I think moaning about the list is a bit strange. The voters(including me) are mostly young and have only voted on the basis of players they have watched regularly. Hence the old timers might find that the players in 90's and 00's are overrated as compared to players in 80's or older.
Bergkamp is overrated.
- Thread starter Chrisjn
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So does Cristiano? I'm not a Cristiano fanboy by any means, but he has the greatest goals to minutes ratio of any player in the history of Real Madrid. Di Stefanio, Sanchez, Puskas, Raul and yes, even Luis Ronaldo. Those that say Brazillian Ronaldo was better are just wearing those childhood nostalgia specs a litttle too tightly imo.
Ronaldo was the absolute perfect combination of pace, power, dribbling ability, ball control, natural skill and lethal finishing. Not to mention having excellent vision (better than Cronaldo and probably Messi in that department). Without the injury I reckon he'd be considered the greatest of all time.
Plus he's the greatest WC goalscorer ever, lest us forget.
Bergkamp was pretty damn good. His partnership with Henry is right among the top of the best I've seen.
Pace aside, Messi and Cristiano both surpass L.Ronaldo in all those things.
Disagree immensely.
Look at Cristiano Ronaldo's record. And then consider he isn't playing as an out in out striker. He is a far more lethal forward than L. Ronaldo ever was
Have to agree with Sewelly on the Ronaldo thing. When you see him as a youngster it's ridiculous how good he was and he's right when he says he had everything. If anything, I'd say that he could've been even better than he eventually was.
Cristiano is a great player and lately he also has a better record in the big games but I don't care much for records amassed in a two-horse race (who cares if he scores five against Almería?).
Ronaldo was absolutely immense though. On the big stage I would always rather have peak Ronaldo than peak Cristiano.
I wouldn't put it down to mentality or workrate. In fact the opposite, Cristiano probably tries too hard to shine while Ronaldo just shone brightly while clearly enjoying every minute of it. He was pure genius.
Worth pointing out that Di Stefano wasn't a forward by any means and was far more influential in the build-up than Cristiano's ever been. Even at that his record in his first 4 seasons at Madrid was 124 in 140. Not that you were suggesting Ronaldo's a better player than Alfredo.
If and buts are pointless arguments, imo. C.Ronaldo and Messi are better now than L.Ronaldo ever was.
Messi probably is, but I'd say C. Ronaldo hasn't completely suprassed L. Ronaldo just yet. He might by the end of his career though.
155 appearances 160 goals
His European record at Madrid is also (2010-11 aside), always a goal a game or better.
Absolutely, no doubt in my mind.
Messi and Cronaldo have better goalscoring stats in La Liga. Don't think anybody is arguing that.
I don't think they are better footballers than Ronaldo was. Certainly not the latter.
I don't think they are better footballers than Ronaldo was. Certainly not the latter.
I've got to say, I preferred Henry myself.
There was just something about him that set him apart from Dennis. Maybe it was the youthful spirit, the explosion of pace, the panache, the arrogance. Such a Gallic charm.
Dennis was still a legend though.
There was just something about him that set him apart from Dennis. Maybe it was the youthful spirit, the explosion of pace, the panache, the arrogance. Such a Gallic charm.
Dennis was still a legend though.
Messi easily is. Cristiano is also imo.
Actually, pretty easy to forget Ronaldo scored 47 in 49 for Barcelona as a 20 year old. A Barcelona team that wasn't the force the current day version or Real Madrid are.
I love Scholes but there's no way he belongs to the top 20 footballers that ever played the game.
Fair point. That season aside he never reached those heights again. We shouldn't excuse him just because he got injured multiple times after that. Football isn't about "maybe"
Baffling stuff.
The injuries explain why he never got close to replicating his early career form.Not an excuse because no one is at fault but to come back from them and still perform the way he had, for me in a way it's more impressive that the amazing consistent goalscoring Cristiano is producing
I missed one thing. His world cup performances in 2002 neared those heights. Bloody hell, he was magnificent. I still think on a consistent basis, C.Ronaldo and Messi are better.
Goal scoring wise, no.
He was even better at Inter.
Yet overall he just won La Liga once.
Ronaldo won everything there was for a player to win, both in terms of tournaments and individual honours.
I'm not one to bring up cups and individual honours but feck me if "goals per game" spurts are the measure of a greatest ever player.
Portugal are a good nation but they'll never reach the heights that Brazil reached between 1994-2002 and seeing as both Ronaldo's are forwards, I'd say goals per game are a huge measuring stick. Also, you're excluding Ronaldo's trophies at United? 3 leagues and a european cup?
He developed his game further at Inter became more of a trequartista, in the 97/98 season he added over 20 assists aswell as the goals he scored.
He didn't score as many goals because the Italian league was far more defensive and had most of the worlds best defenders.
i personally think i overrated bergkamp, but feck it, he was magic.
But you see, he scored less goals!
He was even better at Inter.
Cristiano would have scored 60 goals a season in the Serie A in the 90s, just like he does in the SPL. Sorry, La Liga.
Over the course of their entire careers isn't Ronaldo's record better than Cronaldo's, both for club and country?
(since Lynk likes stats so much)
(since Lynk likes stats so much)
Oh for feck sake.
It's not like a Michael Owen/Bergkamp situation. Both Ronaldo's are easily in the top 10 players to have ever played the game, both complete forwards. So in this case I'd argue that goals are a important measure.
Few issues with that. L. Ronaldo's career is finished, and he played in lesser leagues.
To be fair he was playing in a brilliant Brazil side and a Madrid team with Zidane, Figo and Beckham in it.
We need us a 'best strikers of all time' thread
Sao Cristovao: 15 / 15
Cruzeiro: 56 / 58
PSV: 55 / 57
Barcelona: 47 / 49
Inter: 41 / 55
Brazil squad: 39 / 47
Goals/Apps
Those are Ronaldo's stats before he suffered his second injury in April 2000.
Pretty sure those stats are wrong. He had well over 50 appearances for Cruzeiro. And he never broke the goals per game ratio at either Inter or Barca.
Goals on the left appearances on the right
I said everything there was to win, not just two WCs, two Copa America's and one WC runner-up place.
But while we are at this judging forwards on goals stuff... Ronaldo is the top WC goalscorer ever. While Cristiano doesn't play for Brazil he did get seven games on the way to a fourth place in 2006 and should have had more than four games in 2010 if he turned up. Eleven games overall, two goals. One against Iran, the other North Korea. You couldn't make it up.
Since you were banging on about goalscoring records I discarded those as his poor seasons, much like you discard Ronaldo at Inter.
No doubt Ronaldo was better than Messi or C.Ronaldo imo, he was something else. He played in a La Liga which was far more competitive than the current offering and then went to Serie A which was possibly the strongest league in the world at the time and tore into the so called best defenders in the world. Messi and C.Ronaldo are special players but they are playing in a very weak league imo. Even after all his injuries he came back imo half the player he was, went to Real Madrid and was still banging in 30 goals a season there.
I guess going by that logic Adebayor is better than Bergkamp as well.
I guess going by that logic Adebayor is better than Bergkamp as well.
It's not just how many but the tactics and quality of opposition. La Liga is currently a great hunting ground for flat-track bullies.
As above, 2006 Portugal made the semis and played for the third place, his sole goalscoring contribution was the one goal against fecking Iran.
He was also a beast at PSV, at Barca, at Inter... Everywhere he went he was phenomenal, but no, it was the other players. Right.