British + Irish Draft (Barney/Joga vs Edgar) Group D

[crappycraperson]

----------------------------Team Barney/Joga--------------------------------------------vs--------------------------------------Team Edgar

Barney/Joga's tactics -

Tactics

DEFENSE

At the heart of our defence we have Ronnie Simpson, Neil Franklin and David O'Leary.

Simpson is one of the finest keepers that Scotland has produced and renowned for being an integral member of the Lisbon Lions. He was a talented, agile shot stopper who was extremely comfortable in possesion and sweeping up in style if needed.

Spoiler: Against Inter

In an European cup final against Inter of all places

Shielding him is an impregnable wall, manned by two two well-rounded centre backs in Neil Franklin and David O'Leary. Neil Franklin's responsibilities lie in ensuring that any aerial threats that pose problems are dealt with and also keeping an eye on the centre forward.

O'Leary is responsible for starting attacks from the back and making sure that the entire team plays on the front foot (which starts from the back). His coolness on the ball and his well-rounded game will ensure that while he will have some responsibility on the ball, he will also be able to defend at the highest level when asked to do so, with his exemplary reading of the game and composed defending.

At right back, Jimmy Armfield will be tasked with not only providing defensive solidity, but also bombing forward and ensuring that there is width when Liddell cuts inside.

In order to cover ourselves against any counter attacks, Scotland legend and versatile left back John Greig will be asked to play a more defensive tucked in role ala Abidal at Barca. We expect both of our full backs to have fairly comfortable roles as EAP's side is one that lacks natural width. This and Greig playing a defensive role should easily allow Armfield to play a more attacking game while also remaining responsible and solid at the back. He will be tasked with keeping an eye on McManaman to restrict his influence.

MIDFIELD

In front of our defence and at the heart of our team we have two of the greatest British midfielders of all time. In Graeme Souness and Paul Scholes we have a brilliant combination of steel, guile and creativity. Souness was one of Liverpool's three greatest players in an era where they dominated English football. Souness will be asked to play a slightly more defensive game in order to ensure that we are not found defensively lacking. While he will be tasked with playing a deeper role, he will occasionally be allowed to drive the entire team forward as well as get on the ball in order to utilise his wonderful passing range and creative assets.

In tandem with Souness, Paul Scholes will be playing a deeper playmaking role. Scholes found a lot of success playing this role for Manchester United. The Ginger Prince will dictate the tempo of the game with his supreme spatial awareness and frankly absurd passing range. The Sat Nav's creativity from deep and his trademark 40 yard back-spinned pings will provide chance after chance for our dangerous wingers and they will leave his fullbacks isolated as they lack consistent cover.

On the left wing we have a magician in John Barnes. Arguably Liverpool's most naturally gifted player of all time, allowing this man to have the ball will be suicide. Barnes is capable of creating something out of nothing and can put the chance away himself or put someone else in on goal. His creativity and flair will be vital for us.

Marauding on the right flank, we have Billy Liddell. Liddell will start from a wide position, but will drift centrally and into the box at times in order to help put chances away. Liddell was a two-footed, multi faceted goalscoring forward capable of the utterly sublime and ridiculous forcefulness at the same time. Once he got going, he was an unstoppable force capable of tearing apart any defense on his day. He averaged approximately 1 in 2 playing from a wide position.

FORWARDS

Up front we have the perfect blend of creativity and sheer ruthlessness. Playing just off of McGrory as a second striker, Kevin Keegan will be wreaking havoc. He'll be in the thick of it, be it dropping deep, aggressivly pressing and driving forcefully forward with his pace, trickery and verve or finishing off a move aplomb himself.

Spearheading the attack we have the human torpedo Jimmy McGrory, a Scottish legend who only needs one chance for the ball to end up in the back of the net and virtually guarantees a goal every start. Having the 8th highest goalscorer and the greatest British goalscorer in the history of the game means that the chances created by Keegan, Barnes, Souness, Scholes, Armfield and Liddell will certainly end up in the back of the net.

Spoiler: KEY POINTS

1) Great industry, strength and tenacity of our attacking players will give us an edge in most battles. There is no doubting their skill, searing pace or attacking prowess but Keegan, Liddell and Barnes combined it with terrific work rate and physique which would make them a thorn in any defense for the entire 90 mins.

2) Kevin Keegan will prove to be a vital influence here. At his peak he finished runner up and won 2 Balon d'Or in 3 years. He was THE driving force for Liverpool and won 3 league trophies, 2 Uefa Cups, an European Cup and a FA cup in his 6 year stay. Keegan then led minnows Hamburg to their first title in 19 years. He was a big game player and has scored in countless finals. This talisman will prove to be a pest in MJJ's team with his superb all-round game.


3)Lack of genuine width and wing threat in EAP's team will aid us here. Aside from McManaman his side is too centrally oriented. Gemmell and Cohen were great attacking full backs capable of providing width, single handedly against most sides. However, here they are up against 2 wide players who simply can't be left alone even for a single moment. His numerical advantage in the middle becomes less black and white with Greig tucking in and his midfielders having to help out his full backs to prevent too many dangerous 1 on 1 situations with our irrepressible wingers.

