70s Fantasy Draft - Brwned v Rood

[Brwned]

Team Brwned

TEAM ROOD

THIS IS HOW THE MATCH BEGAN, LINEUPS HAVE SINCE CHANGED AT 22-18 - SEE HERE

SUB: Diego Milito

Tactics:
My team features not one, not two, but THREE Ballon D'or winners and when we are talking about players at their peak, there is no greater honour. Add to that a sack full of World Cup, European and domestic medals plus a plethora of individual honours spread all around my legendary players.
We start with an experienced defensive unit with the best pair of fullbacks in this entire draft. Moving into midfield, Guardiola is the heartbeat of my team, dictating play by turning defence into attack with pinpoint passing abilities. Baggio will do the dirty work to break up the opposition and give the more creative players the time and space to operate. Nedved was one of the last great box to box midfielders who are so hard to find nowadays, arguably the best of his generation – adds value to both the defensive and attacking side of the team. An extra touch of guile and class comes from Schneider who was known as a constant provider of goals.
My star player is Rivaldo, I have given him a free role in the hole where he can provide both goals and assists. A young Owen will be instructeded to hang off the shoulder of the last defender and use his speed to get in behind or drag the opposition defence as deep as possible, he only needs a few half chances to convert to a bag full of goals. As if that wasn’t enough, my Plan B option is to introduce the aerial threat and forward power of Diego Milito, proven to score goals on the biggest occasions yet can only manage a place on the bench in this AllStar team.


Shay Given: Ireland’s most capped player and still one of the best keepers in England. Twice voted the best keeper in the Premier League.
PL Team Of The Year ‘02&’06

Roberto Carlos: The best full back in this draft and arguably the greatest full back of all time plus legendary dead ball specialist
UEFA Defender OTY ‘02 / World Cup Allstar Team ‘98&’02

Jaime Carragher: Always Mr.Dependable when called upon by club and country. Versatile enough to play either CB or RB.
PL TOTY '06 / CL Winner

William Gallas: Defensive rock for club and country for many years – known as a strong, speedy defender who can deal with the quickest of attackers.
PL TOTY ‘03&’06 / 2 x PL Winner

Lilian Thuram: Was the most expensive defender in history when he moved to Juve and proved to be worth every penny. Equally comfortable at CB or RB, winning the World Cup, Euros, Serie A etc
WC All Star Team ‘98&’06 / Euro Allstar ’00 / FIFA Bronze Ball ‘98

Pep Guardiola: Known for his football intelligence and ability to pick out the perfect pass even under pressure. He is the blueprint for all Barca’s current success; Xavi, Iniesta and Fàbregas have all stated that he was their role model and hero.
Euro Team Of The Tournament 1992 & 2000 / 6 x La Liga / 2 x Euro Cups etc

Dino Baggio: Will break up the opposition in midfield, big game player who saved his goals for the biggest stage and got his name on the scoresheet in two UEFA finals and the World Cup. A regular for the national team ahead of the likes of Donadoni and Albertini in their prime.
3 times UEFA Cup Winner / WC'94 Runner Up.

Pavel Nedved: Widely regarded as one of the finest midfielders of the modern era, awarded Ballon D’or in 2003. Known for his energy and tireless work, as well as his goal scoring ability, he was nicknamed Furia Ceca ("The Czech Fury") by Juve fans.
Serie A POTY ’03 / Euro AllStar ’04 / UEFA TOTY ’03,’04&’05

Bernd Schneider: Earned the nickname "The White Brazilian" for his dribbling and passing skills as well as his dead ball accuracy. A vital part of teams that reached World Cup and Champions League Finals.
Rudi Völler said: "Bernd was a great footballer, who produced magic for Germany and Leverkusen…”

Rivaldo: One of the greatest players of all time, won everything from World Cup to Champions League to Ballon D’or, plus has an award that no other player in this draft can claim, Uzbek League Top Scorer! An unstoppable attacking force who could win games all on his own.

