I think Fellaini would be complimentary to our midfield in a defensive midfielder capacity if he cuts out the dirty play like headbutts and the like. Only as a squad player, mind. Carrick needs cover.
Spot on...especially nowadays with the media pervasive more than ever.In certain circumstances it suits the clubs, agent, and the player to make the bid public, especially more high profile players. Creates an auction and raises the profile of the all parties concerned.
Its the same situation that happens every single year. Nothing has changed.. the fact is we still don't have any new signings.Yeah, working on things. How many parties do you have to negotiate with?
1. The other club
2. The player's agent
3. Possibly the player
4. If the player isn't from Europe, work visa checks need to be made.
5. Our club has to decide what we think is a fair price, which means further negotiating with the other club if that cannot be agreed upon quickly.
6. Our lawyers have to go over the prospective contract/bid terms we offer to make sure all the correct clauses are in there, with no loopholes that could cause issue (eg Tevez & Mascherano issue)
It's not as simple as going into a shop and buying a packet of crisps, it's extremely large amounts of money exchanging hands and that takes time.
Edit: And that's just laymen things I can come up with off the top of my head, the actual reality of the process is no doubt far more complex and intricate.
I don't think it's bullshit that we're in for Fabregas - it's a fact that our manager has verified.The same press links you would call complete bollocks if it were for a player of higher stature? It's a very frustrating double standard I have noticed. United are in for Fabregas, everyone calls bullshit and says Moyes is wasting his time trying to go for a player of his quality or it's completely made up by the press. Then they hear United are in for Fellaini so it must definitely true and the club are terrible and completely unambitious for going for a player like Fellaini. Moyes can't do right for doing wrong, it's incredibly dull to read and it only gets perpetuated by the same people across the boards like a cancer.
Dembele is miles better than Anderson, Jones or Fletcher in that position. Are they good enough for our midfield? What I "know" is that our midfield transfer policy has been a complete joke for years. We've brought no one in and in the season we need it most we're still waiting two weeks before the season starts. I'd have thought we'd have identified many players to try and sign considering our situation. Instead no, we spend 2 weeks chasing what is looking very likely to be an unattainable target and ignore other options. Whatever you say it hasn't been good so far. A big positive is that we appear to look like keeping hold of Nani.
Just the reality that it's the end of July and we haven't signed anyone yet. I can't compare it to Everton because at United you're trying to shop at another level altogether. It's gonna be hard to find other 'Fabregas's' out there. It's a bit of a learning curve for our new manager, who is probably looking at players he hasn't before, not seriously anyway, because he was never going to sign them.Moyes has signed multiple players for Everton at the same time/in the same window, which would surely take the same or similar amount of time as it would take at United. What on Earth makes you think we have all our eggs in one basket? Moyes was asked a question about a specific transfer/bid that the press know about and he answered the question, nothing more and nothing less. Any further speculation beyond that is just superfluous.
The question is, would he be a substantial improvement on what we have? I say yes.Not seen Dembele put in any performances that have matched Fletcher at his best yet. More skilled yes but that isn't everything. Dembele would have been a good addition in terms of being better than Anderson/Jones but neither are our first choices in that position, Dembele would come in over them but he wouldn't to me be the player to take us up another level. We proved we could win the league without upgrading them and then I guess the thinking was to take stock in the summer on if we could get a midfielder that would take us up a level. Hasn't happened yet but you can understand the thinking.
The same decade in which we signed Anderson, Carrick and Hargreaves, while already having players like Butt, Scholes and Keane. With the likes of Fletcher, Cleverley and Pogba waiting in the wings to come through? We've been unlucky with a couple of our young players not sticking it out here. You could argue that we perhaps should have been quicker to replace that talent but frankly, our midfield has been winning the league and competing to a high level in Europe for the majority of the last 10 years. Are you forgetting we got to the final of the Champions League three times in four years, winning it on one of those occasions?Our midfield policy has indisputably been a joke for a decade. We've only signed two players in that time, one being a perma-crock, despite it being common knowledge that it's an area of weakness. We've shunted players around and asked them to fill in - O'Shea,Jones, Rooney, Giggs - and it's been a constant case of make do.
Now there's nothing wrong with not signing players, especially if there's a conveyor belt of youth talent coming through. But we've only had Cleverley and Fletcher (struck down with illness).
The midfield is a fecking joke.
F*ck me. We don't need Dembele nor should he be a target. He signed for Spurs last year and did okay. Hardly played like a world beater.The question is, would he be a substantial improvement on what we have? I say yes.