4) His play could become stifled and strangulated with too many centrally oriented players.

5) We also are sceptical about the balance of EAP's side. The likes of Brady, Gascoigne and McManaman are excellent creative ball players who are capable of the sublime. Even if one or two of his players have good work rate, it doesn't mask the serious lack of steel and defensive nous in that midfield.

As great as Stiles was, there is only so much one defensive midfielder can do. Unless, he plays Emlyn Hughes in midfield and Brown at the back which wouldn't be a smart move. Let's be honest what is Brown even doing in an all time British draft? He was good but there are countless better unpicked centre backs out there.

Ultimately we feel there are too many creative flair players and a lack of defensive players which creates a lack of balance, resulting in an absence of solidity as a whole.

6) The core of our team is as strong and complete as it comes. Franklin, O'Leary, Scholes, Souness, Keegan and heck even our keeper are comfortable in possesion and accomplished passers. This means the team is equally adept at carving open defences and at winning back the ball with its defensive prowess and all round industry.


7) There will be many box to box, roy of the rovers midfielders (and we do sincerely believe we have the best of the lot in the talented Souness) but how many central midfield playmaking maestros of Scholes genius are there really in this draft? Scholes and Souness will dominate and overwhelm just about any midfield. He is also surrounded with intelligent ball players and passers which will only make his task much easier. Scholes providing for Barnes and Liddell is bound to result in something sooner or later even against the sternest of defenses.

Spoiler: Souness tribute

Spoiler: Scholes tribute

Player Profiles

We've also done detailed write ups on certain players if you are interested

BILLY LIDDELL
JIMMY ARMFIELD
JOHN GREIG
NEIL FRANKLIN
WILF MANNION
JIMMY MCGROGY

 

[crappycraperson]

Edgar's tactics-

Team Formation:
4-1-3-2

Core Strategy:
A solid defensive line, protected by one of the best DM in this draft lay the anchor for a creative, dynamic and flexible midfield to supply the deadly duo upfront.

Defence:

Gemmell .. Hughes .. Mcgrath .. Cohen

A solid CB pairing of Hughes/McGrath form the heart of the defence. They are flanked by the rampaging duo of Gemmell / Cohen, bot of whom are adept and comfortable in moving up and providing width as well in addition to solid defending.


Midfield:

......... Gascoigne ............
... Brady ... McManaman ...
............ Stiles ................

Nobby Stiles, the man who marked the great Eusebio out, provides the defensive shield from the holding midfield roles that he was so successful at. A total no nonsense defender who will stick to his tasks like a bulldog, his presence will in snuffing out opposition attacks and protecting the defence will make scoring against my team quite difficult.

Building on the solid defensive foundation, both Brady and McManaman are versatile to play Wide or Attacking midfield. Hard working and highly creative, they are partnered by Gascoigne, the most naturally gifted English midfielder of his generation. Between these three, they have the key to unlocking any defence my opponent can throw at me.

Attack:

... Mark Hughes ... Michael Owen ...

United fans do not need introduction to either. Both are incredible goal scorers. Owen in his Balon d'Or winning prime is lethal inside the box, and he is perfectly complemented by Mark Hughes.

 

[crappycraperson]

@Edgar Allan Pillow
@Barney
@Joga Bonito

 

[antohan]

This is really hard. I really liked some of Barney/Joga's picks along the way like O'Leary and that Scholes-Souness midfield. Really enjoyed reading the profiles on plaayers I knew little about...

But EAP's side really works for me. It's so cohesive and well balanced... I can imagine exactly how they would go about things and they would play some really beautiful football.

I suppose there will be much discussion on his midfield and whether it isn't too gung-ho. I would usually think that when it's a really random assortment but those four look and feel like a unit to me, would love to watch them in possession. Maybe they would struggle against other midfields, but not the one faced here.

 

[crappycraperson]

This is really hard. I really liked some of Barney/Joga's picks along the way like O'Leary and that Scholes-Souness midfield. Really enjoyed reading the profiles on plaayers I knew little about...

But EAP's side really works for me. It's so cohesive and well balanced... I can imagine exactly how they would go about things and they would play some really beautiful football.

I suppose there will be much discussion on his midfield and whether it isn't too gung-ho. I would usually think that when it's a really random assortment but those four look and feel like a unit to me, would love to watch them in possession. Maybe they would struggle against other midfields, but not the one faced here.

Same.

 

[Gio]

Edgar's team is very well crafted while Barney/Joga's squad is very well drafted.

 

[Jammydodger7]

These are two great teams! Can't choose at the moment!

 

[crappycraperson]

Edgar's team is very well crafted while Barney/Joga's squad is very well drafted.

I can start out match if you send me the write up.

 

[antohan]

Edgar's team is very well crafted while Barney/Joga's squad is very well drafted.

Nailed it.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Nailed it.

I agree. Edgar will definitely hurt through the middle, whenever Souness pushes up Gascoigne will cause loads of damage in that space and his driving run and pace, together with Michael Owen makes for one heck of a counter attack. Sparky will provide the hold up and just one touch it to Owen or Gazza in full pace, it all looks very natural.

