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Zion Suzuki - Goalkeeper
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Apart from fitness I think that even for keepers there's some experience you only can gain in actual competitive matches : being attuned to the pace and back and forth, keeping concentration over a whole game, opposing players possibly challenging you a lot firmer, pressure on set pieces and penalties, being able to communicate with your defense in a packed stadium with a lot more ruckus going around, etc...
And unlike other positions there's generally not a lot of rotation, you won't come off the bench, you get only a handful starts a year even as #2.
There's no doubt to me it is a lot more valuable for him to start in the Jupiler League, which is a good springing board to possibly step up to Eredivisie, Portugal and beyond as a starter than to warm United bench except possibly wage wise.
When we were winning titles nearly every year and going deep in UCLs yes.
Also these were the days of less sports science and less recovery for players. If you speak to players and managers of today you'll see there is a big difference.
Especially because there are more matches today, and the games today are of a much higher intensity too
Real life isn't football manager mate, despite many top coaches saying it's important for young players to stay at their clubs and develop you obviously know better it seems. But yeah sure, now Adam has done 12 months at Sunderland he'll be a starter in no time...
You mean that maybe one day he could get a move to United?
Lofty goals I guess but doing a tour of all Europeans B leagues just to get where you should have gone in the first place doesn't sound smart.
No, player only training with no game time will turn out to be Messi and Ronaldo when they hit peak age.
On loan, or at decent club, or at parent club playing time is important for their growth.
Exactly it's not Football manager, you can't just train player for many years and expect them to hit their potential.
I don't believe for one second that 95% of the games in the Juliper League are more intense than any of the training he would receive at United. If they are, there's something very wrong with our standards at Carrington.
Zion Suzuki, we hardly knew ya
More often than not, players don't get loaned out because there isn't much to be gained from sending a player on loan for years. Look at Garnacho, clearly good enough, showed his ability in house and gets his chance. Some players, like Amad are stuck in this zone where they're too good to be in the reserves (too easy for him) but he isn't good enough to be effective in the first team. What did we learn about his loan? He can do it in the Championship? Great, we knew that already, he was doing it for Atalanta in the CL a few years back. A loan is only good for development if it's more intense than what they were previously getting.
Possibly ? That's the dream for most players innit ? Or at the very least to achieve the highest level they can in the game.
It's not that common for a backup keeper to unseat a starter, certainly less so than at any other position... Bar injury or the starter having a mare of a season. I think there's a huge premium on being #1 and it's much easier to move up as a first choice in your next club.
Even if you take Garnacho as example, why is he getting mins? He isn't fully grown player, he can just train until he hits his peak and then we can play him. Meanwhile we can sign someone like Adama to play those mins.
Playing time is not needed for player growth, so why is EtH wasting time with Garnacho and planning to waste time with Mainoo. They can stay at Carrington and train till they are 24-25, then we can play them.
Afterall Rio said training was more intense than games.
So wait, you think Garnacho is getting better because he's playing more? The fact is that he's good enough to play, but you have to play him to see if he can handle the mentality of the games and follow instructions. A match is quite literally applying what you learned in training to a competitive game.
Yeah well what does Rio know? You seem to know more on the matter so we'll just ask you in the future.
ffs
Why are we even playing him and wasting our time when we can just train him for few more years and play him when he is complete package.
Rio didn't say what you said, nice try though.
Someone forgot to tell all the clubs who keeps wasting their time loaning players all over the world and to lower league. They should just sign more coaches and let players train until they hit 23-25, so that they can be pushed straight into first team, after all playing is overrated and it's the training that matters.
Why did Brighton even loan out Caicedo who then had fantastic time at Brighton, same with endless Chelsea loaned players who played lot of games which helped in their development, like Mount, Reece James, Tammy and many more.
Seriously?
Young players, especially those around 18-22, even goalkeepers are much better off playing first team football every week in a decent competitive league, than togging out for the reserves or u21s every week. They will be stronger, more in tune with the speed of the game, positioning, learning how to handle themselves physically, learn more about game management, team shape, structure, composure, etc etc all that stuff that you don't learn when you don't play games.
If they are good enough, their performances will eventually be picked up on and they will get the chance to move to a bigger, better team in a better league.
He's much better off playing at a decent club, with potential exposure to European football than he is sat on the bench at Utd.
Yeah, we told a 20 year who hasn’t even played 30 games in his senior career that he’s coming in to be our number 2, which is why he rejected the deal.
Any young player, especially GK should always look for game time. When they are old, they can be #2 at decent-good clubs. Back up GK is one of the least used role for playing time.
You don't even need to tell him he follows football we just signed an ETH favourite in the same role who would be good for the foreseeable future.
We'll be better off with a Romero profile back up for cup games.
He’s clearly not meant to be the number 2 yet, if he signs for us, he’ll be dumped into the reserves and if he’s lucky we’ll start sending him out on loan in a year or two.
It’s too far of a reach for a player who’s barely played in Japan to magically be good enough to be the second choice keeper for a team that’s playing in the champions league.
The tricky part for us is that keepers who are very good at playing out from the back are still pretty rare, so even the ones in their mid-30's still have plenty of clubs wanting them to be their starting keeper.
I think when you purchase a youngster like this you have to have a plan to integrate the player, one which everyone wins. Say if the idea was to bring him in and then renew De gea and then slowly transition to Suzuki then I think he'll fancy it. But in this scenario were you bought a relatively young goalkeeper who's ETH favourite only a not so smart player comes.
Yep. Onana is clearly number 1 and Henderson and Heaton both want out for regular football. Suzuki wants regular football.
Looks like Heaton will have to stay.
City got good one in Ortega but yeah, tricky to get good GK who can pass the ball.
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We're after signing a relatively young goalkeeper for a large transfer fee who is basically the ideal in terms of the managers philosophy and the manager's famous for not rotating players. Onana might have another decade as first choice keeper. It's a rational choice for him. He only has to look at how Henderson, who was once considered a €50mn keeper has rotted away at United to realise its a bad idea.
Ah, the oracle has spoken. For what he's worth, he's also said the following:
"Our club captain Gary Neville's been out for a year now, but Giggsy has taken up the mantelpiece" - RIO FERDINAND
"I'm sure the mantelpiece of captaincy will suit Wayne" - RIO FERDINAND
"Someone now has to step up and take on the mantelpiece" - RIO FERDINAND
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Man thought he would come in to play first choice so rejected us because of Onana. I guess I admire the confidence in that
I like Honda's not so keen on Suzuki's.
Fair play to him. A back up keeper probably has the least chance of in any position to get game time.
i see nothing wrong in what he said
That tracks, there was a period early in the summer where it seemed that De Gea could be staying but the message was that he'd be competing for the #1 spot with somebody else. The move probably made sense for him in those circumstances.
Smart kid.
Yeah, people who get up in arms about a player thinking this way is so strange.
I would have liked to get him, but fair play. He is confident in his ability and wants to play. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe some day...
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