I'm not sure I see your point. At Everton, Moyes was limited by a strict budget so the players he could bring in were no doubt as limited as the players he can bring in for us. There have been plenty of times that it's got to close to the end of July and we haven't signed any first team squad players.Just the reality that it's the end of July and we haven't signed anyone yet. I can't compare it to Everton because at United you're trying to shop at another level altogether. It's gonna be hard to find other 'Fabregas's' out there. It's a bit of a learning curve for our new manager, who is probably looking at players he hasn't before, not seriously anyway, because he was never going to sign them.
Hoping for the best but expecting the worst.
The question is, would he be a substantial improvement on what we have? I say yes.
Allegedly we made a bid for Dembel... 3 and half million. Fulham decided it was a deregotary amount and didnt enter negotations. So we did think Dembele was good enough our valuation was just silly.
Not seen Dembele put in any performances that have matched Fletcher at his best yet. More skilled yes but that isn't everything. Dembele would have been a good addition in terms of being better than Anderson/Jones but neither are our first choices in that position, Dembele would come in over them but he wouldn't to me be the player to take us up another level. We proved we could win the league without upgrading them and then I guess the thinking was to take stock in the summer on if we could get a midfielder that would take us up a level. Hasn't happened yet but you can understand the thinking.
The question is, would he be a substantial improvement on what we have? I say yes.
I agree and I don't think we would have confirmed our bid if we didn't have a reason to do so. Football transfers seem to have turned into a game of cat and mouse, with pantomime villains and the like these days. It's not a case of "What's your price?" - "£20m." - "I don't like that price, how about £17?" and the fee is agreed nowadays.In certain circumstances it suits the clubs, agent, and the player to make the bid public, especially more high profile players. Creates an auction and raises the profile of the all parties concerned.
Fletcher's best was 4-5 years ago now. We seem unwilling to buy "good" midfielders instead we're waiting for a world class one. That approach is fine if we can take it but we're really not in any position to be doing that any more with Fergie gone.
Do you know that though? How can you possibly know that our midfield transfer policy has been a complete joke for years? Again, you're missing the point completely. You don't know that we have spent two weeks chasing an unattainable player and you don't know that it's the only midfield player we have been chasing. Do you really think we only ever do negotiations for one player at a time?
Also Dembele isn't better than Anderson and Fletcher doesn't play that midfield role any more, as seen in his short cameo last season where he played in front of the back four.
Whatever I say, I have no idea how good or bad it has been so far because I am not an important employee of Manchester United so I have no idea about our transfer business, just like you. The difference between us is unlike you, I am not making presumptions as to what we are and are not doing.
Anderson has been hit and miss at best, Hagreaves was a complete failure. Fletcher stepped up to the plate brilliantly, but we'll never see the best of him again. Cleverley has very little consistency to his game at the moment (though I do have high hopes). We lost Pogba based on a moral crusade (looking at his Juve progress, we definitely got the thin end of that wedge).The same decade in which we signed Anderson, Carrick and Hargreaves, while already having players like Butt, Scholes and Keane. With the likes of Fletcher, Cleverley and Pogba waiting in the wings to come through? We've been unlucky with a couple of our young players not sticking it out here. You could argue that we perhaps should have been quicker to replace that talent but frankly, our midfield has been winning the league and competing to a high level in Europe for the majority of the last 10 years. Are you forgetting we got to the final of the Champions League three times in four years, winning it on one of those occasions?
Yeah, six years ago.The same decade in which we signed Anderson, Carrick and Hargreaves, while already having players like Butt, Scholes and Keane. With the likes of Fletcher, Cleverley and Pogba waiting in the wings to come through? We've been unlucky with a couple of our young players not sticking it out here. You could argue that we perhaps should have been quicker to replace that talent but frankly, our midfield has been winning the league and competing to a high level in Europe for the majority of the last 10 years. Are you forgetting we got to the final of the Champions League three times in four years, winning it on one of those occasions?
We've played Jones and Rooney in midfield; I'd rather Dembele. It's not as though he went for silly money.F*ck me. We don't need Dembele nor should he be a target. He signed for Spurs last year and did okay. Hardly played like a world beater.
Problem is, our benchmark is set too high. Unless they're the new Keane or Scholes, the club doesn't seem to want to know. That's why the midfield's in decay. We don't need world class players to improve, considerably, on what we currently have."Is he better than Cleverley/Anderson?" should not be the benchmark to which we hold future signings.
Yep.Totally, but that was all Fergie, Moyes has just walked through the feckin door.
Anderson has been hit and miss at best, Hagreaves was a complete failure. Fletcher stepped up to the plate brilliantly, but we'll never see the best of him again. Cleverley has very little consistency to his game at the moment (though I do have high hopes). We lost Pogba based on a moral crusade (looking at his Juve progress, we definitely got the thin end of that wedge).