On the other side Souness forward runs will be up against one of the two best pure DM's in the draft in Nobby Stiles. For me the main question here is if McManaman and Liam Brady will keep Barnes and Liddell from having top performances out wide.

How does the managers plan on lining up defensively, what will be the role of each player.

 

[antohan]

I agree. Edgar will definitely hurt through the middle, whenever Souness pushes up Gascoigne will cause loads of damage in that space and his driving run and pace, together with Michael Owen makes for one heck of a counter attack. Sparky will provide the hold up and just one touch it to Owen or Gazza in full pace, it all looks very natural.

On the other side Souness forward runs will be up against one of the two best pure DM's in the draft in Nobby Stiles. For me the main question here is if McManaman and Liam Brady will keep Barnes and Liddell from having top performances out wide.

How does the managers plan on lining up defensively, what will be the role of each player.

That's what he has fullbacks for. Helping out, supporting, pressing when receiving deep... they can do that competently, but ultimately the ones who have to stop the wingers having top performances are the fullbacks. That's their job, not Brady's or McManaman's.

 

[Annahnomoss]

That's what he has fullbacks for. Helping out, supporting, pressing when receiving deep... they can do that competently, but ultimately the ones who have to stop the wingers having top performances are the fullbacks. That's their job, not Brady's or McManaman's.

Of course the full backs will be the ones up against the wingers, but I don't see them keeping Liddell and Barnes quiet here unless they get a great support from Mc'n'Brady.

 

[Barney]

That's what he has fullbacks for. Helping out, supporting, pressing when receiving deep... they can do that competently, but ultimately the ones who have to stop the wingers having top performances are the fullbacks. That's their job, not Brady's or McManaman's.

Barnes will take Cohen apart as he's simply a better player. If Gemmell does not get help, then he'll be exploited as we have Armfield bombing on to support Liddell.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Barnes will take Cohen apart as he's simply a better player. If Gemmell does not get help, then he'll be exploited as we have Armfield bombing on to support Liddell.

Barnes is a better player, but taking Cohen apart is nonsense. Cohen has operated in similar setup's successfully and acting as if he will suddenly cease to exist in front of Barnes is fantasy.

For me the main question here is if McManaman and Liam Brady will keep Barnes and Liddell from having top performances out wide.

Both of the are comfortable out wide and have operated as wingers in a 4-4-2 set up. I don't think any player can 'keep Barnes/Liddel quiet' but whatever support you can expect from midfield these two will provide. Cohen has operated in wingless setup in his WC winning days and so can be trusted to hold things up.

I would say that my team is much more fluid than Barney's. When defending you have two hard working midfielders who will contribute and when in possession we also attack as a unit. It would me more of a smoother transition and not a 1v1 matchup. Watch clips of Brady. He is just so lethal in that left wing. Him and Gazza feeding Hughes/Owen gives me far better chance of scoring against his defence, than he has against mine. And I will definitely score more than him.

EAP 2 - 1 Barney

 

[Barney]

Barnes is a better player, but taking Cohen apart is nonsense. Cohen has operated in similar setup's successfully and acting as if he will suddenly cease to exist in front of Barnes is fantasy

He won't cease to exist, but Barnes will have a lot of joy down that flank if he's up only against Cohen.

gives me far better chance of scoring against his defence, than he has against mine. And I will definitely score more than him.

It doesn't though. The way your team is set up will leave you exposed down the flanks. You will score, you have too many attackers not to, but that will also play into our hands when we attack. And saying your team will definitely score more is just another way of saying you'll definitely win.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

He won't cease to exist, but Barnes will have a lot of joy down that flank if he's up only against Cohen.

It doesn't though. The way your team is set up will leave you exposed down the flanks. You will score, you have too many attackers not to, but that will also play into our hands when we attack. And saying your team will definitely score more is just another way of saying you'll definitely win.

No way. Yes you have dedicated wingers, but as I mentioned both Brady and McManaman are versatile and have played as wingers. They are hard working and will drift out wide when off possession to support the defence. Cohen is no pushover and will limit Barnes greatly and with Stiles and support from midfield, I don't think it is a weakness at all.

With just Souness there, Gazza and Brady will just have far more joy than Barnes ever could. These two are so creative and with that lethal pair upfront, I don't see you stopping me from scoring at all.

 

[antohan]

Barnes will take Cohen apart as he's simply a better player. If Gemmell does not get help, then he'll be exploited as we have Armfield bombing on to support Liddell.

It doesn't quite work that way though. I just piped up because people increasingly emphasise the role of wingers/CMs in covering flanks as if the fullbacks will just get beaten otherwise. It's like fullbacks aren't even there (why play them at all, I wonder?). Of course Brady won't just swan around without possession, but no I don't think he will track Armfield like a dog with a bone. The counter to that is the space Brady is in upon recovery, and no, it doesn't mean he will regularly have joy by taking advantage of the fullback being caought up, or that the fullback won't move forward in fear.

It's not about checkmate, it all means both sides will get their opportunities and the question is which one will better exploit them.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Since Barney is going down the wing route, I will quote my write up about my defenders again.

