Zidane "Today's football is more physical, back in my days you could make up for a lack of physicality with technique, nowadays it's complicated"

[BerryBerryShrew]

But that was apparent during his career too, when he’d sometimes look leggy in-season, before scaling the heights come the business end of it.

I always got the impression that Zizou only turned it on when he felt like it - it was more of a mental issue rather than a physical one I reckon.

 

[jm99]

I feel like this kind of quote can just be said for any generation, football keeps changing and there is no doubt players are fitter, faster and the average player is more technical. In 5 years you will be able to say the same about today and in 10 years today's football will likely seem a bit slow.

While i do definitely agree with this, i don't think we'll see the same advances as we have over the last two decades. Things like data science, it's because computers can collate and analyse data on a scale far greater than humans you're not going to get that same kind of advances again. Players had bad diets and still drank and smoked in the 90s, again you're not going to be able to advance much from this point in terms of that. Coaching will improve and players likely will naturally get a bit fitter but a lot of the advances that have happened aren't going to be able to happen again at the same kind of scale

 

[Boycott]

Zidane may not be as otherworldly today if he was a player because of physical differences in the speed of matches. A highly rated player today may have been nothing special 25 years ago likewise because he'd look like a headless chicken running around on his own.

But I think the bigger point of why a Zidane may not be as highly rated now is simply because his generation and all the past generations were never as scrutinised to the level of today's players with 24/7 access to matches live, rewatching matches at your will, commentary from professionals and armchair punditry from fans all around the world. If Zidane had a bad game where his touch was off and he kept losing his man defensively today to the point his counterpart scored a crucial goal you'd be sure it would be clipped and analysed endlessly about his laziness or lack of defensive smarts. Ronaldinho today would not be the clear Balon d'or winner today after a season where he scored less than 15 goals. In today's game that season may be the equivalent of 25 goals which is a different matter but even then it would not be undisputed as it felt then. Because then someone like Henry would have 40 goals in a season and he never won the award.

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

I think the thing to remember is that pressure being applied to players in possession is infinitely greater today than it was in the 80's/90's. While the requirement for physical attributes is necessary for the pressing element of the game, the requirement for technical attributes is increased also as you have to be able to make decisions and control/manipulate/pass the ball far quicker than you did in Zizou's heyday.

What I'm driving at is that there is a belief (expressed by some posters in this thread) that footballers skillsets have regressed and they are now just mundane pieces on a chessboard that is controlled by coaches/managers, whereas in reality they are more technically accomplished today than they ever were previously. You take Lothar Matthaus and throw him into the game today, and he would not be able to cope in any way- not just physically. It would be simply alien to him to have to make split second decisions every time you get the ball and would take him many years to adapt to that alone- let alone the newer physical demands out of possession.

 

[jm99]

I think the thing to remember is that pressure being applied to players in possession is infinitely greater today than it was in the 80's/90's. While the requirement for physical attributes is necessary for the pressing element of the game, the requirement for technical attributes is increased also as you have to be able to make decisions and control/manipulate/pass the ball far quicker than you did in Zizou's heyday.

What I'm driving at is that there is a belief (expressed by some posters in this thread) that footballers skillsets have regressed and they are now just mundane pieces on a chessboard that is controlled by coaches/managers, whereas in reality they are more technically accomplished today than they ever were previously. You take Lothar Matthaus and throw him into the game today, and he would not be able to cope in any way- not just physically. It would be simply alien to him to have to make split second decisions every time you get the ball and would take him many years to adapt to that alone- let alone the newer physical demands out of possession.

Yeah this is what I've been trying to say, that the speed of the game ans the ability to press means that players who took time on the ball to pick a pass wouldn't have that same luxury, and simply saying give them modern levels of physical attributes and they could cope isn't that easy, the game has changed so much, players like Zidane and riquelme would be tactical nightmares to fit into modern teams that can't carry passengers particularly in midifeld

 

[jeff_goldblum]

Obviously the definition of a foul has shifted to stop people just plain booting and elbowing each other, but that doesn't mean the game is less physical, per se. Advances in fitness, conditioning, speed etc. mean when you take a hit, it's going to be a lot harder than it would have been in the old days.

