Darren Fletcher | 2013/14 Performances

[Red Hand Devil]

You've scared them away now.

No-one gives a monkeys what i say, so dont fret aul son. Post it & they will come...

Give it a day or two & it'll be found somewhere else. I've searched quite a bit there & couldnt get a cracked copy sorry..

 

[coolredwine]

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/sport/football/Premiership/article1390729.ece

Can anyone who has the subscription to this post the full article?

 

[Gladiator]

Can someone with access to The Times post the full story please. Sounds very interesting http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/sport/football/Premiership/article1390729.ece

@Mel_F mel, we need you

 

[Ekeke]

He was better than his normal performances this season, still room for improvement

 

[Fiskey]

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/sport/football/Premiership/article1390729.ece

Can anyone who has the subscription to this post the full article?

I bought the paper today and read it, he's basically an incredible bloke. Suppose most interesting thing would be that he says that as he's missed 3 pre-seasons the club have a really well worked out program for this summer including lots of weights to get him back to his best.

 

[kps88]

Many thanks to Nasher001 from the noobs has come to the rescue! He also wanted me to promote him which was a bit awkward.

Darren Fletcher just didn’t like the stat. A doctor’s leaftlet outlined the risk of spinal damage if he had an epidural. “It was one in 500,000 or something,” he says. “Massively against. But I recognised the number. It was similar to the ratio of people who suffer ulcerative colitis.” So, he decided to have major bowel surgery without pain relief. Three times.

Only when Fletcher takes you through his story does the extreme mental toughness become clear. Only when you hear the gory, life-or-death details of tackling extreme colitis do you appreciate what sufferers go through, what families go through. And how useful that Fletcher takes Scottish matter-of-factness to the nth degree. “Get on with it,” is a stock phrase.

“I don’t want any sympathy from anyone,” he asserts. Now he is back on the pitch and in health, at last, after three and a half years of debilitating struggle, the pressure is coming from his twin boys Jack and Tyler, seven. “They ask why I’m not playing more. I have to explain that. Why’s my Fifa [video game] rating so low? Why’s my Match Attack card rating so low? I’ve got to deal with all of this now,” he grins.

If Fletcher had his way he would just play football. No interviews. Certainly no photoshoots on a balcony at Carrington with teammates walking by. But he feels “a responsibility” to use his example to help the UK’s 260,000 sufferers from colitis and the associated condition, Crohn’s disease. On Thursday, at Old Trafford, he is hosting a dinner in aid of United for Colitis, his fundraising initiative.

Fletcher is dreading the speech because it could take him into touchy-feely territory. There are so many people he wants to thank: his wife, Hayley; his parents; teammates; Sir Alex Ferguson; David Gill; friends doing a charity bike ride from Edinburgh to be there; Pete Sagar, the specialist in Leeds who did those epidural-free operations. The last, in August, finally freed him from illness. “He’s a hero to me,” Fletcher says. “He’s the man who saved my life, career, however you want to put it.”

Back in 2006-7 health worries were for other people. Fletcher was flying. An emerging force in a young United team en route to the title, he didn’t think much after a prolonged stomach upset and seeing traces of blood and mucus in his faeces. It was the first attack of ulcerative colitis. His parents read up on the disease. “But I was blasé. A little immature. I took some pills and it went away. I was playing in the Premier League, fit as a fiddle, didn’t want to show weakness.”

Fletcher regrets not taking that attack more seriously. Most colitis sufferers can control it through medication: Sir Steve Redgrave and Lewis Moody are sporting examples. “My advice would be to realise how devastating an illness it can be and try and nip it in the bud. Keep taking your medication even if you’re feeling fine. Because it does creep up on you and, as I found, once it gets to a certain level there’s no controlling it.”

The symptoms returned in September 2010 — with full force this time. Severe colitis sufferers might visit the toilet 30 times a day and can lose so much blood and fluid they periodically need hospital and a drip. That was Fletcher. Scary? “Oh yeah. It got really scary at points. More for my family. Looking back, Hayley was a saint.