I'm up against good wingers, but my fullbacks would not be taking a back seat to anyone here. They were extremely competent in their prime and have played in legendary teams successfully. With a strong CB pairing and one of the best pure DM's in this draft, this is not a defence that would be easily breached. They are also a perfect fit in this set up. In addition to their defensive skills, they are also aggressive enough to provide width and support Brady/McManaman as needed.

Tommy Gemmell - The left back of the famed 'Lisbon Lions', he is an aggressive attacking full back he lacked nothing and took no prisoners. He became known not only for his stalwart defending but also for his charges forward and his thunderbolt strikes at goal. Referred to as the greatest Left Back in the world by none other than Jock Stein, he is one of only two British footballers to score in two different European Cup Finals. A specialist Penalty taker, who missed only 3 of 34 in his career, he has been voted into Celtic's Greatest Ever team.

Emlyn Hughes - First Liverpool captain to lift the European Cup. Legend has it that, on driving the 19-year-old down to Liverpool, Bill Shankly told a policeman: "Don't you know who is in this car? There sits the future captain of England." It turned true! Versatile enough to operate as Left back, Centre back or as a defensive midfielder, Crazy Horse can be depended upon to run through brick walls for his team.

Paul McGrath - widely recognised as one of the greatest players to have ever come out of Ireland. A natural and magnificent athlete with outstanding soccer talent, he is also a tough tackler and brilliant reader of the game. Called God by the Villa fans, he was voted player of the year 1993. He is also versatile to play in centre of defence or in midfield. If not for his alcoholism and problem with his knees, he would have gone on to be one of the greatest defenders globally of his generation. Ferguson said after the match "You have to wonder what a player McGrath should have been." He also commented that "Paul had similar problems to George Best [but] he was without doubt the most natural athlete in football you could imagine". True praise from a football legend who knows a thing or two about football talent.

George Cohen - WC'66 winner with England. Not flashy, yet crucial in providing width to teams without a specialist wide player, his workrate and stamina provided crucial and integral in England winning the WC. In a documentary on Channel 4 to find the greatest England XI, Cohen was given the right back spot by the public, ahead of Phil Neal and Gary Neville.

 

[Gio]

The most important issue is figuring out what Barney/Joga's white-and-yellow strips would look like. Like this perhaps?

 

[harms]

The most important issue is figuring out what Barney/Joga's white-and-yellow strips would look like. Like this perhaps?

Leeds, maybe?

 

[Joga Bonito]

This is really hard. I really liked some of Barney/Joga's picks along the way like O'Leary and that Scholes-Souness midfield. Really enjoyed reading the profiles on plaayers I knew little about...

But EAP's side really works for me. It's so cohesive and well balanced... I can imagine exactly how they would go about things and they would play some really beautiful football.

I suppose there will be much discussion on his midfield and whether it isn't too gung-ho. I would usually think that when it's a really random assortment but those four look and feel like a unit to me, would love to watch them in possession. Maybe they would struggle against other midfields, but not the one faced here.

I was expecting that from you esp from your flair comment in one of these threads. However, do you really think the balance of the midfield is spot onon

5) We also are sceptical about the balance of EAP's side. The likes of Brady, Gascoigne and McManaman are excellent creative ball players who are capable of the sublime. Even if one or two of his players have good work rate, it doesn't mask the serious lack of steel and defensive nous in that midfield.

As great as Stiles was, there is only so much one defensive midfielder can do. Unless, he plays Emlyn Hughes in midfield and Brown at the back which wouldn't be a smart move.

Ultimately we feel there are too many creative flair players and a lack of defensive players which creates a lack of balance, resulting in an absence of solidity as a whole.

They will be great to watch with possession but can that midfield hold its own defensively? The likes of McManaman and Brady have good work rate but does it make up for the lack of defensive nous and steel in there? Stiles is a holding midfielder and will have his hands full with the powerful and energetic Keenan. Can any one of those midfielders do anything about Souness's sheer power when they square up against him. Most midfield's struggle to keep track of Scholes and contain his sheer genius. What are Brady, McManaman and Gazza going to do? Run around him in circles like headless Bebe's whilst Scholes just dictates the match and keeps pinging his glorious balls?

The passing ability of the likes of Franklin, O'Leary, Scholes and Souness isn't going to help his cause at all in this regard.

EAP's team is eerily reminiscent to the successful diamond United lined up with earlier this season

I agree. Edgar will definitely hurt through the middle, whenever Souness pushes up Gascoigne will cause loads of damage in that space and his driving run and pace, together with Michael Owen makes for one heck of a counter attack. Sparky will provide the hold up and just one touch it to Owen or Gazza in full pace, it all looks very natural.

On the other side Souness forward runs will be up against one of the two best pure DM's in the draft in Nobby Stiles. For me the main question here is if McManaman and Liam Brady will keep Barnes and Liddell from having top performances out wide.

How does the managers plan on lining up defensively, what will be the role of each player.

