Regarding the public there exist rasists and assholes all over the place of course. Due to him being on decline they may step up and see the chance to attack him more though. While his defenders might not speak as much as it is harder to defend him when he is not even playing.
Zlatan interview with Olivier Dacourt | Blasts Swedish media for "undercover racism"
- Thread starter United_We_Stand
- Start date
Yeah from the media it is pretty much this. He is still like Rooney very protected in media. You can see that many in people in media don't dare to speak negative about him even when it is justified. The racism exist, but not really in the media. It is more on forums like this you might see comments with hate although compared to hate against guys like Lingard here before it is nothing although not seen people blame racism though as well Martial and many other got none of the same hate as an example.
Prejudice is real, but it is mainly in other areas that are less talked about. About apperence, sexual orientation and stuff like that would have far worse prejudice than nationalism at the moment. Bias and agendas as we see here when people can be blind for someone playing great since they don't like them is very common in working life and might hurt a lot of people. For Zlatan it have been the opposite I think.
I have said earlier that Zlatan is chatting shit and that he's a God here.
This must be sooo confusing for our resident scousers -
On one hand, he's a Utd player, so he must be lying...
On the other, he's claiming that, 'there is no racism', so he must be telling the truth...
But then, he's also saying that 'this is about racism', so he's almost certainly lying (probably to get out of a yellow card or something)...
And to make it even more confusing, he's saying that 'there is undercover racism', which points to a conspiracy, like the one Fergie had going, which means he's almost certainly right!
Added to this they're supporting Rhian Brewster's claims of racism within the game, while simultaneously claiming that Holgate made up racism claims in front of a ref in order to escape a booking.
All in the same week they lost their best player of the last 3 seasons (boo!), and bought a good defender (yay!), but for 75m (boo!).
Phew.
On one hand, he's a Utd player, so he must be lying...
On the other, he's claiming that, 'there is no racism', so he must be telling the truth...
But then, he's also saying that 'this is about racism', so he's almost certainly lying (probably to get out of a yellow card or something)...
And to make it even more confusing, he's saying that 'there is undercover racism', which points to a conspiracy, like the one Fergie had going, which means he's almost certainly right!
Added to this they're supporting Rhian Brewster's claims of racism within the game, while simultaneously claiming that Holgate made up racism claims in front of a ref in order to escape a booking.
All in the same week they lost their best player of the last 3 seasons (boo!), and bought a good defender (yay!), but for 75m (boo!).
Phew.
I was in Gothenburg a couple of times last year and I was there for Swedish National Day and the amount of Sweden shirts with Ibrahimovic on was mental.
So I got one myself (the saucy grey away shirt).
So I got one myself (the saucy grey away shirt).
Agree on everyting.
His arrogant / piss taking personality also helped make him incredibly popular and incredibly despised at the same time.
I believe he rubbed a lot of journalists the wrong way as he has never really hidden his disdain for the Swedish media with his personality and the fact that he has never given them any special access which is a bit of a custom with Swedish athletes abroad.
I think he boycotted one of the rags for a while. Can't forget that whole "Zlatan tried to kill me with his SUV"-article by Kristina Kappelin back in the day either
I think people call him arrogant, prick, turd etc because he is probably the only one who goes against the general narrative of racism (undercover or not). There are lots of people in football who get racially abused for various reasons ( which only the racist can comprehend) but these people who get abused don't usually go on the offensive unlike Zlatan. But on the other hand he milks the attention too, I mean who wouldn't?
You get the impression he lacks a certain humility and what does he expect every time he visits Sweden for everyone that crosses his path to drop to their knees exclaiming, "Hail Zlatan, hail Zlatan."
On the other extreme you had the equally successful (different sport) Bjorn Borg who didn't appear to court the media.
Get the impression in a few years time he will end up seeing a psychologist or end up wearing a white coat.
Supermarket parking might be the trigger.
On the other extreme you had the equally successful (different sport) Bjorn Borg who didn't appear to court the media.
Get the impression in a few years time he will end up seeing a psychologist or end up wearing a white coat.
Supermarket parking might be the trigger.
IMO the way the media has treated him over the last 15 years has everything to do with his personality and nothing with his name or heritage. It was perhaps a bit different before that when he was still in Malmö, then he was still a "foreigner" with a questionable background both in the eyes of the media and the public. But if his name had been Andersson and he acted in the same way he's done over his career then he would still divide the people in the same way, probably even more people would dislike him because it would be so "un-Swedish" to act like that. Since he's got that Balkan blood it's more accepted/expected since they are, rightly or wrongly, perceived to be more outspoken and cocky than the stereotype Swede is.