“I wasn’t a good person to be around. I put on a brave face at training but not always at home. Being around the house [and not playing] I took all my frustration out on her.” He tried dietary changes and then medications. The sideeffects “were not so much depression but that real low. You don’t want to see anybody, even your wife and kids. The drugs numb you.”

He would have settled for recovering enough just to be a dad again. “The boys were too young to understand. We could always make up a story [to hide he was going to hospital]. I was on many a coaching trip.

“I’d be off on a Sunday and they’d go to their Little Kickers [class]. I’d want to give my wife a lie-in but find it wasn’t possible for me to get them ready and out of the door. A few times I’ve had to come back in, wake Hayley and say, ‘I can’t do it’. That’s literally getting in my car, making it 50 yards down the street and having to turn back.

“When they played ... you know what it’s like when there are 20 pitches and they’re on the pitch furthest away [from the changing rooms and a toilet]. I couldn’t go. But it gave me even more determination to beat it. Just to stand by a pitch. Take them to school. That would have been worth all the treatment.”

Fletcher was unlucky. No drugs worked. For six months he did not train or play. That didn’t work. He delayed surgery to give every last drug a go. “Your operation is a last resort. There’s no going back. It’s when you’ve tried all medications and your quality of life is almost non-existent. Potentially you can die [from colitis]. People do, if you keep letting your body poison yourself. The only thing that controls it at that point is steroids, very high doses, and the doctors said if I tried that my body would shut down.

"Your bowel can explode because it’s so inflamed and under such pressure. That’s what they were worried about with me. I could be driving up the motorway to Edinburgh, my bowel could perforate and I’d have no chance.”

He was ready for the knife, positive, believed surgery would work. Drawing on a sportsman’s mindset, he made it “me versus colitis. I didn’t want to let this stop me. I worked hard to become a professional. My family sacrificed a lot. I wasn’t about to give up on that lightly.”

A funny thing: when he was ill but still trying to play, those minutes on the pitch were the only time he felt symptom-free. But the days after games were bleak, wiped out. “Was it worth it? Always. I was playing for Manchester United.”

Ferguson was “honestly ... more than a manager. He was a different level. I was conscious of contracts. I went to him and said, ‘I’m ill and not playing . . .’ He looked at me like I was mental. He said forget about football. Just get well for your kids and your family. I was listening and he was saying it ... but there’s a football pitch behind him, through his window. And I can see all his trophies and his pictures. I’m thinking, ‘Forget about football?!’”

They agreed, for a while, to hide the condition from teammates. “To avoid, ‘Why’s he playing? He’s ill’. We’d see if the medication worked.”

In the end, at dinner with the squad after a defeat in Basel in 2011, Fletcher came clean. Ever since, teammates have been supportive. He expected far more banter. “A real sensitive bunch of lads here,” he laughs. He also jokes that at least all the years of toilet dashes were “maybe good for my sharpness”.

He is blown away by the generosity of colleagues. Michael Carrick’s brother-in-law, a singer, is providing entertainment on Thursday. Carrick, Wayne Rooney and Jonny Evans are auctioning the chance to play golf with them. Other players are auctioning use of Old Trafford boxes. “I didn’t expect anything else from Manchester United,” says Fletcher. “This is a special place.”

He woke from his final operation to hear, through a haze, television commentary of England v Scotland. He would have captained Scotland. Four weeks later he was back in training and in December returned to the first team as a substitute in a win at Aston Villa. “I’m getting there,” he says. “I’m feeling stronger and fitter all the time. I don’t want this to sound cocky, but I’ve actually surprised myself in the few [11] games I’ve played, how well I’ve done.

“I’m the same as any player who hasn’t played for 18 months and missed the last three pre-seasons. I can’t wait for this pre-season. I’m going to train hard all summer. I have good weights and dietary programmes to get my strength back. David Moyes has been great but I feel like I’m starting my career again, like I’m 19, coming into the team, new manager. Every little opportunity, every training session I have to prove what I can do.”

Last week Fletcher helped to steady United in the nervy final minutes against Olympiakos. United’s senior players see this as a time to step forward — off the pitch, too.

