Jonny Evans | 2011/12 Performances

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Nani Nana said:
My word :lol:

Evans got victimized in the air by Fellaini and Nikica fooking Jelavic but yeah, Kompany wouldnt have had a patch on him.

This whole "looking for scapegoats after defeats" thing is really annoying, posters thinking we always have all the cards at our disposal and any non-win is our fault. Face it boys, some teams nowadays are better than us whatever our disposition and team selection.
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I am not looking for scapegoats - i was referring exclusively to the goal incident. Otherwise smalling had an excellent game imo. As you said they were the better team and if there was an area where we lost the game imo it was in midfield - just look at possession stats
 
Would have made feck all difference. Comparing the stats of the Everton game when we actually were the better team and should have won to the city game when we never even remotely looked like scoring or dominating and even our so called central midfield players park and giggs didn't even make 20 fecking passes is as senseless as it comes. Playing Val instead of park and welbeck instead of giggs now that could have made a difference
 
Nani Nana said:
My word :lol:

Evans got victimized in the air by Fellaini and Nikica fooking Jelavic but yeah, Kompany wouldnt have had a patch on him.

This whole "looking for scapegoats after defeats" thing is really annoying, posters thinking we always have all the cards at our disposal and any non-win is our fault. Face it boys, some teams nowadays are better than us whatever our disposition and team selection.
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Evans has had a fantastic season though. That has nothing to do with him coming from an entirely different yet nearby country to Pogue.
 
Rio has been our best defender over the last few months, and even hes had a couple of shockers. Take him out of the team, and Evans would've been more exposed.

Evans has improved with his run in the team, but how good he has been has been massively exaggerated, as always with any young player that gets a run in the team.
 
Brwned said:
Just felt like bringing this back up again because I thought it was quite clear last night on a number of occasions that his touch is a bit hit-and-miss. He looks very elegant striding up the pitch and he's got a few silky touches up his sleeve but he does take risks, does dally on the ball and does miscontrol it considerably more than Evans, Vidic or Rio do, despite arguably looking a more stylish ball-player than any of our other defenders (now Rio's losing his pace). I wouldn't say he lacks composure or that he's even technically inferior, he's just a worse ball-player than those three. Misplaces passes more, takes heavier touches more often and generally causes more problems.
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When he's on top of his game he's an elegant footballer, uses the ball well and looks very calm and composed. I just think he looked a bit rusty last night and unusually flustered. Treated the ball like a red hot potato (not a great analogy but you know what I mean) The situation got to him IMO.

Which is to be expected, after playing so few games in his preferred position this season - only to be thrown in the deep end in an absolutely massive fixture. Just a shame Fergie didn't have any other choice.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That would be two games. Out of 36 league games played so far. Even if Evans had absolute stinkers in both those games (and he didn't) that could still be consistent with him having an excellent season overall.
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He did. And being a United player means performing in the crucial games.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
Did you watch the Wigan and Everton games? They cost us the league.
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I don't think his season comes down to two performances. Since when do we judge players entire seasons on two games?

11/12 - 33
10/11 - 37
09/10 - 28
08/09 - 24
07/08 - 22
06/07 - 27
05/06 - 34

This our goals conceeded since 05. It's hardly a massive gulf of difference between this season and some of the others either. We have also only conceeded just 6 more goals than City too, would you deny that any of their defenders have had an excellent season? It's not as simple as looking at goals conceeded and saying that.
 
The only Northern Irish player we missed yesterday is Norman Whiteside
 
Hectic said:
I don't think his season comes down to two performances. Since when do we judge players entire seasons on two games?

11/12 - 33
10/11 - 37
09/10 - 28
08/09 - 24
07/08 - 22
06/07 - 27
05/06 - 34

This our goals conceeded since 05. It's hardly a massive gulf of difference between this season and some of the others either.
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Also worth bearing in mind we lost our two of most defensively reliable full-backs last summer and our best central defender not long after. With a rookie keeper to bed in as well. Combine that with losing our best defensive midfielder for the whole season and it's no great surprise our goals against column doesn't look too clever. If anything, the fact it's not even worse is testament to the season that Evans has had.
 