Sweden has never had an athlete who stood up and said "I'm the best and everyone knows it" even when they have been the best in the world. It's always "team effort" this or "my parents deserve all the credit because they drove me to practice every day when I was 12" that. This of course makes you a media darling and everyone loves you and this is also of course not what Zlatan has done 100% of the time. A lot of people still thinks he's being completely serious with every word he says, even when he cracks that 1 mile smile afterwards, and that has obviously not helped him either. With that said he is very humble at times, especially after he became captain of the NT he toned down his antics quite a lot imo. For some reason he turned it back up to 11 when he signed for United though.
Sweden has never had an athlete who stood up and said "I'm the best and everyone knows it" even when they have been the best in the world. It's always "team effort" this or "my parents deserve all the credit because they drove me to practice every day when I was 12" that. This of course makes you a media darling and everyone loves you and this is also of course not what Zlatan has done 100% of the time. A lot of people still thinks he's being completely serious with every word he says, even when he cracks that 1 mile smile afterwards, and that has obviously not helped him either. With that said he is very humble at times, especially after he became captain of the NT he toned down his antics quite a lot imo. For some reason he turned it back up to 11 when he signed for United though.
For those of you who’re interested in the historical context this is what I think is the background to Zlatans comments.
This discussion started originally 1994. Sweden lost 0-1 (Romario) to Brazil in the WC semifinal and Tommy Svensson, the current manager at that time, was furious after the game with one of his players.
Martin Dahlin, born in Sweden with a Swedish mother and a father from Venezuela, was one of the first players with dark skin who represented Sweden in the WC. Dahlin was a gifted forward who in his younger days was known for his sharp elbows and that he was a little bit selfish. Think Marcus Rashford/Fellaini and you get the picture.
After the semifinal against Brazil our manager accused Dahlin, in a subtle way behind closed doors, to be egotistical and selfish. According to the Swedish medical team Dahlin wasnt fully fit before the game and in the second half when Jonas Thern got his red card (against Dunga) Dahlin started to sulk a little bit and didn’t fully track back to help our defense. Dahlin defended himself (off the record) that he probably only play one WC SF in his life and that he wanted to play and the reason he didn’t track properly was that he wanted to be fresh if Sweden had a counter attack opportunity. Right or wrong Sweden lost after a heroic game.
Tommy Svensson game plan after the red card, according to people close to him, was to defend a draw for 90+ 30 min and then hoping for a penalty shot out. In his opinion the way to succeed with nine outfield players was to have nine bodies behind the ball and hope for a miracle. This heated discussion between him and Dahlin ended with that some journalists and pundits, off the record, said that Martin Dahlin had a foreign personality. More egotistical and less Swedish. A native Swedish man (with white skin) had worked his socks off and followed orders. In some quarters the word was that this was Tommy Svenssons view too, but most Swedish people at this level of management are diplomatic and political correct so in the press it was silence and the feud was history after our bronze medal a few days later.
Fast forward ten years. A young Zlatan is taking Sweden by storm. Suddenly egotistic are the new “good”. We need “individuals “ and the Swedish way, you know hard working team players, are out dated. Suddenly we had new young players with attitude. Being successful and arrogant was the norm by many second generation immigrants. Just to clarify this isn’t a accusation just a observation about how the times was changing.
Zlatan did his thing but in the background we saw a split between Zlatan and his followers and players with typical Swedish names. Whenever there was a opportunity people positioned themselves and even the Swedish FA had people for or against “the Zlatan way”. I personally know high senior ranked officials in the Swedish FA who welcomed the day Zlatan retired. When the Swedish NT got a new manager the talk about “the Swedish way” was back. 442. The collective was the key to success. Suddenly we had no “stars” (read Zlatan) and hard working horses was the way forward. It all ended with Sweden won against Italy with approximately 20% possession and one fluke goal. Anders Granqvist was the new hero. Forget Ibra, some players and the manager even openly said that the door is probably closed to a Zlatan comeback in the WC.
Later 2017 Granqvist won the the Swedish Golden ball after ten years of total domination from the one and only, yes you guessed right, Mr Zlatan Ibrahimovic. The circle was closed. The jury even highlighted words like “collective, the Swedish way”. If you ask me a clear reference to one specific player.