Michael Owen: Awarded Ballon D’or ‘01, at his peak his movement was unrivaled and he was considered the deadliest finisher on the planet. Scored one of the all time greatest World Cup goals
Twice winner of the PL Golden Boot, selected in the PL Team Of The Decade

Sub:

Diego Milito A prolific and consistent center-forward, averaged over a goal every two games. Pivotal in Inter's recent treble winning season and his two goals in the CL Final gave him international recognition as one of the world's most effective front men.
Serie A and UEFA FOTY ’10 / Serie A and CL Winner etc.

 

[Rood]

same kit! great minds

 

[Brwned]

Davids wins it out wide, feeds it to Pirlo who switches it out wide to Sagnol drawing out Carlos as he plays a one-two with Valeron, and then slides it across for a Shearer tap-in. Then we sit back and keep tight through the middle, allow Carlos and Thuram to be the main attacking threats and we'll deal with the aerial threat all day long, hitting quickly on the break to take advantage of Rood's soft core in defence. Reliant on the magic of Nedved and Rivaldo, they'll be frustrated up against a rock solid defence and two very combative midfielders.

 

[BaldwinLegend]

If they're all to be judged at their best, you'd have to say that Rood's defence is more than decent surely. Especially with Guardiola in front of them.

 

[Rood]

... allow Carlos and Thuram to be the main attacking threats ... hitting quickly on the break to take advantage of ... the magic of Nedved and Rivaldo ...

Couldn't have said it better myself

 

[Brwned]

It's the only weak point I can point to! I don't think it's unfair to say neither were really top defenders, always in the tier below the best. There's a good balance to the partnership in terms of styles but there's an aerial weakness to target there I believe which suits my two forwards quite well if the fullbacks can get the crosses in.

 

[Crustanoid]

Can't decide on this one

 

[Rood]

It's the only weak point I can point to! I don't think it's unfair to say neither were really top defenders, always in the tier below the best. There's a good balance to the partnership in terms of styles but there's an aerial weakness to target there I believe which suits my two forwards quite well if the fullbacks can get the crosses in.

You can point to Carra as my weak point (although I think that really shows just how strong my team is), but I think it is ridiculous to suggest that Gallas wasn't a top defender. Plus as you say yourself, they would have been a great combo - in fact I would argue that they are more complimentary than your CBs who are more similar in style. Both my CBs are very strong in the air (especially Carra) so its just plain false to talk about aerial weakness.

My fullbacks are also far superior to yours, the best in the whole draft IMO and Guardiola is sat there to protect and intercept as required as well.

 

[Brwned]

Can't argue with the fullbacks being better - although defensively mine probably edge it, given R. Carlos was a wingback pretending to be a fullback - but as a back four I'd be surprised if anyone saw yours as better. I don't think it's particularly controversial to say Gallas was a step below the rest but it's just an opinion; Ayala and Rio will be remembered as two of the best defenders of their generation, and there's an argument for them being in each of their two nation's all-time XI's. I don't think the same can said for Gallas in either case.

 

[Snow]

Carlos and Thuram vs Sagnol and Zambrotta. I think it's unfair to claim far superiority. It depends on what you look for in a full back.

It's similar defense vs similar midfield vs similar forwards. Brwned has better midfield defensively, Rood better suited to attack.

 

[Rood]

Can't argue with the fullbacks being better - although defensively mine probably edge it, given R. Carlos was a wingback pretending to be a fullback - but as a back four I'd be surprised if anyone saw yours as better. I don't think it's particularly controversial to say Gallas was a step below the rest but it's just an opinion; Ayala and Rio will be remembered as two of the best defenders of their generation, and there's an argument for them being in each of their two nation's all-time XI's. I don't think the same can said for Gallas in either case.

This is about players in the prime so really anything related to a player's standing all-time is pretty irrelevant, but if you want to talk about alltime then Roberto Carlos and Lilian Thuram are always recognised as 2 of the greatest fullbacks of all time, not just of their own nation but of any nation.