Souness and Scholes are playing as a deep duo and Souness won't have the freedom to frequently make his hung ho runs. We figured EAP's diamond (what else can he play really?) and there was no point in asking our midfield pairing to make frequent runs forward (Souness occasionally). The firepower from Keegan and our wing duo are more than good enough to thrive on Scholes service with Souness beating it in the middle.

McManaman and Brady would struggle against our wingers if they square up against them out wide. Not only are they pacey and skilful, they are just too physical. Esp Liddell whom even defenders struggled against. Read my detailed write up on him if you can. Against most wingers I would figure McManaman and Brady to do a decent job. Not against Liddell and Barnes though.

 

[Joga Bonito]

With just Souness there, Gazza and Brady will just have far more joy than Barnes ever could. These two are so creative and with that lethal pair upfront, I don't see you stopping me from scoring at all.

You do know we have Scholes there... He was better defensively than any of your midfielders (except Stiles ofc) and more talented than any of them could ever hope to be . What's this? Even Barney agrees with me on that one

Another thing to note.

The Sat Nav's creativity from deep and his trademark 40 yard back-spinned pings will provide chance after chance for our dangerous wingers and they will leave his fullbacks isolated as they lack consistent cover.

They are great full backs no doubt but how long can they hold out with the 1 on 1s against great and complete wingers esp with that kind of service from Scholes? . Not many could in fairness esp without consistent cover unless Brady and McManaman are playing as wide midfielders constantly and leave Gazza and Stiles in the middle...

 

[Joga Bonito]

One not to be underrated

2) Kevin Keegan will prove to be a vital influence here. At his peak he finished runner up and won 2 Balon d'Or in 3 years. He was THE driving force for Liverpool and won 3 league trophies (runners-up twice) , 2 Uefa Cups, an European Cup and a FA cup (runners-up once) in his 6 year stay. Keegan then led minnows Hamburg to their first title in 19 years and in the next year led them to a second placed finish behind Bayern and an European Cup final. He was a big game player and has scored in countless finals.

He even had Berti Vogts (the same guy who marked Cruyff out of a WC final and dealt with the likes of Gerd Muller) tasked with man marking him in an European Cup final. This talisman will prove to be a pest in MJJ's team with his superb all-round game and incessant running.

Spoiler: Keegan Video

Just in case you forgot this wee bugger

Spoiler: Scholes Video

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I was expecting that from you esp from your flair comment in one of these threads. However, do you really think the balance of the midfield is spot onon

5) We also are sceptical about the balance of EAP's side. The likes of Brady, Gascoigne and McManaman are excellent creative ball players who are capable of the sublime. Even if one or two of his players have good work rate, it doesn't mask the serious lack of steel and defensive nous in that midfield.

As great as Stiles was, there is only so much one defensive midfielder can do. Unless, he plays Emlyn Hughes in midfield and Brown at the back which wouldn't be a smart move.

Ultimately we feel there are too many creative flair players and a lack of defensive players which creates a lack of balance, resulting in an absence of solidity as a whole.

They will be great to watch with possession but can that midfield hold its own defensively? The likes of McManaman and Brady have good work rate but does it make up for the lack of defensive nous and steel in there? Stiles is a holding midfielder and will have his hands full with the powerful and energetic Keenan. Can any one of those midfielders do anything about Souness's sheer power when they square up against him. Most midfield's struggle to keep track of Scholes and contain his sheer genius. What are Brady, McManaman and Gazza going to do? Run around him in circles like headless Bebe's whilst Scholes just dictates the match and keeps pinging his glorious balls?

The passing ability of the likes of Franklin, O'Leary, Scholes and Souness isn't going to help his cause at all in this regard.

EAP's team is eerily reminiscent to the successful diamond United lined up with earlier this season


Souness and Scholes are playing as a deep duo and Souness won't have the freedom to frequently make his hung ho runs. We figured EAP's diamond (what else can he play really?) and there was no point in asking our midfield pairing to make frequent runs forward (Souness occasionally). The firepower from Keegan and our wing duo are more than good enough to thrive on Scholes service with Souness beating it in the middle.

McManaman and Brady would struggle against our wingers if they square up against them out wide. Not only are they pacey and skilful, they are just too physical. Esp Liddell whom even defenders struggled against. Read my detailed write up on him if you can. Against most wingers I would figure McManaman and Brady to do a decent job. Not against Liddell and Barnes though.

There is nothing wrong with the balance. Both Brady & McManaman have operated in centre and wide midfield positions. Just because they are creative does not mean they lack steel. You won't find their workrate lacking or them shirking what needs to be done in the middle. Lack of defensive nous? It is a top notch back 4 with one of the best pure DM's in the draft screening. It is much better than yours, hands down. Why bring Brown in here? He was drafted with a specific alternate formation in mind and I'm not going to play that here.

Souness-Scholes reminds you off Keane-Scholes does it not? That midfield for all it's advantages was never able to dominate a match and so will it be here. It is a good pair, but if you are looking to dominate the middle, it falls short.

Not sure why you are pairing them off against each other. Brady/McM are not there to defend against your wingers. With Souness moving up, Gazza will have all the time in the world to wreck havoc. With Hughes playing behind Owen to hold up the ball and Gazza moving in, you don't have anything to stop me from scoring. At least I have Stiles dedicated to that job.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

My formation makes it much easier for me to retain possession. It also facilitates a quick counter through the middle, something you are definitely not suited to deal with.

