Not a United fan then.
That Everton game.
- Thread starter Julian Denny
- Start date
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Not a United fan then.
My personal take is that before matches I feel I'd take defeats to get rid of Moyes because that makes sense given what I think about him, but during when matchday comes along I cant help but want the team to do well because, well, it would just seem odd wanting the team to lose. But logically speaking, I do share that view.
Just as much as you.
I want us to win this game and win well as winning form is good form and we can build for the next season.
I feel the same. In fact I am almost sure most in this thread who are shouting about being "true fans" feel similar about Moyes. I really find this spouting of "you are not a true fan" nonsense cringeworthy. Making these threads may not make us like RAWK. But trying to drown an opinion because it seems different from the rest (when it actually isn't) definitely smacks of RAWK.
The problem is, the very fact this needs to be posted shows how pointless it is even joining this thread.
The caf has become a haven for people who are more obsessed with getting Moyes out than anything else - every other thread is slagging off our supporters for supporting him (!) or slagging off Fergie for chosing him, or just slagging him off for existing.
Such bullshit.
Wanting your team to win whenever they play isn't Rawkish, it's just a very basic part of nbeing a fan (of any club). The fact that so many on here are prepared to sit watching a match hoping we lose shows how much the collective insanity has taken hold.
You utter, utter bell*nd!
Why bother even saying you support United. Glory hunting fool...
I want us to win, and win the other 4 remaining games.
feck wanting United to lose. I never want United to lose. Even if winning meant Liverpool won the title. I don't really give a toss about other teams. I want us to finish the season in good form and on the highest of possible highs, which isn't really all that high, but hopefully it will give the players motivation to kick on in pre-season and do a much better job next season.
feck wanting United to lose. I never want United to lose. Even if winning meant Liverpool won the title. I don't really give a toss about other teams. I want us to finish the season in good form and on the highest of possible highs, which isn't really all that high, but hopefully it will give the players motivation to kick on in pre-season and do a much better job next season.
Which foundations are you talking exactly? The solid foundations that SAF had allegedly built, based on a strong core of British players, a great youth academy and a group of experienced winners?(The same foundations which up to few months ago everyone was praising and hyping). Or are you referring to the foundations referred by Moyes, which include an ageing and mentally weak team which according to Dave, 'even SAF would struggle to win with (despite the man has won the league comfortably last year)'?
I tell you what I believe. We had a team which was in decline for quite some time. The strategy taken which basically relied on the old guard and 'safe bets' from the EPL has crippled the side. SAF was one of the main reasons why we kept winning. However despite such weaknesses, any manager with some brains would have managed to take this club to top 4. Thats what the majority of fans, media and critics were expecting and that's the target Moyes had to achieve.
Apart from Januzaj entrance and Rooney's signing a new contract (which came at a great price because it seems that not even Christ himself can put Wayne on the bench these days), Moyes contribution at OT was a parody of mistakes. He sacked a proven coaching staff to replace them with a bunch of no bodies who havent won anything in their life. He spent 27m on a player whose got average written all over him. He seem to struggle to keep control of the dressing room with players like Vidic leaving and others like Evra and RVP allegedly unhappy and he took the club to 7th place and with no hopes of winning anything. Critics has called this Evertonisation because the club seem turning blue with each passing day. Well we're exactly in the same spot Moyes Everton tend to be.
I repeat name me one club who would have allowed their manager to retain his place despite taking the champions to a humiliating 7th place. I am sure that you will refuse to answer this question because there arent any. If you ask me, whats keeping Moyes in his place is not because we do things 'differently' or because Moyes is facing a 'different situation altogether' (ie leading a team which had dominated the EPL scene for years and which suddenly it turned crap). Whats keeping Moyes there is the ego of two legends in the club and their fear of admitting of messing it up, which may well pave the way for the money men to starting taking action regarding football matters rather then delegate it to our 'experts'
Name me one club that has had a manager for almost 30 years??? I am sure that you will refuse to answer this question because there aren't any! That's what makes this situation for us unique. SAF was a special manager. He's ingrained into the club. He got 110% out of most players, even the average ones. Not even the Mourinihos, Wengers of this world could do that without spending money on world-class players. The problem Moyes has is that he is working in a club that is built on SAF's image. It's certainly not a bad thing but if Moyes wants to build a team in his own image, he will have to change things around. People were expecting Moyes to keep the majority of the staff on-board, thus, expecting him to reach top-4. This didn't happen and it's had a negative effect in the short run. Therfore, we're sitting lower than where many people expected us but that was on the basis Moyes wouldn't change much of the coaching set up.