This is probably the context to Zlatans criticism. Now he’s injured and on his last leg, and suddenly the cavalry has nothing to fear
Is Zlatan right? Yes without a doubt. Racism isn’t always straight forward. The criticism against Zlatan is allways personal and about his character. A young Zlatan took the world with storm. He changed Sweden to a better country. He didn’t hide the truth about himself when he wrote his book. What you see is what you get. Put yourself in the spotlight 24/7 for 15 years and I will crucify everybody of you who’s willing to try. Nobody is perfect.
Zlatan is a good guy. He has his flaws like everybody else but if we compare he’s something to be proud of. Successful wherever he goes. What’s happening now when Swedish media giving their pay back is sad and childish.
Sorry for a long post.
This discussion started originally 1994. Sweden lost 0-1 (Romario) to Brazil in the WC semifinal and Tommy Svensson, the current manager at that time, was furious after the game with one of his players.
Martin Dahlin, born in Sweden with a Swedish mother and a father from Venezuela, was one of the first players with dark skin who represented Sweden in the WC. Dahlin was a gifted forward who in his younger days was known for his sharp elbows and that he was a little bit selfish. Think Marcus Rashford/Fellaini and you get the picture.
After the semifinal against Brazil our manager accused Dahlin, in a subtle way behind closed doors, to be egotistical and selfish. According to the Swedish medical team Dahlin wasnt fully fit before the game and in the second half when Jonas Thern got his red card (against Dunga) Dahlin started to sulk a little bit and didn’t fully track back to help our defense. Dahlin defended himself (off the record) that he probably only play one WC SF in his life and that he wanted to play and the reason he didn’t track properly was that he wanted to be fresh if Sweden had a counter attack opportunity. Right or wrong Sweden lost after a heroic game.
Tommy Svensson game plan after the red card, according to people close to him, was to defend a draw for 90+ 30 min and then hoping for a penalty shot out. In his opinion the way to succeed with nine outfield players was to have nine bodies behind the ball and hope for a miracle. This heated discussion between him and Dahlin ended with that some journalists and pundits, off the record, said that Martin Dahlin had a foreign personality. More egotistical and less Swedish. A native Swedish man (with white skin) had worked his socks off and followed orders. In some quarters the word was that this was Tommy Svenssons view too, but most Swedish people at this level of management are diplomatic and political correct so in the press it was silence and the feud was history after our bronze medal a few days later.
Fast forward ten years. A young Zlatan is taking Sweden by storm. Suddenly egotistic are the new “good”. We need “individuals “ and the Swedish way, you know hard working team players, are out dated. Suddenly we had new young players with attitude. Being successful and arrogant was the norm by many second generation immigrants. Just to clarify this isn’t a accusation just a observation about how the times was changing.
Zlatan did his thing but in the background we saw a split between Zlatan and his followers and players with typical Swedish names. Whenever there was a opportunity people positioned themselves and even the Swedish FA had people for or against “the Zlatan way”. I personally know high senior ranked officials in the Swedish FA who welcomed the day Zlatan retired. When the Swedish NT got a new manager the talk about “the Swedish way” was back. 442. The collective was the key to success. Suddenly we had no “stars” (read Zlatan) and hard working horses was the way forward. It all ended with Sweden won against Italy with approximately 20% possession and one fluke goal. Anders Granqvist was the new hero. Forget Ibra, some players and the manager even openly said that the door is probably closed to a Zlatan comeback in the WC.
Later 2017 Granqvist won the the Swedish Golden ball after ten years of total domination from the one and only, yes you guessed right, Mr Zlatan Ibrahimovic. The circle was closed. The jury even highlighted words like “collective, the Swedish way”. If you ask me a clear reference to one specific player.
This is probably the context to Zlatans criticism. Now he’s injured and on his last leg, and suddenly the cavalry has nothing to fear
Is Zlatan right? Yes without a doubt. Racism isn’t always straight forward. The criticism against Zlatan is allways personal and about his character. A young Zlatan took the world with storm. He changed Sweden to a better country. He didn’t hide the truth about himself when he wrote his book. What you see is what you get. Put yourself in the spotlight 24/7 for 15 years and I will crucify everybody of you who’s willing to try. Nobody is perfect.
Zlatan is a good guy. He has his flaws like everybody else but if we compare he’s something to be proud of. Successful wherever he goes. What’s happening now when Swedish media giving their pay back is sad and childish.
Sorry for a long post.
Top post!
@7even - interesting background.
Thanks for giving us some context
I agree
Good
Brilliant post!
Interesting piece cheers
Isn’t it a little funny how Ibrahimovic mentions racism and we don’t even get to page 2 before someone confirms his suspicions in that post from @Gusjaros?
Read in Zlatan's book that he never really like being Swedish from the football side of things e.g. the culture being at odds with how he played.