When I gain possession and Brady linking with Gazza, there's absolutely nothing protecting your back 4 and it just becomes a 3vs2 in my favour. Goals galore!

 

[Balu]

He was a big game player and has scored in countless finals.

He was also a popstar in Germany:

 

[Joga Bonito]

There is nothing wrong with the balance. Both Brady & McManaman have operated in centre and wide midfield positions. Just because they are creative does not mean they lack steel. You won't find their workrate lacking or them shirking what needs to be done in the middle. Lack of defensive nous? It is a top notch back 4 with one of the best pure DM's in the draft screening. It is much better than yours, hands down. Why bring Brown in here? He was drafted with a specific alternate formation in mind and I'm not going to play that here.

I've pointed out a lack of defensive nous and steel in your midfield diamond except for Stiles obviously. Not questioning your defense at all. Just think your midfield diamond lacks balance.

Souness-Scholes reminds you off Keane-Scholes does it not? That midfield for all it's advantages was never able to dominate a match and so will it be here. It is a good pair, but if you are looking to dominate the middle, it falls short.

Not sure why you are pairing them off against each other. Brady/McM are not there to defend against your wingers. With Souness moving up, Gazza will have all the time in the world to wreck havoc. With Hughes playing behind Owen to hold up the ball and Gazza moving in, you don't have anything to stop me from scoring. At least I have Stiles dedicated to that job.

Aye, there were games when Butt was brought in for this reason but that isnt how we are utilising Scholesy and Souness here at all.

They are playing deeper with Scholes dictating play from deep and Souness beasting it in the middle and has his underrated passing and skills on the ball to excel in a deeper role. He will make runs occasionally but is clearly not functioning as a box to box, neither is Scholes. So i don't see where Gazza will get the space to make this runs.

That deep midfield duo more than capable of domimating any midfield imo. You might point to us not utilizing our midfield duo fully (yes, we are not utilizing them fully but utilizing them as per what this match requires) but this is where Keegan comes in. He is one of the best in the draft for this job description.

He'll be in the thick of it, be it dropping deep, aggressivly pressing and driving forcefully forward with his pace, trickery and verve or finishing off a move aplomb himself. The perfect player (who combines skill with drive and industry) to play ahead of that midfield duo and in linking midfield with attack.

 

[Joga Bonito]

My formation makes it much easier for me to retain possession. It also facilitates a quick counter through the middle, something you are definitely not suited to deal with.

When I gain possession and Brady linking with Gazza, there's absolutely nothing protecting your back 4 and it just becomes a 3vs2 in my favour. Goals galore!

Firstly, my team is equally capable of retaining possession with two ball playing centre backs (advise you to read up on their write ups), a great passer in Souness and the best passer on the pitch. However, I will agree that the diamond makes it easier to retain possession but my question is whether your midfield trio can keep up with my midfield duo when without possession?

Secondly you make my midfield duo out to be a gung ho and irrational attacking duo which is off on silly David Luiz like runs. Only Souness will be making runs occasionally and not frequently like he used to. That isn't the case, I'm playing them both deeper like our write up mentioned.

In front of our defence and at the heart of our team we have two of the greatest British midfielders of all time. In Graeme Souness and Paul Scholes we have a brilliant combination of steel, guile and creativity. Souness was one of Liverpool's three greatest players in an era where they dominated English football. Souness will be asked to play a slightly more defensive game in order to ensure that we are not found defensively lacking. While he will be tasked with playing a deeper role, he will occasionally be allowed to drive the entire team forward as well as get on the ball in order to utilise his wonderful passing range and creative assets.

In tandem with Souness, Paul Scholes will be playing a deeper playmaking role. Scholes found a lot of success playing this role for Manchester United. The Ginger Prince will dictate the tempo of the game with his supreme spatial awareness and frankly absurd passing range. The Sat Nav's creativity from deep and his trademark 40 yard back-spinned pings will provide chance after chance for our dangerous wingers and they will leave his fullbacks isolated as they lack consistent cover.

@Balu
Any interesting anecdotes on Keegan during his stay at Germany.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

That deep midfield duo more than capable of domimating any midfield imo. You might point to us not utilizing our midfield duo fully (yes, we are not but we are utilizing them fully but as per what this match requires) but this is where Keegan comes in. He is one of the best in the draft for this job description.

You are trying to paint a 4-2-3-1 here which is not what you are playing, right? The role you mention is what the older version of Scholes played. Even in deeper role, he usually had Carrick to cover for him and here you definitely need Souness to cover for his lack of pace. Not playing to Souness strength's at all. I really don't think there will be any 'beasting' going on here.

Firstly, my team is equally capable of retaining possession with two ball playing centre backs (advise you to read up on their write ups), a great passer in Souness and the best passer on the pitch. However, I will agree that the diamond makes it easier to retain possession but my question is whether your midfield trio can keep up with my midfield duo when without possession?