We've routinely played non-midfield players in there, and it's been a case of us getting by on defensive obduracy and moments of attacking brilliance, certainly from about 09 onwards. The midfield just isn't up to scratch and it's been clear as day for years.
Don't discount how importance Fergie's genius has been in keeping us dominant, despite the midfield issues.We don't know that, this policy has still seen us win 2 out of the last 4 titles and finish the other two pretty much as close as we could be. I agree we should have signed someone but I don't neccessarily think we should just sign someone who would be a bit of an upgrade. As I said above, Cleveley with a full seasons experience can be as impactful as Dembele imo.
I don't disagree that the midfield needs improvement, my problem is people ignore previous signings based upon the fact they didn't turn out how we would have liked with hindsight, which is invalid in terms of the argument they are making. Improvements were made.Yeah, six years ago.
It's also the same decade we've had to constantly resort to using defenders, full backs, wingers and forwards in our midfield to make up the numbers, we've had to bring a 37 year old out of a retirement, continuously rely on a now 40 year old and been incredibly reliant on Michael Carrick, all the while continuing to buy a surplus of strikers, defenders and to a slightly lesser extent, wingers.
We've won so much in the last seven years despite our midfield, not because of it. I'm not sure how people continue to use this same old tired argument about a position that is a clear weak spot in our squad and has been for quite some time now.
Or we thought he was only worth a certain amount of money?
Six years ago.I don't disagree that the midfield needs improvement, my problem is people ignore previous signings based upon the fact they didn't turn out how we would have liked with hindsight, which is invalid in terms of the argument they are making. Improvements were made.
We don't know that, this policy has still seen us win 2 out of the last 4 titles and finish the other two pretty much as close as we could be. I agree we should have signed someone but I don't neccessarily think we should just sign someone who would be a bit of an upgrade. As I said above, Cleveley with a full seasons experience can be as impactful as Dembele imo.
Actually, you and everyone here presents their opinions as fact in order to make their argument look or seem stronger. If you don't want to have your opinions criticised in such a manner, I suggest you make clear they are opinion.Erm, really? Because we haven't signed anyone or even tried to sign players that would improve us there? No I don't know we're chasing an unattainable player but that is my opinion and I am allowed to express it without adding "IMO" after every sentence. Just as much as "But we must have had some encouragement from the barca camp" is another person's opinion. Either could be right.
Problem is, our benchmark is set too high. Unless they're the new Keane or Scholes, the club doesn't seem to want to know. That's why the midfield's in decay. We don't need world class players to improve, considerably, on what we currently have.
I'm not shifting my argument at all. Of all the midfielders we've bought in the last ten years (not many), they've been a fecking disaster except Carrick.I don't see what your point is here? Your argument was that we haven't bought in the central midfield area and now you're using hindsight to say the purchases we made, which disproves your argument, weren't right. You're changing the argument here to suit your prejudice. I mean we could even tenuously link Kagawa to a central midfield purchase, seeing as his best position is probably between the lines, behind the striker.
I'm not one to say we don't need improvement in the midfield. I think we definitely lack a bit of depth there particularly in the defensive midfield position but I'm not going to come here and say our policy regarding the central midfield is pathetic, when we have clearly sought to change our depth in midfield via both purchases and promotions through the reserve/youth team. You're using a blinkered outlook that changes the goal posts based upon your prejudices.
Actually, you and everyone here presents their opinions as fact in order to make their argument look or seem stronger. If you don't want to have your opinions criticised in such a manner, I suggest you make clear they are opinion.
Very difficult to say...considering that a lot of things happen behind the scenes. Maybe who knows, perhaps Fellaini had agreed to move to us or Arse, weeks ago but agreed to make it public just before the start of the season .If I were Fellani I might feel I am only last resort backup option for United, whereas Arsenal seem to show strong interest from day 1. This is no good, players play for dignity too, and we might end up lossing both. Lets hope we somehow pull the miracle in Fabregas transfer.
It's changing the goalposts of the argument. It's entirely wrong to discount the signings just because in hindsight they didn't turn out how we wanted. If you were to say we are arguing about the club's delayed reaction in making changes and improvements, then it's entirely valid but to quite simply say "The club hasn't bothered to improve the midfield" when we did is wrong.Six years ago.
How many defenders, strikers and wingers have we purchased in those six years?
Also, I'm not sure what's wrong with discounting those signings, other than Carrick they were all failures, if the attitude of a club was "well we bought the players, they didn't work but we did buy them, so that'll do, let's not buy more" then I'd be a tad worried.
When was the last midfield improvement made?I don't disagree that the midfield needs improvement, my problem is people ignore previous signings based upon the fact they didn't turn out how we would have liked with hindsight, which is invalid in terms of the argument they are making. Improvements were made.