Hectic said:
I don't think his season comes down to two performances. Since when do we judge players entire seasons on two games?
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Vidic's entire shout at the PL Player of the Year was rubbished based on one run where Torres got the better of him at Anfield Road three years ago.

No, Evans did not have an excellent season. You could at best say he had an excellent season compared to the previous one, but his performances were mostly pedestrian and never did he make the sort of difference Vidic did at his peak. Which if you're not only his replacement, but a United player in general, is the sort of performances required to be labelled excellent.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Also worth bearing in mind we lost our two of most defensively reliable full-backs last summer and our best central defender not long after. With a rookie keeper to bed in as well. Combine that with losing our best defensive midfielder for the whole season and it's no great surprise our goals against column doesn't look too clever!
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It's as if no context is being applied to this at all.
 
When you look back at this season, what games are going to stand out as the key ones where we should have done better... the 6-1 derby defeat and the loss to Wigan and draw with Everton in the run in. I suggest people go back and watch those three games.
 
Nani Nana said:
Vidic's entire shout at the PL Player of the Year was rubbished based on one run where Torres got the better of him at Anfield Road three years ago.

No, Evans did not have an excellent season. You could at best say he had an excellent season compared to the previous one, but his performances were mostly pedestrian and never did he make the sort of difference Vidic did at his peak. Which if you're not only his replacement, but a United player in general, is the sort of performances required to be labelled excellent.
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So what?

Are you really saying that Evans has to match the performances Vidic offered at his peak, to have an excellent season?
 
Hectic said:
It's as if no context is being applied to this at all.
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You're at fault for failing to apply a context - had you said "Evans had an excellent season compared to his previous one" or "Evans had an excellent season under the circumstances" then you would not have been picked up on.
 
Well we'll have to disagree Nana, and that's not what I was referring to about context anyway, but in the sense of goals conceeded on a team level.
 
This 'Evans has had an excellent season' thing is a classic case of trying to write the narrative before the season is over.
 
Semantics regarding what "excellent" implies.

I think he's had a good season but, like Mike said, he still has the occasional howler which has cost us. Perfectly understandable though considering he's not first choice.
 
Evans replacement cost us the game with a shocking piece of marking, I think it's fair to say he might of done better.

Of course he does not win every header but he has got better this season and at least might have been within five feet to attempt some kind of defence.

To lose Kompany at a corner is simply shocking. No defence.

Ferdinand and Evans has been our best cb partnership this season imho.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
This 'Evans has had an excellent season' thing is a classic case of trying to write the narrative before the season is over.
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No, it really isn't. I didn't come up with my views on Evan's season based on what he did five months ago, or in the last few weeks. It's based off his season-long performances, and offered two games before the end of it.

I'm not seeing your point here, are you saying that Evans would have had an otherwise excellent season had he not performed poorly in two particular games?

What if we won yesterday and went on to win the league, would it then be considered excellent because it didn't actually cost us anything?
 
Hectic said:
No, it really isn't. I didn't come up with my views on Evan's season based on what he did five months ago, or in the last few weeks. It's based off his season-long performances, and offered two games before the end of it.

I'm not seeing your point here, are you saying that Evans would have had an otherwise excellent season had he not performed poorly in two particular games?

What if we won yesterday and went on to win the league, would it then be considered excellent because it didn't actually cost us anything?
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He's been found wanting in the 6-1 derby defeat and two crucial games in the run in. I really don't see how anyone can claim he's had an 'excellent' season. An 'excellent' season for a Manchester United player has to mean performing when it matters... that's what United is about, we're not Spurs!
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Hardly. It's just writing the narrative based on what actually happened over a long period of time, as opposed to the events freshest in the memory.
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If by "events freshest in the memory" you talk of a title run-in in which every mistake can cost your team the championship then you're being a bit complaisant

And if you really judge things based on what actually happened over a long period of time, then you ought to remember the performances of our centre-backs throughout the years be it Vidic in 2009-2010, Rio Ferdinand in 2006-2007 or Jaap Stam in 1998-1999 to conclude that it takes a bit more than what Evans offered to have an "excellent season" if you're a centre-back at Manchester United.
 