I'd wager the forces generated by a modern player in a "clean" tackle would be a shock to the tough men of football in the 80s and 90s.

 

[Zehner]

I think he's rather referring to the recovery part not the on pitch athleticism. Modern football is incredible demanding specifically because you have to go the full distance every 3-4 days at a top club. Zidane's physique is generally underrated, he was strong and almost impossible to dispossess when he shielded the ball.

But these days, you have to work harder against the ball. I think you need to be blessed with a very stress resilient body to cope with that and not be sidelined by injuries all the time. I also believe this is the reason why players retire in their mid to late 30s. They could probably deliver good performances every 7 days or maybe even every 14 days but not every 3 anymore. I remember for instance Ribery and Robben looking much better players at 35 than Coman and Douglas Costa in their early 20s but you couldn't rely on them anymore.

 

[Gio]

I think the thing to remember is that pressure being applied to players in possession is infinitely greater today than it was in the 80's/90's. While the requirement for physical attributes is necessary for the pressing element of the game, the requirement for technical attributes is increased also as you have to be able to make decisions and control/manipulate/pass the ball far quicker than you did in Zizou's heyday.

What I'm driving at is that there is a belief (expressed by some posters in this thread) that footballers skillsets have regressed and they are now just mundane pieces on a chessboard that is controlled by coaches/managers, whereas in reality they are more technically accomplished today than they ever were previously. You take Lothar Matthaus and throw him into the game today, and he would not be able to cope in any way- not just physically. It would be simply alien to him to have to make split second decisions every time you get the ball and would take him many years to adapt to that alone- let alone the newer physical demands out of possession.

I agree with your wider point here around the pressure in possesion improving the overall technical standard. However, most of the impact has been on clunky old-school defenders and goalkeepers who would lack the ability to retain the ball under new pressure.

But Matthaus - seriously? The greatest box-to-box midfielder of all time is going to struggle with the physical demands of the modern game? If you take a list of the top 10 midfielders of the last decade, Matthaus is quicker, stronger, more athletic and boasted greater stamina than any of them. He was great despite not being a playmaker who could orchestrate the play. His game was all about his off the ball impact, his brilliance in transitions, and his goalscoring from midfield. He never relied on circulating 100 passes a game to decide matches. On one hand, I don't think he'd be the most natural fit for a Pep team (although he shares De Bruyne's ability from range), on the other he could be even more impactful surging past the ball-playing midgets who populate elite midfields in the modern game.

Zidane may not be as otherworldly today if he was a player because of physical differences in the speed of matches. A highly rated player today may have been nothing special 25 years ago likewise because he'd look like a headless chicken running around on his own.

But I think the bigger point of why a Zidane may not be as highly rated now is simply because his generation and all the past generations were never as scrutinised to the level of today's players with 24/7 access to matches live, rewatching matches at your will, commentary from professionals and armchair punditry from fans all around the world. If Zidane had a bad game where his touch was off and he kept losing his man defensively today to the point his counterpart scored a crucial goal you'd be sure it would be clipped and analysed endlessly about his laziness or lack of defensive smarts. Ronaldinho today would not be the clear Balon d'or winner today after a season where he scored less than 15 goals. In today's game that season may be the equivalent of 25 goals which is a different matter but even then it would not be undisputed as it felt then. Because then someone like Henry would have 40 goals in a season and he never won the award.

Does that not work both ways? More scrutiny yes - but equally more exposure and celebration of the good stuff the great players are doing every week?

 

[ThatsGreat]

If he means physicality in terms of endurance, then I agree with him. If he means it terms of brute strength then I dont.