Zambrotta was great at his peak but Sagnol is simply not on that level - he is not a player who was ever in contention for individual honours and had to wait for Thuram to move on before becoming a regular international. Meanwhile, Gallas was picked for France throughout his career plus TWICE voted into the PL team of the year - and you try to make out that he was not world class !!

 

[Rood]

Carlos and Thuram vs Sagnol and Zambrotta. I think it's unfair to claim far superiority. It depends on what you look for in a full back.

It's similar defense vs similar midfield vs similar forwards. Brwned has better midfield defensively, Rood better suited to attack.

Well even Brwned admits that my fullbacks are superior so there doesnt seem to be much argument there, but you are right that it is close in all areas. At this stage of the competition most weak players have been discarded and there are household names all over the pitch, so often is does come down to personal preference.

However, where my team really comes into its own is in Galactico star quality, the type of players who could get into any team in the world at their respective peaks. Brwned has a lot of top players, but many are known for consistency over several years rather than stand out prime seasons. He has 2, maybe 3 world stars and this draft is supposed to be based on players at their peaks.

Meanwhile, 3 of my players (Rivaldo/Nedved/Owen) were voted the best player on the planet at their peak, plus I would argue that Thuram, Roberto Carlos and maybe even Guardiola were right up there as well in their particular position.

 

[Cling Bak]

Rood's roaming full-backs perfectly compliment a very combative midfield. All four can put their foot in and play, too.

Same can be said of Brwned's quartet, very tidy again.

Both fielding good forward's, Rood would probably pick 2001-02 and pair Owen and Rivaldo together right there and then to devastating results. Brwned could go for 1998 and get similarly brilliant partnership from Shearer and Larsson. Obviously all coincidental (peaking at similar times) but interesting nevertheless as I think both could work. All four have goals in them.

I've gone for Rood on personal preference. There's so little in this. I like the option of Diego Milito coming off the bench too. His 2009/10 form would frighten any team.

 

[Snow]

Well even Brwned admits that my fullbacks are superior so there doesnt seem to be much argument there, but you are right that it is close in all areas. At this stage of the competition most weak players have been discarded and there are household names all over the pitch, so often is does come down to personal preference.

However, where my team really comes into its own is in Galactico star quality, the type of players who could get into any team in the world at their respective peaks. Brwned has a lot of top players, but many are known for consistency over several years rather than stand out prime seasons. He has 2, maybe 3 world stars and this draft is supposed to be based on players at their peaks.

Meanwhile, 3 of my players (Rivaldo/Nedved/Owen) were voted the best player on the planet at their peak, plus I would argue that Thuram, Roberto Carlos and maybe even Guardiola were right up there as well in their particular position.

Yes but you said far superior. That's different to being better.

Too many teams are end up playing each other. Makes it hard to choose.

Your left side is significantly better than you're right. Nedved+ Carlos vs Thuram and Schneider. Your team has got much more pace but I see more set pieces threat from Brwned. You do seem to have the better players and you managed to beat me so you must be doing something right.

 

[Brwned]

This is about players in the prime so really anything related to a player's standing all-time is pretty irrelevant, but if you want to talk about alltime then Roberto Carlos and Lilian Thuram are always recognised as 2 of the greatest fullbacks of all time, not just of their own nation but of any nation.

Zambrotta was great at his peak but Sagnol is simply not on that level - he is not a player who was ever in contention for individual honours and had to wait for Thuram to move on before becoming a regular international. Meanwhile, Gallas was picked for France throughout his career plus TWICE voted into the PL team of the year - and you try to make out that he was not world class !!

David James was voted in the PL team of the year twice too. I know you like your awards so here's another one: Gallas was nominated for the Ballon D'or in 2006 while Ferdinand was never nominated for it. Up to you to decide whether that points to how inaccurate these awards can be or that Gallas simply was better at his peak...