Bit like Berbatov. He should've been Brazilian.
Bit like Berbatov. He should've been Brazilian.
Part of the problem is Ibrahimovic. The way he plays is not suited to playing against stronger teams in general. He is a master for a big team breaking down a smaller team though, but when you are playing as an underdog his lack of defensive work plus lack of pace doesn't help nor does he help out enough in other areas of the game by performing better when it matters sadly.
Same with Berbatov who I loved. SAF benching him in big champions league helped out. Although playing in big games against weaker teams Berbatov loved like the hattrick against Liverpool.
Which mistakes is he talking about?
I suspect that any player with the arrogance of Ibrahimovic would be subject to more criticism than others, regardless of name and color.
I suspect that any player with the arrogance of Ibrahimovic would be subject to more criticism than others, regardless of name and color.
In sweden it is more the other way around that he gets too little criticism I think. Think here in england it should be more, but none care much now I think.
I worked in Sweden for a couple of years and to be honest I felt the underlying racism he's talking about, My work took me all around europe, the UK, Spain, Germany, Belgium but that feeling was prominent in Sweden because of my background and beliefs. I was never called any names but you felt it. Maybe I just met the wrong people?
Never apologise for an insightful post.
Enjoyed the read.
Thanks for taking the time to write it.
The only people Swedish media are racist against are the ones with differing opinions from their own.
sounds about right
Listen, I've lived here for 12 years and it's a great country. I have also lived in the UK and the difference between how you're perceived in both countries is very easy to recognize. I felt more at home in England than I ever did Sweden despite the fact that i've been a Swedish citizen for as far as I can remember.
I still maintain that Swedish people aren't racist but in many cases they just don't know better and that's due to the geographical segregation that exists between us. I've had many Swedish friends tell me that they had the wrong idea about Middle Easterns and that image changed after actually making Middle Eastern friends, the food is usually a good ice breaker
Good post!
I'm surprised to read about this. I've always considered Sweden to be way ahead when it comes to these things.
Thanks for adding context to the story. I had assumed it was something about the World Cup qualification bringing out some anti-Zlatan reaction but it's always good to see more of the picture, and why Zlatan sees it as being more than just about him.
Loved the sneaky Spinal Tap referenceIMO the way the media has treated him over the last 15 years has everything to do with his personality and nothing with his name or heritage. It was perhaps a bit different before that when he was still in Malmö, then he was still a "foreigner" with a questionable background both in the eyes of the media and the public. But if his name had been Andersson and he acted in the same way he's done over his career then he would still divide the people in the same way, probably even more people would dislike him because it would be so "un-Swedish" to act like that. Since he's got that Balkan blood it's more accepted/expected since they are, rightly or wrongly, perceived to be more outspoken and cocky than the stereotype Swede is.
Sweden has never had an athlete who stood up and said "I'm the best and everyone knows it" even when they have been the best in the world. It's always "team effort" this or "my parents deserve all the credit because they drove me to practice every day when I was 12" that. This of course makes you a media darling and everyone loves you and this is also of course not what Zlatan has done 100% of the time. A lot of people still thinks he's being completely serious with every word he says, even when he cracks that 1 mile smile afterwards, and that has obviously not helped him either. With that said he is very humble at times, especially after he became captain of the NT he toned down his antics quite a lot imo. For some reason he turned it back up to 11 when he signed for United though.
I forgot all about Dacourt.
Most Swedish native people proud themselves to be well educated, discerning, open minded and liberal. We see ourselves as anti racists and by allowing immigrants from all over the world to come to our country we think that we’re a good human beings.
The political discussions in our country are sometimes bizarre. I will don’t even mention Facebook. Crazy stuffs. You’re inside if you share the opinions of the majority and if you don’t you’re socially dead. That means that if you’re unlucky you can lose your job, be socially isolated and you will be branded as a racist. And this is for real.
The Swedish media is hypocrites of highest order. And that’s an understatement.
But her is the interesting part. Being political correct is one thing but integrate with unknown people is something else. This is the part where Sweden fails badly.
Our country are simply described diveded in three parts.
Wealthy people with good jobs who lives in almost totally white areas. You find mix races but most of them are high educated, in a relationship with a native Swede or adopted. They work, live and socially integrate with people who have similar social status. These people are 100% political correct and they do charity a s o but apart from having a correct image they don’t care one bit about immigrants as long as it don’t affect their lives.
Immigrants who lives in rough areas with a high percentage of uneducated, unemployed, non integrated and they live their own lives far apart from the Swedish society.