 

[tomaldinho1]

While i do definitely agree with this, i don't think we'll see the same advances as we have over the last two decades. Things like data science, it's because computers can collate and analyse data on a scale far greater than humans you're not going to get that same kind of advances again. Players had bad diets and still drank and smoked in the 90s, again you're not going to be able to advance much from this point in terms of that. Coaching will improve and players likely will naturally get a bit fitter but a lot of the advances that have happened aren't going to be able to happen again at the same kind of scale

I'm not so sure, that's probably what each generation thinks because we don't know what's coming in the future.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

If he means physicality in terms of endurance, then I agree with him. If he means it terms of brute strength then I dont.

Judging by how he worded it in French he clearly means the ability to put in a shift twice a week and be able to recover physically after every game to be 100% ready to do it again on the next week

 

[ThatsGreat]

Judging by how he worded it in French he clearly means the ability to put in a shift twice a week and be able to recover physically after every game to be 100% ready to do it again on the next week

That makes sense.

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

Interestingly Zidane was accommodated for the same reasons during his career. Lippi played a 4-3-3 which followed the same blueprint in midfield and attack as Klopp has run with over the last decade. With Zidane in the mix, he dropped an attacker and played a 4-3-1-2. France accommodated him in a similar way, adopting a 4-3-2-1 shape for 1998 where everyone worked (even Zidane). I don't think he ever operated in a traditional flat 4-4-2. It only really became imbalanced at Real in the 2000s when they started loading up with Galacticos, which is no different really to where PSG have come unstuck in recent years. The importance of midfield and pressing from the front are obviously big parts of the modern game, but they were key in the 1990s in Serie A and international football and Zidane's career demonstrates that.

Today I imagine Zidane would enjoy playing for a superclub. He'd be higher up the park, more able to decide league games, instead of bogged down in midfield battles around the centre circle. He'd have wide players on both sides to hit that would also open up space for him in a way he never consistently benefited from during his own career. They'd have the squad depth to rotate him out for a break every few weeks.

Lippi has some interesting comments on pressing. One of the more blunt was something along the lines of "everybody presses nowadays" when discussing italian football. 90s Italian football was heavily influenced by Sacchi's Milan and the way the 88 ussr team had put their national team out of the Euro. More organised styles of pressing than " get out there and give 'em no space lads" was quite widely understood as a concept by the 90s, it just didn't proliferate to the point across leagues of being a dominant foundational thing because football was less globalised. I saw a thread on the rec.sport.soccer discussion group from about 98/99 or so, where there was debate about Italian vs Spanish league: the idea that one big tactical reason the Italians had been better over the decade was because they had more clubs that were good at pressing intelligently was quite prominent.

The bar is higher today than in the past.

In the 90s you only needed to be good enough technically. Today, you need to be good technically AND athletically. Not every technician has the capacity to do the latter, even when they try their best. Just look at some of some of the kids who graduated from our academy and failed to break into top level football despite working hard, and having more talent than bigger and stronger colleagues. Or maybe even the likes of VdB and Kagawa if you want to look at senior players.

This is too extreme. Every generation had its dividing line between players that were dedicated enough overall athletes with the necessary balance of physical and technical qualities, and the "he was a gifted natural footballer but just didn't live the lifestyle/have the athleticism" types. By the latter i don't mean high level players that eventually wasted potential by being ill-disciplined, just people that ended up playing in their countries lower-tiers because of their lifestyle/athletic limitations.

The idea that in any era until recently, you just had to hit a certain bar for technique and never neeeded to also reach a certain level of athleticism/fitness for top level football is just not true. The bar for standard of average player fitness had shifted up another few notches this century, and the game had got faster, but it's extracting that last few percent. Not some huge jump forward where people that were efficient, dedicated nutrition savvy trainers 30-40 years ago wouldn't be able to jump quickly into cutting edge, further refined training regimes and quickly benefit from them if you transplanted them. getting more than fit enough than you'll ever need to play a good work-rate 90 minutes, often twice a week is not something that only became possible with recent advances in dietary/training knowledge. tactics and styles no longer fitting in for older players, so they have to find a new niche or lower(possibly higher too) level is likely to be a far bigger problem.

