are in England U19 and U17 teams.

Possibly, but I would imagine some would be a bit disillusioned with the style played and the preference for the more physical players above the more technical. I can't think of too many of our players in recent years who have benefited too much from their involvement in England age group sides. Even Will Keane in the u17 was played out of position on the left for the tournament.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

So you're saying that with exactly the same players but swap Guardiola for Wenger and they'd be as successful as Barcelona? I'm afraid that's nonsense.

Of course its nonsense, that is why I haven't said anything of the sort.

Rather I am saying that under a Guardiola, Arsenal would play the system of football Barca use, which is organised pressing and organised defending as a team. Not become the current Barcelona part two.

In addition, with their current crop of players, under a Guardiola they would never have gone as long as Wenger has without a trophy of any kind. Because they wouldn't be as porous at the back or as mentally weak as they are as a team under Wenger.

Besides, its you who claimed Arsenal play in a similar fashion to Barcelona, not me.

Barcelona can only play the they do because of the players at their disposal.

That is not true at all. Their organised pressing style is all down to the manager rather than the players. Don't forget they had most of the same crop of players before he arrived and still didn't play like they do now.

 

[datura]

Of course its nonsense, that is why I haven't said anything of the sort.

Rather I am saying that under a Guardiola Arsenal would play the style of football Barca do, which is organised pressing and organised defending as a team. Not become the current Barcelona part two.

In addition, with their current crop of players, under a Guardiola they would never have gone as long as Wenger has without a trophy of any kind. Because they wouldn't be as porous at the back or as mentally weak as they are as a team under Wenger.

Besides, its you who claimed Arsenal play in a similar fashion to Barcelona, not me.

That is not true at all. Their organised pressing style is all down to the manager rather than the players. Don't forget they had most of the same crop of players before he arrived and still didn't play like they do now.

I do think Arsenal play a similar type of passing/possession game as Barcelona, they are just not as good at it as Barcelona as they have lesser players.

The Barca style isn't defined by the pressing, most people would be talking about the tiki-taka which is what I was referring to.

It seems strange that you are highlighting the pressing element?

 

[Siorac]

I do think Arsenal play a similar type of passing/possession game as Barcelona, they are just not as good at it as Barcelona as they have lesser players.

The Barca style isn't defined by the pressing, most people would be talking about the tiki-taka which is what I was referring to.

It seems strange that you are highlighting the pressing element?

Not strange at all, the pressing is crucial to their football. They defend from the front, trying to win the ball back as early as possible, eliminating any threat of a counter-attack. They hunt the ball in packs because their extreme ball retention allows them to rest with the ball so they don't have to expand to much energy in chasing it.

Arsenal don't do it and though their passing isn't as effective either because they do have lesser players, they leak goals on the break because they stand off opponents a lot more.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I do think Arsenal play a similar type of passing/possession game as Barcelona, they are just not as good at it as Barcelona as they have lesser players.

The Barca style isn't defined by the pressing, most people would be talking about the tiki-taka which is what I was referring to.

It seems strange that you are highlighting the pressing element?

It shouldn't be strange. Barca have played tika tika for years. It's only under Guardiola though that they've learned to press, hunt the ball down in packs and defend as 11 men with absolute efficiency, discipline and organisation. Arsenal don't play anything similar to that. In fact Arsenal's style is similar to Rijkaard's Barcelona. That is why their less talented group gets exposed so badly very often because they think they can 'out football' every team without taking care of their own defending and organisation.

I believe if Guardiola ever moved to another side, possessing players capable of playing possession based football, the current Barca system of play will also follow him there. Even though it wont possess Messi, or Iniesta and Xavi, it would still make such a team formidable to face.

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

There's no problem. The England age group selections have always been rather 'odd'.

There is a lot of politics at youth level. I was once told by a member of the England Youth coaching staff that they can't take too many players from the same club as they have to 'share' representative honours around.

If they use lot's of United players one year they tend not to do so the next.

It is NOT a meritocracy!

 

[Baby Faced Assassin]

Nice read this:

Inside FC Barcelona's football academy, churning out future Messis...for free | Mail Online

 

[RedThaiDevils#7]

I'm pretty sure that training 8 hrs a week will not differ much from the 5hr... Due to the fact that most of the skills, tecnique will come from their own styles of training when they get home...

You think Ronaldo/Messi became this good because they practiced 8 hrs a week ? They probably lived and breathed with a football 24hrs a day... Their best friends were probably footballs...

 

[phelans shorts]

I'm pretty sure that training 8 hrs a week will not differ much from the 5hr... Due to the fact that most of the skills, tecnique will come from their own styles of training when they get home...

You think Ronaldo/Messi became this good because they practiced 8 hrs a week ? They probably lived and breathed with a football 24hrs a day... Their best friends were probably footballs...

It's a huge difference, if they are training less time and playing more often alone there is more chance of them picking up bad habits that can't be trained out of them again, whereas training with coached and team mates means you soon correct such habits.

 

[RedThaiDevils#7]

Yes, but top players will not need to have those habits fixed...

If you want to reach the top, the players definitely have to sacrifice themselves to train and definitely a 8hr/5hr course per week is not enough.

Is it a surprise that most world class players were raised from the slums and had football as their only friend ?

If your talking about structure and philosophy, 3 hrs probably differ a lot but if you have your heart set and have the talent, I dont' think 3 hrs is the soul reason the academies are not producing as much talent as probably Barca...

If you really know Barca, they heavily invest on youth, they track all the players in the South American regions and its really easy for them as they do not have any work permit issues etc...

The lenth of training isn't the soul reason imo.

 

[Baby Faced Assassin]

I'm pretty sure that training 8 hrs a week will not differ much from the 5hr... Due to the fact that most of the skills, tecnique will come from their own styles of training when they get home...

You think Ronaldo/Messi became this good because they practiced 8 hrs a week ? They probably lived and breathed with a football 24hrs a day... Their best friends were probably footballs...

Hours are important but so is the quality and focus of the education. In Spain they focus on tactics, control, passing & technical ability. In England the focus is on strength, physique, speed, etc. English academies deprive their players of the tactical education.

Plus I read sometime ago (World Cup post-mortem) that England has 5000 odd UEFA certified coached while Spain & Germany both have 20,000 UEFA certified coaches available. English grassroots system is extremely weak compared to these countries.

The rules here also don't help. The 90-mile rule is an absolute farce. Also Barca & Real reserves get to play in the lower leagues which also helps them a lot. The FA need to change a lot if they ever want to see good technically advanced players come out of England ever. Till then the best hope for English talent to develop is to go abroad. English players with Rooney's level of technical ability need to be groomed technically & tactically in such academies abroad.

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

Hours are important but so is the quality and focus of the education. In Spain they focus on tactics, control, passing & technical ability. In England the focus is on strength, physique, speed, etc. English academies deprive their players of the tactical education.

Plus I read sometime ago (World Cup post-mortem) that England has 5000 odd UEFA certified coached while Spain & Germany both have 20,000 UEFA certified coaches available. English grassroots system is extremely weak compared to these countries.

The rules here also don't help. The 90-mile rule is an absolute farce. Also Barca & Real reserves get to play in the lower leagues which also helps them a lot. The FA need to change a lot if they ever want to see good technically advanced players come out of England ever. Till then the best hope for English talent to develop is to go abroad. English players with Rooney's level of technical ability need to be groomed technically & tactically in such academies abroad.

Not all Academies