I'm not saying we will sign him for sure, but I don't think he'll refuse to come here simply because he had a grudge with Ferguson and Gill.
Paul Pogba
- Thread starter dhstriker
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People talk of price but the reality is that he will leave Juventus for no more than £40 million. That's a massive fee for a central midfielder, more or less unheard of.
Talk of £50 million plus is exaggerated. Juventus aren't getting that and no club in the right mind is going to play it. Not even Madrid.
Pogba screams Galactico but if he is to leave then we stand as good a chance as any other provided we make Europe. The transfer fee won't be an issue unless Juventus dig in hard. In recent years no Serie A side has done that, so one suspects he'll go for the right price.
Talk of £50 million plus is exaggerated. Juventus aren't getting that and no club in the right mind is going to play it. Not even Madrid.
Pogba screams Galactico but if he is to leave then we stand as good a chance as any other provided we make Europe. The transfer fee won't be an issue unless Juventus dig in hard. In recent years no Serie A side has done that, so one suspects he'll go for the right price.
You forget Madrid just paid around £60m for James (who?) to stick him in midfield.
I don't get this assumption that because Pogba's tall and Modric is tiny, people naturally assume Pogba is the better one defensively. Modric's become close to the perfect central midfielder specifically because he's become so good at stopping the opposition when they have the ball. It's the reason Real Madrid are able to play 2 in midfield so effectively even against big teams; despite it looking madness on paper.
He hardly ever gives away fouls or lets anyone dribble past or round him. He doesn't dive in or look to win the ball, it's all about slowing the break down and then if he can, and he often does, sticking a foot in. It stops the momentum of the counter attack either way and that's all that's needed to let Marcelo and Carvajal drop back if they've burst forward.
Tackling (since summer 2013)
- Modric 56%
- Kroos 48%
- Pogba 41%
Everyone knows, Modric and Kroos are pretty close to perfect passers, while Pogba's a little looser in that area. You're buying him to play in central midfield remember, not as an attacker, with more license to take chances. You want upper 80s passing from a playmaking controlling midfielder. Kroos and Modric are just that bit more special.
Passing (since summer 2013)
- Kroos 92%
- Modric 90%
- Pogba 83%
Pogba's final ball still lacks severely. For a guy who gets himself high up the field and takes chances with his passing, he doesn't actually create that much for others. Even though you'd think he would, given he draws defenders to him and presumably frees them up from other areas of the pitch he might pass into.
Chances created every 10 games (since summer 2013)
- Kroos 20
- Pogba 15
- Modric 14
He's a much better finisher than the other two, which is the only major advantage he has at the moment as well as youth and physicality.
Shots on target (since summer 2013)
- Pogba 41%
- Kroos 25%
- Modric 23%
Love watching them (the other two more than Kroos really, as he's a bit more traditional), but Modric and Kroos are way better passers and defenders at the moment. Can't let 7 or 8 goals a season from midfield and looking physical distract from that.
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It's clear that under the new command of woodward were a different animal in the transfer market and more than willing to spend big for top players, but with pogba you have to wonder whether he would want to join us given were not exactly up there with the best sides in Europe. And he'd have all the best clubs seeking his signature. So that's one factor. And secondly, we do have investing to do in defence, so that's also a factor is spunking a lot of our load on one player. But it isn't impossible. No one of us can say it is given our trasnfers activity of late. But from the players perspective it seems unlikely to me. If I didn't care for United, in his shoes Id pick other clubs over us.
V Evra too. One can dream
On the otherhand providing we get CL for next season any success next season would be directly put down to him and the difference he made to our club. Not something he will hear if he goes to Bayern Madrid or Chelsea who without him are doing just great! He'll also get
top money with us more than anywhere else I expect. If he comes to the PL its a no brainer on many levels I think us having to fork out 80m on him will in his mind be a big justification of his wanting to leave in the first place for first team football.
Put him up against pogba and he will.
And pogba's probably been the best midfielder on the planet this season.
We have a very good chance of signing him. We signed Veron when he was the best midfielder in the world, and we did the same with Di Maria.
He's not a central midfielder, he's an attacker of sorts. These players go for astronomical sums, your Bale's, Di Maria's and Suarez', but central midfielders have yet to break the fourty barrier. Plus James' price was inflated in part due to his exploits at the World Cup.
Sadly those stats just simply don't pass the eye test. Put an opposition midfielder facing either pogba, kroos or modric and he's more likely to get past the kroos and modric than Pogba. Hence Pogba was making taking the ball from the spanish midfielders look rather easy in the france-spain friendly. Just watch him week in week out, he just continuously shoves players out of the way to take the ball. While they find it impossible to do the same to him. Yes, those two have him on passing but that's just about it.
