Zidane Iqbal

Inigo Montoya

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So cool to see (at last) the talent pool of Indian and Middle Eastern descent kids being repped.

Just think how many British Indian lads there must be out there who never reached their level due to social barriers (whether barriers from their own culture, or within footy itself).

I'm neither Indian or Middle Eastern but it's just something I've thought about so many times growing up in England.
Where Indians are concerned, social barriers aren't preventing them from succeeding in sport. It's a bit simplistic to say that. For the % of the population playing cricket, Indians and Pakistanis have the highest representation and that includes white British and African-Caribbean kids. Now cricket is far more expensive in terms of equipment and club membership. It still is to a great extent a 'middle -class' sport. Football isn't far behind but there has been a reluctance on families' part to get their kids into football. Physical attribute have feck all to do with it. There have been Asian leagues for generations but not publicised. In fact an Indian lad once told me that scouts cam to watch Beckham when he was a kid in Chingford and overlooked an Asian kid who looked every bit as good. An inherent prejudice that they 'don't have the physique, or bottle etc' still exists. Cultural barriers do exist but being Indian myself, I'd say that a lot of Indian fathers I know tend to shy away from the 'football mentality,' and I can understand why. It takes a real dedication to want to make it in football and if a barrier is perceived or put up then Asian families will likely become more insular.

My son is into football big time. He's one of two who are of mixed heritage in his team..the other is half Caribbean. As much as I chat to other parents and as a teacher I get a certain amount of respect from the local community, I'm not embraced by all the parents. I'm still an outsider socially.
In a cricket club, I doubt very much that would happen.
 

Inigo Montoya

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Name that kid.
Name any sporting competitions this kid won, which made his every bit as good as Beckham.
Don't be a pratt!
Does it add credibility to the argument? I've met quite a few people who've been victims of racist attacks, I can't name any of them so obviously it didn't happen. The point is that there have been a lot of Asian kids who have held themselves back or been held back for a variety of reasons. Has there been a bit of racial stereotyping on the part of scouts? Yes. I did meet a West Ham scout who told me that he'd never been to the Asian leagues because he really didn't think it was worth it as there'd been no precedent and he had enough games to go to. I prefer the honest answer of a West Ham community coach I ment who told me that the Asian kids enrolled in his programme were good but not good enough for the Academy.

In fact at Ridgeway Rovers where Beckham played as a kid, he wasn't necessarily the most talented but he was unquestionably the most dedicated. I've met his dad enough times to know that. His coach told me that there have been more talented players through their ranks but none who made the best of their ability. He's tee total, used to go home early from functions so he'd be ready to train,never go clubbing etc. His running ability and stamina were top class at school.He made the absolute best of his talent which is remarkable
 

dal

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I think i couldn't make myself clear... I meant, it seems that coaches here believe south asians are too weak to play football or something because they are clearly very underrepresented in this particular sport in UK.
I think it’s another stereotype, I played with black, white, Indian and Chinese at youth level and at school and I saw little difference in terms of stamina, speed and technique between the races.

For some reason Asians got labelled as weak and blacks were labelled as “strong”. I’ve heard of many coaches profiling Asians through ignorance and of course there the classic “his parents won’t support him in football”.

The one thing that bugs me and in going slightly off tangent here but I never here black players being labelled as smart or clever and it’s almost as if commentators have a mental block in saying it.

Anyway if the game was judged on a players attributes rather than race or connections then we’d be moving forward nicely.
 

Mark Pawelek

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Don't be a pratt!
Does it add credibility to the argument? I've met quite a few people who've been victims of racist attacks, I can't name any of them so obviously it didn't happen. The point is that there have been a lot of Asian kids who have held themselves back or been held back for a variety of reasons. Has there been a bit of racial stereotyping on the part of scouts? Yes. I did meet a West Ham scout who told me that he'd never been to the Asian leagues because he really didn't think it was worth it as there'd been no precedent and he had enough games to go to. I prefer the honest answer of a West Ham community coach I ment who told me that the Asian kids enrolled in his programme were good but not good enough for the Academy.

In fact at Ridgeway Rovers where Beckham played as a kid, he wasn't necessarily the most talented but he was unquestionably the most dedicated. I've met his dad enough times to know that. His coach told me that there have been more talented players through their ranks but none who made the best of their ability. He's tee total, used to go home early from functions so he'd be ready to train,never go clubbing etc. His running ability and stamina were top class at school.He made the absolute best of his talent which is remarkable
The person who made the claim "X was better than Beckham" wasn't complaining about being a victim of a racist attack. So why did you bring random racist violence into this conversation? Since you mention it, I've been the victim of a violet racist attack by a stranger I never met before. I'm only bringing it up because you did.

I seriously doubt United overlooked any player better than Beckham because he signed for us when he was 14 and there couldn't have been many players in UK who were even at Beckham's level at the time. I's really not outrageous for me to ask who this mystery Asian-descended player X is. I doubt player X ever existed.
 

