Is all well that ends well?

acnumber9 said:
I know but it's foolish to say it's only about results. Why not follow a cricket team if that's all that matters. People take different things from the game. It's got feck all to do with Sky though. Did you start watching football because you wanted Utd to win or because you liked watching football?
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I've no idea. It's so long ago I can't really remember. I'd watch United if they weren't winning, but equally I'd watch them if they weren't playing well too.

What makes you happier? Playing great football and losing an important game or playing less great football and winning that important game?
 
The Neviller said:
It was very much a results business when Fergie first came here. He was brought here to improve results, and was under pressure when that didn't happen straight away. The fact our board showed patience and didnt jump in to sack him is no evidence that it wasn't a results business, they just had faith in him to get results, even though certain sections of our fanbase at the time didn't, and wanted him out. Why did they want him out? Because we weren't winning enough, and weren't getting the desired results.
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I'm not speaking about the fanbase mate. I'm speaking about owners, board, the whole lot of them. There's a reason those up top have less patience these days.

Using fans as part of your argument just highlights that expectations haven't changed much even since the late 80's.

Again, in current conditions, Fergie would have less time to do what he wanted. That's largely due to the nature of how football has changed at the executive level. There's less patience. Are you arguing against this trend?
 
iczster said:
You're sort of missing the point here Nev.
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Nah I'm not. If I have a season ticket what entitles my son to have it once I've gone? It's not his, it never was, it's mine.

If someone has been sitting on a waiting list waiting for a season ticket why should the offspring of a previous season ticket holder take priority over them? Apply for your own if it means so much to you.
 
Plato said:
I'm not speaking about the fanbase mate. I'm speaking about owners, board, the whole lot of them. There's a reason those up top have less patience these days.

Using fans as part of your argument just highlights that expectations haven't changed much even since the late 80's.

Again, in current conditions, Fergie would have less time to do what he wanted. That's largely due to the nature of how football has changed at the executive level. There's less patience. Are you arguing against this trend?
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No, but it seems you're arguing with me that it isn't a results business by telling me how much more of a results business it is now compared to the past.
 
The Neviller said:
Nah I'm not. If I have a season ticket what entitles my son to have it once I've gone? It's not his, it never was, it's mine.

If someone has been sitting on a waiting list waiting for a season ticket why should the offspring of a previous season ticket holder take priority over them? Apply for your own if it means so much to you.
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So you're not talking about local families encouraging the next generation to support the club?
 
Sultan said:
If I gave up, I'm sure my sons and nephews would stop going. United would lose a generation of loyal paying fans? Why do you think United let kids in for £10.00 for taking up the same space as an adult?
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That wasn't what I was saying though. I said I don't see why a season ticket should be passed down the generations. If a season ticket holder passes away why should his offspring be entitled to their seat?
 
The Neviller said:
Nah I'm not. If I have a season ticket what entitles my son to have it once I've gone? It's not his, it never was, it's mine.

If someone has been sitting on a waiting list waiting for a season ticket why should the offspring of a previous season ticket holder take priority over them? Apply for your own if it means so much to you.
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I'm positive your attitude will change if ever you have a ST and kids who want to take it over. United have traditionally been known as family club for reasons that tickets have been handed down from previous generations.
 
The Neviller said:
Why on here is everything we do right down to things the opposition do wrong? It's a strange, seemingly new, trend.
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I said they let us off the hook which they did. Welbeck was unmarked for the first and Fletcher had an embarrassingly easy run for the second.

Not sure what your point is......Fletcher and Welbeck did well but it doesn't change the fact the opposition made mistakes?

It is possible for players to do well after capitalising on mistakes from the opposition I would have thought that is just common sense. You are misconstruing what i said and generalising it to suit your apparent discovery of a new caf trend.
 
iczster said:
So you're not talking about local families encouraging the next generation to support the club?
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Of course local fans should encourage the next generation to support the club. That wasn't what I disagreed with though. I disagree that once I have a season ticket it should stay in my family once I die. Why should it?
 
Sultan said:
I'm positive your attitude will change if ever you have a ST and kids who want to take it over. United have traditionally been known as family club for reasons that tickets have been handed down from previous generations.
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Have yours not ready got them? Do they not already go with you?

Maybe I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. Maybe I need to think about it more deeply.
 
The Neviller said:
That wasn't what I was saying though. I said I don't see why a season ticket should be passed down the generations. If a season ticket holder passes away why should his offspring be entitled to their seat?
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They're not entitled. They pay for the ticket. Anyway the way it's going there are no waiting lists these days, making it a moot point.
 
The Neviller said:
Of course local fans should encourage the next generation to support the club. That wasn't what I disagreed with though. I disagree that once I have a season ticket it should stay in my family once I die. Why should it?
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Sorry then mate misunderstood, I'll get off my soapbox ;)
 
Comsmit said:
I said they let us off the hook which they did. Welbeck was unmarked for the first and Fletcher had an embarrassingly easy run for the second.

