Decades Draft Tournament : AldoRaine18 vs Brwned

[Moby]

The aim of this poll is to decide which team will come on top in a fantasy match played with all the players at their peaks.

AldoRaine18's tactics

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The team is not a lot different from last time. 4-2-3-1.

Scirea is a straight swap for Hansen, doing the same job just a lot better than him. If anyone is capable of raising the game of his team it is him. Expect the defense to be completely organized. Vidic is the hard man as before. Thuram has the same role, will track Ronaldo all over the pitch, since Ronaldo cuts inside, it will be in Thuram's comfort zone.

Rijkaard and Big Dunc are marshalling the middle of the park. Since Zizou and Laudrup playing deeper, no need of any man marking, just cut out any service they provide. Them with Scirea behind them will starve Romario of the service. Big Dunc will be in his comfort zone doing his box to box role charging forward with the ball and covering as much ground as possible.

Zico is the attacking midfielder, running at Neeskens. Gullit on the right will stay in attack a lot more as I am comfortable in midfield, and he won't have to help much. Muller's the number 9, nothing to be explained.

Cruyff has the most important role in the game. He will be playing in a free role as a support striker and have all the license in the world to take on players with his insane dribbling and control and set up chances. Gerets is out of his depth against him and Stam would need to help him out leaving space in the middle. Imagine a Lionel Messi circa 08-09 only on the left.

I leave you with this piece of delight to watch. You won't regret.

TEAM AldoRaine18​

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TEAM Brwned​

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Brwned's tactics

Germany 1972 reborn - with Garrincha and Ronaldo replacing Kremers and Heynckes and Laudrup and Zidane - two of the greatest playmakers the game has seen - replacing Hoeness and Netzer. Goals galore with that kind of creativity and a Romario at the top of his game.

The setup is exactly the same as that Germany side which has an argument of being the sexiest footballing side in history and the first time the world witnessed the beginnings of total football. Beckenbauer dictating things from defence with Stam slotting in for Schwarzerbeck perfectly as the imposing, mobile stopper. Without Breitner there's no longer the same pace and energy in attack but Schnellinger's defensive prowess - which saw him later play as a sweeper - will form a very solid defence alongside the ever-reliable Eric Gerets.

Neeskens comes in to play Wimmers' all-action defensive role which made Neeskens a key part of that totaalvoetball side and his energy, intelligence and organisational skills will similarly tie this extremely fluid midfield together. Netzer and Hoeness - two classic #10s - are ably replaced by two of the most elegant players you'll ever see in Laudrup and Zidane. This side is teaming with creativity from those two alone.

Garrincha will destroy pretty much any fullback he comes up against - hence him only losing one of his 50 games for Brazil. In this case it's the woefully unprepared Zambrotta he's toying with. Ronaldo's a goalscoring machine, no matter who he's playing against he'll get his goal(s) with the quality supporting him. 202 goals in 202 games for Madrid - it's that simple. With Heynckes as a traditional forward playing out wide while Wemers took on the traditional wing duties, it's again a straight player swap with the roles staying the same. Romario is the only rival to Muller's crown as the greatest goalscorer in history, and with this kind of creativity supporting him you'd be hard-pressed to argue he's any less likely to score.

Germany 1972

"Winning the World Cup was my greatest thrill," Schon would say in retirement, "but I think the team of 1972 was the best I ever sent out, fulfilling all my expectations with that marvellous win at Wembley."

Germany beat England on their own ground for the first time since 1908 and with an extremely inexperienced young team all while playing a brand of football that French football magazine L’Equipe called “Dream football from the year 2000.”

In 2011, German publication Sport Bild ranked Germany’s win in 1972 as the greatest performance by a German team out of 850 international matches.

Lineup for the 1972 final:

 

[Moby]

will be lucky to get 10 votes total. Need to keep bumping I guess.

 

[Theon]

Aye should have delayed a day or two, let things cool down

 

[Fergus' son]

What do you make of the Beckenbauer and Stam partnership, Aldo?

 

[Brwned]

Beckenbauer v Cruyff all over again and no-one's here to see it. Shame.

 

[kps88]

Poor Neeskens has quite the job on his hands.

 

[Moby]

Beckenbauer v Cruyff all over again and no-one's here to see it. Shame.

It was Vogts vs Cruyff though.

 

[Moby]

What do you make of the Beckenbauer and Stam partnership, Aldo?

Not a big fan of Kaiser as a CB. Would go forward eventually and with Stam tied up by Cruyff Muller will have space.

 

[Brwned]

It was Vogts vs Cruyff though.

Depends. I could've been talking about Ajax-Bayern game in '73 when Cruyff and co. tore them apart. I wasn't really talking about a straight matchup, just the two 70s giants matching up to one another again. Though they'll be facing each other quite a lot in this game I suspect.