TwoSheds

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It was an interesting debate, no one was obsessing.
I beg to differ. Deciding which arbitrary sweeping generalisations we're going to apply to people from the biggest continent on earth is neither interesting nor appropriate for the youth forum.
 

Inigo Montoya

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The person who made the claim "X was better than Beckham" wasn't complaining about being a victim of a racist attack. So why did you bring random racist violence into this conversation? Since you mention it, I've been the victim of a violet racist attack by a stranger I never met before. I'm only bringing it up because you did.

I seriously doubt United overlooked any player better than Beckham because he signed for us when he was 14 and there couldn't have been many players in UK who were even at Beckham's level at the time. I's really not outrageous for me to ask who this mystery Asian-descended player X is. I doubt player X ever existed.
Obviously I was lying eh? If it makes you secure to believe that greater talents than Beckham have ever existed then feel free.
I’ll say this. I lived in Chingford for years. As a lifelong Utd fan I was interested in the kid so did a lot of research. He lived walking distance from my house and I met his dad Ted numerous times. We chatted about a lot of things football related including things like talent,dedication etc. I’d say I know a hell of a lot more than you ever will and stuff that I’d never reveal on here. Like I said, he wasn’t even the most talented kid at Ridgeway Rovers. Let’s leave it at that
 

Inigo Montoya

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I beg to differ. Deciding which arbitrary sweeping generalisations we're going to apply to people from the biggest continent on earth is neither interesting nor appropriate for the youth forum.
So you have an opinion and are willing to share it eh? Double standards not you
 

TwoSheds

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So you have an opinion and are willing to share it eh? Double standards not you
My opinion is I'm looking forward to seeing how Zidane Iqbal develops and it's great that there are people who are excited to see themselves represented at Manchester United in some way by his progress.
 

Inigo Montoya

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My opinion is I'm looking forward to seeing how Zidane Iqbal develops and it's great that there are people who are excited to see themselves represented at Manchester United in some way by his progress.
And there are others who look to be inspired by his heritage. Indians, Pakistanis and others of Asian heritage have longed for a player who can represent them at Utd. There’s a lot to be excited by that, shame you can’t see it.
 

TwoSheds

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And there are others who look to be inspired by his heritage. Indians, Pakistanis and others of Asian heritage have longed for a player who can represent them at Utd. There’s a lot to be excited by that, shame you can’t see it.
That's exactly what I just said...
 

the chameleon

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He reminds of Januzaj / Gribbin at that level. Two players I was extremely hopeful would become key players for us. Both had talent but the mentality let them down. Being of South Asian descent, would love to see this guy make it here. What is his attitude / mentality like?
 

Mark Pawelek

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I questioned what seemed to be an urban legend. Namely
In fact an Indian lad once told me that scouts cam to watch Beckham when he was a kid in Chingford and overlooked an Asian kid who looked every bit as good.
Now you're saying I think you're lying! No. I think you're repeating urban legends with no evidence to back it up. I don't doubt you met someone who told you he knew an Asian descended kid who was better than Beckham. You're repeating hearsay. You expect me to take this hearsay as literal truth. Do you think I was born yesterday?
 

Rozay

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I’ve mentioned before, but he’s always one I think the club will ‘prioritise’ if he looks to have any chance of making it - largely for some of the reasons discussed in the last couple of pages. From a marketability perspective, his potential is huge. British Asians, or ‘South Asians’ anywhere else for that matter, as has been discussed at length, do not typically feature at top level football. To potentially have a key player at the most famous club in the land would be huge. He could be an icon.

And if that wasn’t enough, his name is also Zidane. Certainly won’t be lost on the club as an added bonus.
 

Dante

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Asian people suffer as much racism as Black people in this country. But it manifests itself differently in different areas of society. Obviously, there are a lot of overlaps. But the most pointed difference is in the institutional treatment of Black people as intellectually inferior, but of Asian people as morally/culturally hostile. Hence the question about allegiance being so dodgy.

As much as I support BLM in football, English football won't be able to claim it's tackled racism effectively until it also looks at racism faced by Asian footballers. Only kids from that background can start to breakthrough in numbers, can the FA say that racism has actually been kicked out of football.
 
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TwoSheds

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Etzaz Hussain. Spent a couple of seasons in wilderness but is an integral player for Molde these days.
That's good to hear, what position did he end up in, is he still a left winger?
 

TwoSheds

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DM for most parts. A month ago he was somehow one of the top scorers in the league scoring from every shot :lol:
Haha, the new John O'Shea! Does anyone remember that season Jonno had 6 shots and 5 goals or something? :lol:
 

Adnan

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Let's see him feature in the 18s regularly first.

Zidane, Isak and Svidersky could be the midfield 3 possibly in the new season.
 

Drainy

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Asian people suffer as much racism as Black people in this country. But it manifests itself differently in different areas of society. Obviously, there are a lot of overlaps. But the most pointed difference is in the institutional treatment of Black people as intellectually inferior, but of Asian people as morally/culturally hostile. Hence the question about allegiance being so dodgy.