His size and strength makes him unique. Kroos isn't even in this conversation considering the disdain that atletico midfielders generally treat him with. As much as modric has a great work rate it just doesn't compensate for the power factor that Pogba puts on the table. He's no slouch either and generally covers the spaces his meant to really well in the juve formation.
Madrid hardly ever play 2 in midfield so I don't really know what you're on about there. Their stock formation is a 4-3-3. They tried the 4-2-3-1 formation when the season started and duly scrapped it.
Oddly enough, the players you have been buying have changed a lot. Instead of Toures, Silvas, Agueros, etc. you've been buying players from a tier or few below. It has been a while since you have bought a truly top tier player, whilst Chelsea, United, Arsenal have.
It is definitely a change of tact, though it is probably down to the fact that you do not need to buy that calibre of players every year now as your team is much more complete now than when Mansour came in. Perhaps a case of adding/complementing than anything else. This summer will be an interesting insight into City transfer tactics for the next few years.
Completely agreed his price was completely inflated but it doesn't matter what his position is (attacking mid?), Madrid already showed they'll spend ridiculous amounts on any player. Last year they paid 40m€ for untested Illarramendi, and most likely will be sent away at the end of the season.
Just a typical bitter dipper!
That's simply not true. Pogba sticks a foot in more hastily than Modric, but it's his early over-committal to the tackle and direct approach that catches him out way more too. Modric doesn't let people past (just watch Real Madrid), they either get funneled to a wing or forced back, or at the very least slowed down. That's his job and he does it brilliantly and completely without flash.
You assume that long-leggedness and strength are what make a defensive midfielder, when it's really positioning and awareness. That's the reason Daley Blind is a better defensive midfielder than Dickson Etuhu. Modric doesn't make a tackle unless he knows he's getting the ball; Pogba takes more chances and for that reason gets caught out more and gives away miles more silly free kicks in dangerous positions.
Again "shoving players out of the way" isn't the sole mark of a great central midfielder. Nor is using one friendly match, just because it's against a team that won the World Cup. Over two years, Modric has got beaten in midfield way less while making as many tackles. He wins as much of the ball, but taking less risks and getting punished less doing it, in a 2 man midfield.
Pogba's style without the ball is comparable to Jones or Herrera (taking chances, shoving his shoulder in and not holding back); Modric's to Blind (funneling, timing the tackle and slowing the break, without fuss).
Kroos has greater final ball than Pogba, almost never gives the ball away and defends considerably better. To say he isn't in the conversation because of a bad game against Atletico is ridiculous. Especially when he's stood the test of Champions League and World Cup finals, as opposed to Serie A league games.
Once again, there are tonnes of great hard work midfielders who can't position themselves. Modric does both, which is why he's genuinely a great central midfielder without the ball as well as with it. It doesn't matter that he's small; Claude Makelele was 5 foot 7 and looked like Ossie Ardiles could blow him over sneezing. It's about positioning and Modric learned how to do it very well.
Pogba's puts himself out of position and takes chances to win the ball. Modric keeps the gaps plugged and stays in control, to win the ball. Hence Pogba wins 40% of the ball and the rest finds himself wrong side or conceding a free kick in a difficult position. While Modric wins 55% of the ball and lessens the pressure on every other player around him.
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You must not watch Juve if you believe some of the stuff you've written. Believing that Pogba runs about throwing his leg in like hererra or jones couldn't be further from the truth. The fact remains under a direct attacker from an opposition player pogba is far more likely to get the ball than Modric. In 50-50 situations Pogba is more likely to come on top.
Now let's be honest here, Modric works hard and is not some lazy play making midfielder who sits and watches the action go by. His defensive work is not poor by anyone's standards, its just the simple fact that Pogba does things in a midfield he can't do. It really is that simple.
Pogba in fact, probably relies on his positioning more than most cause he doesn't have the work rate to consistently chase around people. He's no Vidal or marchiso for example. He protects that left channel at juve with ridiculous ease. I've barely seen him exposed throughout the season yet you talk about him on the other side of opposition players. He's immense help to evra and essentially negates any 2 v 1 action that could take place there. There's a reason that despite pirlo's lack of a defensive game Juve hardly concede goals.
Kroos isn't part of this conversation because he's hopeless without space. Doesn't have the touch or footwork to get out of difficult situations. Has no vertical game, can't drive the ball and is defensively suspect. He's been dire in all Atletico matches this season, not just one. Valencia also took a liking to the type of midfielder he is. IMO no player with such holes in his game should be in such a conversation.