Nani Nana said:
If by "events freshest in the memory" you talk of a title run-in in which every mistake can cost your team the championship you're being a bit complaisant

And if you really are to judge things based on what actually happened over a long period of time, then you should remember some the performances of our centre-backs throughout the years be it Vidic in 2009-2010, Rio Ferdinand in 2006-2007 or Jaap Stam in 1998-1999 to see it takes a bit more than what Evans did against Wolves to have an "excellent season" when you're a centre-back at Manchester United
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I definitely recall Vidic making mistakes in 2009-2010. For Ferdinand, remember that howler he had against Portsmouth, the own goal? Stop being selective.
 
Hectic said:
No, it really isn't. I didn't come up with my views on Evan's season based on what he did five months ago, or in the last few weeks. It's based off his season-long performances, and offered two games before the end of it.

I'm not seeing your point here, are you saying that Evans would have had an otherwise excellent season had he not performed poorly in two particular games?

What if we won yesterday and went on to win the league, would it then be considered excellent because it didn't actually cost us anything?
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I'm just not getting the logic they're putting forward.
 
adexkola said:
I definitely recall Vidic making mistakes in 2009-2010. For Ferdinand, remember that howler he had against Portsmouth, the own goal? Stop being selective.
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So Evans this season was on par with the Vidic of 2009-2010 ? :lol:
 
MikeUpNorth said:
He's been found wanting in the 6-1 derby defeat and two crucial games in the run in. I really don't see how anyone can claim he's had an 'excellent' season. An 'excellent' season for a Manchester United player has to mean performing when it matters... that's what United is about!
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Man Utd 2-0 QPR
Blackburn 0-2 Man Utd
Man Utd 1-0 Fulham
Wolves 0-5 Man Utd
Man Utd 2-0 West Brom
Tottenham 1-3 Man Utd
Norwich 1-2 Man Utd
Man Utd 2-1 Liverpool
Chelsea 3-3 Man Utd
Man Utd 2-0 Stoke
Arsenal 1-2 Man Utd
Man Utd 3-0 Bolton

In a run of games such as the above, for example?

A 12 game undefeated run that included games against Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs? Three out of those four games away from home?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Man Utd 2-0 QPR
Blackburn 0-2 Man Utd
Man Utd 1-0 Fulham
Wolves 0-5 Man Utd
Man Utd 2-0 West Brom
Tottenham 1-3 Man Utd
Norwich 1-2 Man Utd
Man Utd 2-1 Liverpool
Chelsea 3-3 Man Utd
Man Utd 2-0 Stoke
Arsenal 1-2 Man Utd
Man Utd 3-0 Bolton

In a run of games such as the above, for example?

A 12 game undefeated run that included games against Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs? Three out of those four games away from home?
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I'm not denying he had a run of good form in the middle of the season. He's had a decent season, about what I would expect from a backup player trying to force his way into the first team.

I think the clamour to label him as 'excellent' has just come about because we haven't really had many stand-out players this season and people are looking to find one.
 
Nani Nana said:
If by "events freshest in the memory" you talk of a title run-in in which every mistake can cost your team the championship then you're being a bit complaisant

And if you really judge things based on what actually happened over a long period of time, then you ought to remember the performances of our centre-backs throughout the years be it Vidic in 2009-2010, Rio Ferdinand in 2006-2007 or Jaap Stam in 1998-1999 to conclude that it takes a bit more than what Evans offered to have an "excellent season" if you're a centre-back at Manchester United.
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An excellent season for you is clearly not the same as an excellent season for everyone else. Those players were the best defenders in Europe in that season (it was '08 for Rio, not '07), that's a magnificent season, something that we've had less than 10 times in over 100 years. So for me, and obviously many others, you're devaluing the achievements of Vidic, Rio, Stam, McGrath and co. as well as the achievement of Evans this season.