As much as I support BLM in football, English football won't be able to claim it's tackled racism effectively until it also looks at racism faced by Asian footballers. Only kids from that background can start to breakthrough in numbers, can the FA say that racism has actually been kicked out of football.
Yeah recently I think Joe Hart mentioned that goalkeeping coaches have a subconscious bias against black goalkeepers. Can't remember where I saw it though.
 

Prodigal7

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Asian people suffer as much racism as Black people in this country. But it manifests itself differently in different areas of society. Obviously, there are a lot of overlaps. But the most pointed difference is in the institutional treatment of Black people as intellectually inferior, but of Asian people as morally/culturally hostile. Hence the question about allegiance being so dodgy.

As much as I support BLM in football, English football won't be able to claim it's tackled racism effectively until it also looks at racism faced by Asian footballers. Only kids from that background can start to breakthrough in numbers, can the FA say that racism has actually been kicked out of football.
It amazes me how such an extreme organisation has become the go to for racial equality movements. I don’t think many people realise that BLMs stated aim is to defund the police and abolish capitalism.

Surely there’s a less anarchistic organisation the PL could have found to represent racial equality
 

Inigo Montoya

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It amazes me how such an extreme organisation has become the go to for racial equality movements. I don’t think many people realise that BLMs stated aim is to defund the police and abolish capitalism.

Surely there’s a less anarchistic organisation the PL could have found to represent racial equality
But it has become all embracing, and you do have to question how and why? Especially when there has been Kick It Out working for years to make the sport fully inclusive, and that's just one that I can think of.
 

sammsky1

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Don't be a pratt!
Does it add credibility to the argument? I've met quite a few people who've been victims of racist attacks, I can't name any of them so obviously it didn't happen. The point is that there have been a lot of Asian kids who have held themselves back or been held back for a variety of reasons. Has there been a bit of racial stereotyping on the part of scouts? Yes. I did meet a West Ham scout who told me that he'd never been to the Asian leagues because he really didn't think it was worth it as there'd been no precedent and he had enough games to go to. I prefer the honest answer of a West Ham community coach I ment who told me that the Asian kids enrolled in his programme were good but not good enough for the Academy.

In fact at Ridgeway Rovers where Beckham played as a kid, he wasn't necessarily the most talented but he was unquestionably the most dedicated. I've met his dad enough times to know that. His coach told me that there have been more talented players through their ranks but none who made the best of their ability. He's tee total, used to go home early from functions so he'd be ready to train,never go clubbing etc. His running ability and stamina were top class at school.He made the absolute best of his talent which is remarkable
Very interesting and revealing post. Thanks for sharing
 

Rozay

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Yeah recently I think Joe Hart mentioned that goalkeeping coaches have a subconscious bias against black goalkeepers. Can't remember where I saw it though.
On his podcast. He said that growing up, there was always a saying of ‘never trust a black goalkeeper’.
 

Alfie092

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From the clips I have seen he looks technically sound. Anyone seen him play on a regular basis this season? What are the chances of him potentially breaking into the first team or is he one of those players who will have a half decent career elsewhere by the time he hits 21/22?
 

spontaneus1

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From the clips I have seen he looks technically sound. Anyone seen him play on a regular basis this season? What are the chances of him potentially breaking into the first team or is he one of those players who will have a half decent career elsewhere by the time he hits 21/22?
Will have a career in football, just not at United though.
 

Dante

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If British Asians can start making their way into English football, that will be the true measure of success for the anti-racism programs currently in place.

For 7% of the population, their representation is pitiful. Hopefully Iqbal makes it and becomes the first of many.
 

Bertie Wooster

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From the clips I have seen he looks technically sound. Anyone seen him play on a regular basis this season? What are the chances of him potentially breaking into the first team or is he one of those players who will have a half decent career elsewhere by the time he hits 21/22?
From what I've seen of him he has decent technique and footwork on the ball, but he plays at a slow tempo, lacks pace, and doesn't offer a great deal of either attacking end product or defensive work.

Given what he lacks, I doubt he'll make it at United or the top level. I wasn't sure he'd get a professional deal, but I think the extra focus on him being a rare British Asian player in the academy may have tipped the balance there?
 

AltiUn

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From what I've seen of him he has decent technique and footwork on the ball, but he plays at a slow tempo, lacks pace, and doesn't offer a great deal of either attacking end product or defensive work.

Given what he lacks, I doubt he'll make it at United or the top level. I wasn't sure he'd get a professional deal, but I think the extra focus on him being a rare British Asian player in the academy may have tipped the balance there?
Think you're underselling his technique a bit there, he's very technically gifted.
 

luke511

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If British Asians can start making their way into English football, that will be the true measure of success for the anti-racism programs currently in place.

For 7% of the population, their representation is pitiful. Hopefully Iqbal makes it and becomes the first of many.
Do you think the lack of British-Asian talent in top flight football is down to racism?