All that stuff you talk about is the stuff pogba does. For some reason you think he's a guts and thunder player while defending, he just isn't. The only hole in his defensive game would be his reading of play. He's not all that great at reading the lose ball or intercepting the action(ala vidal, Gundogan or parker) but neither his Modric in all honesty.
Its not all about his size, its about how the body is used. For example Coquelin in the past 4 games has proven that he's got all the boxed ticked despite being tiny. The thing is its a huge advantage for a Pogba if he defends intelligently, uses the body correctly and his strength. That's where he has the advantage over the smaller lads like modric is. He bullies them off the ball with ridiculous ease. That generally means in a 50-50 in midfield he'll generally come out on top. Martinez is the midfielder with the best defensive game going around. His size, strength, reading of play, intelligence in the duel make's it rather easy for him. If you don't see how a Martinez's size and strength is part of the advantage then we'll end the conversation here. Please don't mention a blind in this conversation, he's a nothing player defensively.
When it comes to intellegence and the ability to dictate a game I don't think Pogba comes close to Modric. Most people probably think that he is stronger too, just because he is that box to box-high energy type, which every PL fan loves, but Modric is underrated here too. Pogba still hasn't performed in the Top3 leagues and hasn't played a integral part in a CL-winning side. A lot of users here don't rate players high because of the weak Serie A, but it doesn't matter when Pogba plays in a free role at the best side (by a mile) in a weak league. I have no doubt that Pogba will be a great player, I just don't think he should be called the best midfielder right now, just too early for me, I am not even sure he is the best young midfielder out there, because I rate Verratti as much as him.
I'd pass in Modric. No more Madrid cast-offs thanks.
Obviously you are more clued into how City are coping with FFP more than me. In saying that will getting rid of Nastasic, Sinclair and Jovetic really allow ye to sign Pogba? Either way there is no doubting that thanks to FFP meeting the valuation of Pogba will be much less of an issue for us than for ye.
Are you suggesting that he will struggle for games in our midfield?
Nah, he wouldnt. Modrić is a better player. But it seems you already have a nice conversation about it with luckyspurs.
There's going to be mass suicide on here when he signs for a club that is not us over the summer
I also rate Verratti extremely high, honestly think he's with Modric and Pogba as the three best midfielders currently. Pogba in all honestly isn't a high energy player. For example, Vidal after surgery exerts more energy in games than he does and so does marchiso.
Whether pogba can dictate games remains to be seen. He doesn't play that role in the juve system so deeming him infererior as a player because of that is just wrong. Scholes dictated games for us after he lost his legs, but the box to box scholes imo was a better player than the game dictator.
I don't think modric is underrated anymore. He used to be in his spurs days, but since last season I think every sane football fan agrees that he's up there with the very best midfielders going.
Your point about Pogba not playing a crucial role in a CL winning team is just flat out rubbish imo. Modric hadn't done that before last season, could you not see before that that he was absolute class? Serie A might be weak, but its not weak to an extent that an average player would look so bloody good and be anything but a great player. Plus in the CL, he's already got a some great performances vs some really big sides(a nigh on man of the match performance vs atletico this season). He's also impressed on the international stage.
If signed, I could see Pogba going a ways toward building a United midfield that imposes itself and dictates games.
Assuming we get CL, and that we have a mega bid accepted for Pogba, I think its fair to say that he will be looking at us as a team that is on the up and will be one of the top sides in Europe next year.
I am of the belief that Man United as NEVER been more attractive to players than it is now. Simply because for the last ten years we have NOT paid market rate wages. Consistently, we lost out on players because other teams offered more money. That is no longer our attitude. We look willing to match and beat other clubs with player remuneration. That is the by far number 1 factor in signing a player.
We have a very good chance of signing him, should we be after him.
This.
He could, especially because he's such a unique talent. No other midfielder in world football has his combination of size and technical ability. His game is somewhat Zidanesque and we all know the damage he caused throughout the years in the middle of the park. Push the boat out, get him on the books and sort out other positions i'd say.
for free...we let him walk for free
Have to get over the losing him for free thing. What's done is done. If we want him to play for us again, we'll have to splash big bucks on him. I can't see another midfielder in the world that ticks every box for us in the way he does. I think he'd love to come back to Old Trafford with his head held high. He only ever talks well about the club and frankly I can understand why he left in the first place. Let's face it, he's been vindicated in his decision. Went straight into Juve's first team.
We fecked up. A big mistake but you can't win them all. There's no way to predict that if he had signed a new contract here that he would've developed the way he has at Juve or been given the chances to. It's all hypothetical. I would pay big money to bring him back. He's going to be a top 3 midfielder in the world for the next 7-10 years in all likelihood. I'd pay 50m, suck up the humble pie and win a shit load of trophies. What's the alternative? Watch him go to a European or domestic rival and really rub it in our faces? No thanks.