“The team don’t like what’s happening this season. The biggest thing, and I felt it, there’s been no real celebration since Olympiakos. No, ‘Wow, we’re back’. There’s a lot of work to do. At the end of the game it was, ‘Listen lads, we’ve done nothing’. We’re in the Champions League but our league position doesn’t give us any right to make out we’re back.”But Fletcher is. Thinking of what he used to tell his boys he laughs. “The ‘coaching courses’, they’re long gone. I’ve done all my badges now!”

Jack and Tyler and Hayley, friends, teammates, Ferguson, Doc Sagar and the Stretford End he says has “been amazing” in this troubled season can watch him playing football again. Now to increase his Fifa rating and that Match Attack score. He has taken on bigger challenges.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Can't believe he turned down anaesthesia when he had his bowel op. That's staggering. The pain must have been unbelievable.

 

[Lu Tze]

Can't believe he turned down anaesthesia when he had his bowel op. That's staggering. The pain must have been unbelievable.

Probably just as risky without anaesthesia, I'd guess. Risk of moving due to pain when the surgeons were messing around? Maybe he meant local vs general?

 

[The Red Thinker]

It's incredible. I can't even imagine having to go through three surgeries without relief! It's torture.

The man must have a heart made of iron. He has a very pure courageous heart. He also has a very pure love for United. That's one reason why we should never let him go to any other club. Even if he's a squad player, players like him are invaluable to the club and the dressing room. He's the embodiment of inspiration and you don't sell inspiration.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Probably just as risky without anaesthesia, I'd guess. Risk of moving due to pain when the surgeons were messing around? Maybe he meant local vs general?

He'll have had a general regardless. The epidural would have been offered to help with the pain when he woke up. Must have been exruciating coming round without one.

 

[Chorley1974]

I read this is the Times today, he comes across very well, and it's clear he will give everything for the club. It would be easy for him to hide in this scenario, but he clearly has an appetite to go beyond what is comfortable for him.

 

[bugmat]

The man is a warrior - he's about 70% back to what he was, but that may be enough for a role off the bench etc. To even be back is stupendous from him. 3 surgeries on his bowels!

 

[Lu Tze]

He'll have had a general regardless. The epidural would have been offered to help with the pain when he woke up. Must have been exruciating coming round without one.

The article made it sound like he was awake throughout the whole thing!

"he decided to have major bowel surgery without pain relief". I see in hindsight it could be interpreted to mean post-op, but it's a bit misleading. Still mental, though.

 

[Gladiator]

that's why i want him as our captain even if it wont happen. amazing person.

 

[Stack]

The man is a warrior - he's about 70% back to what he was, but that may be enough for a role off the bench etc. To even be back is stupendous from him. 3 surgeries on his bowels!

I think he is a bit higher than 70% back, he isnt too far away from being the player he used to be. i think we will see him at his best with a decent preseason in him. The good news is that there is no reason he cant get back to where he was.

 

[#07]

that's why i want him as our captain even if it wont happen. amazing person.

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[Gladiator]

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meh moyes is just heaping more pressure on himself if we're to believe whats in the DM there

 

[Mickeza]

Ogden is saying the same regarding Fletcher, that he'll go this summer if we get a good offer, which just seems to be a nice way of telling clubs he's for sale. If we are bringing in 2 central midfielders then one of Carrick, Cleverley and Fletcher has to go, so from a footballing perspective it does make sense, very sad though, I'm convinced that without the illness Fletcher would be our captain. Moyes is fighting for his job though, I guess he can't let sentimentality get in the way.

 

[Kag]

Ogden is saying the same regarding Fletcher, that he'll go this summer if we get a good offer, which just seems to be a nice way of telling clubs he's for sale. If we are bringing in 2 central midfielders then one of Carrick, Cleverley and Fletcher has to go, so from a footballing perspective it does make sense, very sad though, I'm convinced that without the illness Fletcher would be our captain. Moyes is fighting for his job though, I guess he can't let sentimentality get in the way.