Not sure what your point is......Fletcher and Welbeck did well but it doesn't change the fact the opposition made mistakes?

It is possible for players to do well after capitalising on mistakes from the opposition I would have thought that is just common sense. You are misconstruing what i said and generalising it to suit your apparent discovery of a new caf trend.
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Maybe it isn't what you meant, but it appears of late as a team we rarely do anything right and are handed any win we get by luck or opposition mistakes.
 
The Neviller said:
Have yours not ready got them? Do they not already go with you?

Maybe I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. Maybe I need to think about it more deeply.
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They do! However, I have some of the best seats in the stadium - my kids would hardly want to lose these if they can afford to keep them. :D
 
The Neviller said:
I've no idea. It's so long ago I can't really remember. I'd watch United if they weren't winning, but equally I'd watch them if they weren't playing well too.

What makes you happier? Playing great football and losing an important game or playing less great football and winning that important game?
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The latter makes me happier as it will for most but it's still not the only thing. If every match bored me but we won I'd stop enjoying it. There's a balance and a middle ground.
 
Sultan said:
They do! However, I have some of the best seats in the stadium - my kids would hardly want to lose these if they can afford to keep them. :D
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Are their seats not up with yours? If you die won't they still have theirs? They might miss you a bit but I'm sure they'll get on with the guy who takes over :lol:
 
The Neviller said:
No, but it seems you're arguing with me that it isn't a results business by telling me how much more of a results business it is now compared to the past.
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I would argue now it's purely a results business. Then, managers had more time to show the board they were worthy of the job. I mean ffs, we gave Sexton four and a half years when we were playing dour football and showed little sign of winning anything. In today's terms he would have lasted maybe more than a month. That's my point. Managers get the sack quicker than before and to me it's no coincidence. Yes, Fergie was expected to deliver but I don't see how he would have had the chance to rebuild the youth team and academy as he did in today's world.

I'm simply saying the world has changed when you give the impression it hasn't.
 
Plato said:
I would argue now it's purely a results business. Then, managers had more time to show the board they were worthy of the job. I mean ffs, we gave Sexton four and a half years when we were playing dour football and showed little sign of winning anything. In today's terms he would have lasted maybe more than a month. That's my point. Managers get the sack quicker than before and to me it's no coincidence. Yes, Fergie was expected to deliver but I don't see how he would have had the chance to rebuild the youth team and academy as he did in today's world.

I'm simply saying the world has changed when you give the impression it hasn't.
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So I was right then that's it's a results business? I'm glad we did this.
 
The Neviller said:
So I was right then that's it's a results business? I'm glad we did this.
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It's a results business now. Back then it wasn't just about getting results. There were more factors going on. Now executives and expectations are so short-term, those other factors negligible. The game has changed. Saying it was always a results business is a distortion of the past and carries the wrong undertone.

Fergie and others who have been around long enough have recognized this trend. Why can't you?
 
Plato said:
It's a results business now. Back then it wasn't just about getting results. There were more factors going on. Now executives and expectations are so short-term, those other factors negligible. The game has changed.

Fergie and others who have been around long enough have recognized this trend. Why can't you?
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I've already said it's a results business. In fact I was the first here to say it. I'm not sure what you're arguing about. Are you?
 
The Neviller said:
I've already said it's a results business. In fact I was the first here to say it. I'm not sure what you're arguing about. Are you?
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I edited my post since you said it was always a results business which I don't agree with.
 
I'd stop going if I wasn't mostly entertained. If it was just a results business I'd just follow Sky sports on match day.
 
Sultan said:
I'd stop going if I wasn't mostly entertained. If it was just a results business I'd just follow Sky sports on match day.
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It's a results business for owners/media not for fans, for whom its a love story.
 
The Neviller said:
No you don't. You pay to go and support your club. I find this a problem with modern day football, and in particular modern day fans. Too happy to sit and wait to be entertained. Too caught up in the glitzy Sky Sports era of entertainment and soap opera style football. You're there to support your team in the hope that they score more than the other team and win. That's what is important.

So, to the OP, is all well that ends well? Yes, if we win then that's the job we set out to do on a Saturday done, whether people were entertained by it or otherwise.
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I disagree with you there.
I think a supporter at the match has a right to want to be entertained, absolutely so.
Ultimately it's the supporters money that's enabling the club to buy talented players, thus we should be allowed to expect entertainment.
It's what busby used to say to his players isn't it!
People pay good money to see entertaining football.

It's about the definition of entertainment!
Personally I like watching us go behind to fight back and win, it's entertaining as feck as long as we come back however, I'd rather a good solid thrashing doled out from time to time.

We have problems for sure, maybe the team is going through transition a wee bit but we are looking ok stats wise!
 
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