As an aside, i find it interesting how much more extreme a lot of football fans are on thinking how big the potential individual gaps in fitness are between decades, and how difficult it would be to translate physically from era to era, compared to another heavily skill based, yet athletically demanding sport like Boxing. Every knowledgeable boxing fan knows just as well that dietary/training knowledge is more refined and efficient now than it was during the 15 round era, same as with any other sport. Though they don't tend to delude themselves that every current athlete is an impregnable temple of commitment with no bad habits at all..You get plenty of debate on what era were better overall, or how far back was "too primitive technically" (usually somewhere pre-WW2) but not many that have watched enough footage of all of the post-war decades will argue that the average top ten contender level fighter of past two decades is oviously fitter, in relation to what is practical for the rules of the sport. You would be widely mocked if you suggested that someone like Monzon (despite his smoking and drinking) Hagler or Ali could not cope with the pace of current boxing with it's more refined sports science.

Despite no doubt being on more technically/time efficient training regime than a Sugar Ray Robinson, Duran, Monzon or whatever top ten contender of those era...outputs remain on the same levels and plenty of fighters still gas out in the late rounds (despite it only being 12 ) despite a vastly less intense schedule than 90% of pre-70s fighters. Those older guys were often fighting 5-10 fights a month, between 10-15 rounds each fight at the same pace of current fights. basically, on a purely efficiency for sporting rules basis, being able to get yourself more than fit enough for 15 rounds and multiple fights a month was already well within the grasp of feckin 30s/40s standard of diet/training knowledge. We're talking about a level of physical output much more gruelling than playing two games of football a week, easily doable with enough individual commitment into your late 20s/mid 30s, despite cruder scientific support from personal trainers/data analysts etc..

obviously no two different sports disciplines are fully comparable fitness-wise, and with football being a team sport it was easier to raise the bar up another few small notches for the overall average standard. It was also much less tactically mature/integrated than a more easily defined (in terms of what stuff works and what definitely doesn't) individual sport...but still, fitness is fitness at the end of the day and there's only so much of a certain type you need for any overtly skill based sport where the rules are broadly staying the same; there are ceilings until training for them becomes a mature art for long periods of time. It's very possible that football, at least in the richer leagues, has now hit that ceiling for a long time with its widespread embracing of cutting edge training and dietary support, over the last few decades.

Ex-players that are managers or work in media tend to be more humble and supportive of any advances they see, and they understand that even a small nudge forward can make the difference at elite level. However i've little doubt that for every older player that would really struggle physically (they would likely be no specimen in their own era, or too reliant on an athletic advantage) there would be four or five with a high enough existing level of fitness/athletic capacity to just get on with it after an adaption period - and some gym rat/athletically gifted players that were probably just as fit, or even more so than the average current player, without needing the extra edges of a 2020's perfectly calibrated diet/training regime to get to that level.

 

[Red in STL]

So basically what a lot of people are saying is that the stars of 20-30 years ago would be less likely to succeed if starting out today - personally I think that's bollocks for the vast majority

 

[Brightonian]

Lot of people missing that what he is really talking about is the physical demands of a full season. Recovery, essentially.

He's not really talking about how strong or fast players are/were.

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

I agree with your wider point here around the pressure in possesion improving the overall technical standard. However, most of the impact has been on clunky old-school defenders and goalkeepers who would lack the ability to retain the ball under new pressure.