From a footballing perspective, Fletcher is a hell of a lot better than Cleverley, as well as one of the most experienced, well-respected heads in the dressing room. Cleverley survives due to age by comparison, which in this case is wrong. Moyes would be very silly to let Fletcher leave, given that Rio, Evra, Vidic and Giggs will also leave. Silly, and again, for me, irritating that better players will leave the club while the shite could well remain.

 

[#07]

Ogden is saying the same regarding Fletcher, that he'll go this summer if we get a good offer, which just seems to be a nice way of telling clubs he's for sale. If we are bringing in 2 central midfielders then one of Carrick, Cleverley and Fletcher has to go, so from a footballing perspective it does make sense, very sad though, I'm convinced that without the illness Fletcher would be our captain. Moyes is fighting for his job though, I guess he can't let sentimentality get in the way.

I find it strange that we are willing to cut Fletch off, especially as he has not actually played badly. Plus at 33 there's a big question over how long Carrick has left at the top. Cleverley needs an immense confidence injection to get anywhere back to his best, he's been generally terrible this year. Fellaini hasn't pulled up many trees. Jones is being redeployed at centre-half, as he should be. If you asked me who I'd keep for the future out of the bunch of them Fletch would certainly be near the top of that list.

 

[Brophs]

As much as I like Fletcher, it'd be tough to persuade your chairman to spend a decent fee and big wages on a guy with his health problems.

 

[#07]

From a footballing perspective, Fletcher is a hell of a lot better than Cleverley, as well as one of the most experienced, well-respected heads in the dressing room. Cleverley survives due to age by comparison, which in this case is wrong. Moyes would be very silly to let Fletcher leave, given that Rio, Evra, Vidic and Giggs will also leave. Silly, and again, for me, irritating that better players will leave the club while the shite could well remain.

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[Pogue Mahone]

Ogden is saying the same regarding Fletcher, that he'll go this summer if we get a good offer, which just seems to be a nice way of telling clubs he's for sale. If we are bringing in 2 central midfielders then one of Carrick, Cleverley and Fletcher has to go, so from a footballing perspective it does make sense, very sad though, I'm convinced that without the illness Fletcher would be our captain. Moyes is fighting for his job though, I guess he can't let sentimentality get in the way.

I think sentimentality is also getting in the way of a lot of opinions about Fletcher's performances this season. I've always been a big fan of his but he's looked absolutely miles off the pace every time I've seen him play (apart from one reserve game, where he looked ok). His touch has been heavy, he's taking far too long to release the ball, isn't snapping into tackles the way he used to and generally looks a shadow of his former self. Cleverley's this season's scapegoat but his (admittedly rare) good performances have been far better than anything we've seen from Fletch.

It would be great if he could get back a lot closer to his best and I guess that's possible. In the ST article he was talking about how much he's looking forward to getting a full pre-season under his belt. That might make a difference. Can see why Moyes might not be willing to take that gamble but I'd like to see him find a way to keep a place in the squad free for Fletcher. Guess it will depend who else comes in/out meanwhile.

 

[Kag]

As much as I like Fletcher, it'd be tough to persuade your chairman to spend a decent fee and big wages on a guy with his health problems.

Really? The majority of clubs in the Premier League would be straight in for him. I'd like to see him move abroad and play some Champions League if he is to be let go, he's still more than good enough for that level.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Really? The majority of clubs in the Premier League would be straight in for him. I'd like to see him move abroad and play some Champions League if he is to be let go, he's still more than good enough for that level.

The Darren Fletcher from 5 years ago, almost certainly. From this season, not a chance.

 

[Kag]

The Darren Fletcher from 5 years ago, almost certainly. From this season, not a chance.

I think you're being harsh, he's been fine this season given the circumstances. Not that it matters much given our season so far, but he's played better than Carrick and Cleverley. Fletcher could easily head to a Champions League club and sit in front of the defence. I'm not talking the Munich's of this world, but he'd do very well at any tier 2 club. The idea that he is infact a mid table player is untrue.

I'd sooner sell Carrick before Fletcher. Cleverley, likewise. The former isn't a leader, is older and slower, and the latter isn't good enough.