The rest. Hillbilly’s, people with handicap or without employment.
Zlatan grow up in Rosengård/Malmö and he was a typical second generation child who lived outside the wealthy society.
When he became successful he wanted, intentionally or unintentionally, to be part of the wealthy group. Blonde girl friend, kids, houses in prestigious areas, hunting (upper class activity), parting with other successful businesses men. In short he went from a poor immigrant child to a wealthy high profile athlete.
Make no mistakes. Zlatan is a political force. Sometimes you get the feeling that he has ambitions, sometimes not. If Zlatan took a political stance his opinion could change the political landscape. This part creates fear.
So when part of the Swedish establishment and media tries to undermine his popularity (read influence) they do it with a purpose.
Another part is that Zlatan threatened some newspapers, individual journalists like trash, rightly or wrongly, so now they see the time for pay back.
Being a star playing for Manchester United gives him a platform. Moving to China isn’t the same. Nothing happens by a coincidence.
Without any inside knowledge I think this is what Zlatans media strategist is seeing. That’s why he starts to talk about a underlying racism. And he’s right, that’s the scary part. This drama will continue..
The political discussions in our country are sometimes bizarre. I will don’t even mention Facebook. Crazy stuffs. You’re inside if you share the opinions of the majority and if you don’t you’re socially dead. That means that if you’re unlucky you can lose your job, be socially isolated and you will be branded as a racist. And this is for real.
The Swedish media is hypocrites of highest order. And that’s an understatement.
But her is the interesting part. Being political correct is one thing but integrate with unknown people is something else. This is the part where Sweden fails badly.
Our country are simply described diveded in three parts.
Wealthy people with good jobs who lives in almost totally white areas. You find mix races but most of them are high educated, in a relationship with a native Swede or adopted. They work, live and socially integrate with people who have similar social status. These people are 100% political correct and they do charity a s o but apart from having a correct image they don’t care one bit about immigrants as long as it don’t affect their lives.
Immigrants who lives in rough areas with a high percentage of uneducated, unemployed, non integrated and they live their own lives far apart from the Swedish society.
The rest. Hillbilly’s, people with handicap or without employment.
Zlatan grow up in Rosengård/Malmö and he was a typical second generation child who lived outside the wealthy society.
When he became successful he wanted, intentionally or unintentionally, to be part of the wealthy group. Blonde girl friend, kids, houses in prestigious areas, hunting (upper class activity), parting with other successful businesses men. In short he went from a poor immigrant child to a wealthy high profile athlete.
Make no mistakes. Zlatan is a political force. Sometimes you get the feeling that he has ambitions, sometimes not. If Zlatan took a political stance his opinion could change the political landscape. This part creates fear.
So when part of the Swedish establishment and media tries to undermine his popularity (read influence) they do it with a purpose.
Another part is that Zlatan threatened some newspapers, individual journalists like trash, rightly or wrongly, so now they see the time for pay back.
Being a star playing for Manchester United gives him a platform. Moving to China isn’t the same. Nothing happens by a coincidence.
Without any inside knowledge I think this is what Zlatans media strategist is seeing. That’s why he starts to talk about a underlying racism. And he’s right, that’s the scary part. This drama will continue..
Great posts in this thread from you, mate. It definitely supports my thoughts and views about what is going on in Sweden and how in general extreme views create an equally strong extreme counter-part.
There is a lot to discuss about such matters but this is definitely not the place for it.
PS: Ibrahimovic is the best!
thanks for the insight. Worth a read.
I don't know about Zlatan but Europe 100% has this underlying racism thing about it. In America, racism is more upfront. Europe always has it hidden in their hearts revealing it sometimes. I am not going to argue proving my point because I have experienced it in Europe and those that haven't just refuse to believe it was ever racist.
Wow, on one of the alternative current affairs sites an article said much the same thing about Sweden. The worst fear was to be called a racist as you would most likely lose your job and be excluded socially. So no-one discusses certain things publicly in current affairs.
The only problem with that is eventually things will explode and it will most likely be unpleasant.
I'd say that you've forgotten the biggest part of all in your social structure and that's the middle class. Otherwise you're lumping together about 7-8 million Swede's as either wealthy with good jobs or hillbilly's.. and that doesn't really sound right.
I think he meant that when he wrote wealthy. I think by wealthy he meant well off which the Swedish middle class is. Middle class areas are very white.I'd say that you've forgotten the biggest part of all in your social structure and that's the middle class. Otherwise you're lumping together about 7-8 million Swede's as either wealthy with good jobs or hillbilly's.. and that doesn't really sound right.