I think you're very harsh on Sagnol, he was excellent at Bayern and when he finally got his chance for France he impressed plenty at the World Cup in '06. If he wasn't competing with Thuram he'd have been more widely appreciated you'd think.

 

[Rood]

Not that it is so relevant to this match but James was actually a damn good keeper at his peak, but he will always be remembered for his troughs.
I shouldnt really be talking up your players, but FYI Rio was nominated for Ballon D'or on more than one occasion and I thank you for pointing out Gallas' recnognition as one of the best defenders in the world back in 2006.

 

[Rood]

Yes but you said far superior. That's different to being better.

Too many teams are end up playing each other. Makes it hard to choose.

Your left side is significantly better than you're right. Nedved+ Carlos vs Thuram and Schneider. Your team has got much more pace but I see more set pieces threat from Brwned. You do seem to have the better players and you managed to beat me so you must be doing something right.

Well forgive me for using a bit of a hyperbole, I think we all do!

We did of course have an epic group battle and my narrow victory there has made a big difference to my team with the additions of Thuram and Nedved. It did of course mean that Milito was pushed to my bench (eventhough I actually think he was a vote winner for me against you) but I have the option of bringing him on later if I find myself chasing the game.

 

[Snow]

Well forgive me for using a bit of a hyperbole, I think we all do!

We did of course have an epic group battle and my narrow victory there has made a big difference to my team with the additions of Thuram and Nedved. It did of course mean that Milito was pushed to my bench (eventhough I actually think he was a vote winner for me against you) but I have the option of bringing him on later if I find myself chasing the game.

We sure do but it always gets pointed out. That's pretty much every argument in these threads

 

[Jayvin]

I'd say Brwned has the best defence in the competition hands down, no weak links there. Rood maybe just edges it in attack thanks to Rivaldo and Nedved, but he would likely lose the midfield battle and with no one upfront capable of hold up play or providing an out ball, Rood's team would struggle to retain possession. Brwned gets my vote.

 

[Rood]

I'd say Brwned has the best defence in the competition hands down, no weak links there. Rood maybe just edges it in attack thanks to Rivaldo and Nedved, but he would likely lose the midfield battle and with no one upfront capable of hold up play or providing an out ball, Rood's team would struggle to retain possession. Brwned gets my vote.

A team with Guardiola, Nedved and Schneider in midfield will never struggle to retain possesion!

Im suprised that you think I would lose the midfield battle, as I see it I have 4 hard working midfielders who all offer defensive value - Baggio in particular will have a solely defensive role as he always did for his country and Nedved was famous for his tireless running. Guardiola is also a holding player and although Schneider is more known for his creativity, he was never afraid to put in a good shift for the team.
Meanwhile Brwned has Valeron who offers little on the defensive side and Pirlo who is also hardly known for defensive qualities and certainly weaker in that aspect than his opposite number, Guardiola. Davids is a beast so no questions on him and although Tacchinardi is a DM, I would say he is actually the weak link in the midfield battle - he was never a world class player, as shown by his lack of caps for his country (just compare Baggio's 60 caps to Tacchinardi's paltry 13).

 

[Polaroid]

Which player will you take from each other's team should you win?

 

[Snow]

Rivaldo and Davids.

 

[Zarlak]

Neither team will win while they are lining up facing the wrong way.

 

[Gio]

Another close match. A couple of areas which would make the difference. For Brwned, Shearer and Larsson up against Carragher and Gallas. For Rood, Rivaldo dropping into the hole and Thuram and Carlos allowed to shape the game comparatively unchallenged from out wide. Davids would likely cancel out Nedved, but as impressive as he was I'm not sure he'd be able to do the same to Rivaldo and Carlos.

 

[DanNistelrooy]

The defences has decided this one for me. Brwned's is superb

 

[Brwned]

Not that it is so relevant to this match but James was actually a damn good keeper at his peak, but he will always be remembered for his troughs.
I shouldnt really be talking up your players, but FYI Rio was nominated for Ballon D'or on more than one occasion and I thank you for pointing out Gallas' recnognition as one of the best defenders in the world back in 2006.