 

[Mickeza]

I find it strange that we are willing to cut Fletch off, especially as he has not actually played badly. Plus at 33 there's a big question over how long Carrick has left at the top. Cleverley needs an immense confidence injection to get anywhere back to his best, he's been generally terrible this year. Fellaini hasn't pulled up many trees. Jones is being redeployed at centre-half, as he should be. If you asked me who I'd keep for the future out of the bunch of them Fletch would certainly be near the top of that list.

I think, well I hope, Moyes wants a dynamic midfield with lots of energy to implement a proper pressing game. We all want the Fletcher of old but presumably they know more behind the scenes about whether that's possible. He did his job efficiently against West Ham, but is that good enough? Putting sentimentality aside is that level high enough to compete for a league title? And Europe? The question shouldn't be is he better than Cleverley (I'm not convinced current Fletcher actually is), the question should be is he good enough for where we want to get to, and I think the answer is no. I love Fletcher, I wanted him as club captain next season, but the thought about him being let go did cross my mind, I didn't think Moyes would have the balls to do it though.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Would be silly to let Fletcher go, he's an excellent presence to have in the squad even if he's better suited to a squad role now. Not liking how this rebuild seems keen to get rid of all the big personalities in the dressing room, there's no denying the likes of Evra, Fletcher, Ferdinand, Vidic etc. aren't at the levels they were previously but they should all have reduced squad roles at least. It seems like an awful lot of experience will have left the club come this August and that's worrying.

 

[Rozay]

I think sentimentality is also getting in the way of a lot of opinions about Fletcher's performances this season. I've always been a big fan of his but he's looked absolutely miles off the pace every time I've seen him play (apart from one reserve game, where he looked ok). His touch has been heavy, he's taking far too long to release the ball, isn't snapping into tackles the way he used to and generally looks a shadow of his former self. Cleverley's this season's scapegoat but his (admittedly rare) good performances have been far better than anything we've seen from Fletch.

It would be great if he could get back a lot closer to his best and I guess that's possible. In the ST article he was talking about how much he's looking forward to getting a full pre-season under his belt. That might make a difference. Can see why Moyes might not be willing to take that gamble but I'd like to see him find a way to keep a place in the squad free for Fletcher. Guess it will depend who else comes in/out meanwhile.

I agree with your assessment fully. Contrary to what everyone seems to have said this season, Fletch has looked far from the level required for any elite club.

There is no chance he is better than Cleverley at present. It would make sense for him to leave this summer in my view. We need two more in the middle. He hardly plays as it is, and after Anderson would be the most logical choice from a footballing perspective. In fact, Anderson is better than him anyway (and better than Cleverley too in my opinion) but I think Clev and Fletch would be the logical choices.

I doubt he would want to retire now, otherwise I would suggest he could continue the good work he was doing coaching our youth. I think he could get a lot more football and still show some quality at our current retirement home at Sunderland for example.

 

[Rozay]

Would be silly to let Fletcher go, he's an excellent presence to have in the squad even if he's better suited to a squad role now. Not liking how this rebuild seems keen to get rid of all the big personalities in the dressing room, there's no denying the likes of Evra, Fletcher, Ferdinand, Vidic etc. aren't at the levels they were previously but they should all have reduced squad roles at least. It seems like an awful lot of experience will have left the club come this August and that's worrying.

So who do you propose is let go then? Keep all the mid thirties players and get rid of the younger ones?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think you're being harsh, he's been fine this season given the circumstances. Not that it matters much given our season so far, but he's played better than Carrick and Cleverley. Fletcher could easily head to a Champions League club and sit in front of the defence. I'm not talking the Munich's of this world, but he'd do very well at any tier 2 club. The idea that he is infact a mid table player is untrue.

I'd sooner sell Carrick before Fletcher. Cleverley, likewise. The former isn't a leader, is older and slower, and the latter isn't good enough.

Completely disagree.

We're talking a smaller sample of games but Fletcher hasn't come close to playing as well as either of those two in the games when they've played well. He's been poor in every competitive game I've watched him in, bar none.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

So who do you propose is let go then? Keep all the mid thirties players and get rid of the younger ones?