But Matthaus - seriously? The greatest box-to-box midfielder of all time is going to struggle with the physical demands of the modern game? If you take a list of the top 10 midfielders of the last decade, Matthaus is quicker, stronger, more athletic and boasted greater stamina than any of them. He was great despite not being a playmaker who could orchestrate the play. His game was all about his off the ball impact, his brilliance in transitions, and his goalscoring from midfield. He never relied on circulating 100 passes a game to decide matches. On one hand, I don't think he'd be the most natural fit for a Pep team (although he shares De Bruyne's ability from range), on the other he could be even more impactful surging past the ball-playing midgets who populate elite midfields in the modern game.

I think we're disagreeing a bit here. I wasn't throwing Matthaus' name out there as an example of a guy who I don't really rate: I was instead using him because of the very things that you listed. In spite of his brilliance, it would take him years to adapt to modern football. He was athletic....for his era. His decision making was excellent....at a time where he had an awful lot more time on the ball to make his decision. His touch was superb....at a time where any slight loose touch was not immediately pounced upon by a rabid oppo midfielder.

80's/90's football might as well be a different sport to the 2023 game.

 

[Rozay]

Yep, artistry is going out of football I think. I think this has happened for a number of reasons. No doubt the PL has led the transition to teams ultimately trying to field teams of cyborgs - 6ft+, powerful, hard running, high stamina players. There are of course exceptions to this, but almost every successful one had to do so by overcoming a stigma that they ‘lacked the physicality to play in the PL’.

Another reason, I think, is Barcelona. I think they took playing technical football to such an unreachable level for most that the only way to break that era was to try to outfight them. Nobody could match them for football, yet top teams still wanted to be successful, and I feel they started getting constructed more in a way to win by physical dominance.

I mean, current football has almost completely annexed the most artistic player on the team in the #10, and he has been replaced by goalscoring wingers (with high speed to get behind defences) and an additional #8.

Neymar is the last of a dying breed in football as a pure entertainer.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Do we even still have outfield players at the top level who’d smoke and drink regularly during the season? Not many I can think of, back in the day 20 years ago it wasn’t so shocking

Arturo Vidal was a notorious party animal and he still had the longevity to play in top European leagues well into his thirties. Verratti is a smoker, and Brozovic seems to smoke and drink quite a bit while still having one of the best engines in football.

Spoiler: Treating himself to a packet of cigs hours before Croatia vs Spain in Euro 2020

I dunno. I'm sure that there aren't too many Neil Ruddocks out there today routinely skulling 15 pints after a match, but I suspect that the ascetic nature of modern players is overblown a bit.

 

[reelworld]

I always got the impression that Zizou only turned it on when he felt like it - it was more of a mental issue rather than a physical one I reckon.

my friends who supported Juve main complaint during his years there was this. There were matches where he just walked it and there are matches where he just turns it on and absolutely dominates

 

[Spaghetti]

He struggled when he played, from what I remember.

He’d be screwed now.

He is massively overrated anyway. He played in a time where 95% of his matches would be covered by 2-3 minutes on MOTD, which would show his couple of moments of brilliance. Over 90m he wasn’t that special, hence his lack of recognition for England.

 

[Gio]

Lippi has some interesting comments on pressing. One of the more blunt was something along the lines of "everybody presses nowadays" when discussing italian football. 90s Italian football was heavily influenced by Sacchi's Milan and the way the 88 ussr team had put their national team out of the Euro. More organised styles of pressing than " get out there and give 'em no space lads" was quite widely understood as a concept by the 90s, it just didn't proliferate to the point across leagues of being a dominant foundational thing because football was less globalised. I saw a thread on the rec.sport.soccer discussion group from about 98/99 or so, where there was debate about Italian vs Spanish league: the idea that one big tactical reason the Italians had been better over the decade was because they had more clubs that were good at pressing intelligently was quite prominent.

Here's an article from 1998 focusing on Juventus' approach to physical preparation:

THE household names at Juventus trip off the tongue: Alessandro Del Piero, Zinedine Zidane, Didier Deschamps, Marcello Lippi. But the man known as the Preparator, Gianpietro Ventrone, has played an equally influential role in the Italian club's stunning success.