Never for United quite remarkably, which was undoubtedly when he was at his peak. Can anyone explain why be was nominated two years in a row at Leeds but never at United?

Which player will you take from each other's team should you win?

Rivaldo's the obvious one. Thuram would be a nice addition to the defence but there's no need to improve the defence really, and Nedved would give the side a bit of energy and directness but 4222 never goes down well.

 

[antohan]

Rood for me, reasons, etc. discussed at length in main thread.

Looks like picking Ayala instead of Verón paid off handsomely.

 

[antohan]

Can anyone explain why be was nominated two years in a row at Leeds but never at United?

Probably because people will have a tendency to highlight a player's contribution to a relatively obscure team that is doing well (which is what Leeds would have been to the rest of Europe).

Rivaldo's the obvious one. Thuram would be a nice addition to the defence but there's no need to improve the defence really, and Nedved would give the side a bit of energy and directness but 4222 never goes down well.

I want Davids anyway

everyone is picking up really top players and I'm treading water with spoils... Our game will be significantly more competitive than my previous ones.

 

[Rood]

WTF happened here?! i was winning when I went to bed - cant believe the turnaround

The only area where Brwned can be ahead is central defence - I honestly think Ive got the edge almost everywhere else and the voting seemed to be going that way initially

 

[Rood]

Never for United quite remarkably, which was undoubtedly when he was at his peak. Can anyone explain why be was nominated two years in a row at Leeds but never at United?

The answer is very simple - it is all to do with his name being blackened by the missed drugs test. Anyway he was a United player when he was nominated in '02.

 

[antohan]

Sleeping on the job, huh?

You are fairly even on manager votes, and they will know all about your approach to the game.

It is the average cafite that is destroying you. They come in, look and can't see you winning. You need to engage them and explain how you are going to win this.

You also probably want to put up that Guardiola clip from your battle with the Snowman.

 

[Rood]

Sleeping on the job, huh?

You are fairly even on manager votes, and they will know all about your approach to the game.

It is the average cafite that is destroying you. They come in, look and can't see you winning. You need to engage them and explain how you are going to win this.

You also probably want to put up that Guardiola clip from your battle with the Snowman.

I think it might be too late already - Im shocked by the swing, not saying I cant understand people voting for Brwned but I was something like 6-3 ahead initially and now way behind.
I did worry that a younger generation might not know too much about the likes of Guardiola, Baggio and Schneider whereas Brwned has more recent players - not much I can do about that really.
Perhaps it was a mistake to bench Milito as he is well known currently, but I thought it gave me a better balance and stronger in the midfield battle

 

[antohan]

I think it might be too late already - Im shocked by the swing, not saying I cant understand people voting for Brwned but I was something like 6-3 ahead initially and now way behind.

You've only just gone into the second half, it would be disappointing if you just accept your fate.

I did worry that a younger generation might not know too much about the likes of Guardiola, Baggio and Schneider whereas Brwned has more recent players - not much I can do about that really.

Educate. The challenge with your team is partly that, it is also that you really need to help people picture how effective and devastating it could be.

It is easy to say: defence stronger, attacking partnership has more goals, midfield has two destroyers... Brwned. All those things are actually relative to how the game is played. The movement and combination of your players (and the effect it has on Brwned's game) is what makes your team special, but you are not doing your propaganda.

Perhaps it was a mistake to bench Milito as he is well known currently, but I thought it gave me a better balance and stronger in the midfield battle

I think this was the stronger team and I'm unsure how highly rated Milito is, but at this stage you may as well try. You've got nothing to lose.

 

[kps88]

There's honestly nothing in it and if I could have voted for a tie I would have. I went for Brwned in the end as I'm a big fan of Pirlo and Davids.

 

[BaldwinLegend]

Both good teams but what turns it Rood's way for me is that his team really benefits from the 'to be judged at their best' point.