 

[Moby]

Poor Neeskens has quite the job on his hands.

It's unbalanced really. At this stage against top attacking players you need a lot more bite and defensive ability. Zidane and Laudrup are barely offering anything.

And Neeskens himself alone is not someone who can take care of Zico alone.

Fact is that I have a lot more ball winning ability and a deadly attack to go with it. Once I have the ball more often than not I'd end up hurting him with it.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

It was Vogts vs Cruyff though.

Which Vogts won. If you recall the 1974 matchup, Cryuff started brightly, but it was Beckenbauer's tenacity that won in the end with Vogts keeping Cryuff quiet. Correct?

 

[Moby]

Yes.

 

[Gio]

I prefer Aldo's pragmatism and balance, but Garrincha v Zambrotta is a hell of a mis-match and will likely leave Scirea scampering across to cover, leaving Romario up against Vidic, probably the worst striker in the draft for him to play against.

 

[Moby]

I prefer Aldo's pragmatism and balance, but Garrincha v Zambrotta is a hell of a mis-match and will likely leave Scirea scampering across to cover, leaving Romario up against Vidic, probably the worst striker in the draft for him to play against.

The issue for him is his midfield can get overrun here due to which Cruyff will have the ball a lot more than Garrincha and he's going to hurt Gerets just as much. Neeskens as the lone DM there is a big problem, bigger than Zambrotta.

 

[Interval]

I can summarise this: BRWND will score 20 - IF he gets the ball long enough

 

[Moby]

I can summarise this: BRWND will score 20 - IF he gets the ball long enough

Sort of yeah. I see both attacks equally deadly in terms of goals, creativity and match winners, the midfield is a mismatch though in terms of balance with and there's not much use of having firepower if your engine is weak. There's no platform for his attack to perform well.

 

[Interval]

Sort of yeah. I see both attacks equally deadly in terms of goals, creativity and match winners, the midfield is a mismatch though in terms of balance with and there's not much use of having firepower if your engine is weak. There's no platform for his attack to perform well.

He has enough in his defense to hold you out though.

 

[Moby]

He has enough in his defense to hold you out though.

Fair enough. I obviously disagree though, you can go through the video I posted in the OP, Gerets has no chance against Cruyff on his own and Kaiser's willingness to go forward leaves Muller all open. Plus Neeskens as the lone DM isn't idea against a player like Zico. He'd struggle. To sit deep and absorb a great attack you need good defensive midfielders. Zico's in top 5 AMs of all time and having a free run here.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Aldo's team is better balanced, but the key question here is....Can Brwned score more than he will let in?

 

[Interval]

Fair enough. I obviously disagree though, you can go through the video I posted in the OP, Gerets has no chance against Cruyff on his own and Kaiser's willingness to go forward leaves Muller all open. Plus Neeskens as the lone DM isn't idea against a player like Zico. He'd struggle. To sit deep and absorb a great attack you need good defensive midfielders. Zico's in top 5 AMs of all time and having a free run here.

It should be tight. But Stam on Muller with Beckenbauer to sweep behind the full backs/ Neeskens or move ahead to allow Neeskens to join defense to attack. All on the supposition that Stam would be good enough to handle Muller.

 

[Moby]

Aldo's team is better balanced, but the key question here is....Can Brwned score more than he will let in?

As I said in the OP, the midfield battle is in my favour. That will cut off most of his supply. Zidane's not suited to a deep role in midfield neither is Laudrup, and in RIjkaard and Edwards I have two solid players who can own that area of the pitch with ease. Add to that Scirea's one of the greatest when it comes to reading the game which means service for Romario is going to be pretty much dire.

 

[Fergus' son]

Muller cant be 'handled', he will definitely score, more than one IMO looking at the set up of the two teams.

 

[Moby]

It should be tight. But Stam on Muller with Beckenbauer to sweep behind the full backs/ Neeskens or move ahead to allow Neeskens to join defense to attack. All on the supposition that Stam would be good enough to handle Muller.

Cruyff will be taking on Stam a fair amount of times. He is having a free role and will be the support striker for most of the game so Stam will need to move out and cover for him when he's on the run which leaves Muller open. Neeskens while hard working he was doesn't have the defensive ability to stop Zico alone.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Midfield is Aldo, Brwnd has the wings... I Suppose a lot of it for me pivots on Garrincha vs Zambrotta...but as someone above said, Muller will more than a bloody handful

 

[Balu]

Fair enough. I obviously disagree though, you can go through the video I posted in the OP, Gerets has no chance against Cruyff on his own and Kaiser's willingness to go forward leaves Muller all open. Plus Neeskens as the lone DM isn't idea against a player like Zico. He'd struggle. To sit deep and absorb a great attack you need good defensive midfielders. Zico's in top 5 AMs of all time and having a free run here.