Secondly you make my midfield duo out to be a gung ho and irrational attacking duo which is off on silly David Luiz like runs. Only Souness will be making runs occasionally and not frequently like he used to. That isn't the case, I'm playing them both deeper like our write up mentioned.

The way you are set up does not facilitate possession at all. Scholes pinging his passes and Barnes/Liddel running at my back 4. It's a direct route and I don't see possession play happening here. On the other hand, the interplay between my midfielders would make sure we hog most of the ball time. Neither Scholes nor Souness are defensive pivots would not be able to match the passing game when I have the ball.

As great as Stiles was, there is only so much one defensive midfielder can do.

From a purely defensive screening point of view, Stiles can do so much more than either of your deep duo. And I really don't think the gap between your wingers and my fullbacks is as big as you make it out to be. As a defensive unit my team can stand up to your wingers.

 

[Joga Bonito]

You are trying to paint a 4-2-3-1 here which is not what you are playing, right? The role you mention is what the older version of Scholes played. Even in deeper role, he usually had Carrick to cover for him and here you definitely need Souness to cover for his lack of pace. Not playing to Souness strength's at all. I really don't think there will be any 'beasting' going on here.

Keegan plays as a second striker but he was more of a hybrid between an attacking midfielder and a SS. He initially started his career as a midfielder and is a work horse who loved to drop back and get in the thick of things. He was more of a driving kind rather than a final third hogger.

It would be suicidal to let Scholes and Souness play in an attacking box to box role esp against a diamond. We aren't utilizing their goalscoring ability and their driving runs forward but we have a great attack and a link man in Keegan which allows them to play their specialized roles.

Souness is more than capable of beasting it it in midfield and is one of the best midfielder in this draft. We are losing a bit of his driving runs but we gain so much through his dedicated defensive duties. Esp when he faces Gazza, Brady and McM around him. None who are great defensively and can match up with him or Scholes's intelligence.

The way you are set up does not facilitate possession at all. Scholes pinging his passes and Barnes/Liddel running at my back 4. I

Once again this is where Keegan comes in. His ability to drop deep and create triangles. He is an extremely proactive player who is vital to our plans. He is curiously being overlooked here by many.

 

[Barney]

Are Joga and I both allowed to put arguments forward or can only one of us do so?

 

[crappycraperson]

Are Joga and I both allowed to put arguments forward or can only one of us do so?

Only one.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Keegan plays as a second striker but he was more of a hybrid between an attacking midfielder and a SS. He initially started his career as a midfielder and is a work horse who loved to drop back and get in the thick of things. He was more of a driving kind rather than a final third hogger.

It would be suicidal to let Scholes and Souness play in an attacking box to box role esp against a diamond. We aren't utilizing their goalscoring ability and their driving runs forward but we have a great attack and a link man in Keegan which allows them to play their specialized roles.

Souness is more than capable of beasting it it in midfield and is one of the best midfielder in this draft. We are losing a bit of his driving runs but we gain so much through his dedicated defensive duties. Esp when he faces Gazza, Brady and McM around him. None who are great defensively and can match up with him or Scholes's intelligence.

Once again this is where Keegan comes in. His ability to drop deep and create triangles. He is an extremely proactive player who is vital to our plans. He is curiously being overlooked here by many.

The way I see it, to play possession game, you need BOTH Keegan to drop deep and Souness to move up effectively create a bridge in the middle. It is a double edged sword, as it blunts your attack and opens space in front of your defence.

 

[Theon]

Surprised at the score. I really like Barney's/Joga's side.

Wouldn't mind hearing more on Keegan's time in Germany when he won the Ballon d'Or twice - Football wasn't going through it's best period but that is still some achievement.

Multiple Ballon d'Or winners - Cruyff, Platini, Beckenbauer, Van Basten, Rummenigge, Ronaldo, Di Stefano.. And Keegan. Not a bad list to be in.

 

[Joga Bonito]

The way I see it, to play possession game, you need BOTH Keegan to drop deep and Souness to move up effectively create a bridge in the middle. It is a double edged sword, as it blunts your attack and opens space in front of your defence.

I only said we have the personnel to mix it up and aren't restricted to being only direct with Scholes to wingers being our sole out ball. We are neither exclusively playing direct nor possession football but going for a fine blend of both but slightly veering towards direct.

Keegan will be absolutely essential as such.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Surprised at the score. I really like Barney's/Joga's side.

Wouldn't mind hearing more on Keegan's time in Germany when he won the Ballon d'Or twice - Football wasn't going through it's best period but that is still some achievement.

Multiple Ballon d'Or winners - Cruyff, Platini, Beckenbauer, Van Basten, Rummenigge, Ronaldo, Di Stefano.. And Keegan. Not a bad list to be in.

He also finished runners up to Simonsen before winning 2 on the trot. Can you imagine him being up there with the likes of Messi and Platini if he had won 3 consecutively . Lack of international success cost him some plaudits and tbf England were rather poor at that time. A shame that he was past his peak and suffering from back injury in 82 and missed that header...

Leaving his Hamburg performances aside, he was integral to Liverpool as well and was runners up for the Balon d'Or there. He was the best player of that immensely successful Liverpool side.