Many people, even United fans will admit that, yes, we won the league by 11 points but we did so via RVP. He was injury-free last season and we reaped the benefits. This season he has gone back to suffering injuries that have kept him out for weeks so we have been unable to rely on RVP, which has cost us. We shouldn't just be relying on one player anyway. It needs to be a collective team and Moyes knows this. Mata/Kagawa have struck up a good relationship so I really hope Moyes sees that and decides to build the team around those 2. Bring in a few world-class players, notably in defence and midfield and we could be looking at a very good United team next season.
All I want from the last few games is for the team to go out there, play as a team, win with some conviction and make a statement going into next season. Everton have done well this season under Martinez but that shouldn't stop United from going out there believing that we are the better team, regardless of league position. Moyes tactics some games have been bad but come the summer, he'll do a post-mortem on his tactics/formations and look to improve next season. He'll have a better idea of how he wants to play during the summer. He just needs to grow a set and make those tough decisions that will define his managerial career. SAF will tell him that if he hasn't done so already. The line between success & failure is sometimes decided by decisions to take a risk or play safe. Moyes has played safe too many times this season but if he starts to take those risky options next season, it could bold well for him.
Bring on Everton. Our away form has been awesome this season. I'm confident we can get a win and finish this season strongly.
I choose to not be a part of either the "Moyes-in" or the "Moyes-out" brigade. I have read some ridiculous arguments from both sides this season. On one hand, the transition period (this alone can't explain the woeful football we've watched this season), longevity (the reason we didn't appoint someone like Mourinho or Ancelotti, really?) & problematic squad (give Moyes this Liverpool team next season and let's see what happens) cards have worn out and are really tiring.
On the other hand, it's frustrating reading posts like the OP. These last couple of months posts like these have flooded the Cafe, something that, in my eyes at least, has become annoying. First we had people hoping we got eliminated by Olympiacos, then some were wishing for City to hammer us at OT, after that some of our fans "expected" that a 0-10 aggregate vs Bayern Munich would be the answer to our woes. Now this?
I never wanted Moyes to succeed SAF and i will never understand this holier than thou attitude which led the board into the conclusion that an unproven (at top level) manager should replace the greatest manager in the history of the game. But i don't believe that the Glazers or Sir Alex & Sir Bobby are stupid. It's true that Moyes will have more time than any other manager at any other club to turn things around here . But come on people, if the end of next season finds us at the same point we are now, he'll go.
We all feel nervous and tense because it's been a very long time since our club was in such a bad position, and the possibility of Liverpool winning the title only a year after Ferguson's retirement has definitely made things worse. Next weekend we go at Goodison Park for what seems to be Everton's most important game and our manager's worst nightmare of the season. Call it foolish pride, but i want us to go there and win.
Furthermore this one and the game against Southampton away are the best tests for us until the end of the season. I know we have nothing to play for and the pressure's off right now, yet i still expect us to show some improvement, regarding the style of play. In the last 2 league games we played more direct football, we scored 8 goals and Moyes seems willing to change his "2 flat lines" tactic with the introduction of Kagawa in our starting xi and the better usage of Mata on the pitch. If we finish our season with 7 straight wins, he will surely understand that his beloved flat 4-4-2 is not the way to win major trophies. Think positive guys!!!
On the other hand, it's frustrating reading posts like the OP. These last couple of months posts like these have flooded the Cafe, something that, in my eyes at least, has become annoying. First we had people hoping we got eliminated by Olympiacos, then some were wishing for City to hammer us at OT, after that some of our fans "expected" that a 0-10 aggregate vs Bayern Munich would be the answer to our woes. Now this?
I never wanted Moyes to succeed SAF and i will never understand this holier than thou attitude which led the board into the conclusion that an unproven (at top level) manager should replace the greatest manager in the history of the game. But i don't believe that the Glazers or Sir Alex & Sir Bobby are stupid. It's true that Moyes will have more time than any other manager at any other club to turn things around here . But come on people, if the end of next season finds us at the same point we are now, he'll go.
We all feel nervous and tense because it's been a very long time since our club was in such a bad position, and the possibility of Liverpool winning the title only a year after Ferguson's retirement has definitely made things worse. Next weekend we go at Goodison Park for what seems to be Everton's most important game and our manager's worst nightmare of the season. Call it foolish pride, but i want us to go there and win.
Furthermore this one and the game against Southampton away are the best tests for us until the end of the season. I know we have nothing to play for and the pressure's off right now, yet i still expect us to show some improvement, regarding the style of play. In the last 2 league games we played more direct football, we scored 8 goals and Moyes seems willing to change his "2 flat lines" tactic with the introduction of Kagawa in our starting xi and the better usage of Mata on the pitch. If we finish our season with 7 straight wins, he will surely understand that his beloved flat 4-4-2 is not the way to win major trophies. Think positive guys!!!