Worth noting that Sir Alex went a bit further than saying he had an 'excellent season', too.
 
Well then we're getting into a debate about the definition of "excellent".

If you look at the points total we're likely to get in the league this season then we have to have at least some players whose overall contribution was either very good or excellent. It's not possible to have pushed this City team as hard as we did without our key players playing very well for the majority of the season.

Most knowledgeable pundits would have Evans down as one of our key men this season (Neville and Bruce have both been extremely complimentary about him in recent weeks) so I think he deserves all the praise he gets. Especially when you consider what an important player Vidic has been over the last few years. For Evans to take his place and for the team to have a league campaign as successful as this one - taking into account all the other reasons for us to be defensively frail - is quite an achievement.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
He's been found wanting in the 6-1 derby defeat and two crucial games in the run in. I really don't see how anyone can claim he's had an 'excellent' season. An 'excellent' season for a Manchester United player has to mean performing when it matters... that's what United is about, we're not Spurs!
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I really can't see how you can be disqualified from having an excellent season based on two games, no matter how important they are. An excellent season for me is how a player performs over the course of a season, not in two particular matches. Those games were crucial because we had to maintain the points lead we had over City right, but what about all the crucial games before that which ensured we even had a lead? It seems very harsh to take away from Evans based on two matches and a derby defeat which saw our entire team battered in a record fashion.
 
Nani Nana said:
And if you really judge things based on what actually happened over a long period of time, then you ought to remember the performances of our centre-backs throughout the years be it Vidic in 2009-2010, Rio Ferdinand in 2006-2007 or Jaap Stam in 1998-1999 to conclude that it takes a bit more than what Evans offered to have an "excellent season" if you're a centre-back at Manchester United.
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Are you taking the piss with this?
 
Hectic said:
I really can't see how you can be disqualified from having an excellent season based on two games, no matter how important they are. An excellent season for me is how a player performs over the course of a season, not in two particular matches. Those games were crucial because we had to maintain the points lead we had over City right, but what about all the crucial games before that which ensured we even had a lead? It seems very harsh to take away from Evans based on two matches and a derby defeat which saw our entire team battered in a record fashion.
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Not to mention that he wasn't even on the pitch for most of that derby defeat. At least, when he was we only conceded one goal.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Well then we're getting into a debate about the definition of "excellent".

If you look at the points total we're likely to get in the league this season then we have to have at least some players whose overall contribution was either very good or excellent. It's not possible to have pushed this City team as hard as we did without our key players playing very well for the majority of the season.

Most knowledgeable pundits would have Evans down as one of our key men this season (Neville and Bruce have both been extremely complimentary about him in recent weeks) so I think he deserves all the praise he gets. Especially when you consider what an important player Vidic has been over the last few years. For Evans to take his place and for the team to have a league campaign as successful as this one - taking into account all the other reasons for us to be defensively frail - is quite an achievement.
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Most of our players have had patches of very good form, but few have had a season of consistently playing at their highest level. I think that's probably why we're likely to come up just a little short in the end.
 
Hectic said:
I really can't see how you can be disqualified from having an excellent season based on two games, no matter how important they are. An excellent season for me is how a player performs over the course of a season, not in two particular matches. Those games were crucial because we had to maintain the points lead we had over City right, but what about all the crucial games before that which ensured we even had a lead? It seems very harsh to take away from Evans based on two matches and a derby defeat which saw our entire team battered in a record fashion.
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Fair enough. I hoped for more from him. As Fergie and people on here pointed out about a month ago, he was on a very good run of form, which made it all the more annoying when he turned to shit in the last few weeks.
 
If you can't take joy in how good Evans has been this season, then pack football in because it's not for you.

A few weeks ago people were suggesting him a place in the team of the year, now he's not had an excellent season?

He's been fantastic! It's been a joy to watch him grow in confidence after the City game, and he's hardly put a foot wrong! Do some of you think that in seasons gone past Jaap Stam or Vidic made mistakes?
 
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