Kevin Keegan will prove to be a vital influence here. At his peak he finished runner up and won 2 Balon d'Or in 3 years. He was THE driving force for Liverpool and won 3 league trophies (runners-up twice) , 2 Uefa Cups, an European Cup and a FA cup (runners-up once) in his 6 year stay. Keegan then led minnows Hamburg to their first title in 19 years and in the next year led them to a second placed finish behind Bayern and an European Cup final. He was a big game player and has scored in countless finals.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

+ Souness/Scholes being played here has little parallels to Keane/Scholes that instantly springs to mind. The version of Scholes played is from his later years as a deep lying CM. The younger Scholes had a effective partnership with Keane, but older Scholes was best with a foil like Carrick who plays a supporting role to Scholes mastero. Souness is not that type of player. What we have is a mix'n'match between both Scholes and their partnerships and it not being about the best of either. A very unbalanced partnership if you drill past the face into the actual strategy employed here.

+ Brady, McM and Gazza are are individually capable of the sublime and can turn a match with a pass, lob or volley. The passing game between these will definitely prove to be a advantage against a unbalanced midfield as I mention in above point. If Gazza moves forward the either McM or Brady can step into the middle and dictate play. Or they can drift out wide with Gazza routing plays through the middle. Hughes holding up the ball with Gazza and Owen moving is is just a definitive goal

+ Personally I think Keegan is best as pure SS probably in a free role behind. As a hybrid AM/SS he has extra play making duties in a possession game takes away the lethality of this attack. The big point being, this role puts him in the same space as Stiles. Definitely will not be a game that we'll see the best of Keegan. As Joga mentions, Souness will only be moving forward rarely, so the man who marked out Eusebio should be able to throw a spanner in opponents works. Though Stiles is not man marking him here, the duality of the Keegan's role should dilute his lethality up front greatly. Either he stay on top for the kill or drops deep to link, can't do both at the same time.

+ I still believe that I will have bulk of possession as my team has all players in their most effective positions. Unlike my opposition who graft player strengths (Souness/Keegan) to sit in to the strategy mine has less grafting and let's them do what they do best.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Souness/Scholes being played here has little parallels to Keane/Scholes that instantly springs to mind. The version of Scholes played is from his later years as a deep lying CM. The younger Scholes had a effective partnership with Keane, but older Scholes was best with a foil like Carrick who plays a supporting role to Scholes mastero. Souness is not that type of player.

It is the damned if you do or damned if you don't scenario... When you perceived us playing Scholes-Souness duo as box to box, it was they are too gung ho and won't offer cover defensively. Now that you realise we are playing them deeper it obviously won't work as well .

Why can't Souness support Scholes? He was first and foremost a defensive collosus and then a talented box to box. The contrary applies to say someone like Gerrard. I don't get how he's not able to play a more disciplined defensive role. Its like saying Matthaus won't be able to support a midfield playmaker from a more disciplined position as it isnt his game...

He would be an even more capable support to Scholes than Carrick was. He was a great passer and added physicality which Carrick could never do. You still haven't mentioned how Gascoigne, Brady and McM are even going to win the ball off my midfield duo. Even the most defensive mids could struggle in this regard but I'm struggling to see how those 3 ever could?

Personally I think Keegan is best as pure SS probably in a free role behind. As a hybrid AM/SS he has extra play making duties in a possession game takes away the lethality of this attack. The big point being, this role puts him in the same space as Stiles. Definitely will not be a game that we'll see the best of Keegan. As Joga mentions, Souness will only be moving forward rarely, so the man who marked out Eusebio should be able to throw a spanner in opponents works. Though Stiles is not man marking him here, the duality of the Keegan's role should dilute his lethality up front greatly.

He never played as a pure SS and that was never his style. He always played in a free role and loved to drop behind and get involved as much as he could. A real buzzing and a proactive player.

Let's not forget Keegan (2 time balon d'Or winner) had Vogts, the guy who shat on Cruyff and Muller, man marking him and ultimately won the battle winning 3-1 in an European Cup final, winning the penalty off him after a 30 yard mazy run. Vogts went on to shake hands and congratulate Keegan after the match. Tbf Vogts did a good job and was at the end of his career but was still a brilliant defender who i rate very highly.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Very tricky, this one. Nothing glaringly wrong with either side.

I agree with much of what Edgar has touched on here regarding Scholes - whose various incarnations as a player over the years (from deep lying striker to deep lying playmaker) are more specialized/compartmentalized than those who use him in these drafts like to acknowledge: In short, you can't have your cake and eat it with Scholes.

That said, I think he would work well here: As I see it, he'll be given enough time on the ball a little too frequently for him not to cause considerable damage with his long range passing, setting up Liddell and Barnes - and THAT is where Barney/Joga has the clearest edge in this match.

I've never been all that impressed by Keegan - but Barnes is another story. For my money this will be Barnes' match - he'll shine here, I reckon, and that will be what tips the scales.

 

[Lynk]

McGrory has a 1 in 1 ratio. Scholes and Souness is the perfect midfield duo. Barnes, Keegan very decent buys. Barney gets my vote.