Maybe you should read before replying. I said during the week I actually end up feeling that if we have a massive defeat it could spell the end of Moyes and we could get a manager who knows what to do with this squad and get us back to winning ways. But as soon as the match starts, I cannot root for the other team. No way is that possible for me.
And what I meant as RAWKish was the shooting down of an opinion which may not be the most popular. Also, I am sure a fair few voted for losing a match if that meant Moyes is shown the door. So it is not that outlandish a claim.
Well that's sane at least... but why let yourself get into this idea before the match that you'll want us to lose? Of course you won't (unless you're mental), it defeats the whole point of being a football fan.
Well you've answered your own question there. The vocal majority in here all want Moyes oyut at any cost and plenty are agreeing with the idea of wanting us to lose.
But being widely held doesn't make an idea any less outlandish.
The 27 year old thing is BS. The reason being that the vast majority of the staff had changed throughout the years. Also its not as if the players have lived in a vacuum. Many players have worked and done well with other managers (either at other clubs or with their national team). A substantial number of them had only been with SAF for just 3-4 years. Its not as if these guys would end up lost because SAF has left. However considered many of them are used to top managers, they may feel disillusioned if suddenly a mid EPL table type of manager/staff had control over their career. Anyway even if thats the case there's nothing to justify that the team who were recently crowned champions would end up at 7th place and in any circumstances at any club, the manager in question would end up sacked without any second thought.
Taking the best out of people is what management is all about. When a good manager is appointed he doesn't fire all the people in it and build it in his own image. What he does is to lead the people at his disposal and bring results. If the likes of Martinez could do that with Everton then surely Moyes can do the same with Manchester United players, ie people who were handpicked by a legend and who had proven themselves that they can win important honours. Am I right?
I never expected Dave to win important honors in his first year. I actually believed that he would end up 4th. Under such circumstances I would still have hopes in him. However I can believe how Moyes can expect the club to have trust in him and back him up with 100-200m to build the squad in his 'image' (what does that mean exactly, becoming more like Everton maybe?). We're talking about a person who took the champions to 7th place and burdened the club with all kinds of pathetic excuses (the players are not up to it, SAF left an ageing squad, the FA gave him alot of tough games earlier in the season etc). Seriously he should feel lucky that he wasn't kicked out of OT.
If you ask me, Moyes may (and I stress on may) edge this out because sacking him would make Charlton and SAF look bad and would give the chance to the money man to step into football matters, something the old guys wouldn't like. There's more at stake than simply sacking a manager who turned out to be caught out of depth. No wonder why Moyes feel in a position to utter ridiculous things against the current side and SAF rather then hide under a rock hoping that he's not noticed. As stated no manager under his circumstances would survive the day.
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And leave the lunatics to run the asylum? I don't think so.
I hope they go 4-2 up with fifteen minutes to go, meaning they're well on course to claiming that fourth place they desperately want. And then Fellaini wakes up.
To a United fan there's only one 'that Everton game'.
To a United fan there's only one 'that Everton game'.
I understand what you are saying and frankly speaking I don't want to feel like that, but it has got to the point where I don't see Moyes taking us forward to where we should aim to be. So in that context, I sometimes do end up thinking if losing now would actually be beneficial long term. But those things pass away swiftly.
That's the point. It is a widely held notion here, but the moment someone actually types his thoughts down we have people rushing in with their rather poor taunts of that person not being a "true fan", whatever that even means. That is all I am pointing out to. Everyone has their own opinions and that's what makes this forum great. But then we have some who are quick to start pointing fingers of being poor fans is what actually irates me.
Are you claiming to be the warden then? You are the perfect specimen of a lunatic in this analogy. Cannot think of anyone else being right apart from yourself!
Same bullshit was spewed before City, Liverpool, Olympiakos, Munich games and probably a couple others I forgot to mention.
One result won't magically change Glazers' mind, it won't matter shit. Writing's already on the wall for him or there is nothing that could suggest that he'll be sacked and it won't change in the upcoming games.
Wanting United to lose is pathetic and inexusable.
One result won't magically change Glazers' mind, it won't matter shit. Writing's already on the wall for him or there is nothing that could suggest that he'll be sacked and it won't change in the upcoming games.
Wanting United to lose is pathetic and inexusable.
And gets sent off for elbowing Barkley in the face?
There's far too much complaining about what other fans will or won't "let them say" in here - I don't buy into it on either side.
Everybody has their own oppinion - people should express theirs, and feel free to oppose others'. But once it gets to all this bollocks of crying about being victimised for having an opinion... meh, leave that to Devilish.