Why do you think that will happen? Beckenbauer was incredibly disciplined whenever the game was important. He was brilliant as a centerback in 72 and happily stepped aside and let Netzer run the show, because he always did what's best for the team. That 72 team worked because Beckenbauer at his best was an incredible defender more than anything else, his reading of the game was brilliant, his positioning was flawless. Not once mentioned Brwned in his tactics that Beckenbauer will contribute in attack and with the players infront of him, Beckenbauer surely won't get annoyed that they don't create enough. That would be the only reason for him to run forward.

 

[Moby]

Why do you think that will happen? Beckenbauer was incredibly disciplined whenever the game was important. He was brilliant as a centerback in 72 and happily stepped aside and let Netzer run the show, because he always did what's best for the team. That 72 team worked because Beckenbauer at his best was an incredible defender more than anything else, his reading of the game was brilliant, his positioning was flawless. Not once mentioned Brwned in his tactics that Beckenbauer will contribute in attack and with the players infront of him, Beckenbauer surely won't get annoyed that they don't create enough. That would be the only reason for him to run forward.

I did not question his discipline, but do you think he is best suited to be the one take care of Muller 1v1 when Cruyff is creating chaos on the other side?

Moreover, is the midfield shield good enough to protect the defense from Zico and Edwards bombing forward?

 

[Red-Indian]

Who does Brwned have in reserve? I fear Zidane-Laudrup may be overkill and leave too much to do for Neeskens as well as impose too much discipline on Beckenbauer. A second defensive midfielder or a five man defense sacrificing one of Laudrup or Zidane would be just the ticket. Does he have any though within the constraints of the decades rule?

 

[Theon]

Why do you think that will happen? Beckenbauer was incredibly disciplined whenever the game was important. He was brilliant as a centerback in 72 and happily stepped aside and let Netzer run the show, because he always did what's best for the team. That 72 team worked because Beckenbauer at his best was an incredible defender more than anything else, his reading of the game was brilliant, his positioning was flawless. Not once mentioned Brwned in his tactics that Beckenbauer will contribute in attack and with the players infront of him, Beckenbauer surely won't get annoyed that they don't create enough. That would be the only reason for him to run forward.

Cheers for this Balu, heard so much conflicting accounts of Beckenbauer I'm very interested in hearing what a Munich fan has to say on him.

Earlier in the draft it was said by someone he would be best as a centre mid, is this true? What was he like as an actual centre back, lots of people have said he needs to be part of a three man defence, but here he is a two man defence, so would that work fine?

Didn't he play in a two man defence when Munich won all those European Cups on the bounce, three in row IIRC?

 

[Balu]

I did not question his discipline, but do you think he is best suited to be the one take care of Muller 1v1 when Cruyff is creating chaos on the other side?

Moreover, is the midfield shield good enough to protect the defense from Zico and Edwards bombing forward?

That's a completely different point. You wrote twice that Beckenbauer would go forward and leave Müller open, that won't ever happen in this game. I'm not as convinced as you are that Cruyff will create chaos, Gerets will annoy the shit out of Cruyff. And Beckenbauer will cover a lot of space back there while always having an eye on what's happening behind him. I usually prefer Beckenbauer in midfield in these draft games, but Brwned uses him perfectly and it's no coincidence that Beckenbauer won the Ballon d'Or while playing exactly that role.

 

[sajeev]

Vidic will get ragged by Romario! No such glaring weaknesses at the other end

 

[Moby]

That's a completely different point. You wrote twice that Beckenbauer would go forward and leave Müller open, that won't ever happen in this game. I'm not as convinced as you are that Cruyff will create chaos, Gerets will annoy the shit out of Cruyff. And Beckenbauer will cover a lot of space back there while always having an eye on what's happening behind him. I usually prefer Beckenbauer in midfield in these draft games, but Brwned uses him perfectly and it's no coincidence that Beckenbauer won the Ballon d'Or while playing exactly that role.

And what about Neeskens being the lone DM against Zico with Edwards bombing forward?

 

[Theon]

That's a completely different point. You wrote twice that Beckenbauer would go forward and leave Müller open, that won't ever happen in this game. I'm not as convinced as you are that Cruyff will create chaos, Gerets will annoy the shit out of Cruyff. And Beckenbauer will cover a lot of space back there while always having an eye on what's happening behind him. I usually prefer Beckenbauer in midfield in these draft games, but Brwned uses him perfectly and it's no coincidence that Beckenbauer won the Ballon d'Or while playing exactly that role.

Why is he used perfectly here?

Not questioning you just trying to learn more about him really

 

[Moby]

TO be honest it is pretty annoying to get no credit for having balance in the team. Laudrup and Zidane as CMs against Rijkaard and Edwards are a car crash. This is hardly any different from Stob's all in in the last draft for which he got slaughtered. Garrincha and Romario will do anything if they get the ball for a long amount which is hardly happening as opposed to a devastating attack continuously bombarding the defense not protected properly at all and having two of the best goal scorers of all time with "pythagoras in boots" creating chances and havoc.