Ventrone is Juventus's physical "preparator" whose revolutionary training methods fire the finely tuned, built-to-last, engine room of this remarkable side who on Wednesday contest their third consecutive European Cup final, against Real Madrid in Amsterdam. One fellow fitness expert allowed to witness this intense regime is Peter Edwards, formerly with Nottingham Forest and Manchester City, who spent 10 days with Juve earlier this year watching their physical preparation.

He has been studying Italian fitness and conditioning methods since 1990, but even he was surprised by Ventrone's methods. "He is using a unique system compared to most Italian clubs," he says. "Scientifically, he has left nothing to chance because everything is charted on a computer. The equipment is phenomenal. Individual players have their own high technology gear with each piece attached to a computer so every player can be assessed at any given second of his programme.


"The first-team squad are constantly monitored for power, speed, stamina and flexibility. Their blood is also checked every 15 days to test for any abnormalities so they can be rectified immediately.

"If an English club plays three matches in a week they will usually give the players at least one and probably two whole days off that week. That just doesn't happen at Juventus. When I was there they played three big matches, against Milan, Lazio and Monaco. Ventrone was not afraid to work the players hard the day after the Milan game even though they were due to play Monaco three days later.

"When I asked them, they said it wasn't a problem for them to play that frequently and train as well. They showed few signs of tiredness in those matches. I thought they could have kept up that level of intensity for at least another 20 to 30 minutes in all three games."

Not surprisingly players who are reaping such benefits are happy to co- operate with Ventrone - even if their routine would have the average British player begging for mercy. "It's not a chore for the players," Edwards says. "The atmosphere in the training ground is positive and happy. They enjoy the training because they know the benefits it brings. Del Piero admitted he didn't know how he'd survive without it. There's no such thing as a day off for Juventus players. They train twice a day, morning and afternoon. They start at 9am and are handed their day's training menu so each player knows exactly what is required of him."

Rest and recovery programmes are built in. Ventrone is supported by his No 2 "preparator", Antonio Pintos, who specialises in aerobics, four masseurs, two doctors, two physiotherapists, one osteopath and an electro- cardiologist. The training camp is conducted like a top-secret operation, according to Edwards. "There is an armed fortress mentality about the place with guards everywhere."

One Premiership manager has already tried to emulate the Italian methods and with no small success. Arsene Wenger has been happy to reveal that Arsenal's success this season is due in part to the module system of training which originated in France but was brought to prominence by the success of Parma in the early 1990s under the coach Nevis Scala and "preparator" Ivan Carminati,who are now at Borussia Dortmund.

"I'm not advocating a wholesale change to Italian methods," insists Edwards. "What I am saying is that British clubs need to develop the areas of their training and take from it what will benefit our game."

English players would not enjoy losing the chance to hone their golf skills. Edwards recalls how one of the first things he did on his arrival at the camp was to ask the Juventus players their golfing handicap. "What's a handicap?" said Del Piero.

That was the standard at the top of Europe in the mid-1990s. There is very little if anything that modern clubs will be doing that doesn't look similar to what Juventus and Milan were running with back then.

 

[Steffa Barnesa]

Love that Le Tisser was one of the first names on peoples' minds. I remember hearing him talk about how he struggled in training after easting a McDonald's egg mcmuffin, and the physio told him to not eat that before training. Not to cut it out - just don't eat it before training. Different times!

One of the biggest shames of the modern game is that those special number 10s, ie the afformentioned Riquelme, suffer. Guys like James Rodriguez and Mesut Ozil, who have done better at international level, haven't reached the heights they would've two decades ago, while inferior talents technically occupy their places in the top teams.