Yeah, the guy with 600 odd posts is going to "run" this place. Lunatic talk right there.
Leave discussions you despise. It tends to make people happier oddly enough.
Ridiculous idea that people should only post in threads where they agree with the general premise. If you're going to start a thread which might be controversial you should expect comments from people who not only disagree with your opinion but also think the whole thread is a bit shit. Anyone who has a problem with that needs to man the feck up or stop making new threads.
Although, to be fair, the caftard who started the thread has yet to start whinging about anyone saying mean stuff in his thread.
Although, to be fair, the caftard who started the thread has yet to start whinging about anyone saying mean stuff in his thread.
Agree with most of this. Threads and posts like this have come up for a lot of the recent big games. Have these guys been wishing we should have lost all of those games?
Whether Moyes remains or is thrown to the dogs is the decision of the board. I just hope we win every fecking remaining game.
It's good for threads to have people who disagree with the viewpoint the thread starter proposed. Otherwise this place to be dull as feck with everyone just agreeing with each other in single threads. Comment such as "this thread is bullshit" are a bit pointless though and make no real contribution to the discussion at all. Although, this thread probably isn't the one for high intellectual debate anyway.
If you're idly wishing for stuff, why not for Moyes to start doing a better job and for us to win all of our remaining games?
I hope the Everton fans give Moyes so much shit that he breaks down in tears and quits halfway through the match.
This is the shocking bit really. For fans of a team who had been led by a man who was the ultimate winner for over two decades, one bad season and some of us are wishing we lose games?
Unfortunately said ultimate winner is seeing his life's work wrecked by an imbecile and not doing anything to rectify the situation.
I don't think we need to lose a game for it to be clear Everton have made significant progress while we have done the opposite. Cut the nose to spite the face and all that, feck that.
We have a run of fixtures where we can play without a care in the world and start finding some confidence and who should stay/go for next season. That's far more important than this masochistic notion that further humiliation is our saviour. It isn't, being shat on is never a good thing for the club or the squad going into the next season, whoever the manager in charge may be.
We have a run of fixtures where we can play without a care in the world and start finding some confidence and who should stay/go for next season. That's far more important than this masochistic notion that further humiliation is our saviour. It isn't, being shat on is never a good thing for the club or the squad going into the next season, whoever the manager in charge may be.
I've seen this a number of times and while I can obviously understand the thinking behind a thread like this, I certainly do not agree with it.
I do think Moyes is overwhelmed in his position and I am unsure if this scenario can/will change. It is all rather difficult for him in reality though. Too many people use the easy out of 'he took over title winners'. I know he did - but with all due respect, there are more than a couple of those lads who have had their day in the sun. The addition of the Summer mess did not help at all either. Everton's current run entirely epitomizes everything. I do really feel sorry for him. He must feel like the universe is out to get him. If we could get the likes of Klopp - I'd be massively happy. Van/Boer would be exciting also. From a human point of view - I'd love Moyes to shut every one of us up!!
Anyways, don't be stupid - why want United to lose? Especially to more Liverpool mugs!
I do think Moyes is overwhelmed in his position and I am unsure if this scenario can/will change. It is all rather difficult for him in reality though. Too many people use the easy out of 'he took over title winners'. I know he did - but with all due respect, there are more than a couple of those lads who have had their day in the sun. The addition of the Summer mess did not help at all either. Everton's current run entirely epitomizes everything. I do really feel sorry for him. He must feel like the universe is out to get him. If we could get the likes of Klopp - I'd be massively happy. Van/Boer would be exciting also. From a human point of view - I'd love Moyes to shut every one of us up!!
Anyways, don't be stupid - why want United to lose? Especially to more Liverpool mugs!
I think the answer to that has already been unequivocally answered already.
What we need now is not losing games, it's Nike or some of the main sponsors making ultimatums to the Glazers.
It's football kid....
Indeed. Things were 'reasonable' till that game but everything went to absolute crap after that.
This time last season, it was Terry who the whole country believes to be finished, guess what happens with him when they have a great manager in charge?
The summer mess was caused in part by Moyes, did Woodward tell him to go after Fabregas? or was that his choice? Did Woodward refuse to make more viable signings? Did Woodward tell Moyes to wait till the last few minutes to try to sign Coentrao or was it Moyes who wanted his buddy Baines so much he screwed it up?
We don't need to 'hope' we lose against Everton. We WILL lose. And probably at Southampton too
But we should give Moyes time, because he's only failed in EVERY big test this season. Defeat magnet.
But we should give Moyes time, because he's only failed in EVERY big test this season. Defeat magnet.
Are you Woodward?