 

[Balu]

Cheers for this Balu, heard so much conflicting accounts of Beckenbauer I'm very interested in hearing what a Munich fan has to say on him.

Earlier in the draft it was said by someone he would be best as a centre mid, is this true? What was he like as an actual centre back, lots of people have said he needs to be part of a three man defence, but here he is a two man defence, so would that work fine?

Didn't he play in a two man defence when Munich won all those European Cups on the bounce, three in row IIRC?

Most of the time it was a centerback pairing of Schwarzenbeck and Beckenbauer, yes, but the game was different back then and Bayern needed him to do more than just defending and being a very deep lying playmaker. We lacked a lot of creativity in the attacking third compared to other great teams, so Beckenbauer got more freedom than anyone else and a lot of protection from midfield. The great German playmakers at that time - Netzer and Overath - never played for Bayern, so his role in the nationalteam was a bit different. I usually prefer him in midfield in these draft games, because today's game is so much faster, that I think it wouldn't be possible to play the libero like he did back then and most people will judge player on how they fit in today's game.

Why is he used perfectly here?

Not questioning you just trying to learn more about him really

Basically because he has given him enough to do. Play him as a normal centerback with a lot of protection in midfield and he will be bored, then you want him to move forward and contribute in attack, but then - like I said above - I think he should start in midfield. In Brwned's team he has to make up for the lack of protection, his game reading skills will be incredibly important to keep Aldo from scoring.

 

[Balu]

TO be honest it is pretty annoying to get no credit for having balance in the team. Laudrup and Zidane as CMs against Rijkaard and Edwards are a car crash. This is hardly any different from Stob's all in in the last draft for which he got slaughtered. Garrincha and Romario will do anything if they get the ball for a long amount which is hardly happening as opposed to a devastating attack continuously bombarding the defense not protected properly at all and having two of the best goal scorers of all time with "pythagoras in boots" creating chances and havoc.

I really like your team, and I'm a big big fan of balance. Your midfield is put together wonderful. I was just reacting to you saying twice Beckenbauer will move forward eventually, which I doubt would happen in that game. I'm also not convinced that you'll have more possession. You have the better ball winners, but Brwned's team looks way more comfortable in possession. Chasing the ball off Beckenbauer, Zidane and Laudrup is incredibly difficult.

 

[Red-Indian]

Hmm...just realised Brwned does have Thiago Silva. Not an alltime great defender but good enough. I wonder if the below wouldn't be a bit more balanced?

Romario
C Ronaldo-Laudrup-Garrincha
Beckenbauer-Neeskens
Schnellinger-Silva-Stam-Gerets
Jennings

Laudrup over Zidane for his partnership with Romario. It would get more out of Beckenbauer as well as compete toe to toe with Rijkaard-Edwards for the ball. Silva/Stam would have it tough dealing with Zico-Muller but with Beckenbauer playing deep and helping out, I think they could cope.

 

[Moby]

I really like your team, and I'm a big big fan of balance. Your midfield is put together wonderful. I was just reacting to you saying twice Beckenbauer will move forward eventually, which I doubt would happen in that game. I'm also not convinced that you'll have more possession. You have the better ball winners, but Brwned's team looks way more comfortable in possession. Chasing the ball off Beckenbauer, Zidane and Laudrup is incredibly difficult.

Which is why two of the best defensively capable midfielders are on the job, it is not like I am telling everyone some average joe is going to do that. Moreover their combined lack of defensive effort combined with the fact that Neeskens alone is not suited to deal with Zico running at him all game will result in me being at ease when winning it back and keeping it more. Once my midfield is knocking it around it is only Neeskens tasked to win it back till it reaches the defense where Beckenbauer steps in. During that time on the ball with the ultimate total footballer in Cruyff having a free role and disrupting the whole right side of defense it will be a mammoth task to keep Muller from scoring.

You look at Zidane and how he has always had two immense defensive midfielders for example Davids and Deschamps at Juve providing the platform for him to be at his best, not when the lone DM is not even comfortable in his role and is not up to the task of winning the ball and giving him back as much as he wants.

 

[Balu]

You're underrating Neeskens, Beckenbauer will help out with Zico's runs and I don't think your setup is anything like total football either, it's just the brilliant footballer Cruyff playing as a wide playmaker.

 

[Gio]

I'm not as convinced as you are that Cruyff will create chaos, Gerets will annoy the shit out of Cruyff.

Not a bad point given Cruyff himself rated Gerets as the best right-back on Europe.

 

[Fergus' son]

I agree a lot with Aldo about Neeskens, he has a huge burden on him and even if he can manage it, half his game is lost using him as the sole defensive player aside from the actual defenders.