This kind of evolution happens though. While the golden age of football for me was and always probably will be the 90s and 2000s - especially in England and it was still a mix of the more unprofessional old days and the foreign-influenced new days - I realise that might not actually be the case. But it certainly seems so, even though I watched the Euro '92 final they showed on TV recently, and Schmeichel just kicked the ball upfield every time he had hold of it. Was striking how dated that looked.

 

[FrankFoot]

Compare a list of the best attacking players from 2005 to now. Footballers are becoming robots. There’s barely anyone I would pay to watch in the modern game. Managers are too obsessed with control, playing into the opposition area, cut backs and tap ins. I blame Pep.

I’ve long wondered how a fullback like Irwin would have fared in todays game where the position requires you to essentially be a track athlete. Kyle Walker being the prime example of athleticism over footballing ability in this regard.

I miss the classic magicians in football like Zidane, Baggio,Laudrup,R9, etc.

Now we have KDB, he is a very effective top player, but I wouldn't pay a ticket to watch him. He is robotic as hell.

 

[FrankFoot]

Physicality is more important - very few teams carry anyone who can’t press for example and run 10+ km a game. But is the game the better for it? Feels there is a lot less space for a number 10 than there was and the game is a worse spectacle. A game where a Zidane or Riquelme can’t flourish is not a better game.

Indeed.

The problem is people are obsessed with stats nowadays, it's unbearable.

Aside from Modric and Neymar, I don't see any other player I'd pay a ticket to watch, no more Zidanes, Laudrups, Baggios, Riquelmes, R9, Bergkamps, Scholes, Ronaldinhos, etc. The last player of this kind was Iniesta.

KDB is the top midfielder now, and I wouldn't pay a ticket to watch him, he is super effective and all that, but looks very robotic, i look at him play, and don't feel like buying his t-shirt the way I did with Zidane,R9, Laudrup, etc

 

[FrankFoot]

I think he's rather referring to the recovery part not the on pitch athleticism. Modern football is incredible demanding specifically because you have to go the full distance every 3-4 days at a top club. Zidane's physique is generally underrated, he was strong and almost impossible to dispossess when he shielded the ball.

But these days, you have to work harder against the ball. I think you need to be blessed with a very stress resilient body to cope with that and not be sidelined by injuries all the time. I also believe this is the reason why players retire in their mid to late 30s. They could probably deliver good performances every 7 days or maybe even every 14 days but not every 3 anymore. I remember for instance Ribery and Robben looking much better players at 35 than Coman and Douglas Costa in their early 20s but you couldn't rely on them anymore.

Problem is also that modern tactics take the flair out of the players.

If you take the flair out of Zidane, Laudrup,Baggios, Riquelme, etc you end up with something like KDB, a super effective and top player that doesn't have much flair in his game, and can look very robotic at times.

 

[jm99]

Indeed.

The problem is people are obsessed with stats nowadays, it's unbearable.

Aside from Modric and Neymar, I don't see any other player I'd pay a ticket to watch, no more Zidanes, Laudrups, Baggios, Riquelmes, R9, Bergkamps, Scholes, Ronaldinhos, etc. The last player of this kind was Iniesta.

KDB is the top midfielder now, and I wouldn't pay a ticket to watch him, he is super effective and all that, but looks very robotic, i look at him play, and don't feel like buying his t-shirt the way I did with Zidane,R9, Laudrup, etc

I think the thing is for a lot of these players, not all, but I watched highlights of a united game in the 90s and the amount of time you'd get on the ball compared to today is crazy. De bruyne probably has all the skill and flair to perform the wag some of those players did (ok he's probably not going to be Ronaldinho levels of dribbling regardless) if he didn’t get closed down so quickly. While some of it is tactics that don't encourage flair or creativity or individuality, also the lower amount of time you get on the ball and the faster pace doesn't allow for the same level of flair regardless. The riquelme, Zidane even Bergkamp as teams don't play with two strikers anymore position have all but vanished from the modern game because they don't have the luxury to support a number 10 in most cases

 

[kouroux]

He struggled when he played, from what I remember.