Owen, Rivaldo, Gallas and Carragher are all still playing, but their best levels were something else and all a while ago. Owen in 1998-2000 for example...

As for the defence, Carragher was excellent about 5-6 years ago. As good as anyone in the league for me at that time and excelled at taking a 'no man shall pass' stance.

Gallas was excellent for long periods for Chelsea too and I suspect it's only really his poor stance as Arsenal captain that has tarnished his image. At his best he was brilliant.

Also, Schneider's a favourite of mine and Rivaldo is an underrated genius. Not to mention Thuram, Guardiola and Nedved. Great team.

 

[Brwned]

I think it might be too late already - Im shocked by the swing, not saying I cant understand people voting for Brwned but I was something like 6-3 ahead initially and now way behind.
I did worry that a younger generation might not know too much about the likes of Guardiola, Baggio and Schneider whereas Brwned has more recent players - not much I can do about that really.
Perhaps it was a mistake to bench Milito as he is well known currently, but I thought it gave me a better balance and stronger in the midfield battle

Was quite surprised myself but then it's already started to swing in the other direction so I'm wary of speaking too soon! The game's have all been much closer than the 60s draft so you can't really expect to win any of them, IMO. Most are too close to call. There's a fair chance a few people came on here after having a few too many drinks and just voted without even thinking and that could be what wins the game.

I don't think you can say that about Guardiola, surely everyone knows he's one of the great deep-lying playmakers to have played the game...but then so is Pirlo. Guardiola was in the top 25 for the '94 Ballon D'or, Pirlo was in the top 10 two years in a row and was nominated twice in a row before that. Nothing wrong with believing Pirlo was better.

Schneider only made his German debut in '99 and had his peak post-00s so I would think most saw enough of him to judge for themselves, I just think the fact he's a bit of a boring attacking player counts against him in the same way I think it did for Camoranesi. Not sure though. I'm sure it counts against Dino Baggio though, these kinds of players aren't/weren't given a lot of recognition at the time they were playing so there's not much to go off if you've not seen him. You should've just posted a video of his goal against Spain in '94 and said he did that every other week!

At least we've generated a bit of interest, more votes than any other in this tournament and more than any of the previous two other than a couple of games, finals aside.

 

[Cold_Boy]

I think it might be too late already - Im shocked by the swing, not saying I cant understand people voting for Brwned but I was something like 6-3 ahead initially and now way behind.
I did worry that a younger generation might not know too much about the likes of Guardiola, Baggio and Schneider whereas Brwned has more recent players - not much I can do about that really.
Perhaps it was a mistake to bench Milito as he is well known currently, but I thought it gave me a better balance and stronger in the midfield battle

Giving up so early.

Never the trait of a good manager.

You are back in it a bit.

 

[antohan]

This is the man pulling the strings and pinging the balls from deep

This is what Owen vs. Ayala looks like.
Ayala was great, but slow, left him completely stranded there

I can't be bothered to do all of Rood's work here, but I'm sure there's plenty out there to show what Rivaldo can do in the hole.

So Brwned can't defend high up nor leave space between his lines. He has his back against the wall and relies on counters.

What's his outlet?

A ball to Valerón? He is tracked by a master of interceptions. Guardiola was no defensive monster, more the Carrick type, which is exactly what you need when you have Pirlo trying to telegraph the front men from deep.

Shearer as target man with Larsson doing the runs? Nice, but is it enough? Carragher and Gallas won't be ballwatching.

The fullbacks? Too busy at the back and facing better fullbacks...

Rood should be winning and, at the very least, shouldn't be losing so badly here.

 

[Rood]

Giving up so early.

Never the trait of a good manager.

You are back in it a bit.

I havent given up - just had some other stuff to deal with today!
Had half an eye here of course and noticed that I seemed to be catching up by keeping quiet and letting others have their say so I didnt want to ruin that

 

[Cold_Boy]

Comeback.