I'd have kept Vidic, Evra and Fletcher should stay. Reduced squad roles, cup games and certain Premier League games. Rio can go and Giggs should retire. Obviously the issue here is Evra and Vidic are unlikely to accept such roles.

 

[Rozay]

I'd have kept Vidic, Evra and Fletcher should stay. Reduced squad roles, cup games and certain Premier League games. Rio can go and Giggs should retire. Obviously the issue here is Evra and Vidic are unlikely to accept such roles.

I think a more important question is whether Vidic is even good enough to still play for us. He is likely to be a worse player for us next season than he has been this year, and even that hasn't been good enough. I'd rather cup games are given to players like Michael Keane than Vidic.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'd have kept Vidic, Evra and Fletcher should stay. Reduced squad roles, cup games and certain Premier League games. Rio can go and Giggs should retire. Obviously the issue here is Evra and Vidic are unlikely to accept such roles.

Vidic didn't want to stay (despite being offered a new contract) and Evra's performances have really dropped off a cliff this season. He relies so much on his athleticism, when the end came it was always going to be sudden.

Which leaves Fletcher. I'd like to find a way to keep him. His performances haven't done him any favours though.

 

[Kag]

Completely disagree.

We're talking a smaller sample of games but Fletcher hasn't come close to playing as well as either of those two in the games when they've played well. He's been poor in every competitive game I've watched him in, bar none.

Read the comments in this thread from page 16 onwards. He was good on his return, most notably against Swansea. You're completely exaggerating this. He was also good the other day. Fulham away and the Villa? game aside, I can't think of many good games Cleverley has had. As for Carrick, his best game has been at centre back.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Read the comments in this thread from page 16 onwards. He was good on his return, most notably against Swansea. You're completely exaggerating this. He was also good the other day. Fulham away and the Villa? game aside, I can't think of many good games Cleverley has had. As for Carrick, his best game has been at centre back.

I'm aware of those comments. I disagree with them.

I think sentimentality is also getting in the way of a lot of opinions about Fletcher's performances this season.

Re Carrick, you're really not paying attention if you think he hasn't had any games in midfield better than his last appearance in central defence. Besides, that's not even my point. He's put in a number of performances much better than anything we've seen from Fletcher. IMHO.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Vidic didn't want to stay (despite being offered a new contract) and Evra's performances have really dropped off a cliff this season. He relies so much on his athleticism, when the end came it was always going to be sudden.

Which leaves Fletcher. I'd like to find a way to keep him. His performances haven't done him any favours though.

As Fletcher said he's not had a pre-season for 3 years, I'd like to think after how we've stuck by him already we can afford him some time. Also whilst I agree he's not been as good as he was I still think relatively he's been good comparative to our other midfielders, it's gotten to a stage where if one of our midfielders pass it forward I get excited.

 

[Kag]

I'm aware of those comments. I disagree with them.

Re Carrick, you're really not paying attention if you think he hasn't had any games in midfield better than his last appearance in central defence. Besides, that's not even my point. He's put in a number of performances much better than anything we've seen from Fletcher. IMHO.

Fair enough, although I'm not sure why. He was't outstanding but there's no way he was "poor." Carrick was good against Palace, and probably a few other games, but Fletcher has looked more purposeful when he's played, I would say. We'll have to agree to disagree on this I think.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Fair enough, although I'm not sure why. He was't outstanding but there's no way he was "poor." Carrick was good against Palace, and probably a few other games, but Fletcher has looked more purposeful when he's played, I would say. We'll have to agree to disagree on this I think.

Yeah, opinions an' all that.

I just think Carrick's overall contribution is getting under-rated by a lot of people because he was so good last season and we expect more from him. Conversely, Fletcher's getting over-rated because we're all so pleased to see him back and desperately want him to do well.

It's kind of arrogant of me to think I can analyse performances without being influenced by these biases so I suppose it's definitely possible I've got it all completely wrong.

 

[Scarecrow]

He was on the verge of retiring a year ago. Today he starts in the biggest game of the season, against the best team in the world. Inspiring.