He’d be screwed now.

Or he'd adapt, train on that aspect of the game and change into an even better player.
In these fictional scenarios, we never envision players changing and adapting to the new era's requirements

 

[adexkola]

Problem is also that modern tactics take the flair out of the players.

If you take the flair out of Zidane, Laudrup,Baggios, Riquelme, etc you end up with something like KDB, a super effective and top player that doesn't have much flair in his game, and can look very robotic at times.

By flair we mean what, rabonas and lazy dribbles?

 

[FrankFoot]

By flair we mean what, rabonas and lazy dribbles?

No, individual creativity, trying to do something on his own.

KDB every time he has the ball he immediately try to pass it to the closes teammate he has, cause that's how Guardiola plays, he doesn't take any risk or even try to dribble in open spaces.

Sorry, I don't enjoy that kind of football, no matter how perfect and clinical it can be, and I'm sure i'm not the only one.

Salah at his prime at Liverpool was more exciting to watch than KDB.

 

[FrankFoot]

While i do definitely agree with this, i don't think we'll see the same advances as we have over the last two decades. Things like data science, it's because computers can collate and analyse data on a scale far greater than humans you're not going to get that same kind of advances again. Players had bad diets and still drank and smoked in the 90s, again you're not going to be able to advance much from this point in terms of that. Coaching will improve and players likely will naturally get a bit fitter but a lot of the advances that have happened aren't going to be able to happen again at the same kind of scale

It's bound to happen.

I can even see players getting genetically enhanced in 50 years with chip implants, so they can run for 90 minutes without even sweating.

Technology and medicine is always getting better.

 

[Red in STL]

No, individual creativity, trying to do something on his own.

KDB every time he has the ball he immediately try to pass it to the closes teammate he has, cause that's how Guardiola plays, he doesn't take any risk or even try to dribble in open spaces.

Sorry, I don't enjoy that kind of football, no matter how perfect and clinical it can be, and I'm sure i'm not the only one.

Salah at his prime at Liverpool was more exciting to watch than KDB.

TBF Rashford does try to do something on his own, usually because there's no CF to pass to!

Football, IMO, is mostly formulaic and sterile now, players are mostly drilled to death and have little leeway to do anything other than keep possession, exceptions are few and far between, Garnacho is one of them and Antomy is the opposite

As much as it pains me to say it, you are right, prime Salah was eminently more exciting to watch than virtually any other current player

 

[adexkola]

No, individual creativity, trying to do something on his own.

KDB every time he has the ball he immediately try to pass it to the closes teammate he has, cause that's how Guardiola plays, he doesn't take any risk or even try to dribble in open spaces.

Sorry, I don't enjoy that kind of football, no matter how perfect and clinical it can be, and I'm sure i'm not the only one.

Salah at his prime at Liverpool was more exciting to watch than KDB.

Ah ok, understood. I don't think that's ever been KDB's strength, even when he has space. He's more of a driving force in midfield surging with the ball, and releases the ball when pressured.

Bernando and Mahrez do more of the dribbling.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

No, individual creativity, trying to do something on his own.

KDB every time he has the ball he immediately try to pass it to the closes teammate he has, cause that's how Guardiola plays, he doesn't take any risk or even try to dribble in open spaces.

Sorry, I don't enjoy that kind of football, no matter how perfect and clinical it can be, and I'm sure i'm not the only one.

Salah at his prime at Liverpool was more exciting to watch than KDB.

I don’t think that’s fair in terms of passing, he is the one player in Guardiola’s team given a bit of freedom, he plays some brilliant passes from distance and all angles, he’s a spectacular passer. He’s not an amazing dribbler but he’s decent at it and drives with the ball well.

But yeah it’s more like young Beckham. I would still consider him an exciting enough player to watch but if you want to watch pure flair he’s hardly like Ronaldinho, Zidane or Figo.