He's exactly what we need.
We fecked up. A big mistake but you can't win them all. There's no way to predict that if he had signed a new contract here that he would've developed the way he has at Juve or been given the chances to. It's all hypothetical. I would pay big money to bring him back. He's going to be a top 3 midfielder in the world for the next 7-10 years in all likelihood. I'd pay 50m, suck up the humble pie and win a shit load of trophies. What's the alternative? Watch him go to a European or domestic rival and really rub it in our faces? No thanks.
He's exactly what we need.
This post basically sums it up for me.
If he leaves, the only club is Chelsea. No worries..
You're right, your spending power is obviously much superior to ours. And we have wage restrictions, although they seem very superficial as they do not take into account bonuses, so Nasri for example had a pay-cut in his new contract, but you can guarantee he is taking home more money each week, yet it gives us more breathing space for future signings.
Nevertheless, I'm very confident City will be able to afford Pogba. The main issue is always wages, as I've said, and Jovetic, Nastasic and Sinclair would easily cover what Pogba would be earning. We still possess decent spending power and if we were capable of splashing £42m on Mangala in a season with FFP restrictions and with a lower forecast revenue than next year I'm sure signing Pogba for circa. £50-70m is not going to be a huge problem. It would limit us regards other signings but a high-quality CM is arguably what we need the most given the age of our current midfield partnership. Plus, City have a good relationship with Pogba's agent Raiola.
He cost that much?! Is that including wages?
Ya he is definitely a player ye could do with (although not to the extent we do considering the state of our midfield). Toure is in his thirties and Fernando and Fernandinho are in their mid-late twenties. Like us I assume ye are interested. From our point of view I hope that FFP does hinder ye in some shape or form and that Pogba's fondness for us (judging by his interviews at least) sways it in our favour.
Raiola may have a say but at the end of the day it's Pogba's decision so I don't think he will have that much of an influence.
Raiola always has a huge influence
Pogba isn't a child though. If Pogba says that he want's to join us (or any other club for that matter) and Raiola says otherwise do you think that Pogba will just go along with whatever Raiola wants? An agents job is to advise their client and sort a move for the them will the player wants to move. They can't tell the player what to do.
I really think that people overestimate the influence agents have on their players. People were getting worried in the De Gea thread at one stage that Mendes would refuse to negotiate with us over his extension if we didn't take up our option to buy Falcao!
Footballers are human beings. They are well capable of thinking for themselves.Pogba's toyed around with all kinds of opposition. Did you watch him versus Real Madrid last year and Atlético Madrid this year?
You would find it very hard to find many in Italy who rate Verratti as much as Pogba.
Verratti went directly from Serie B to Ligue 1, two leagues that are weaker than the Serie A. He hasn't been able to break into Italy's starting XI on a consistent basis, simply because he's not as well-rounded as Pirlo, De Rossi and Marchisio are.
Pogba, however, is now ahead of Pirlo, Marchisio and Vidal in Juventus' midfield pecking order. Verratti's talented, but if Juve were to use the money from the sale of Pogba money on just Verratti, or even Modric, we would probably be a weaker team. Pogba's that incredible.
They're different kinds of midfielders, though. Verratti is far more of a deep lying-playmaker whilst Pogba is an all action offensive midfielder.
That's true, a comparison isn't really necessary. They could co-exist in midfield.
They've both been deployed all over central midfield, however. Pogba's comfortable in a holding position, although it limits him. Verratti's been used in more attacking positions as well, although he's best in a deep position.
Pogba's a match winner, though, and he has no real weaknesses. He scores, assists and defends at a high level.
I'm going to give you a scenario, two clubs talk to an agent and give him the same offer, only one of them pays the agent more, he can make that offer seem more attractive to the client and get that club to raise the offer, before giving the other club a chance to be thought about as much... Hypothetical and simplified, but I've read a lot about Ibra when he was younger and he was majorly influenced and yet you'd never think someone like him would have been...Pogba isn't a child though. If Pogba says that he want's to join us (or any other club for that matter) and Raiola says otherwise do you think that Pogba will just go along with whatever Raiola wants? An agents job is to advise their client and sort a move for the them will the player wants to move. They can't tell the player what to do.
I really think that people overestimate the influence agents have on their players. People were getting worried in the De Gea thread at one stage that Mendes would refuse to negotiate with us over his extension if we didn't take up our option to buy Falcao!
Wasn't in Robinho who thought he'd signed for Utd rather than city?
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